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Buying a house with outstanding charges

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  • 23-11-2015 6:50pm
    #1
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭


    We are half way through buying a house, there have been quite a few issues raised by our solicitor, he is being very cautious with it but the seller has been able to clear everything.

    There is however (we were are aware of it from the very beginning) an outstanding charge payable to the council for water connection.
    We are on the limit as to how much we can borrow so it cannot be settled before we buy the house(the house has past thru 2 other owners and they havnt paid this connection fee either)

    How do banks normally view these things, will it be seen as a small bump on the road or could it stop us in our tracks


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    #2
    jeamimus
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jeamimus


    Charge relates from three owners ago? How many years ago? I would wonder if it is even collectable now.


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    #3
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    jeamimus wrote: »
    Charge relates from three owners ago? How many years ago? I would wonder if it is even collectable now.

    2007 was when it was built, well when it started anyway, there have been issues with the builders of the estate going out of business a few times


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    #4
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Presumably the vendors solicitor will undertake to discharge it from the proceeds of the sale. But your solicitor will advise.


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    #5
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    hairyslug wrote: »
    We are on the limit as to how much we can borrow so it cannot be settled before we buy the house(the house has past thru 2 other owners and they havnt paid this connection fee either)

    How do banks normally view these things, will it be seen as a small bump on the road or could it stop us in our tracks

    Depends on the bank but I'd say for the majority it's a deal breaker.


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    #6
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Depends on the bank but I'd say for the majority it's a deal breaker.

    Is there a time limit as to when the council can chase this, a quick Google showed that they can chase a debt for 6 years for unpaid rates, would this fall into this category.


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    #7
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    hairyslug wrote: »
    Is there a time limit as to when the council can chase this, a quick Google showed that they can chase a debt for 6 years for unpaid rates, would this fall into this category.

    I'm afraid that's one for the solicitor. Sorry I know how head wrecking it is!


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    #8
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    I'm afraid that's one for the solicitor. Sorry I know how head wrecking it is!

    Cheers, better to be getting a right answer an not a false promise


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    #9
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    hairyslug wrote: »
    Cheers, better to be getting a right answer an not a false promise

    Sorry, I missed Johnny's point between posts which is a clear and acceptable solution. I hope I did not cause a restless night.


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    #10
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    The contract that has been sent onto us from the seller says that there "seems to be an outstanding contribution charge" and that the new owners will take that on as well.

    I've mailed the planning dept. just to see if it is on their file and hopefully they will have forgotten about it.


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    #11
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    hairyslug wrote: »
    The contract that has been sent onto us from the seller says that there "seems to be an outstanding contribution charge" and that the new owners will take that on as well.

    I've mailed the planning dept. just to see if it is on their file and hopefully they will have forgotten about it.

    Best to remind them so!

    The sellers can settle the charge with the proceeds of the sale. what's the issue?


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    #12
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    godtabh wrote: »
    Best to remind them so!

    The sellers can settle the charge with the proceeds of the sale. what's the issue?

    They hadn't forgotten about it sadly, seller doesn't want to part with 10k out of the sale, wants it passed onto us.

    Strange thing is there are 17 houses of this stage where the contribution wasn't paid at time of build, so either people have paid as they bought or there is a lot of unpaid rates


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    #13
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    hairyslug wrote: »
    They hadn't forgotten about it sadly, seller doesn't want to part with 10k out of the sale, wants it passed onto us.

    Strange thing is there are 17 houses of this stage where the contribution wasn't paid at time of build, so either people have paid as they bought or there is a lot of unpaid rates

    Lower your offer by €10k


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    #14
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    We have mooted that, was a nonrunner, we are in the hands of the banks now so see if they will accept it as part of the deal


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    #15
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    If you knew about it when you made the offer and they accepted it, if it only came up after you made the offer then you should have insisted that they pay it or lowered your offer by 10K. Right now I'd see if you both could find 5k or walk.


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    #16
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    How much do you want the house? Were there other bidders in the mix for it?

    Bit cheeky of the owners not to mention it in advance & to refuse to take any responsibility for the costs.


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    #17
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    It was mentioned to us when we made the offer.

    Tbh, we didn't think that it would have been brought to the attention of the banks, we would happily pay it further down the line but at the moment it's just not a possibility.


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    #18
    Butters1979
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    It was brought to the attention of the banks as you are buying debt, while trying to draw down a mortgage. It should be paid off by the current owners before the house is sold.
    The whole thing sounds dodgy to me and it looks like you can't incur the costs. I would, through the solicitor, insist it is paid by the vendor, or walk away. Although if this was brought to your attention before bidding, this won't go down well with the vendors now.
    But if you really want the house that's hard to do. You might be stuck here.


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    #19
    HelgaWard
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭HelgaWard


    I'd be getting on to the council (or asking your solicitor to do same) to find out exactly what the outstanding charge is for. A water connection does not cost €10,000. I think it is more likely development levies for water services, which are normally paid by the developer not individual house owners. See this link for something that might relate http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=676434

    Anyway the only way you are going to find out is by contacting the council and asking for clarification.

    But really this is an issue for the sellers to sort out.


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    #20
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    Sorry, can't multi quote

    We have no issue paying the charge, we accept that the debt will be passed onto us, just we can't afford to pay for it straight away. The house has gone thru 3 sets of hands with this charge still outstanding.

    Sorry, it's a planning contribution that's outstanding, we were told early on it was for the water connection but when after looking at the planning application for the estate and talking to the council we found out it was for the contribution


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    #21
    jeamimus
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jeamimus


    hairyslug wrote: »
    Sorry, it's a planning contribution that's outstanding, we were told early on it was for the water connection but when after looking at the planning application for the estate and talking to the council we found out it was for the contribution


    Are you absolutely positive that this payment is a lien on the property, and not something that is owed by the first developer?

    Do you know if the council made any serious attempt to collect the monies from any of the three previous owners?

    This and the passage of time gives me the impression that this debt of the original developer might be unenforceable. However, you must depend on your solicitor to clarify these things for you (Its much easier for the respective solicitors if somebody pays the bill rather than having to advise you on the likelyhood of you having to pay it down the road).

    The other issue of course is the banks attitude. This debt would not affect your title or anything like that, but it might affect their opinion of your financial situation. Of course in todays tick-box administrations it might mean that a box might not be able to be ticked and that could scupper things for you.


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    #22
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    From what the lady in the council said, the payment is in relation to the house itself.

    Out of the 3 owners, 2 of them have been the builders and from what the EA says no one has asked about or chased up the payment. The house is on 3 different planning apps so there is a bit of a paper trail to it to see what was owed.


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    #23
    hairyslug
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭hairyslug


    To hijack my own thread and turn it of course:
    In a typical estate where the builder has gone bust, does the new builder take on the responsibilities of managing the entire estate, my solicitor is waiting on clarification, 7 other sales have gone through since this time so we would like to think it is ok.


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