Where would you go next...

chalky_ie

carsfan2 wrote: »

I don’t know how he can appear so relaxed at 340kph. The slightest thing from an inattentive road user to debris on road etc and you’re a goner surely. It’s like watching a video game.

Good to see someone is helping keep the irish economy afloat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7eWu5AvIkI&t=29s


Have you settled into the 540i?
Anything you don’t like?is vrt sorted yet or is there a backlog?

Jesus, car salesman will say anything, "As I call it, the double bubble". Yeah, that term didn't exist in the car world before...

carsfan2

I think the M5 competition is an awesome car But reckon that bonnet is a step too far. it’s the kind of thing you’d expect on a ten year old Passat.

H3llR4iser

Cyrus wrote: »

The mind boggles

If you have enough cash to buy a new 840d how could you be that thick ?

I actually have another question - why would somebody with enough disposable income to get a brand new 840d, well, buy a diesel car at all?

carsfan2

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I actually have another question - why would somebody with enough disposable income to get a brand new 840d, well, buy a diesel car at all?

I think there’s Something like a 50k jump from the 840d to 850i so I suppose there are limits.

vintagevrs

vintagevrs wrote: »

840d for sale here.

Why the need to put an 850i badge on it though....odd decision.

https://www.inishowenmotors.ie/car-details/2563662/

Might be the dealer fooking about & not the previous owner.

Cyrus wrote: »

The mind boggles

If you have enough cash to buy a new 840d how could you be that thick ?

Plenty folk out there running daddies business etc etc

Cyrus

Augeo wrote: »

Might be the dealer fooking about & not the previous owner.



Plenty folk out there running daddies business etc etc

The reg plate suggests the owner though

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

The reg plate suggests the owner though

True

Astro127

Hi just wondering is it worth getting finance on a car ?

As I get bored of cars after awhile and move on , but if I got a car on finance I would be stuck with it for roughly 5 years

Is there anyway to get out of a finance deal if you want to get a different car

Would I have bad credit history then? Even If I never missed a payment.

bazz26

You can finance a car for different terms, it doesn't have to be 5 years. Obviously though the shorter the term the higher the monthly repayments. It's obviously daft to take out a loan over 5 years if you only plan to keep a car for 2 years. You can get out of it early but you will incur a hefty financial penalty to do so. You can pay off what you owe or refinance onto another car but your then just adding a loan plus interest onto another loan plus more interest which is being financially reckless imo. You will just end up always owing more than the car is worth.

Maybe better to look at PCP where the term is fixed at 3 years and many people change to a new PCP deal after 2 years where they have a good bit of equity in the car they are trading back.

carsfan2

bazz26 wrote: »

You can finance a car for different terms, it doesn't have to be 5 years. Obviously though the shorter the term the higher the monthly repayments. It's obviously daft to take out a loan over 5 years if you only plan to keep a car for 2 years. You can get out of it early but you will incur a hefty financial penalty to do so. You can pay off what you owe or refinance onto another car but your then just adding a loan plus interest onto another loan plus more interest which is being financially reckless imo. You will just end up always owing more than the car is worth.

Maybe better to look at PCP where the term is fixed at 3 years and many people change to a new PCP deal after 2 years where they have a good bit of equity in the car they are trading back.

I was playing around on the BMW configurator as you do and noticed they know have a finance option that lets you know the monthly’s for pcp or hp. Interestingly it defaults to a four year pcp term when you open it. I always thought three years was all you could do, but they now offer two and four year terms.
I initially thought payments seemed reasonable until I copped it was over four years not three.
I still don’t think BMW are setting these up to give you any equity really at the end of term unlike the VW group cars.

vintagevrs

Harry in the m5 comp....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ1bxypL6xY

Interesting impression of it, and makes sense.

bazz26

carsfan2 wrote: »

I was playing around on the BMW configurator as you do and noticed they know have a finance option that lets you know the monthly’s for pcp or hp. Interestingly it defaults to a four year pcp term when you open it. I always thought three years was all you could do, but they now offer two and four year terms.
I initially thought payments seemed reasonable until I copped it was over four years not three.
I still don’t think BMW are setting these up to give you any equity really at the end of term unlike the VW group cars.

Not sure if the OP asking was particularly referring to BMW or not but BMW seem to be the exception to the general rule out there. You look at the likes of VAG who's rates favor having equity towards the end of the PCP term in order to encourage you to stay with the brand. BMW finance reminds me of Sky TV where all their best offers are aimed at first time customer while remaining customers get nothing in return for staying with them.

Astro127

bazz26 wrote: »

You can finance a car for different terms, it doesn't have to be 5 years. Obviously though the shorter the term the higher the monthly repayments. It's obviously daft to take out a loan over 5 years if you only plan to keep a car for 2 years. You can get out of it early but you will incur a hefty financial penalty to do so. You can pay off what you owe or refinance onto another car but your then just adding a loan plus interest onto another loan plus more interest which is being financially reckless imo. You will just end up always owing more than the car is worth.

Maybe better to look at PCP where the term is fixed at 3 years and many people change to a new PCP deal after 2 years where they have a good bit of equity in the car they are trading back.

Does anyone get PCP for second hand cars or just brand new ? Iv heard alot of bad things about PCP maybe just better to trade my car in and put cash towards it .

Dont think I will get a brand new car for awhile yet until i get a house . Always concerned when parking people will just bang there door off your new car or even key it out of jealousy.

mickdw

Astro127 wrote: »

Does anyone get PCP for second hand cars or just brand new ? Iv heard alot of bad things about PCP maybe just better to trade my car in and put cash towards it .

Dont think I will get a brand new car for awhile yet until i get a house . Always concerned when parking people will just bang there door off your new car or even key it out of jealousy.

You can get pcp on used but it doesnt make sense really.
You will get very low interest rates on new cars with pcp.
This wont be an option on used cars and given that pcp pushes a large portion of the repayments to the end of the argreement, the interest works out pretty expensive.

bazz26

PCP doesn't make much financial sense on a second hand car. The best PCP incentives are on brand new cars where the manufacturers/dealers give lower rates and financial contributions. PCP on a second hand car would mean higher monthly rates as they need to make money on it before the car gets to an age where it's resale value significantly reduces. Also it makes no sense to owe a substantial balloon payment at the end of a PCP deal on a car that's say 5 or 6 years old. You could find yourself in negative equity.

To be honest if your going to be changing cars very frequently then borrowing any sort of large amount of money for one is not wise, all you will be doing is snowballing larger debt from one car to the next which makes it more expensive and harder to get out of.

vintagevrs

bazz26 wrote: »

Not sure if the OP asking was particularly referring to BMW or not but BMW seem to be the exception to the general rule out there. You look at the likes of VAG who's rates favor having equity towards the end of the PCP term in order to encourage you to stay with the brand. BMW finance reminds me of Sky TV where all their best offers are aimed at first time customer while remaining customers get nothing in return for staying with them.

The price of their cars and finance packages are the same for everyone, new or existing customers so it's not really like sky as you say.

The equity debate is a bit silly in my opinion. You pay higher monthlies and have more equity or you pay less and have less. It's 6 of one.

One company is focusing on getting the monthlies down as close to the bone to protect their gfmv and the other may be more conservative or possibly trying to make customers trading every three years more sustainable for the customer.


Also, you mentioned hefty penalties for paying off a loan early. What companies have these, as the VAG group dont?

mickdw

carsfan2 wrote: »

I was playing around on the BMW configurator as you do and noticed they know have a finance option that lets you know the monthly’s for pcp or hp. Interestingly it defaults to a four year pcp term when you open it. I always thought three years was all you could do, but they now offer two and four year terms.
I initially thought payments seemed reasonable until I copped it was over four years not three.
I still don’t think BMW are setting these up to give you any equity really at the end of term unlike the VW group cars.

I looked at bmw site there recently. 530e - 21k deposit, 860 per month for 3 years and 28k owed at end.
Too greedy on the interest and with the way main dealers take the piss on trade in values, there will be zero equity so a crazy
amount of money for 3 years driving - over 50k.

mickdw

vintagevrs wrote: »

The price of their cars and finance packages are the same for everyone, new or existing customers so it's not really like sky as you say.

The equity debate is a bit silly in my opinion. You pay higher monthlies and have more equity or you pay less and have less. It's 6 of one.

One company is focusing on getting the monthlies down as close to the bone to protect their gfmv and the other may be more conservative or possibly trying to make customers trading every three years more sustainable for the customer.


Also, you mentioned hefty penalties for paying off a loan early. What companies have these, as the VAG group dont?

Ya you can play with gfv etc but when they are greedy with interest amounts and very very mean with trade in on return, it completely swings the deal into crazy teritory. Im.aware you can trade in anywhere but the deal as setup makes returning to take another new bmw very difficult. Looks like bad business to me.

bazz26

vintagevrs wrote: »

The price of their cars and finance packages are the same for everyone, new or existing customers so it's not really like sky as you say.

The equity debate is a bit silly in my opinion. You pay higher monthlies and have more equity or you pay less and have less. It's 6 of one.

BMW gfmv payments are set very high compared to the resale or trade-in values of their cars. Yes it's designed to make monthlies low to attract new customers but when those customers come back after 3 years to go PCP again they are hit with coming up a substantially higher deposit or pay higher monthly payments just to stay with the brand. Compare that to VAG who give 0% on some of their offerings while still having reasonable monthly payments, resale values are realistic enough to give the customer enough equity for another PCP deposit. Hence the comparison to Sky whose main focus is on targeting new customers.

vintagevrs wrote: »

One company is focusing on getting the monthlies down as close to the bone to protect their gfmv and the other may be more conservative or possibly trying to make customers trading every three years more sustainable for the customer.

They might be protecting their GFMV but BMW trade-in values don't concur with that. That target of going after cheap monthlies has pushed a fair few returning customers to other brands.

vintagevrs wrote: »

Also, you mentioned hefty penalties for paying off a loan early. What companies have these, as the VAG group dont?

The poster asked about finance in general so I'm talking about penalties on HP/personal loans if your on a fixed interest rate. To me a penalty is having to pay the capital amount plus full term interest even if paying off the amount or refinancing before the term matures.

vintagevrs

bazz26 wrote: »

The poster asked about finance in general so I'm talking about penalties on HP/personal loans if your on a fixed interest rate. To me a penalty is having to pay the capital amount plus full term interest even if paying off the amount or refinancing before the term matures.

Does this happen? Any experience I have had of a loan, paying off the loan early means you do not pay the full interest to the lender that they would have got if you didn't pay it off early but maybe that was just my experience?

bazz26

On a fixed term loan it can in my experience. Might not be universal across the board though.

carsfan2

In general I agree pcp on used cars seems poor.
But Audi offer at times 3.9% on used cars and on nearly new cars less than a year old it can make sense.
I saw the figures for A6 3.0 Quattro at a year old. The car had depreciated over 20k from its original 80k price and was high fifties as a one year old. The three year pcp deal on offer was ok I thought. GFV was about 26k at four years old.
That deal made more sense than buying new on pcp to me.

With regards to paying off early, I have seen deals where if you pay off early you are still caught for some interest as Bazz said. I know VW don’t do this but others do.
I think the days of chopping and changing cars at little or no cost are long gone regardless of make or model.

James Bond Junior

Firsthand experience of BMW pcp here. Bought an ex demo from BMW on PCP. Drove for 3 years and to go again for a similar deal pushed the monthly up by 45%. It was cheaper to pay the balloon off and sell it privately to upgrade. Sold the car for 33% more than their GMFV as it happens.

Heres Johnny

mickdw wrote: »

I looked at bmw site there recently. 530e - 21k deposit, 860 per month for 3 years and 28k owed at end.
Too greedy on the interest and with the way main dealers take the piss on trade in values, there will be zero equity so a crazy
amount of money for 3 years driving - over 50k.

21k deposit
30,960 in payments
28k baloon

That's 79,960 for a 530e

Are you sure those figures are right?
Did you pile on extras?

Although I agree 100% with you that there will be no equity in that car after 36 months. 2017s are retailing for around 30k now. You'd be hammered if you try go again

mickdw

They had it on the road at 69k for m sport. With 79k repayable at 8.9 percent.
Im thinking maybe they are not allowing the 7.5k seai grant and vrt rebate. Im.not overly familiar with irish pricing on them new.

Heres Johnny

mickdw wrote: »

They had it on the road at 69k for m sport. With 79k repayable at 8.9 percent.
Im thinking maybe they are not allowing the 7.5k seai grant and vrt rebate. Im.not overly familiar with irish pricing on them new.

8.9%, wow. That would bring it to 79k alright. I couldn't figure the numbers out as I was thinking 3% max interest charge.
It would be 48k payable at 8.9% BTW, 69k purchase less the 21k deposit.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

. Also it makes no sense to owe a substantial balloon payment at the end of a PCP deal on a car that's say 5 or 6 years old. You could find yourself in negative equity.

.

PCP negative equity?
If the deposit and payments made over the term gets you in negative equity surely that's an opportunity to hand car back and pick up a similar one for less then the balloon payment?

Top chief

I'm happy with getting a car between 2015 - 2017 dont see any difference in a brand new car other then the reg .
First thing that pops in my head when I see a new car is finance.

I would look back at a nice classic car before any new car

Rather have my car paid off in full , then sell when ever I want something new or trade in dont lose much .

No debts or loans to worry about.

carsfan2

carsfan2 wrote: »

...... do.
I think the days of chopping and changing cars at little or no cost are long gone regardless of make or model.

Was there ever a time when changing cars a year or three old was at little or no cost? Depreciation was always prevalent surely.

I think cars are getting more expensive over the last 5 years though. From the recession to 2015 new cars were quite reasonable and their prices weren't in the rise.

To be fair to BMW their PCP deals are 100% transparent.....the deposit and payments over the PCP term will likely be what BMW reckon the thing has depreciated by.... It's what a lease should be.

BMW’s pcp is a joke compared to VW. GFV give very little equity opportunity, monthly repayments too high and interest at absolute rip off rates.

Heres Johnny

Augeo wrote: »

Was there ever a time when changing cars a year or three old was at little or no cost? Depreciation was always prevalent surely.

I think cars are getting more expensive over the last 5 years though. From the recession to 2015 new cars were quite reasonable and their prices weren't in the rise.

To be fair to BMW their PCP deals are 100% transparent.....the deposit and payments over the PCP term will likely be what BMW reckon the thing has depreciated by.... It's what a lease should be.

Yeah it's nothing new... I know initial purchase price of some of my cars I've bought over the years

2001 E39 530i msport auto bought in 08 for 8k (recession) 70k new, had initial invoice, so lost 62k in 7 years. 70k miles on clock

06 alfa 156 1.6 sport model bought in 2010 for 5k. Would have been in region of 40k. Lost 35k in 4 years. 56k kms on clock.

04 525i msport auto bought in 2013 for 2750 euro. Not sure of purchase price new but based on the 530i I had I'd be guessing it was in the 60s somewhere. So lost in region of 60k. 100k kms on clock.

2006 e60 523i msport auto with an initial list price of 67k based on an old price list I found online. Had individual paint colour and an interior I never saw before or again and I bought for 4500 in 2016. So somewhere in the region of 60-65k in 10 years. 90k kms on clock.

2014 f10 530d msport bought in UK at auction by a mechanic cousin with contacts for me in 2018. Bought and cleared vrt for 21k. 58k kms on it. Not sure of new price but would have been 70k in ireland anyway.

2014 audi a6 s line auto which i still have bought for 20k in December 2018 for 20k. Would be high 50s new I'd imagine as there's a few nice extras on it. 56k kms on it. Was a UK import at 3 months old but I bought it in cash from a used car dealer here.

So.... Nothing new going on with depreciation. Some of the older ones were big engined petrol which drank petrol and were on old tax rate which I thought depreciated them prematurely but the recent 2 were low tax cars and diesel and pretty frugal. I now think the ease of getting new cars is pushing used prices down as there's massive downward pressure on them as they even hit 3 or 4 years of age.

James Bond Junior

Heres Johnny wrote: »

8.9%, wow. That would bring it to 79k alright. I couldn't figure the numbers out as I was thinking 3% max interest charge.
It would be 48k payable at 8.9% BTW, 69k purchase less the 21k deposit.

8.9% is shockingly expensive. Our rate was 3.9% back in 2015 from BMW finance. I can get 6% with the teachers credit union.

mickdw

James Bond Junior wrote: »

8.9% is shockingly expensive. Our rate was 3.9% back in 2015 from BMW finance. I can get 6% with the teachers credit union.

Its nuts on a pcp because with the bulk offset to the end, it magnifies the cost of the interest versus a standard loan.
2.9 percent would be plenty to be paying on a pcp.
Credit unions are a joke too for the most part.

James Bond Junior

mickdw wrote: »

Its nuts on a pcp because with the bulk offset to the end, it magnifies the cost of the interest versus a standard loan.
2.9 percent would be plenty to be paying on a pcp.
Credit unions are a joke too for the most part.

We financed our Jeep here in the desert. 12 cheques in advance. They charge 7%, OK I said but read the details. 7% of the original principle is applied per year, absolutely nuts. 10k costs 700 a year, every year. We did 12 cheques which was €900 a month roughly but once we gathered the money I settled the outstanding cheques early. Paying over 2 or 3 years would have been mental interest. Up to7 year terms are the norm, the salesman couldn't understand why I wanted to pay a 20% deposit up front and pay in 12 cheques. Looked at me even funnier when I asked how to pay off early.

Wailin

Anyone ever bother with bmw connected drive? Never did myself but wondering what benefits, if any, it has?

vintagevrs

Wailin wrote: »

Anyone ever bother with bmw connected drive? Never did myself but wondering what benefits, if any, it has?

Yours is a lot newer than mine, but the only practical use I have for it is sending the car a destination. Searching via idrive is clunky at best. Locking/unlocking/flashing lights and location of car is/has been of zero use so far for me.

digiman

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202007261710508

This is a stunning car, I think this is the nicest one I have ever seen to be honest. Crazy money though for a 2018 car though, it's not a huge jump to an M5 from that price, he will have it for a while I would imagine.

Speaking of well speced cars that havn't sold, this one here still hasn't sold. I viewed this back in Nov when I was still on the fence about the Tesla, beautiful car, if it had of been the 540i and the chrome deleted I would be driving it today I think.

H3llR4iser

carsfan2 wrote: »

I think there’s Something like a 50k jump from the 840d to 850i so I suppose there are limits.

Yeah but there is the 840i, which also has 20hp over the diesel - and costs a tad less last time I checked.

Then again, the registration, the badge and the fact the car was apparently bought at the beginning of the year and it's already on sale possibly tells the story of an utter character - what are the chances the car was actually taken back 'cause they never paid?

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

..............
2.9 percent would be plenty to be paying on a pcp.
........

On their site Kearys BMW have the following finance examples, mmore too of course but I'm just copying a few........ bottom of the range examples presumably....

3 series OTR €44,115​
Deposit €13,115​
​Amount Financed €30,881​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Credit €2,888​
APR​ 3.9%​


5 series
​OTR €56,235​
​Deposit €16,871​
​Amount Financed €39,365​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Credit €3,756​
​APR 3.9%​

X3
​OTR €61,605​
Deposit​ €18,482​
​Amount Financed €43,124​
​Term (months) ​37
​Total Cost of Credit €3,068​
​APR 2.9%​


4 series
​OTR €51,165​
Deposit​ €15,350​
​Amount Financed €35,816​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Finance ​€3,263
​APR 3.9%​

X5
​OTR €88,265​
​Deposit €26,480​
​Amount Financed €61,786​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Finance ​€4,504
​APR 2.9%​

Cyrus

Augeo wrote: »

On their site Kearys BMW have the following finance examples, mmore too of course but I'm just copying a few........ bottom of the range examples presumably....

3 series OTR €44,115​
Deposit €13,115​
​Amount Financed €30,881​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Credit €2,888​
APR​ 3.9%​


5 series
​OTR €56,235​
​Deposit €16,871​
​Amount Financed €39,365​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Credit €3,756​
​APR 3.9%​

X3
​OTR €61,605​
Deposit​ €18,482​
​Amount Financed €43,124​
​Term (months) ​37
​Total Cost of Credit €3,068​
​APR 2.9%​


4 series
​OTR €51,165​
Deposit​ €15,350​
​Amount Financed €35,816​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Finance ​€3,263
​APR 3.9%​

X5
​OTR €88,265​
​Deposit €26,480​
​Amount Financed €61,786​
​Term (months) 37​
​Total Cost of Finance ​€4,504
​APR 2.9%​

surprised to see the x5 at 2.9%, thats good to be fair.

bazz26

The X5 is listed @ 5.9% on the Joe Duffy BMW website so I'd take any of those website listed rates with a pinch of salt.

carsfan2

The rates Augeo has put up are correct as far as I know. 3.9 across the range and 2.9 for x3/5.
Hybrids are 5.9% for some reason. A bit odd as BMW are pushing those models the most.
The configurator is miles off on the hybrids as doesn’t take grants into account.
The 8.9% Mick quoted is the default rate BMW charge but It’s actually 5.9% now.
Regardless of the rates, I would be slow to buy a BMW on pcp.

carsfan2

Cyrus wrote: »

surprised to see the x5 at 2.9%, thats good to be fair.

We didn’t take it but when we bought our X5 the dealer said the majority of buyers were taking pcp as the rate was so good.

mickdw

carsfan2 wrote: »

The rates Augeo has put up are correct as far as I know. 3.9 across the range and 2.9 for x3/5.
Hybrids are 5.9% for some reason. A bit odd as BMW are pushing those models the most.
The configurator is miles off on the hybrids as doesn’t take grants into account.
The 8.9% Mick quoted is the default rate BMW charge but It’s actually 5.9% now.
Regardless of the rates, I would be slow to buy a BMW on pcp.

BMW have been shocking in general re putting finance info on website.
How hard can it be to get this stuff right.
They actually had 5.9 on the 4 year pcp and 8.9 on the 3 year pcp.

Paul Kiernan

Would I be mad to buy one of these CAT S 330e's? Would BMW honour the warranty to Jan 2021?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202007020789279?postcode=sy38sb&year-from=2018&transmission=Automatic&year-to=new&make=BMW&model=3%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&page=1

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202007050872513?postcode=sy38sb&year-from=2018&transmission=Automatic&year-to=new&make=BMW&model=3%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&page=1

Wailin

digiman wrote: »

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202007261710508

This is a stunning car, I think this is the nicest one I have ever seen to be honest. Crazy money though for a 2018 car though, it's not a huge jump to an M5 from that price, he will have it for a while I would imagine.

Speaking of well speced cars that havn't sold, this one here still hasn't sold. I viewed this back in Nov when I was still on the fence about the Tesla, beautiful car, if it had of been the 540i and the chrome deleted I would be driving it today I think.

That's lovely, colour combo and spec is gorgeous. £77k new, imagine the cost here.

Zero warranty on that second one would put me though.

frozenfrozen

two very nice cars. The 530d is huge spec

Mickiemcfist

Quick question, would a B7 RS4 be a theft risk?
Figured golf Rs are the new targets, RS4 probably wouldn't be half as quick in the real world so I'm thinking the RS4 would be grand.

Its not a problem I'd ever think of but my brother said he'd be worried about it when I mentioned I was considering one. Never had any problems with the e46 m3 so im fairly oblivious to it.

bazz26

Anything quick is a theft risk.

Wailin

What a frickin car!

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/porsche-911-gt3-rs-pdk-auto/25436639

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3e7lXlPOu4