Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

windy shepard henderson

adrian522 wrote: »

We actually weren't.

cant beat honesty , but there were not many pretenders to the throne at the time either

bruschi

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

not having a pop at wexford i just think kilkenny were terrible tonight though ,

the one thing wexford lack is belief in themselves , they have been a good side for years without relay backing themselves , for some reason davy fitz has been the man to get ye going ,i just hope he dose not bring the same level of controversy to ye as he brought to us (albeit after an ireland success)

i am not taking anything away from wexford but ye either caught a team on the hop or off guard tonight and more power to ye for it , best of luck in the leinster final

but maybe Kilkenny were terrible tonight because they ARE terrible. Now I know they arent, but its not like this wasnt foreseen. Wexford beat them quite easily in the league, and people said sure tis only the league. But as Kilkenny themselves know, winning is habit. I dont think they caught Kilkenny on the hop at all. The bookies may have thought so, but they also at 3/1 gave me a few handy quid.

I also dont think we have had a good side for a long time. Dunne never really had a great team, he had a couple of good players and a bunch of good 21s coming through the ranks. They are finally hitting stride now, so its a bit of a combination of Fitz getting the best out of the best crop of young players we have had since the early 90s.

dobbs2210

On a side note, great to see a former great in PJ Ryan do well with Wexford on the sideline in the absence of Davy Fitzgerald.

A great genuine hurling man. How Kilkenny never got him involved at minor, u21 or senior level in some capacity is crazy stuff. He backed himself and headed to Wexford and more power to him.

phkk

dobbs2210 wrote: »

On a side note, great to see a former great in PJ Ryan do well with Wexford on the sideline in the absence of Davy Fitzgerald.

A great genuine hurling man. How Kilkenny never got him involved at minor, u21 or senior level in some capacity is crazy stuff. He backed himself and headed to Wexford and more power to him.

Yeah, a sounder fella you couldn't meet. He looked very pumped on the sideline and was barking instructions goodo. More power to him

minty81

Shambles. Not like we were caught on the hop here, this came was coming down the tracks for last 6 months.
Padraig Walsh our full back plan all league, misses 6 weeks with injury, doesn't train and then thrown in centre forward?! He was clearly well off the pace. Whatever happened to players needing to perform in training at least 10 days prior to championship?
Richie Reid, as lovely a hurler i think he is, he's a half back with the shamrocks, thrown on corner forward?
Lester Ryan (though i thought one of our better performers tonight) has never been a forward.
Our touch looked so poor, lost count of the amount of times we coughed up possession. Many at times where we weren't even under that much pressure.
Tonight is reality though. Richie and TJ have carried us the last couple of years, Richie has severe back problems and both just have so much milage on the clock, their bodies are older than 28/29 year old hurlers.
Once they're held, and with no Mick Fennelly, we had no one around half forward line or midfield to step up to the plate.
We just have so many mediocre hurlers at the moment, big men, hard workers but too slow on their feet and in their heads. Wexford far slicker touch than us.
I don't think wexford were any great shakes either, they should've had the game wrapped up much earlier.
Galway will never get a better chance to get over the line this year.
For us dreading the thought of tipp in the qualifiers

kilkennyboy

Rd 1 Rd2


Tipp
Cork/wat
Kilkenny
Lim
Dub
Cw/laois
Offaly
Westmeath

If wat beat cork they can't meet tipp again
If we can avoid the top 2 we will
Tip v wat _____ tip v lim
Kilk v dub
Lim v laois _____ kk v offaly
Offaly v west
And we are back
No forget that we are ****ed

Dionysis

Firstly, to the lad on here who said a couple of months ago that Cody couldn't learn anything from Davy on preparing new young players after the suggestion was made. That's two schoolings in three months.

Younger players have not been pushed hard enough since last Nov. We knew we needed younger players then, and we drifted along thinking the few weeks between April and June would prepare them for championship hurling. It has not and last night was a joke.
Cody is at fault for that.
The players let him down last night though, they were a disgrace. Nothing short of a disgrace. You take on the task of wearing that jersey, you don't disgrace it, last night a lot of them did.

I don't expect them to be at the standard of Shefflin, Walsh, Jj...... but I do expect them to give their all.

boggerman1

Looking forward to travelling down to nowlan pk from tipp in july.we all know its going to happen.god kilkenny looked a bigger shambles last nite compared to last september.only for tj and fennelly they would have suffered a bigger hammering.3 points flattered kilkenny in the end.by the way tj is some penelty taker.

letsseehere14

kilkennyboy wrote:

Rd 1 Rd2

kilkennyboy wrote:

Tipp Cork/wat Kilkenny Lim Dub Cw/laois Offaly Westmeath

kilkennyboy wrote:

If wat beat cork they can't meet tipp again If we can avoid the top 2 we will Tip v wat _____ tip v lim Kilk v dub Lim v laois _____ kk v offaly Offaly v west And we are back No forget that we are ****ed

The first qualifier draw keeps Munster teams apart and Leinster teams apart so it's likely Kilkenny will have to play one of Lim, Tipp, Cork/Wat in the first round and possibly the second round to make the qfs.

It's:
Limerick
Tipperary
Cork/Waterford
1 Leinster Team

Versus

Kilkenny
Dublin
Offaly/Galway
Westmeath
Carlow/Laois

Easiest run in would be to be drawn on the Munster side of the draw but I have a feeling that is kept for Carlow/Laois or Westmeath. The teams that came through the round robin/christy ring. I may be wrong though

C__MC

As posted before the game, I expected a huge game from Kilkenny on the back of last year and the league. Wexford are certinly not special but they bullied killkenny from start to finish last night. It was alarming that some of the players couldn't execute some of the basic skills of the game last night and the lack of Pace was something else up the middle. Kilkenny's tactics were mind boggling as well, it was like the league game in April never happened or Wexford out taught them tactically. The dogs on the street know chin is a great player so why let him free in the 2nd half? Why not push up on the sweeper?

There was no method to there play, route one ball all the time. I see awlyward getting flack on here, put it this way he done more in his cameo then some his team mates in the full 70. I'd be very skeptical now if kk could put a run through the qualifiers, they are lacking so much from management to player quality. Many posters on here called this decline from last September, and it looks to be vindicated.

1984baby

FFS, Cody stop playing players that are not 100% fit. F*****G STUPID. The lads on the bench must be raging, surely the lads who are there are putting the effort in and training hard, so why not pick them. Walsh not fit and by the looks of things last night Aylward way off the pace. Both needed more time to recover. Plenty of cover in the backs, who were fit - Joey, Reid etc.. and more options to start in the forwards - Bolger, Blanch, Kelly etc..
Also, stop playing the players out of position, Buckley and Fogarty - All Stars in their best positions now playing elsewhere. P Walsh All Star wing back playing only 1/2 fit at centre forward.
We need a handy draw in the qualifiers for the 1st round or else we're out extremely early. We prob won't know until 25/26 June.
Will we every see M Fen again?
Any1 else think JJ Farrell is getting a raw deal??

Hitchens

Too much ridiculous over analysis everywhere. No one really has a clue. Mostly wishful thinking. Pessimism\Optimism two sides of the same coin. Just enjoy hurling for the beauty of the sport. Does it really matter who wins or loses?

As in life, so in hurling!

unrealtime

Does it matter who wins or loses? Is the Pope a Catholic. Think it mattered to Wexford yesterday if not to us. Hope Down win an All Ireland soon.

corner back 2

Hitchens wrote: »

Too much ridiculous over analysis everywhere. No one really has a clue. Mostly wishful thinking. Pessimism\Optimism two sides of the same coin. Just enjoy hurling for the beauty of the sport. Does it really matter who wins or loses?

As in life, so in hurling!

There would be no fun if we didn't over analyze the it!! No need for boards.ie at all then!!

dobbs2210

1984baby wrote: »

FFS, Cody stop playing players that are not 100% fit. F*****G STUPID. The lads on the bench must be raging, surely the lads who are there are putting the effort in and training hard, so why not pick them. Walsh not fit and by the looks of things last night Aylward way off the pace. Both needed more time to recover. Plenty of cover in the backs, who were fit - Joey, Reid etc.. and more options to start in the forwards - Bolger, Blanch, Kelly etc..
Also, stop playing the players out of position, Buckley and Fogarty - All Stars in their best positions now playing elsewhere. P Walsh All Star wing back playing only 1/2 fit at centre forward.
We need a handy draw in the qualifiers for the 1st round or else we're out extremely early. We prob won't know until 25/26 June.
Will we every see M Fen again?
Any1 else think JJ Farrell is getting a raw deal??

This is the point entirely, the message that Brian Cody sends out when playing injured players ahead of other panel players that are bursting their ass is terrible.

I agree and think Johnjoe Farrell is getting a raw deal big time must be raging sitting on the bench looking at injured players getting picked, sub goalkeeper getting put on in the forwards. In all the talk from Brian about the panel, the panel the panel, I trust my panel totally....I think it's bluff talk personally.

Why not make changes last year in the All-Ireland final is he trusts his panel? Why not trust his panel last night and start players that are FIT rather than injured.

Don't and never did buy this whole the panel, the panel, the panel talk and the evidence stacks up.

Dionysis

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

Dionysis

dobbs2210 wrote: »

This is the point entirely, the message that Brian Cody sends out when playing injured players ahead of other panel players that are bursting their ass is terrible.

I agree and think Johnjoe Farrell is getting a raw deal big time must be raging sitting on the bench looking at injured players getting picked, sub goalkeeper getting put on in the forwards. In all the talk from Brian about the panel, the panel the panel, I trust my panel totally....I think it's bluff talk personally.

Why not make changes last year in the All-Ireland final is he trusts his panel? Why not trust his panel last night and start players that are FIT rather than injured.

Don't and never did buy this whole the panel, the panel, the panel talk and the evidence stacks up.

John Joe has been tried umteen times, and doesn't deliver. His ball control and ball striking is poor for an intercounty hurler. No getting away from that.

Dionysis

Hitchens wrote: »

Too much ridiculous over analysis everywhere. No one really has a clue. Mostly wishful thinking. Pessimism\Optimism two sides of the same coin. Just enjoy hurling for the beauty of the sport. Does it really matter who wins or loses?

As in life, so in hurling!

Give up the trolling.
Yes it does matter, this is Kk, this is what we do, this is who we are. Hurling means everything to us. That is why a county of our size sits at the top of the top table.

Shirleysrumbler

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

Harsh words here.We're probably a little off the pace OK. For whatever reason KK are using the second string emergants from latest generation eg.OShea,Blanch and Deegan,Lennon. Players like Jos Lyng,Leahy,Cleere &Delaney are more mobile & better hurlers.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Harsh words here.We're probably a little off the pace OK. For whatever reason KK are using the second string emergants from latest generation eg.OShea,Blanch and Deegan,Lennon. Players like Jos Lyng,Leahy,Cleere &Delaney are more mobile & better hurlers.

I though Lester was good yesterday, at least in the first half anyway

usualstripes

I don't know how lads are going in training and I know cody was looking for strength yesterday against Wexford but it did not work.

No disrespect to any player but if you are not up to it, which a good few were not yesterday, then you have to try something different.

What was wrong with cleere and leahy yesterday? Were they injured/not fit/not hurling well?????
Did mick fennelly go over on his ankle? There must be some reason these guys were not involved.
There has to be players out there better than o shea and lennon.
Cleere and delaney are young but surely would have fared better than the aforementioned.
Maybe they are not and if that's the case we are in big trouble.

Leahy, cleere, delaney, bolger and maher have to step up and be given a chance to step up. Otherwise we are going nowhere. If these guys are not being given a chance what better guys are out there?????

Just on another note bolder seemed to be up for it. Give him a starting role in the 1st qualifier. Along with mick fennelly, padraig and leahy fit we will improve substantially from last night.
Also I've never seen as poor striking yesterday, particularly in front of goal. At least 8-10 handy scores missed for this level of hurling.

usualstripes

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I though Lester was good yesterday, at least in the first half anyway

I'll put it to you this way. When lester was going through 45 yards out he should be experienced enough to shorten the grip on the hurl going for a point and not get hooked or run into trouble as he did. These are the small things that generate success or end in failure

unrealtime

Like the idea of divisional sides and I believe we might thereby be able in time to increase the number of senior clubs by two without diluting the quality of our senior clubs which has us on top of the pile for so long.

I also believe in the quality of our under-21 team this year and expect that team to add some players to the strong coterie of class players that we still have. Now if we can get the management right!!

Faugheen

The way Lee Chin stepped out of the shadows in the second half was as impressive as any other player in the last number of years. Outstanding.

Buckley was taken off him, granted, which poses a concerning question in itself.

We looked so off the pace yesterday in everything we did. Shooting, passing, physicality etc. There was some awful wides. Were it not for Colin Fennelly we would have lost by double digits. Everything he touched turned to gold.

Someone said it earlier, although TJ played well he has to be leading the pack rather than just leading by example. This panel is not as talented as the one he came through with. Richie Hogan is going missing far too many times for my liking as well.

Wally's gone back to playing his game of hide and seek, Lester just isn't good enough and he gets far more chances than others.

And Jesus Christ, whose bright idea was it to have Rob Lennon marking Conor McDonald?

I was hoping that at the end of the league that Cody had found his Championship XV, he's nowhere near it. We miss Michael Fennelly big time, which is a huge problem considering he's pretty much playing injured when he does play. Don't get me wrong, the man is a brilliant hurler but we're already getting more miles out of him than we expected considering his problems and he's someone we shouldn't be relying on. We should have had his replacement primed and ready to go so that when we did start to see less of him then it wouldn't feel like as big of a loss as it does now.

From 2-9 we still don't know who's best where. Murphy is clearly our 2 but he's been so off the boil this year it's concerning. Everyone is all over the place.

Just a disclaimer, I hope come the business end of the Championship and look at the above post and laugh my arse off at its inaccuracies, but right now it's hard to see us getting past the quarter final (and that's if we avoid Tipp in the qualifiers)

davidx40

People may talk about the panel and brian does ,even his statement after all ireland last year about players on our panel that are going to be stars .....a lot of people were scratching there head wondering who he was talking about.....the fall in standard is huge but history shows that any team that dominates for so long when the end comes it comes rapid ...kerry footballers were same in eighties......but boy had we sometime since 2000...never be matched id say ...the difference in standard theres 5/6 lads starting now that wouldnt have being making up training numbers 7/8 years ago...and thats a fact

1984baby

Dionysis wrote: »

John Joe has been tried umteen times, and doesn't deliver. His ball control and ball striking is poor for an intercounty hurler. No getting away from that.

The same JJ Farrell that started 3 championship matches last season scoring 2-09 from play?? If that's not delivering, I'd love to see some1 who does.

Powerhouse

Dionysis wrote: »

Hitchens wrote: »

Too much ridiculous over analysis everywhere. No one really has a clue. Mostly wishful thinking. Pessimism\Optimism two sides of the same coin. Just enjoy hurling for the beauty of the sport. Does it really matter who wins or loses?

As in life, so in hurling!

Give up the trolling.
Yes it does matter, this is Kk, this is what we do, this is who we are. Hurling means everything to us. That is why a county of our size sits at the top of the top table.

I know the "none of this matters in the grand scheme of things" type of reply is not very helpful in the circumstances but to be fair your own reply is one of the loopy variety that puts people off too. There is no harm is being more than one-dimensional. It is not a weakness. And as for a "county of our size".............come on, 100k people and no football team to speak of?  If the likes of Cork, Dublin, Tipp, Galway, Limerick, or indeed Wexford could devote their entire population to one sport your comment about the size of the county might not be laughable. In practice, I doubt there's a county with a bigger pick when it comes to hurling.

Dionysis

davidx40 wrote: »

People may talk about the panel and brian does ,even his statement after all ireland last year about players on our panel that are going to be stars .....a lot of people were scratching there head wondering who he was talking about.....the fall in standard is huge but history shows that any team that dominates for so long when the end comes it comes rapid ...kerry footballers were same in eighties......but boy had we sometime since 2000...never be matched id say ...the difference in standard theres 5/6 lads starting now that wouldnt have being making up training numbers 7/8 years ago...and thats a fact

Would agree from a talent point of view, but there's no excuse for not trying and getting bullied all over the field.

Nickindublin

As Faugheen has just said KK problem is 2-9. Cody does not know who to play where and has been switching them all year trying to find a solution and he has failed. It's time to go back to basics and put your best players in their best positions. Particularly the Half Back line. He then has to settle on FB and CB. The only good thing out of yesterday's game was that he didn't play Mick. Hopefully he will be back the next day. All starters should be 100% fit. Modern day hurling requires that.

dubcat51

Think your post is way over the top.agree with some points like blanch and players being played out of position.cant agree were better off out of the all ireland(still enough quality to win it)were in the leinster 17,18 and provably 21 finals.quality in there going forward.

Dionysis

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

I can understand your frustration but jesus these are amateur athletes at the end of the day. Calling them a disgrace is bang out of order. They are not on thousands a week like some of the fraudsters plying their trade across the irish sea.

Kilkenny are going through a dip of talent after having a decade and a half of non stop glory and for god sake you only lost the game by 1 score....1 score after making a great comeback.

There is a few good points in your post though. Kilkenny were sweeping all before them in the underage grades but other counties such as ourselves, Waterford, Galway, Clare in particular have caught up in terms of aggression and physicality. Kilkenny dont have that real aggressive type of player on the panel at present. Without singling out any single player i must say i did find it unusual that Shane Prendergast was seemingly sharing a joke with John Mcgrath during last years final. I just could not imagine Tommy, Jackie Tyrell or JJ Delaney doing likewise. Fact is you have lost a golden generation of players through retirement/injury and in particular, Shefflin, Tyrell, JJ, Tommy, Richie Power, Eoin Larkin, Michael Rice, Eddie Brennan.....you just dont replace those guys around the next corner.

JJs Left Hand

Nice to see lads taking the team losing so well that they're advocating abusing people on the street. Classy.

Charlie69

I know we've lost some of the best hurlers to ever play the game to retirement but in my opinion Martin Fogarty has been a huge loss also, very highly thought of by the players and unlike Brian was a great man manager and motivator.. He was also very astute tactically and apparently was the one person on the line that Cody would actually listen to.

Dionysis

In all my years of watching KK, yesterday's game was the first time I ever saw KK under pressure to name a squad in advance of the game, and see a KK team lay down all over the park. A lot of volunteers time and money has gone into these lads, and in return what's asked is an honest effort to do their best. Last night for those of us who actually support the team from up close and go to the games, it was the most obvious example of players not bothered performing the basics they learned as 8-10 year olds. Again, for those who were at the game, they will have noticed two kids teams playing at half time, show more understanding, skills and commitment, than that showed by the KK team in the senior game.

Cody has many faults as do we all, but the players seriously left him down last night.

brookville

Nickindublin wrote: »

As Faugheen has just said KK problem is 2-9. Cody does not know who to play where and has been switching them all year trying to find a solution and he has failed. It's time to go back to basics and put your best players in their best positions. Particularly the Half Back line. He then has to settle on FB and CB. The only good thing out of yesterday's game was that he didn't play Mick. Hopefully he will be back the next day. All starters should be 100% fit. Modern day hurling requires that.

Firstly congrats to wexford the best team won and in fairness our lads fought it out to the very end and could of got a late goal to draw it.Bolger should of turned to his left an goaled his chance

While I agree we'll have to go back to basics and some of the defending was criminal yesterday but our forwards yesterday minus colin just weren't good enough and hasn't being during the league
Gers touch wasn't in and bolger tried hard but showed his inexperience with his goal chance
It's a very very long road now win 4 matches to get to the final I don't fancy our chances tbh

Dionysis

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can understand your frustration but jesus these are amateur athletes at the end of the day. Calling them a disgrace is bang out of order. They are not on thousands a week like some of the fraudsters plying their trade across the irish sea.

Kilkenny are going through a dip of talent after having a decade and a half of non stop glory and for god sake you only lost the game by 1 score....1 score after making a great comeback.

There is a few good points in your post though. Kilkenny were sweeping all before them in the underage grades but other counties such as ourselves, Waterford, Galway, Clare in particular have caught up in terms of aggression and physicality. Kilkenny dont have that real aggressive type of player on the panel at present. Without singling out any single player i must say i did find it unusual that Shane Prendergast was seemingly sharing a joke with John Mcgrath during last years final. I just could not imagine Tommy, Jackie Tyrell or JJ Delaney doing likewise. Fact is you have lost a golden generation of players through retirement/injury and in particular, Shefflin, Tyrell, JJ, Tommy, Richie Power, Eoin Larkin, Michael Rice, Eddie Brennan.....you just dont replace those guys around the next corner.

I don't expect another team of a life time, but either Wexford have just found s team of a life time, or they used the talent at their disposal that never won an underage title, and gave KK a trimming, for the second time in 10+ weeks.

randd1

My two cents worth..

While the players have to some flak for this performance, the root of this performance for me was the management. Tactically, in terms of preparation, fitness and player position, it's been a shambles all year.

Playing unfit men is just plain stupid in this day and age, and its not the first time Cody has done it, there's no way Padraig Walsh should have started. And on fitness, how are we so slow? We look big and cumbersome, like we've spent all winter in the gym. The lack of physical fitness is a big worry, we dont look like we have any type of real pace or power in the side to close down the space or win the dirty ball.

They look like a poorly prepared side. What struck me most was the poor first touch, and complete lack of basics in the game. The players had no idea what they were at, or how they were meant to play, it was all very haphazard, panic in the moment type stuff. And lads being played out of positions they've won All-Stars in, move around with no notion of what's required.

On the players, some would want to have a real look at themselves and their attitude. Richie Hogan, Walter Walsh and Paul Murphy were once again miles off the pace and looked disinterested, the lack of throwing themselves into things was obvious from the off. The less said the better, but special mention to Buckley, TJ and Fennelly who drove at Wexford and fought tooth and nail for everything from start to finish.

And another thing too. Idle speculation is pointless, but I'll play devil's advocate here. Throughout the league, and again yesterday, the players overall have played with a lack of belief, drive and fire in the belly, the Tipp game apart. And the Tipp game apart, our entire gameplan for getting scores is hail Mary passes up front with an expectation the forward should win their own ball, there's been no creativity, invention or intelligence in the ball we give forward all year. The constant chopping and changing of the side has left them completely confused as to what they're meant to be doing, which is why we've looked disjointed and all over the place this year. Cody doesn't know his first 15, doesn't know where to play lads to get the best out of them, and hasn't tried any attacking tactic beyond win high ball and smash through the opposition, which is simply playing into the oppositions hands these days.

The majority of this squad were on the brink of 3 in a row last, playing varied hurling with a settled team. Its amazing how much poorer, slower, lacking in quality, drive, direction, belief and the basics of the game they've regressed in 9 months. For me, Cody has lost the plot, the players have lost faith and its pride in the jersey and respect for Cody's achievements that we're getting anything out of them.

There is a very real element that the high quality players just aren't there, but even if they're not, a top manager would get the best out of them or at least have them hurling with some sense of purpose and gameplan beyond hit and hope.

Final note. We've played, league and championship, 7 games this year. We've lost 4, each time to a side who, on the day, played an extra man back. Cody doesnt know how to handle the sweeper, and that's three in a row that a Davy Fitz side has completely shut down Kilkenny with a sweeper too.

The big questions now for me is, is this management team capable of sorting this out? I genuinely have my doubts.

Dionysis

brookville wrote: »

Firstly congrats to wexford the best team won and in fairness our lads fought it out to the very end and could of got a late goal to draw it.Bolger should of turned to his left an goaled his chance

While I agree we'll have to go back to basics and some of the defending was criminal yesterday but our forwards yesterday minus colin just weren't good enough and hasn't being during the league
Gers touch wasn't in and bolger tried hard but showed his inexperience with his goal chance
It's a very very long road now win 4 matches to get to the final I don't fancy our chances tbh

Chris Bolger may have missed a chance or two but he was interested and showed drive. Couldn't fault him.
Aylward and Bolger have a drive about them at least. There are others there only making up the numbers. And if you were at the U21 game versus Dublin, you'd see that a number of these names didnt do it that night either.
John Donnelly Thomastown who was sitting with the panel should be tried.
Also, how is the best of the u-21s against Dublin Billy Ryan not on that panel.

Cornerback1

Where do we go from here?
I said before we needed to have plan for Murphy, Wexford's sweeper and we didn't. At this level now, we needed a plan and didn't and should have been beat by at least 10pts

Cornerback1

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

Never stoop to giving out abuse to players on the street. You've lost it.

Go and lie down for an hour.

brookville

Dionysis wrote: »

Chris Bolger may have missed a chance or two but he was interested and showed drive. Couldn't fault him.
Aylward and Bolger have a drive about them at least. There are others there only making up the numbers. And if you were at the U21 game versus Dublin, you'd see that a number of these names didnt do it that night either.
John Donnelly Thomastown who was sitting with the panel should be tried.
Also, how is the best of the u-21s against Dublin Billy Ryan not on that panel.

I agree bout bolger and ger they'll attack at least,fierce disappointed with wally.Richie hogan has done little training the last few weeks with back trouble.

Topcat32

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Where do we go from here?
I said before we needed to have plan for Murphy, Wexford's sweeper and we didn't. At this level now, we needed a plan and didn't and should have been beat by at least 10pts

That is a difficult question, it really is an excercise in rescuing the season now, id bring Jason Cleere into the team at centre back, put Padraig and Cillian as the half backs, have a full back line of Paul Murphy, Joyce and Fogarty, hopefully get Mick fennelly in at midfield, maybe bring Bolger into forwards, at least he runs about a bit, wont win an all Ireland but should give most teams a good game.

jelutong

No hurler goes on the pitch with the intention of playing badly. Shame on anyone who abuses players on the street or on forums such as this. When I see Richie Hogan,one the finest hurlers I've ever seen being slagged off by one or two people here it makes me wonder. Eaten bread is soon forgotten and all that.

droppingball

Topcat32 wrote: »

That is a difficult question, it really is an excercise in rescuing the season now, id bring Jason Cleere into the team at centre back, put Padraig and Cillian as the half backs, have a full back line of Paul Murphy, Joyce and Fogarty, hopefully get Mick fennelly in at midfield, maybe bring Bolger into forwards, at least he runs about a bit, wont win an all Ireland but should give most teams a good game.

Exactly my thoughts, fogarty would add a tigerish corner back, and three hurlers to offer a spring board in half back line. Aylward fennelly and bolger would be promising inside. Liked how aylward got on ball because bllanchfield struggles to get on ball.

ttowncat

Anyone know when the qualifier draws will be ? And also what weekends would you expect the matches to be on?

unrealtime

We have a half back line of Walsh Joyce and Buckley. What is so wrong about that line? I'm missing something.

Brian017

ttowncat wrote: »

Anyone know when the qualifier draws will be ? And also what weekends would you expect the matches to be on?

I'm guessing Monday June 26th after the Laois/Carlow Prem. Round qualifier. The 1st Round games are down for Sat July 1st and the 2nd round a week later on the 8th

Hitchens

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

.

Classy :rolleyes:

Charlie69

unrealtime wrote: »

We have a half back line of Walsh Joyce and Buckley. What is so wrong about that line? I'm missing something.

Won two out of the last three All-Irelands with that half back line, I have no problem with changing it if it's to improve it... did we improve that line with the changes??. I know we had problems in other areas but robbing Peter to pay Paul has only resulted in weakening the team even further.

droppingball

That is a great half back line, but Joyce was solid last night and Buckley was great so I would go with Murphy Joyce fogarty, Walsh, Buckley, cleere in that order

I feel we need Joyce for full just a pity he didn't get the league there.

Hogan did a completely different warm up to rest of players as far as I could see, the body needs a break from what we are seeing.

Don't think Joyce o Shea and Lennon can all play together due to pace. 2 of them at the worst but I would only have Joyce. There was times last night that Lennon and o Shea went sideways and not driving out which is criminal given their size.