Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Dionysis

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Do you ever listen to yourself?

The question I'd ask you is, do you ever listen to yourself. Communist joe Stalin we have here. There shall be only your opinion is it? Get a grip of yourself, and open your mind. No everyone thinks your way.
O'Shea not a starting player in an all Ireland.
Robert Lennon - none as a starting player in an all Ireland final, did he ever play in a final winning side.
Fogarty has two as a starting player.
Lester has none as a starting player, did he even come on in a game.
Aylward has one medal
Paddy deegan has none, not a starting player in an all Ireland
Bolger has none
Richie Reid has none
Kevin Kelly has none as a starting player, did he ever win a medal where he played?
Blanchfield - none again.
Joey Holden has two, one as a starting player, one as a sub in the replay.

Not exactly an we'll experienced winning side.

Realt Dearg Sec

I'm sure they've got nothing compared to your record. Best of luck with abusing them in the street anyway, keep doing your part.

Dionysis

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'm sure they've got nothing compared to your record. Best of luck with abusing them in the street anyway, keep doing your part.

You keep trying to side track from the point made earlier regarding the experience level of the players that were on the pitch, and abusing those who make points you don't agree with. The whole idea of this forum is different opinions, but I see that presents a challenge for you. I shall expect another retort side tracking again from the point being made.

brookville

This place has being hopping since last saturday night.a lot of things have being said and a lot of people are disappointed with the performance last week including myself but what can we do going forward?we're not finished yet hopefully we'll c a kick in the next match.I was told the players were back sunday morning dunno if it's true or not but last Saturday is gone we'll have to park that and move on..where did we lose the match last wknd?we drove some terrible wides in the 1st half and missed a few great goal chances but if we're all honest wexford were the better team on the night
If we can avoid tipp or the losers of sunday 1st hopefully we can get things back on track
I'm sure management and players had a meeting to clear the air and c where did it go wrong.
Hopefully the u21 give a good performance next Wednesdays night maybe one or two of them have something to offer in the next few weeks

Realt Dearg Sec

Dionysis wrote: »

You keep trying to side track from the point made earlier regarding the experience level of the players that were on the pitch, and abusing those who make points you don't agree with. The whole idea of this forum is different opinions, but I see that presents a challenge for you. I shall expect another retort side tracking again from the point being made.

I'm going to ignore the stuff about differing opinions and the idea that I abuse people who make points I disagree with. I'll let other users decide whether they think that's fair criticism.

But what is the point made earlier regarding the experience level of the players that were on the pitch?

The post you wrote that I was replying to said this:
"I'll follow the team no matter what, however you say what this team have given us.....allowing that of those that were playing.... only a few of the them have more than one all-Ireland medal as a player or any at all, I'd say they haven't done as much as you would think.

That team you talk about are gone, the majority of this team are new."

Your point *seems* to be that the players that are there now haven't given us anything that we need to be particularly grateful for (you were disagreeing with dubcat who had said we should be). To back up that point you note that only a few of them have more than one All-Ireland medal as player! I mean, can you see why that is a disingenuous thing to say? In Wexford they've made gods for 20 years out of a team with one All-Ireland. But a team where most of the players have at least one, but "only a few have more than one" is not good enough for you, and as far as your concerned they "haven't done as much as you would think".

Now you can say I'm Joseph Stalin (wtf?) or whatever, but those are your words. Coupled with your argument that these players should be approached in the street by people and told how bad they are, it all just paints a picture of total entitlement on your part. I'm pretty sure dubcat's point was that these players put in absolutely massive effort to achieve what they have achieved (and one All Ireland is a massive achievement), and to even get where they are requires a level of talent and commitment most of us can only dream of. I know expectations in Kilkenny are high, but the whole tone of your posts seems to be that these players aren't meeting your demands, that somehow you, and we, deserve better.

We're all disappointed with the result last week, but we don't DESERVE anything whatsoever, we can hope for better, we can row in ourselves in whatever capacity to help in the longer term. But I just don't see how complaining that they haven't done anything for me lately, and telling them off in the streets (as though they have the slightest respect for the opinion of random strangers in the street, or as if they themselves were happy enough to have lost) contributes anything positive whatsoever.

citykat

Village87 wrote: »

Feile on to this weekend should be a joy to watch we are hosting Craughwell later, who are the favs to win ?

What 'Village' are you from? The Boro are hosting Craughwell.

Dionysis

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'm going to ignore the stuff about differing opinions and the idea that I abuse people who make points I disagree with. I'll let other users decide whether they think that's fair criticism.

But what is the point made earlier regarding the experience level of the players that were on the pitch?

The post you wrote that I was replying to said this:
"I'll follow the team no matter what, however you say what this team have given us.....allowing that of those that were playing.... only a few of the them have more than one all-Ireland medal as a player or any at all, I'd say they haven't done as much as you would think.

That team you talk about are gone, the majority of this team are new."



Your point *seems* to be that the players that are there now haven't given us anything that we need to be particularly grateful for (you were disagreeing with dubcat who had said we should be). To back up that point you note that only a few of them have more than one All-Ireland medal as player! I mean, can you see why that is a disingenuous thing to say? In Wexford they've made gods for 20 years out of a team with one All-Ireland. But a team where most of the players have at least one, but "only a few have more than one" is not good enough for you, and as far as your concerned they "haven't done as much as you would think".

Now you can say I'm Joseph Stalin (wtf?) or whatever, but those are your words. Coupled with your argument that these players should be approached in the street by people and told how bad they are, it all just paints a picture of total entitlement on your part. I'm pretty sure dubcat's point was that these players put in absolutely massive effort to achieve what they have achieved (and one All Ireland is a massive achievement), and to even get where they are requires a level of talent and commitment most of us can only dream of. I know expectations in Kilkenny are high, but the whole tone of your posts seems to be that these players aren't meeting your demands, that somehow you, and we, deserve better.

We're all disappointed with the result last week, but we don't DESERVE anything whatsoever, we can hope for better, we can row in ourselves in whatever capacity to help in the longer term. But I just don't see how complaining that they haven't done anything for me lately, and telling them off in the streets (as though they have the slightest respect for the opinion of random strangers in the street, or as if they themselves were happy enough to have lost) contributes anything positive whatsoever.

We'll stick to the point so it's easier to understand... paraphrasing....a point was made that this team owe us nothing, or kk owe us nothing. My response was along the vein that this is a new team, not the team of a life time that went before i.e. 06-14, look at there experience/medal haul, a lot of them have won one or less all-irelands. That doesn't put them in a place above commenting on their performance.
And the performance by many of those players who played last weekend was shocking and iit is my opinion that they are not above knowing it, and from what I heard, it pales to what the selectors thought. Going from a place of favourites to win the all-Ireland last year to 8/1 and fifth favourite. That is a shocking fall from grace in 12 months and cannot be explained by Larkin and Jackie retiring, and is definitely worth commenting on. Kk have won a minor in 08, lost one in 09, won it in 10, lost a semi final after a sending off in 13, won the all Ireland in 14, lost the semi due to a lack of composure and a square ball, to Galway in 15, all of which have highlighted that yes, kk are producing underage talent through the development system, but are being cast to the wind after that or are not putting it in at U21 level, which can be seen by their hammering by wexford in 14 and 15, plus a loss to Westmeath in 16. So the players are there, are being created so yes ill comment on why we are not winning by all Ireland's, it is a joke, the hard yards (from 9-18yrs) has already been done.

If Wexford are happy with that level of success/ performance good for them, and if that's the case could explain in some way why kk have 36 all-irelands and Wexford have 6. I doubt they would be though. As with everyone else my comments are not above commenting on but will be made, the thread is about kk hurling so I'll stick to their exploits and not comment on my own as is your want.
Back to the point, this team is made up of a lot of players that have not distinguished themselves such that they are above our criticism, and if you were there last Saturday night, and seen Codys disgust/dismay at his players (lack of honesty of effort; genuineness and will to give their all) in front of you, you'd think the same.

Charlie69

Did you really think the players were lacking in honesty of effort or the will to give their all though???... or do you think they might just have been beaten by a better team???

Mulbert

Charlie69 wrote:

Did you really think the players were lacking in honesty of effort or the will to give their all???... or do you think they might just have been beaten by a better team???

Exactly, sometimes teams have a bad day, things go wrong, etc and your beaten. That's it


Looking in on this thread the reaction is totally Ott. Lads looking for people to abuse players on the street. Wtf!

You wouldn't even read it on the Waterford thread. And that says a lot!

Dionysis

Mulbert wrote: »

Exactly, sometimes teams have a bad day, things go wrong, etc and your beaten. That's it


Looking in on this thread the reaction is totally Ott. Lads looking for people to abuse players on the street. Wtf!

You wouldn't even read it on the Waterford thread. And that says a lot!

Firstly nobody suggested abusing players on the street, unless you are.
Secondly, do you think that having talented talented players will win you 8 all irelands in 10 years. Ahh no, it certainly won't. More than anything it takes commitment and obsessive drive and work rate which is a not just a preserve of the talented player.
The KK team that won the all Ireland in 2015 was the worst team to win it talent wise, in his tenure and Loughnane was right ehrn he said that they were functional. However what they also were was absolutely committed. That commitment coupled with the structure that Cody brings won that all Ireland. The team was like the Man Utd team at the end of the Ferguson era, winning on commitment and honesty of effort.

Cody went bizerk on the sideline at the Wexford game and was livid with his players. Was it a bad day..... did they have the same bad day against Clare and Waterford in the league, against Wexford in the league, and again Wexford in the championship? Did they what? Do you honestly think that this team had a bad day against Wexford ?
All of the ex county players especially Larkin have commented on the lack of effort/commitment of the players during the game and even before it. Do you have an issue with Larkin?

Mulbert

Dionysis wrote:

Firstly nobody suggested abusing players on the street, unless you are. Secondly, do you think that having talented talented players will win you 8 all irelands in 10 years. Ahh no, it certainly won't. More than anything it takes commitment and obsessive drive and work rate which is a not just a preserve of the talented player. The KK team that won the all Ireland in 2015 was the worst team to win it talent wise, in his tenure and Loughnane was right ehrn he said that they were functional. However what they also were was absolutely committed. That commitment coupled with the structure that Cody brings won that all Ireland. The team was like the Man Utd team at the end of the Ferguson era, winning on commitment and honesty of effort.

Dionysis wrote:

Cody went bizerk on the sideline at the Wexford game and was livid with his players. Was it a bad day..... did they have the same bad day against Clare and Waterford in the league, against Wexford in the league, and again Wexford in the championship? Did they what? Do you honestly think that this team had a bad day against Wexford ? All of the ex county players especially Larkin have commented on the lack of effort/commitment of the players during the game and even before it. Do you have an issue with Larkin?

That's a legendary rant. Wow!

The White Feather

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Dionysis wrote: »

Firstly nobody suggested abusing players on the street, unless you are.

Sorry now but you were the one who suggested it!

I'm sure you were just frustrated about the result though as I don't think anyone would really go ahead and do it.We all get annoyed with a loss

Dionysis

The White Feather wrote: »

Sorry now but you were the one who suggested it!

I'm sure you were just frustrated about the result though as I don't think anyone would really go ahead and do it.We all get annoyed with a loss

Please show where I said 'abuse players' players or even said 'abuse' or are they your words?

Dionysis

Mulbert wrote: »

That's a legendary rant. Wow!

Were you at the game? Or is it another arm chair supporter we have here demeaning comments made from those at the game, and what they actually saw occur in. Front of them.
A rant is what in you mind? Someone who rites something you're not happy with?
You have two quotations taken above, why?
Are you saying that Larkin did not comment on the players commitment?
Are you saying that 2015 AI win was won not won by the teams sheer drive more than talented ability?
Or are you saying that Cody was not going bezerk on the side line?
For those of us who were at it, it was very clear to all, Codys frustrations with his team.
Are you one of the many on here saying that all will be fine, their great when I feel it's obvious as the day is long that it's not, and a large proportion of that side are not and have not been for awhile.
If you choose to to keep your comments to a positive slant, that's your right, however what's not your right is to demene those that don't wish to take an everything is awesome, when it comes to kk, standpoint.

Noddy33

John Power somewhat surprisingly dropped himself off the panel during the week. He wasn't everybody's cup of tea and it certainly didn't help the constant comparisons with the outrageously talented brother Richie but John was a lad who always gave it 100% for kk and I will be forever grateful for what he done in the replay final in 2014!! He still relatively young so perhaps if he can go back to club and find some form and get the enjoyment back into his hurling then there no reason why he can't wear the black dress amber again down the line.No matter what happens all the best to him and thanks

Dionysis

Noddy33 wrote: »

John Power somewhat surprisingly dropped himself off the panel during the week. He wasn't everybody's cup of tea and it certainly didn't help the constant comparisons with the outrageously talented brother Richie but John was a lad who always gave it 100% for kk and I will be forever grateful for what he done in the replay final in 2014!! He still relatively young so perhaps if he can go back to club and find some form and get the enjoyment back into his hurling then there no reason why he can't wear the black dress amber again down the line.No matter what happens all the best to him and thanks

Would agree whole heartedly and would have even more respect for the man as he feels that he can't give 100% or is not getting 100% out of himself for reasons unknown to us, iand took it upon himself to make the decision. And there is no doubt that not only did he have a talent, but on the field he had a lot of his brothers ability to read a game.

unrealtime

Posters are regularly abused on this site. That is a fact. Some people cannot make a point without dishing out personal abuse. Ignore it of course is the right response.

Martin567

Dionysis wrote: »

Please show where I said 'abuse players' players or even said 'abuse' or are they your words?

If I see one of the players who played poorly last Saturday walking down the street, should I walk up to him and tell him he was useless and a disgrace?

That is what you recommended. Those are your words. If I were to do that, would that not constitute abuse?

tbiggertycome

WARNING: Incredibly long and rambling post, Sorry!!

For me there are a few things that contributed to last Saturdays result. I want to say first though that Wexford were fully deserving of their win and if we replayed the match in our current state the result would likely have been the same or worse for us. I wish Wexford the best and hope they win some silverware this year because Davy's way of training and the style of play that he demands has so far been proven to be less and less successful the more years players play under it.

Back to us I think there are two main elements to why we lost and in the manner we did, one is the management this year and the others is the players obviously.

I don't think the management gave this group a fair chance of winning last Saturday. Yes in years gone by when Cody had a team packed with legends, leaders and experience he could name a different team most days and they probably would have gone out and won. We don't have those players anymore and wishing them back is not going to happen. Comparing most of our current players to those guys is unfair and unrealistic. If Cody had a more settled team with these lads having the chance to get used to those playing around them, I believe we would have seen a more cohesive performance and one that could have won the game. Instead we saw talented players playing like a bunch of individuals because they weren't used to playing with those around them particularly in defence.
The way I see it Cody has 3 issues.
1 He doesn't know his best team
2 He has lost fate in some players
3 He has no on-field leaders
1. I tackled this above he's chopping and changing the team and lads can't get used to their teammates, hence you see simple passes going astray. When a lad is under pressure and he catches a glimse of a teammate moving off him but he's not used that lads movement and he put's it where he would be but thats not where his teammate goes and a ball is lost or makes possession very hard to secure.
2 Since the AI last year Cody seems to have lost fate in a lot of our defensive players in particular. Yes we got destroyed in the AI in the backs but I don't think it can all be placed on the FB line or even the players. Either way Joey, Shane and Joyce have been given very little time this year maybe their confidence is shot and their not doing it in training I don't know but I was talking to one of the panel who is amazed Joey isn't been given a run even if it's in the corner, as he's hurling well.
3 The great thing for Cody from 06 to 15 was he always had plenty of players who were leaders. The guys who should be the leaders now don't seem to be doing it or doing it enough. Michael Fennelly, Eoin Murphy and Richie Hogan to a lesser extent are the leaders from what I've seen, we need more than that. Guys like Paul Murphy, Kieran Joyce, Cillian Buckley, Conor Fogarty, Padraig Walsh, TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Walter Walsh should all be leaders. They should not be afraid to make a change on the field or hold your team mates to account and order them to do what needs to be done to win. These guys have had JJ, Tommy, Henry, Jackie, Larks, Hogie etc bossing them around for years. It's time they woke up and realised they are the experienced guys who need to drive on the rest and each other. One of Codys greatest achievements was he was always able to turn guys into leaders or more accurately draw that innate ability out of them. He did this by making guys mentally tough usually by dropping them after a poor display a guy could spend a month in the wilderness or he could spend a couple of years out there. invariably when that guy came back in, he came back because he had hardened mentally and forced the door back open for himself. Plenty of skillful hurlers never came back and fell by the wayside, if you didn't have the drive and that mental toughness you weren't Kilkenny material in Codys eyes.

I'm almost definitely giving Cody to much credit here, but is he currently playing lads all over the place and not playing lads you'd expect, to challenge them and see will they bounce back and become the new leaders? I'm not sure but as another poster suggested we're in a 2004-05 type situation and this doesn't mean Cody and management don't want to win and aren't trying for the AI but are they also testing some of the players to try and see who has the mettle, while building and knowing we might have a tough time this year and next.

There is no doubt Cody was frustrated on Saturday show me any Kilkenny hurling man who wasn't but a lot of it was his own doing.

The one thing I can't justify and get my head around is why he delayed naming the team so long it made us look weak like we weren't sure what team to play against Wexford.

I don't think anyone here has rated the players from Saturday so here's my attempt.

Eoin Murphy- 7 -good overall would like to see him vary his puckouts a bit more though.
Paul Murphy- 5 -not the Paul Murphy we all know and love, touch was terrible, fielding was worse and didn't impact the game the way he can. Think his confidence has taken a wallop since the AI, playing him CB for the league I don't think helped his confidence.
Kieran Joyce- 7 -I thought did ok considering what was around him think he should stay at FB
Conor O'Shea- 4 -A guy i know can hurl and hurl well but his touch was terrible and was in the wrong position so many times a terrible day at the office
Conor Fogarty- 6 -Did ok without lighting it up was solid but not dominating as a spare man should
Cillian Buckley- 8 -as good as he could be with how the game went, would like to see him stay at CB
Robbie Lennon- 6 -I don't think he was as bad as some have said on here but he was far from spectacular and dominant he doesn't appear to have enough pace either.
Lester Ryan- 7 -worked hard and got a few points but could have been better
Paddy Deegan- 6 -I don't think he is a midfielder, I much prefer him on the HB line preferably at 7, he was very in and out of the game. The one thing he gives in spades though is effort.
Richie Hogan- 5 -not even a pale shadow of the Richie we know. If he was injured he shouldn't have played, never really got into the game. I know he gave up the teaching last year and tried his hand at a project which I don't think worked out for him unfortunately. I wonder if that is playing on his mind.
TJ Reid- 8 -was good in open play and with a more settled attack could have caused real damage excellent penalties.
P Walsh- 5 -not ready from what we saw and shouldn't have been playing but to haul him off, just after he started getting into the game for me was unfair.
Walter Walsh- 4 -worst I've seen him play for Kilkenny did not look interested and I hope as one poster said he was carrying an injury was true because if not I'd drop him to the bench.
Colin Fennelly- 8 -was excellent all day when the ball went into him was a real pain in the FB's ar** and was unlucky not to get more scores/frees
Ger Aylward- 6 -was playing well when he was playing but was too involved in off the ball and late stuff. Was unfortunate with his shots but he'll improve, just needs to calm down a bit.
Liam Blanchfield- 5 -was very ineffectual you would hardly know he came on.
Chris Bolger- 6 -tried hard and was unlucky not to get two goals a bit more composure next time and they'll be in the net.
Kevin Kelly- 5 -tried hard but ultimately ineffective
Richie Reid- -not on long enough to rate but how Hogan stayed on to the 68 minute I don't know. definitely a strange decision to throw him in ahead of Jonjo.

My team for the next day assuming all fit and based on what I've seen so far
E Murphy
P Murphy K Joyce J Holden/C Delaney
P Walsh C Buckley J Cleere
M Fennelly C Fogarty
R Hogan TJ Reid R Leahy
G Ayward C Fennelly C Bolger

adrian522

Great post. I'd heard mick may still not be back for a qualifier. I'm not sure Richie is fit either, we are not doing him any favours playing him if he is not 100%.

What is the story with Leahy, is he back training?

A lot will obviosuly depend on the draw on Monday.

unrealtime

Maybe RDS would have the respect to read my posts before allegedly commenting on what I actually wrote. He attributes comments to me that were never made. He does that a lot on the site - changing the import of comments and then indulging in sneers and jeers. Get a life.

Realt Dearg Sec

unrealtime wrote: »

He attributes comments to me that were never made. He does that a lot on the site -

If I misattributed any comments to you I apologise. Could you point out where I did it, I just want to be clear on where that happened.

tbiggertycome

adrian522 wrote: »

Great post. I'd heard mick may still not be back for a qualifier. I'm not sure Richie is fit either, we are not doing him any favours playing him if he is not 100%.

What is the story with Leahy, is he back training?

A lot will obviosuly depend on the draw on Monday.

Yeah haven't heard much about M Fennelly but from the bit I have heard I'd say he'll be in contention if he doesn't have any further set backs. It's always tough after a long lay off to come back and get straight up to speed, other muscles which have been compensating while they were injured often end up with little niggly injuries.

Would definitely agree with you in regard to Richie if he's injured don't play him. Give other lads a go, simple as.

Not sure about Leahy either but we know he's been struggling with his hammy before now so it may still be at him.

I thought the draw isn't until Monday the 26th?

Realt Dearg Sec

tbiggertycome wrote: »

adrian522 wrote: »

Great post. I'd heard mick may still not be back for a qualifier. I'm not sure Richie is fit either, we are not doing him any favours playing him if he is not 100%.

What is the story with Leahy, is he back training?

A lot will obviosuly depend on the draw on Monday.

Yeah haven't heard much about M Fennelly but from the bit I have heard I'd say he'll be in contention if he doesn't have any further set backs. It's always tough after a long lay off to come back and get straight up to speed, other muscles which have been compensating while they were injured often end up with little niggly injuries.

Would definitely agree with you in regard to Richie if he's injured don't play him. Give other lads a go, simple as.

Not sure about Leahy either but we know he's been struggling with his hammy before now so it may still be at him.

I thought the draw isn't until Monday the 26th?

I would worry that if Mick does come back we are all placing too much expectation on him either way, something like what happened to ger aylward, who was really meant to be the saviour up front (and DEFINITELY should have gotten more time to find his feet, but anyway).

My impression was also that the draw was Monday week. My dad seems to think it's this Monday though.

adrian522

I thought it was this monday but I could be wrong.

Brian017

I've read it was the 26th after the Preliminary Qualifier between Carlow and Laois

dubcat51

tbiggertycome wrote: »

WARNING: Incredibly long and rambling post, Sorry!!

For me there are a few things that contributed to last Saturdays result. I want to say first though that Wexford were fully deserving of their win and if we replayed the match in our current state the result would likely have been the same or worse for us. I wish Wexford the best and hope they win some silverware this year because Davy's way of training and the style of play that he demands has so far been proven to be less and less successful the more years players play under it.

Back to us I think there are two main elements to why we lost and in the manner we did, one is the management this year and the others is the players obviously.

I don't think the management gave this group a fair chance of winning last Saturday. Yes in years gone by when Cody had a team packed with legends, leaders and experience he could name a different team most days and they probably would have gone out and won. We don't have those players anymore and wishing them back is not going to happen. Comparing most of our current players to those guys is unfair and unrealistic. If Cody had a more settled team with these lads having the chance to get used to those playing around them, I believe we would have seen a more cohesive performance and one that could have won the game. Instead we saw talented players playing like a bunch of individuals because they weren't used to playing with those around them particularly in defence.
The way I see it Cody has 3 issues.
1 He doesn't know his best team
2 He has lost fate in some players
3 He has no on-field leaders
1. I tackled this above he's chopping and changing the team and lads can't get used to their teammates, hence you see simple passes going astray. When a lad is under pressure and he catches a glimse of a teammate moving off him but he's not used that lads movement and he put's it where he would be but thats not where his teammate goes and a ball is lost or makes possession very hard to secure.
2 Since the AI last year Cody seems to have lost fate in a lot of our defensive players in particular. Yes we got destroyed in the AI in the backs but I don't think it can all be placed on the FB line or even the players. Either way Joey, Shane and Joyce have been given very little time this year maybe their confidence is shot and their not doing it in training I don't know but I was talking to one of the panel who is amazed Joey isn't been given a run even if it's in the corner, as he's hurling well.
3 The great thing for Cody from 06 to 15 was he always had plenty of players who were leaders. The guys who should be the leaders now don't seem to be doing it or doing it enough. Michael Fennelly, Eoin Murphy and Richie Hogan to a lesser extent are the leaders from what I've seen, we need more than that. Guys like Paul Murphy, Kieran Joyce, Cillian Buckley, Conor Fogarty, Padraig Walsh, TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Walter Walsh should all be leaders. They should not be afraid to make a change on the field or hold your team mates to account and order them to do what needs to be done to win. These guys have had JJ, Tommy, Henry, Jackie, Larks, Hogie etc bossing them around for years. It's time they woke up and realised they are the experienced guys who need to drive on the rest and each other. One of Codys greatest achievements was he was always able to turn guys into leaders or more accurately draw that innate ability out of them. He did this by making guys mentally tough usually by dropping them after a poor display a guy could spend a month in the wilderness or he could spend a couple of years out there. invariably when that guy came back in, he came back because he had hardened mentally and forced the door back open for himself. Plenty of skillful hurlers never came back and fell by the wayside, if you didn't have the drive and that mental toughness you weren't Kilkenny material in Codys eyes.

I'm almost definitely giving Cody to much credit here, but is he currently playing lads all over the place and not playing lads you'd expect, to challenge them and see will they bounce back and become the new leaders? I'm not sure but as another poster suggested we're in a 2004-05 type situation and this doesn't mean Cody and management don't want to win and aren't trying for the AI but are they also testing some of the players to try and see who has the mettle, while building and knowing we might have a tough time this year and next.

There is no doubt Cody was frustrated on Saturday show me any Kilkenny hurling man who wasn't but a lot of it was his own doing.

The one thing I can't justify and get my head around is why he delayed naming the team so long it made us look weak like we weren't sure what team to play against Wexford.

I don't think anyone here has rated the players from Saturday so here's my attempt.

Eoin Murphy- 7 -good overall would like to see him vary his puckouts a bit more though.
Paul Murphy- 5 -not the Paul Murphy we all know and love, touch was terrible, fielding was worse and didn't impact the game the way he can. Think his confidence has taken a wallop since the AI, playing him CB for the league I don't think helped his confidence.
Kieran Joyce- 7 -I thought did ok considering what was around him think he should stay at FB
Conor O'Shea- 4 -A guy i know can hurl and hurl well but his touch was terrible and was in the wrong position so many times a terrible day at the office
Conor Fogarty- 6 -Did ok without lighting it up was solid but not dominating as a spare man should
Cillian Buckley- 8 -as good as he could be with how the game went, would like to see him stay at CB
Robbie Lennon- 6 -I don't think he was as bad as some have said on here but he was far from spectacular and dominant he doesn't appear to have enough pace either.
Lester Ryan- 7 -worked hard and got a few points but could have been better
Paddy Deegan- 6 -I don't think he is a midfielder, I much prefer him on the HB line preferably at 7, he was very in and out of the game. The one thing he gives in spades though is effort.
Richie Hogan- 5 -not even a pale shadow of the Richie we know. If he was injured he shouldn't have played, never really got into the game. I know he gave up the teaching last year and tried his hand at a project which I don't think worked out for him unfortunately. I wonder if that is playing on his mind.
TJ Reid- 8 -was good in open play and with a more settled attack could have caused real damage excellent penalties.
P Walsh- 5 -not ready from what we saw and shouldn't have been playing but to haul him off, just after he started getting into the game for me was unfair.
Walter Walsh- 4 -worst I've seen him play for Kilkenny did not look interested and I hope as one poster said he was carrying an injury was true because if not I'd drop him to the bench.
Colin Fennelly- 8 -was excellent all day when the ball went into him was a real pain in the FB's ar** and was unlucky not to get more scores/frees
Ger Aylward- 6 -was playing well when he was playing but was too involved in off the ball and late stuff. Was unfortunate with his shots but he'll improve, just needs to calm down a bit.
Liam Blanchfield- 5 -was very ineffectual you would hardly know he came on.
Chris Bolger- 6 -tried hard and was unlucky not to get two goals a bit more composure next time and they'll be in the net.
Kevin Kelly- 5 -tried hard but ultimately ineffective
Richie Reid- -not on long enough to rate but how Hogan stayed on to the 68 minute I don't know. definitely a strange decision to throw him in ahead of Jonjo.

My team for the next day assuming all fit and based on what I've seen so far
E Murphy
P Murphy K Joyce J Holden/C Delaney
P Walsh C Buckley J Cleere
M Fennelly C Fogarty
R Hogan TJ Reid R Leahy
G Ayward C Fennelly C Bolger

Great post agree with team for next day.

Cornerback1

Monday 19 June

SFC Qualifier Round 2A
 

Monday 26 June

SFC Qualifier Round 2B

SHC Qualifier Round 1
 

Monday 3 July

SFC Qualifier Round 3A

SHC Qualifiers Round 2
 

Monday 10 July

SFC Qualifier Round 3B

SFC Qualifier Round 4A

SHC Quarter-finals

usualstripes

My team for the next day assuming all fit and based on what I've seen so far
E Murphy
P Murphy K Joyce J Holden/C Delaney
P Walsh C Buckley J Cleere
M Fennelly C Fogarty
R Hogan TJ Reid R Leahy
G Ayward C Fennelly C Bolger[/quote]

As previously stated all being fit for the 1st round of qualifiers the team I would have out would be very similar with the exception of Fogarty moving back to corner back and walter moving to midfield.
Conor delaney, joe lyng, paddy deegan, lester Ryan and Billy ryan all with a chance of coming in to make an impact but I guarantee this team would be a math for anyone on their day.

brookville

Noddy33 wrote: »

John Power somewhat surprisingly dropped himself off the panel during the week. He wasn't everybody's cup of tea and it certainly didn't help the constant comparisons with the outrageously talented brother Richie but John was a lad who always gave it 100% for kk and I will be forever grateful for what he done in the replay final in 2014!! He still relatively young so perhaps if he can go back to club and find some form and get the enjoyment back into his hurling then there no reason why he can't wear the black dress amber again down the line.No matter what happens all the best to him and thanks

Dissapointing if true definitely has the ability but he hasn't kicked on the way padraig,cillian or wally who were all on the u21 team defeated by clare.

blackcard

An extremely poor Kilkenny u17 team were well beaten by Dublin. The skillset of some of the players was shocking

dubcat51

Really disapointing result as winners play antrim so final should await for dubs.lets hope the minors can beat the dubs in leinster final.

dobbs2210

dubcat51 wrote: »

Really disapointing result as winners play antrim so final should await for dubs.lets hope the minors can beat the dubs in leinster final.

Not surprising given who is manager of this Kilkenny squad....!!

unrealtime

Under 17s can blow hot and cold. Let's see how under21s go (and minor).

dastardly00

So, it'll be either Tipp, Waterford, Limerick or Westmeath/Laois/Carlow.

wats the craic

dastardly00 wrote: »

So, it'll be either Tipp, Cork, Limerick or Westmeath/Laois/Carlow.

it wont be cork anyway

Realt Dearg Sec

unrealtime wrote: »

Under 17s can blow hot and cold. Let's see how under21s go (and minor).

Hi unrealtime, just wondering if you've had a chance yet to dig out where I attributed comments to you that were never made. Like I said, I'm happy enough to apologise if I did, but I'd appreciate being told when this was.

Regarding cork, I'm glad they won today, I think our backs would be badly exposed by the pace and intelligent use of space their forwards were showing, think we'd be humbled pretty seriously.

Stopitwillya

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Not surprising given who is manager of this Kilkenny squad....!!

Who is the manager?

dubcat51

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Hi unrealtime, just wondering if you've had a chance yet to dig out where I attributed comments to you that were never made. Like I said, I'm happy enough to apologise if I did, but I'd appreciate being told when this was.

Regarding cork, I'm glad they won today, I think our backs would be badly exposed by the pace and intelligent use of space their forwards were showing, think we'd be humbled pretty seriously.

Cant agree they would embarass us.waterford were very flat today.

Realt Dearg Sec

dubcat51 wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Hi unrealtime, just wondering if you've had a chance yet to dig out where I attributed comments to you that were never made. Like I said, I'm happy enough to apologise if I did, but I'd appreciate being told when this was.

Regarding cork, I'm glad they won today, I think our backs would be badly exposed by the pace and intelligent use of space their forwards were showing, think we'd be humbled pretty seriously.

Cant agree they would embarass us.waterford were very flat today.

They were poor enough alright but I just think cork are strong in the exact right places to exploit our weaknesses, especially in terms of sluggishness and tendency to get turned. If we had a second half back like Buckley we might be better set up.

Philip82

I hope Brian was looking at the quality of ball the cork lads were feeding the forwards with today and the last day to be fair. Its unbelievable the difference it makes to even the most average of a forward. No hail mary shots from the half back line bombing in with snow on em for da burca to mop up, instead the diagonal ball hopping in front of the running forward, now he suddenly has a 90/10 chance of beating his man by makimg space and shooting or be fouled as he is already moving. Sounds simple yet so many teams (and kk prob the worst offenders) insisist on sledging in high ball to an inside forward line thats overcrowded and incapable of winning high ball. I wrote this because i think Cork are a decent team but no better or worse than our own lads but the technique they have goes back to simple intelligent Hurling.

One more thing John Mullane is writing all week that teams are hoping to draw kilkenny in the qualifiers to get a decent win under their belt, i hope someone had the brains to stick it on the wall in nowlan Park, i know we could do with a little fire in the bellyðŸ˜ðŸ˜

dubcat51

Philip82 wrote: »

I hope Brian was looking at the quality of ball the cork lads were feeding the forwards with today and the last day to be fair. Its unbelievable the difference it makes to even the most average of a forward. No hail mary shots from the half back line bombing in with snow on em for da burca to mop up, instead the diagonal ball hopping in front of the running forward, now he suddenly has a 90/10 chance of beating his man by makimg space and shooting or be fouled as he is already moving. Sounds simple yet so many teams (and kk prob the worst offenders) insisist on sledging in high ball to an inside forward line thats overcrowded and incapable of winning high ball. I wrote this because i think Cork are a decent team but no better or worse than our own lads but the technique they have goes back to simple intelligent Hurling.

One more thing John Mullane is writing all week that teams are hoping to draw kilkenny in the qualifiers to get a decent win under their belt, i hope someone had the brains to stick it on the wall in nowlan Park, i know we could do with a little fire in the bellyðŸ˜ðŸ˜

Well he really doesnt like us at all.maybe waterford are one of those teams he was talking about.
.

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Hi unrealtime, just wondering if you've had a chance yet to dig out where I attributed comments to you that were never made. Like I said, I'm happy enough to apologise if I did, but I'd appreciate being told when this was.

You'll be waiting! It's what he does, likes to pull statements from his arse and as soon as he is challenged just ignores it :rolleyes:

citykat

There was an AI won by a Kilkenny team today. Dicksboro won the Hurling Feile defeating Sixmilebridge in the final. The last Kilkenny team to win it was the loughs in 2011. Boro won it previously in 2009. The village of course are the most successful feile club in the country.

citykat

Philip82 wrote: »

One more thing John Mullane is writing all week that teams are hoping to draw kilkenny in the qualifiers to get a decent win under their belt, i hope someone had the brains to stick it on the wall in nowlan Park, i know we could do with a little fire in the bellyðŸ˜ðŸ˜

Aw come on. Nobody takes Mullane seriously. He's a clown pure and simple.

Philip82

citykat wrote: »

Aw come on. Nobody takes Mullane seriously. He's a clown pure and simple.

Lol well cut his name out so. You know what i mean by it though

Realt Dearg Sec

citykat wrote: »

There was an AI won by a Kilkenny team today. Dicksboro won the Hurling Feile defeating Sixmilebridge in the final. The last Kilkenny team to win it was the loughs in 2011. Boro won it previously in 2009. The village of course are the most successful feile club in the country.

Heard it was a very comprehensive win as well, congratulations to everyone involved and their families, great stuff.

Cornerback1

Philip82 wrote: »

I hope Brian was looking at the quality of ball the cork lads were feeding the forwards with today and the last day to be fair. Its unbelievable the difference it makes to even the most average of a forward. No hail mary shots from the half back line bombing in with snow on em for da burca to mop up, instead the diagonal ball hopping in front of the running forward, now he suddenly has a 90/10 chance of beating his man by makimg space and shooting or be fouled as he is already moving. Sounds simple yet so many teams (and kk prob the worst offenders) insisist on sledging in high ball to an inside forward line thats overcrowded and incapable of winning high ball. I wrote this because i think Cork are a decent team but no better or worse than our own lads but the technique they have goes back to simple intelligent Hurling.

One more thing John Mullane is writing all week that teams are hoping to draw kilkenny in the qualifiers to get a decent win under their belt, i hope someone had the brains to stick it on the wall in nowlan Park, i know we could do with a little fire in the bellyðŸ˜ðŸ˜

You'd think lads would talk among themselves - backs and forwards with the forwards saying to drop the ball bouncing in front of them. Surely them must have these conversations??

Or is it pressure being put on the backs and any clearance is a good clearance?

Forwards need to be more vocal at training etc. to say - this is a good ball in, to the advantage of the forward especially if the forwards are sharp and pacy.

Surely these conversations must be going on.

dzer2

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Not surprising given who is manager of this Kilkenny squad....!!

5 o to 8 of the best hurlers at this age in the county no where near the panel

usualstripes

dzer2 wrote: »

5 o to 8 of the best hurlers at this age in the county no where near the panel

Who are the 5-8 of the best hurlers at this age and why are they nowhere near the anel?