Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Topcat32

Perhaps its understandable but there seems to be a pit of panic setting in with Kilkenny supporters

Village87 wrote: »

Nothing on the u21 last to make a breakthrough for the seniors this year Leahy sticks head and shoulders above anyone else on the field, he is our only hope, depressing stuff.. Donnelly is strong and skillful but hard to see him lasting the pace of championship matches in Thurlus and Croker, looks very one paced

Village87 wrote: »

Nothing on the u21 last to make a breakthrough for the seniors this year Leahy sticks head and shoulders above anyone else on the field, he is our only hope, depressing stuff.. Donnelly is strong and skillful but hard to see him lasting the pace of championship matches in Thurlus and Croker, looks very one paced

So there is nothing to make the breakthrough apart from Leahy or nothing to make the breakthrough?

Topcat32

I thought it was an ok performance from the team last night considering that Jason Cleere and Blanchfield were poor.
Conor Delaney, Pat Lyng, Richie Leahy should be close to starting for the seniors in addition to Cleere and Blanchfield. Sean Morrissey should be on the match day panel. I think Mullen, Scanlon, Tommy Walsh, Ryan, Donnelly are good prospects but need a lot of work physically to get them up to senior intercounty level. Mullen in particular looks very light but is possibly the most natural hurler in the backs that Kilkenny under 21s have.
Its interesting that there has been so much talk about under 14 squads with reference to the level of skill of the team last night, people seem to have forgotten that many of these players won a minor all Ireland 3 years ago playing very good hurling in the semi-final and final.

usualstripes

Topcat32 wrote: »

Perhaps its understandable but there seems to be a pit of panic setting in with Kilkenny supporters


So there is nothing to make the breakthrough apart from Leahy or nothing to make the breakthrough?

Leahy, lyng, donnelly, cleere, delaney, Tommy walsh will make it. How they progress at senior championship level we will see but they have to be given a chance

babyjesus14

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Just on this....

'send their three best players'.....

This seems to be the way that county development squads are picked up and down the country.

My guess is that (I) this is system is open to abuse; how often is the mentors kid one of the three best players and (ii) you could have a kid who is brilliant at one thing; but not necessarily one of the three best players. For example we have a young kid in the club - not a great tackler, needs more physicality in his game - but he does one thing brilliantly compared to all the rest - which is when he has a shot on goal, he always makes the right choice - go for goal or go for point; and if he goes for goal he almost always puts the ball in the right spot. That's a presence of mind that none of the other kids have. But overall he's not one of the three best players; and he probably wouldn't be one that would be picked for any trial.

Now stepping back from that, whats the message here.

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.

Wouldn't claim for a minute that the system is bomb proof and have no doubt it's been abused by certain people. But the three player per club is not a set in stone rule. Last year a young lad from a club in south Kilkenny who was new to the parish wasn't part of the initial three sent into the under 14's but after the club played a couple of league matches they realised this young lad might have something and contacted the manager of the south group who said to send to the next session. The chap ended up making the team.. he has since moved back to Dublin so that turned out to be a waste of money!:D

In fairness one thing BC couldn't be accused of is being ageist, we have had Shane Prendergast(29) and JJ Farrell(28) make their Championship debuts in the last two seasons. TJ and Richie were only one of probably 90 players looked at when they first joined the squads, if you think they're are 28 year olds out there that are being missed name them because i can't say i know of any.

Noddy33

Shaky nervous performance but think thats understandable given what happened last year so management and players will be glad to just come away with victory but better shooting from Westmeath and it could have been a different story. Interesting to see Michael Lawlor from Conahy Shamrocks a teacher based in Mullingar working as the Westmeath team trainer and fair play to him as he had the WM players well drilled.


Brennan-will be dissappointed with the goal and thought he could have varied the puck outs better but still a fantastic keeper in the making.
Cody- Solid without being spectacular. Similar to Cleere goes on these ranging(does the same for club) solo runs up the field with very little end product but he is a great athlete but should stick to his defensive duties more.
Delaney-Played well and clear his lines when required. Like to see him be used in senior set up more
Burke- Started well but gave away three bad frees and was suprised he wasnt hauled off straight away after the 3rd free as he was already on a yellow card
Doheny- Was the spare man and picked up alot of ball but made poor use of possession
Cleere- Does some great things but follows up with some real poor things. Needs to tidy up on the basics of CB position but when in full flow is a joy to watch
T Walsh- reasonable performance but still waiting for him to explode on the scene and deliver on the potential he showed at underage
Lyng- Worked his socks off and got two great scores
Scanlon- Real clever player. Needs to stay injury free as he is crucial link player for the team
Murphy-Was good on the frees and got his goal but if Im honest I was expecting more
Donnelly-His second score was fantastic score. He made alot of hooks and blocks but also left a couple of scores out there.Genuinely think he could be a good ball winning option for the seniors 
Morrissey- Was very impressed with him
S Walsh- Will be dissappointed as didnt have a great game. Will struggle to hold place on team when injured players return
Blanchfield-Just not happening for him. Looked a bit suprised to be taken off. Is he just over hurled and in need of  a break
Ryan- Far better when he out the field when he can open up the  legs and run at defenders. Himself and Murphy should have been swapped early in the game in my opinion
Subs-Kenny showed well when he came on. Leahy is just a class act. Hamstring seemed to be holding up well so hopefully bodes well for seniors as I think he has to start in the qualifiers game if fully fit

babyjesus14

Topcat32 wrote: »

I thought it was an ok performance from the team last night considering that Jason Cleere and Blanchfield were poor.
Conor Delaney, Pat Lyng, Richie Leahy should be close to starting for the seniors in addition to Cleere and Blanchfield. Sean Morrissey should be on the match day panel. I think Mullen, Scanlon, Tommy Walsh, Ryan, Donnelly are good prospects but need a lot of work physically to get them up to senior intercounty level. Mullen in particular looks very light but is possibly the most natural hurler in the backs that Kilkenny under 21s have.
Its interesting that there has been so much talk about under 14 squads with reference to the level of skill of the team last night, people seem to have forgotten that many of these players won a minor all Ireland 3 years ago playing very good hurling in the semi-final and final.

Completely agree with you about Darren Mullen, an absolutely super hurler. Unfortunately Darren seems to be the same height and weight at 19 as he was when he first came on my radar as a 15 year old.

mountgomery burns

Village87 wrote: »

Pick the best players to play, obviously not been done. Kilkenny cant have gotten to that bad a standard over night

But it didn't happen overnight. 5 years ago Kilkenny got hammered by Galway,
and they still bounced back to win 3 all irelands to their eternal credit but in that time they have since lost to Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Wexford and drawn with Galway x2,Dublin, Waterford x2 and Tipp. Thats 11 games in those 6 years thay they did not win, compared to the previous 6 years where they won 5/6 all irelands with only 1 game lost.

They were never going to maintain the standard, nobody could, and even though its taken a long time to finally come right back into "the pack", that happened last September.

Mankbag

Village87 wrote: »

I agree with your point and see how you came to make it however it is easier said than done. Some of these guys may have lost interest or let themselves go. It also takes a few years to reach peak standard which may have surpassed a 28 year old in terms of fitness, body building, conditioning etc. It was done in the past but it was an exception rather than the rule.

Pick the best players to play, obviously not been done. Kilkenny cant have gotten to that bad a standard over night[/QUOTE]

Great idea to pick the best players. I'm amazed that Cody hasn't thought of it. You really should have a word with him.

Out of interest, who do you consider these "best players" to be?

Comerman

Did John Power drop himself from the squad?

babyjesus14

Comerman wrote: »

Did John Power drop himself from the squad?

Apparently so.

Topcat32

mountgomery burns wrote: »

But it didn't happen overnight. 5 years ago Kilkenny got hammered by Galway,
and they still bounced back to win 3 all irelands to their eternal credit but in that time they have since lost to Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Wexford and drawn with Galway x2,Dublin, Waterford x2 and Tipp. Thats 11 games in those 6 years thay they did not win, compared to the previous 6 years where they won 5/6 all irelands with only 1 game lost.

They were never going to maintain the standard, nobody could, and even though its taken a long time to finally come right back into "the pack", that happened last September.

Its a fair point and I certainly can't remember a county who has lost so many class intercounty players to retirement over a 4 to 5 year period, certainly not a county that has been challenging for all irelands over that time, reaching 3 all irelands in a row winning 2 of them would be a lot of counties dream come true. Even in the one that we lost by a lot we werent completely out of it until the last 15 to 20 minutes.

dastardly00

The latest article from Jackie is a great read.
He talks about that match against Tipp.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-there-is-one-game-in-my-career-i-will-never-forget-1.3129683

Village87

Jackie writes a very good article for the Times every Friday, goes into great detail on the mental aspect leading up to a game.

jeff bingham

He had a great one awhile ago about his mental preparation in the week leading to an all Ireland final,Not sure if it was mentioned here.
Richie Power also has a decent weekly column on a Wednesday I think with RTE sport

tbiggertycome

Again the amount of pessimism and running players down on here was hard to read on Wednesday night and Thursday and eventually we had some posters a bit more reasoned.

I don't understand why so many want to run down players? I don't think they should be above criticism or anything and there were a lot of poor performances in the first half but most players redeemed themselves with a much stronger showing in the second half. Coming out with sweeping statements that this or that lad "will never make it" or "isn't up to the standard". These are young guys trying to find their feet at senior and U21 intercounty level. Personally I think 16 of the U21 panel have what it takes to eventually play senior for us. Will they all? They definitely won't thing happen injury beer girls jobs etc but many of them will and a good lot of them will become very good players for us over the next few years.

There're a few reasons I feel the performances in first half the other night weren't what we all hoped we'd see.

1. Westmeath - were very physical, as is their right and they had belief from last year and they tore into us without fear. Their intensity caused us problems as any very intense display will cause any team problems.

2. Nerves - Our lads whether they realise it or not, would have been nervous to some degree after last years horrific display and niggling thought of it being repeated in the back of their mind. They would have been anxious and I think this led to a lot of the poor first touches in the first half.

3. Seniors - There're 8 of our lads in with the seniors which leads to less time for the U21s to train together as a cohesive unit and could have led to some of the poor decisions and passes given in the game.


From what I heard about the halftime, a few of the lads said a few words etc.. until Richie Doyle couldn't take it anymore and he tore into them, he questioned them and queried their desire to actually win this one. I believe this woke them up and they snapped out of it, we saw a different team in the second half. I would be unhappy with the first half and pleased with the second half over all. If you told be before this game that we'd beat them by 10 points and miss another 2 gilt edge goal chances I would have been very happy.

Give these lads time and don't be so quick to throw them on the compost heap intercounty hurling a lot of them will suprise you and come good.

68deville

Topcat32 wrote: »

Its a fair point and I certainly can't remember a county who has lost so many class intercounty players to retirement over a 4 to 5 year period, certainly not a county that has been challenging for all irelands over that time, reaching 3 all irelands in a row winning 2 of them would be a lot of counties dream come true. Even in the one that we lost by a lot we werent completely out of it until the last 15 to 20 minutes.

The Offaly team of the 90s who had some serious hurlers and we're always
Contenders for Liam and winners in that same decade suffered the same fate
From 99 onwards when the Dooleys, Troy,kinahan pilkington and Hanamy all
Called time on their careers in a short period of time

letowski

Pundit Arena are reporting Mick Fennelly has suffered aa set back with his achilles injury. Did he not play a club game recently? Could be his intercounty days are numbered as a serious achilles injury is no joke, he may have to think about his health long term.

He has probably been the best midfielder since the turn of the century, Kilkenny could do with him back fit.

dastardly00

letowski wrote: »

Pundit Arena are reporting Mick Fennelly has suffered aa set back with his achilles injury. Did he not play a club game recently? Could be his intercounty days are numbered as a serious achilles injury is no joke, he may have to think about his health long term.

He has probably been the best midfielder since the turn of the century, Kilkenny could do with him back fit.

That's pretty laughable from Pundit Arena ... because it's not exactly 'hot off the press' news. The Indo, Times et al. reported about Mick's injury three days ago!

Anyway, to answer your query letowski, Mick played a club game a few weeks before the Wexford match, but got injured in the week of the match.

His days were numbered a few years ago unfortunately due to the seriousness of his back-related injuries. He's my favourite player, but for his sake, I wish he would retire

usualstripes

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Again the amount of pessimism and running players down on here was hard to read on Wednesday night and Thursday and eventually we had some posters a bit more reasoned.

I don't understand why so many want to run down players? I don't think they should be above criticism or anything and there were a lot of poor performances in the first half but most players redeemed themselves with a much stronger showing in the second half. Coming out with sweeping statements that this or that lad "will never make it" or "isn't up to the standard". These are young guys trying to find their feet at senior and U21 intercounty level. Personally I think 16 of the U21 panel have what it takes to eventually play senior for us. Will they all? They definitely won't thing happen injury beer girls jobs etc but many of them will and a good lot of them will become very good players for us over the next few years.

There're a few reasons I feel the performances in first half the other night weren't what we all hoped we'd see.

1. Westmeath - were very physical, as is their right and they had belief from last year and they tore into us without fear. Their intensity caused us problems as any very intense display will cause any team problems.

2. Nerves - Our lads whether they realise it or not, would have been nervous to some degree after last years horrific display and niggling thought of it being repeated in the back of their mind. They would have been anxious and I think this led to a lot of the poor first touches in the first half.

3. Seniors - There're 8 of our lads in with the seniors which leads to less time for the U21s to train together as a cohesive unit and could have led to some of the poor decisions and passes given in the game.


From what I heard about the halftime, a few of the lads said a few words etc.. until Richie Doyle couldn't take it anymore and he tore into them, he questioned them and queried their desire to actually win this one. I believe this woke them up and they snapped out of it, we saw a different team in the second half. I would be unhappy with the first half and pleased with the second half over all. If you told be before this game that we'd beat them by 10 points and miss another 2 gilt edge goal chances I would have been very happy.

Give these lads time and don't be so quick to throw them on the compost heap intercounty hurling a lot of them will suprise you and come good.

Decent post.
Everyone that posts here knows we have had incredible success over the last 16 years. Because we have had serious players who continued for years and won all Irelands we don't have any right to assume we will beat all before us.
Put that westmeath team up against limerick, tipp or wexford and they would account for themselves well.
Yes they missed a lot of scores but if we can get over the line v wexford it gives us great momentum and this will translate to the senior set up.
We will know our opponents for the qualifiers monday and it's win or bust from there.
I understand mick fennelly probably won't start but there is a chance he will play some part.
Leahys form and recovery from injury will also help our cause.
If we could just structure our defensive lines correctly as below give us every chance.

Murphy
Murphy
Joyce
Fogarty
Padraig
Cleere
Buckley
Lester
Deegan
Walter
TJ
Leahy
Aylward
Colin
Hogan

Mick fennelly, bolger, Billy ryan could all get game time and a possible inclusion of donnelly.
Richie hogan and walter could be moved out at different times around midfield.

Dionysis

A guy from Cork who knows his hurling said to me that he was surprised with the U-21 KK team that played Dublin and Westmeath and said that we'll be down at senior level for awhile. He was surprised with the poor touch they had. He's seen them in both games and commented that limerick Tipp Clare or Galway would take the easily enough but didn't know enough about Wexford. I was a bit surprised as i would have thought that the ability is in the players but that the management, drive of the players and general desire to win is lacking in that side. This guy rightly called Cork having a dry period from as far back as early 00's as he coached underage and could see nothing coming through.

Which leads me to think, are we wishfully glossing over significant problems at underage in KK and making by these U-21s out to be better players than they actually are?

Dionysis

usualstripes wrote: »

Decent post.
Everyone that posts here knows we have had incredible success over the last 16 years. Because we have had serious players who continued for years and won all Irelands we don't have any right to assume we will beat all before us.
Put that westmeath team up against limerick, tipp or wexford and they would account for themselves well.
Yes they missed a lot of scores but if we can get over the line v wexford it gives us great momentum and this will translate to the senior set up.
We will know our opponents for the qualifiers monday and it's win or bust from there.
I understand mick fennelly probably won't start but there is a chance he will play some part.
Leahys form and recovery from injury will also help our cause.
If we could just structure our defensive lines correctly as below give us every chance.

Murphy
Murphy
Joyce
Fogarty
Padraig
Cleere
Buckley
Lester
Deegan
Walter
TJ
Leahy
Aylward
Colin
Hogan

Mick fennelly, bolger, Billy ryan could all get game time and a possible inclusion of donnelly.
Richie hogan and walter could be moved out at different times around midfield.

I think that it would be better to have Holden in full
Back or wingback/ centre back, and put Fogarty back into midfield, than to go with combat nation of Lester and Deegan as our midfield.
Wally and Fogarty midfield for me.


Not sure that Cleere is good enough and strong enough to play centre back. Was average last Wednesday night.

From midfield I'd go
Fogarty
Wally
Donnelly
TJ Reid
Hogan
Aylward
Fennelly
Bolger

If it's Tipp we play I'd put Donnelly on P Maher and tell him to not let P Maher catch the ball. Hurl up and tap down to the ground. Make Maher hurl off the ground, or run backwards to collect it. That's the way to beat him.

usualstripes

Dionysis wrote: »

I think that it would be better to have Holden in full
Back or wingback/ centre back, and put Fogarty back into midfield, than to go with combat nation of Lester and Deegan as our midfield.

Holden could go in full, and leave joyce out in the corner which would leave Fogarty out to midfield instead of deegan. Or he could go centre back, leave joyce in full and cleere in the corner but I don't think that will happen. Confidence is key here. The lads will be up against it but it's up to themselves to show they can drive on. The big leaders we had are gone but others gave the opportunity to take their place

babyjesus14

Dionysis wrote: »

A guy from Cork who knows his hurling said to me that he was surprised with the U-21 KK team that played Dublin and Westmeath and said that we'll be down at senior level for awhile. He was surprised with the poor touch they had. He's seen them in both games and commented that limerick Tipp Clare or Galway would take the easily enough but didn't know enough about Wexford. I was a bit surprised as i would have thought that the ability is in the players but that the management, drive of the players and general desire to win is lacking in that side. This guy rightly called Cork having a dry period from as far back as early 00's as he coached underage and could see nothing coming through.

Which leads me to think, are we wishfully glossing over significant problems at underage in KK and making by these U-21s out to be better players than they actually are?

The Tipp team that got hockeyed by Limerick on Thursday night?! I'd have my doubts but only time will tell how good this Kilkenny Under 21 team are! And a Muster man bigging up Munster teams and hurling... God that's unusual!:rolleyes:

brookville

If we can avoid waterford/tipp first we might be able get the show back on the road.we have to get the team set up properly.I'd leave Joyce at full back and put padraig back in the backs hopefully his recovered from injury.Hogan has to be a concern as well. I'd expect cody to make a few changes I was impressed with delaney the other night he looked assured
Team I'd like to c presuming mick fennelly is out
Murphy
Murphy,joyce,delaney
Padraig,Buckley,fogarty
Leahy,lester
Wally,hogan,tj
Ger,colin,bolger
There's still the bones of a good team there if everyone was fit but that's the thing everyone's not fit and some are struggling for form and injuries
I think we'll definitely see changes and someone like John donnelly or scanlon could be drafted in or maybe joey or pender brought back.
Despite what people think I'd be very surprised if anyone wants to meet kk monday morning

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

The Tipp team that got hockeyed by Limerick on Thursday night?! I'd have my doubts but only time will tell how good this Kilkenny Under 21 team are! And a Muster man bigging up Munster teams and hurling... God that's unusual!:rolleyes:

Agreed as I know the Boro beat that Tipp U21 team in a challenge earlier this year without a most of the Boros intercounty players from senior and U21. That Tipp U21 team was very weak this year (also very young). As was said on here earlier this year the Kilkenny U21 team beat them out the gate in a challenge match during the league.

I think a lot posters on here are being very hard on this group. I think they will improve as they gain confidence and if they get over Wexford & most likely Aintrim, I wouldn't have any fears for them in an AI final. They may not win it but they will make the winners earn it if they don't win it. This is a talented bunch who will hopefully give us a good supply into the seniors over the next year or two and help right the ship going forward.

tbiggertycome

From the hurling ranking thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057160431&page=26

Thanks to the "HurlingRanker"

Week ending June 18th 2017

Position, previous, change, Team, Points
1st (1) = Galway 8841
2nd (2) = Tipperary 8699
3rd (6) +3 Cork 8581
4th (3) -1 Kilkenny 8535
5th (5) = Clare 8511
6th (4) -2 Waterford 8412
7th (7) = Wexford 8300
8th (8) = Dublin 8055
9th (9) = Limerick 7942
10th (10) = Offaly 7216
11th (11) = Laois 7159
12th (12) = Carlow 6750
13th (13) = Kerry 6731
14th (14) = Westmeath 6646
15th (15) = Antrim 6326
16th (16) = Meath 6296
17th (17) = Wicklow 5883
18th (18) = Kildare 5814
19th (19) = Down 5775
20th (20) = London 5635
21st (21) = Derry 5375
22nd (22) = Mayo 5336
23rd (23) = Armagh 5061
24th (24) = Roscommon 4673
25th (25) = Donegal 4402
26th (26) = Tyrone 4342
27th (27) = Monaghan 4041
28th (28) = Longford 3612
29th (29) = Warwickshire 3568
30th (30) = Louth 3554
31st (31) = Sligo 3060
32nd (32) = Leitrim 2883
33rd (33) = Cavan 2485
34th (34) = Lancashire 2479
35th (35) = Fermanagh 2371


So in the draw on Monday we being 4th in the rankings are up against either the 2nd, 6th, 9th & 11th or 12th best teams in the country.
The Munster teams have to face the 4th, 8th, 10th and 14th. These rankings are always fairly accurate and I think if we're focused and can get a bit of team cohesion in the 3 weeks break we've had we can take any of thew 4 teams in the draw if we're like we were against Wexford again I'd only fancy us against Laois or Carlow.

dubcat51

usualstripes wrote: »

Decent post.
Everyone that posts here knows we have had incredible success over the last 16 years. Because we have had serious players who continued for years and won all Irelands we don't have any right to assume we will beat all before us.
Put that westmeath team up against limerick, tipp or wexford and they would account for themselves well.
Yes they missed a lot of scores but if we can get over the line v wexford it gives us great momentum and this will translate to the senior set up.
We will know our opponents for the qualifiers monday and it's win or bust from there.
I understand mick fennelly probably won't start but there is a chance he will play some part.
Leahys form and recovery from injury will also help our cause.
If we could just structure our defensive lines correctly as below give us every chance.

Murphy
Murphy
Joyce
Fogarty
Padraig
Cleere
Buckley
Lester
Deegan
Walter
TJ
Leahy
Aylward
Colin
Hogan

Mick fennelly, bolger, Billy ryan could all get game time and a possible inclusion of donnelly.
Richie hogan and walter could be moved out at different times around midfield.

Deegan witth lester would leave us short on pace in midfield.I would go back to last years team with 2 changes,bolger and awlyard for blach and kelly.
Murphy
Murphy
Joey
Pender
Padraig
Joyce
Buckley
Fogary
Mick/ ollie walsh
Walter
Richie
Tj
Ger
Colin
Bolger.

Topcat32

Dionysis wrote: »

A guy from Cork who knows his hurling said to me that he was surprised with the U-21 KK team that played Dublin and Westmeath and said that we'll be down at senior level for awhile. He was surprised with the poor touch they had. He's seen them in both games and commented that limerick Tipp Clare or Galway would take the easily enough but didn't know enough about Wexford. I was a bit surprised as i would have thought that the ability is in the players but that the management, drive of the players and general desire to win is lacking in that side. This guy rightly called Cork having a dry period from as far back as early 00's as he coached underage and could see nothing coming through.

Which leads me to think, are we wishfully glossing over significant problems at underage in KK and making by these U-21s out to be better players than they actually are?

Did the guy from Cork know who won minor 3 years ago and could easily won it again 2 years ago. But then again if the guy is from Cork he must know what he is talking about, I didnt see any problems with the touch of the Kilkenny team against Westmeath, what I did see was a home team of a county which had targeted the match as one of their biggest games of the year put their bodies on the line more than the Kilkenny team did, how for example he thinks Clare have a good under 21 team this year is a bit of a mystery to me.

randd1

On the underage debate..

My uncle coaches and has coached U14 for a few years now with his local club.

He said to me the players are there across the county, the enthusiasm is there, and the skill is definitely there.

But the problem he faces the most is matches. He maintains due to development squads and schools teams, the underage clubs aren't getting any games.

With lads going to development squads, schools games, county games, there's no other games for clubs than a few challenge matches, and clubs are unwilling to play without their better players. He said to me they're lucky if they get 10 games a year at any age group. And because some lads aren't getting games, they're giving up.

He reckons the development system is fine, but that a blitz league based on North/Central/South divisional format where clubs are re-assigned on geographical layout should be brought into the county. We'd be talking 3 14/16 team leagues for young lads to play independently from county, schools and development squads.

The blitz scenario would be if you had a team that has 25 lads available, 15 start, the other 10 come on an play the second half.

He reckons it would keep lads hurling and compliment the development squads by keeping lads in competitive matches to develop naturally, and more importantly, balance out the number of games between the regular club players and development squads/county/schools players.

Dionysis

Topcat32 wrote: »

Did the guy from Cork know who won minor 3 years ago and could easily won it again 2 years ago. But then again if the guy is from Cork he must know what he is talking about, I didnt see any problems with the touch of the Kilkenny team against Westmeath, what I did see was a home team of a county which had targeted the match as one of their biggest games of the year put their bodies on the line more than the Kilkenny team did, how for example he thinks Clare have a good under 21 team this year is a bit of a mystery to me.

I think your missing his point, on what he saw he didn't rate us, which is understandable considering we have been poor twice in the two games we've played. I know we won, but we have not set down a marker for other sides to be wary about. And when you struggle against Westmeath questions are going to be asked. Regarding having won the minor in 2014 and getting to the semi in 2015, KK won the minor in 08, lost final on 09 and won in 2010. What did those minor teams win at U21 level?
I would agree with you as I said regarding talent, but the performances now over the past two games has other counties thinking that this KK side has not much too it. He's entitled to his opinion as you are, and to be fair he going on what he's seeing today, you're going on what happened years ago. The proof will be in the performances, let's see how we do against Wexford.

Dionysis

dubcat51 wrote: »

Deegan witth lester would leave us short on pace in midfield.I would go back to last years team with 2 changes,bolger and awlyard for blach and kelly.
Murphy
Murphy
Joey
Pender
Padraig
Joyce
Buckley
Fogary
Mick/ ollie walsh
Walter
Richie
Tj
Ger
Colin
Bolger.

E Murphy
P Murphy
Holden
Cleere/ Prendergast
Walsh
Joyce
Buckley
Fogarty
Wally ( Mick Fennelly is gone and should be discounted when picking a side you cannot rely on him being there)
Donnelly ( still think that we need to develop this lad asap, we need someone in the forwards who can catch a ball aside from TJ).
TJ Reid
R Hogan
Aylward
Fennelly
Bolger

Subs
Kevin Kelly
M Bergin
R Leahy
P Lyng
L Ryan
Joe Lyng
Deegan
Cleere or Prendergast
O'Shea
Lennon
Fennelly

To be fair we might not rate last years side but they were better (esp in the backs) than this years, with the newcomers.

usualstripes

Dionysis wrote: »

E Murphy
P Murphy
Holden
Cleere/ Prendergast
Walsh
Joyce
Buckley
Fogarty
Wally ( Mick Fennelly is gone and should be discounted when picking a side you cannot rely on him being there)
Donnelly ( still think that we need to develop this lad asap, we need someone in the forwards who can catch a ball aside from TJ).
TJ Reid
R Hogan
Aylward
Fennelly
Bolger

Subs
Kevin Kelly
M Bergin
R Leahy
P Lyng
L Ryan
Joe Lyng
Deegan
Cleere or Prendergast
O'Shea
Lennon
Fennelly

To be fair we might not rate last years side but they were better (esp in the backs) than this years, with the newcomers.

I agree re fennelly but if he can make it a some stage what a boost that would be.
I think leahy will drive on from last week and could feature at either midfield or half forward.
Donnelly certainly worth the punt and not forgetting billy ryan, albeit he wasn't in top form last week

babyjesus14

Dionysis wrote: »

I think your missing his point, on what he saw he didn't rate us, which is understandable considering we have been poor twice in the two games we've played. I know we won, but we have not set down a marker for other sides to be wary about. And when you struggle against Westmeath questions are going to be asked. Regarding having won the minor in 2014 and getting to the semi in 2015, KK won the minor in 08, lost final on 09 and won in 2010. What did those minor teams win at U21 level?
I would agree with you as I said regarding talent, but the performances now over the past two games has other counties thinking that this KK side has not much too it. He's entitled to his opinion as you are, and to be fair he going on what he's seeing today, you're going on what happened years ago. The proof will be in the performances, let's see how we do against Wexford.

In fairness the '12 Under 21 lost an All-Ireland final to an outstanding Clare team many whom back boned Clare to a Senior win the following year and were about to embark on a 3-in-a-row in the grade. And the '13 team lost a Leinster Final to Wexford after a goalkeeping error by Aaron Duggan in the last minute.

Pigeon Chaser

Eoin Murphy

Paul Murphy
Kieran Joyce
Joey Holden

Padraig Walsh
Cilllian Buckley
Conor Fogarty

Michael Fennelly (Assuming fit enough)
Kevin Kelly

Walter Walsh
TJ Reid
Richie Hogan

Richie Leahy
Colin Fennelly
Ger Aylward


Play a 2 man full forward line , dropping Leahy to the half forward line.

Drop Richie Hogan back to half back line in a Tadgh De Barca role, act as a sweeper, look up and dictate delivery to our 2 man ff line , which has possibility of being lethal.

Yes, reinstate Joey. He is an all-star and a fine hurler. Got badly exposed in the AIF but has rarely let us down. Even JJ would have been cleaned that day, such was the capitulation of all around him. He was far from the worst.

Finally, I would like to see K.Kelly tried midfield. Has the presence of mind and ability to be able to dictate the play from there. Has never really worked out on the ff line as he doesn't have the acceleration. Good hurling brain.


I don't share the pessimism if most posters here. We hit some very bad wides in Wexford Park, yet still weren't too far away. There is no team I don't think we are capable of beating. We do need positivity. And I think how Cody sets up the team / tactics applied are more important than the personnel

The way I see it is Tipp are out in front, and close behind are the chasing pack of about 6 or 7 all of whom are of similar ability.

Still think we are a good bet @ 10/1 but we need Cody to have them highly motivated and tactics need to be spot on.

Looking forward to the draw tomorrow.

Hope we get them Tipp bastards.

dastardly00

Just thinking that if we get Waterford in the draw tomorrow morning, and they get home advantage, I presume it will be in Walsh Park, so it'll be ridiculously hard to get tickets.

jeff bingham

dastardly00 wrote:

Just thinking that if we get Waterford in the draw tomorrow morning, and they get home advantage, I presume it will be in Walsh Park, so it'll be ridiculously hard to get tickets.

15k roughly is it? Or is there any works going on there?
Looking forward to the draw. Should be interesting

Village87

Limerick, would have took that before hand

WhatsGoingOn2

Kilkenny v Limerick
Dublin v Laois
Offaly v Waterford
Tipp v Westmeath

brookville

Is it at home?

jeff bingham

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote:

Kilkenny v Limerick Dublin v Laois Offaly v Waterford Tipp v Westmeath

Are these all going ahead Saturday evening ya? Will they all be on at same time? Was in work so couldn't concentrate on the draw and what they were saying

dastardly00

jeff bingham wrote: »

Are these all going ahead Saturday evening ya? Will they all be on at same time? Was in work so couldn't concentrate on the draw and what they were saying

The times of the matches won't be confirmed until the CCCCCCCC meet this afternoon.

Most likely will be two matches at 5pm and two at 7pm.

dastardly00

Village87 wrote: »

Limerick, would have took that before hand

Yeah I would have taken Limerick at Nowlan Park also.
It's not going to be easy by any stretch of the imagination, but definitely better than drawing Tipp or Waterford.

usualstripes

dastardly00 wrote: »

Yeah I would have taken Limerick at Nowlan Park also.
It's not going to be easy by any stretch of the imagination, but definitely better than drawing Tipp or Waterford.

Is it confirmed for nowlan park?

Village87

Kilkenny were pulled out first anyway

brookville

Reported on hoganstand website we're at home dunno how reliable that is but my thinking was 1st team out had home advantage

granturismo

brookville wrote: »

Reported on hoganstand website we're at home dunno how reliable that is but my thinking was 1st team out had home advantage

Yes you're right the game will be in Nowlan Park;
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0626/885536-big-guns-avoid-each-other-in-hurling-qualifiers/

kfrp

Happy with the draw, a decent test.

If we can't beat Limerick we don't deserve to go any further in the championship.

Need a few of the team to come back into some form now.

brookville

Look it's going to be a tough match limerick are a decent team.Home advantage will be a help.obviously we'll have to improve considerably from the last performance.Maybe we're better getting limerick than a weaker team.The setup of the team will be vital.we'll have to go back to basics and put lads back in their right positions.hopefully the few injured lads have recovered

Nickindublin

This was the draw I was hoping for. Need a good test but not Waterford or Tipp at this stage.

kk.man

This game will be a benchmark of where we are.