Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

dastardly00

Does anybody know:
Has Mark Bergin played much this year (for OLG)?
Has he been injured?

I know he was named on the match day squad for the last two league games against Dublin and Wexford but that's all I know.

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Mark Bergin would be a big surprise for me after being chosen by his club to be the captain. To then drop himself off the panel in the middle of the year? I don't think he would, unless there's something massively wrong in the camp.

jeff bingham

dastardly00 wrote:

Does anybody know: Has Mark Bergin played much this year (for OLG)? Has he been injured?

He played in the last round of club games and was anonymous. He may have been coming back from the injury he had at start of year tbf

Noddy33

dastardly00 wrote: »

Does anybody know:
Has Mark Bergin played much this year (for OLG)?
Has he been injured?

I know he was named on the match day squad for the last two league games against Dublin and Wexford but that's all I know.

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Mark Bergin would be a big surprise for me after being chosen by his club to be the captain. To then drop himself off the panel in the middle of the year? I don't think he would, unless there's something massively wrong in the camp.

Mark Bergin trained with the panel on Saturday so would be very surprised if he all of a sudden made a call like that on the week of what potentially could be the last game of the season. Didnt hear anything about Jonjo but again for similar reason would be very surprised if true.
Kevin Farrell from the Carrickshock dropped himself off the Under 21 panel last week. I believe he felt he wasnt getting a fair chance so decided to tell the management he wanted out. Then on Sunday just gone in an O'Byrne cup game against the Ballyhale Shamrocks scored 3-15(3-8 from play) while marking Kilkenny Under 21 selector Bob Aylward!!!
Shefflin was also back in action for Ballyhale along with Aidan Cummins

brookville

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin trained with the panel on Saturday so would be very surprised if he all of a sudden made a call like that on the week of what potentially could be the last game of the season. Didnt hear anything about Jonjo but again for similar reason would be very surprised if true.
Kevin Farrell from the Carrickshock dropped himself off the Under 21 panel last week. I believe he felt he wasnt getting a fair chance so decided to tell the management he wanted out. Then on Sunday just gone in an O'Byrne cup game against the Ballyhale Shamrocks scored 3-15(3-8 from play) while marking Kilkenny Under 21 selector Bob Aylward!!!
Shefflin was also back in action for Ballyhale along with Aidan Cummins

I said here weeks ago I was very suprised he wasn't making the u21 panel I think his a good hurler who's improving every year

Realt Dearg Sec

Noddy33 wrote: »

I believe he felt he wasnt getting a fair chance so decided to tell the management he wanted out. Then on Sunday just gone in an O'Byrne cup game against the Ballyhale Shamrocks scored 3-15(3-8 from play) while marking Kilkenny Under 21 selector Bob Aylward!!!

That's one way of making your point alright!

PaulKK

Village87 wrote: »

, Mark Bergin gone aswel i think ?

This is not true.

dastardly00 wrote: »

Does anybody know:
Has Mark Bergin played much this year (for OLG)?
Has he been injured?

Injured most of the league, had an operation on his foot.

oconnol1

Brian Gavin Ref on Saturday.

blackcard

It is going to be a huge 5 to 8 days starting next Saturday at the end of which we could be into a quarter final at Senior level and Leinster Champions at Minor and u21. On the other hand, we could be out of Senior and u21 and going through the back door at Minor level. I think our best shot is at u21 level followed by Minors.

Realt Dearg Sec

We wouldn't be in a quarter final at senior.

But I take your wider point, the margins between things looking good and looking disastrous are pretty thin at the moment.

blackcard

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

We wouldn't be in a quarter final at senior.

But I take your wider point, the margins between things looking good and looking disastrous are pretty thin at the moment.

If we win at senior on Saturday, we are playing the following week. If we win that, we are in a quarter final

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

If we win at senior on Saturday, we are playing the following week. If we win that, we are in a quarter final

One step at a time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brookville

Agreed,1 step at the time it's a big week for our hurlers hopefully the seniors get the ball rolling saturday.I read somewhere the intermediates were playing Galway tomorrow but that must be a mistake because it would of being advertised locally.Best of luck to the seniors,minors and u21s and let's not forget our footballers who had a great win last wknd and are playing their final saturday afternoon

Brian017

brookville wrote: »

Agreed,1 step at the time it's a big week for our hurlers hopefully the seniors get the ball rolling saturday.I read somewhere the intermediates were playing Galway tomorrow but that must be a mistake because it would of being advertised locally.Best of luck to the seniors,minors and u21s and let's not forget our footballers who had a great win last wknd and are playing their final saturday afternoon

Don't forget about the girls who play their 2nd game of the championship on Saturday as a curtain raiser to the senior game!

washman3

oconnol1 wrote: »

Brian Gavin Ref on Saturday.

Game,set and match to Kilkenny so.
If there was ever a glimmer of hope that Limerick may cause a huge shock, this is the final nail in the coffin now. Well documented that he hates Limerick with a passion, and for no apparent reason.

Powerhouse

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Jonjo wouldn't surprise me as he was snubbed badly with the substitution the last day and during the league this year. I talked to him last year and he seemed to have a pretty hectic schedule with his life at that time between teaching, helping on the farm at home, a new baby and hurling constantly. I can see how the last day may have been the straw that broke the camels back but I'd be surprised too as he seemed very driven and dedicated.

So you're keeping an open mind on it?

babyjesus14

washman3 wrote: »

Game,set and match to Kilkenny so.
If there was ever a glimmer of hope that Limerick may cause a huge shock, this is the final nail in the coffin now. Well documented that he hates Limerick with a passion, and for no apparent reason.

Where are these documents?

Village87

Any idea of the team, surely a few lads in line to be replaced, Conor O'Shea,Paul Murphy, Rob Lennon will be doing well to hold there places. Hope to see Richie Leahy, Billy Ryan & maybe John Donnelly start.

bruschi

I always find it odd the level of discussion and rumour about lads on or off the panel on the Kilkenny squad. The whole Ger Aylward thing at the start of the year was really surprising to me, how something so small as an injured player can get turned into being thrown off the panel for disciplinary reasons being banded about and no consequences of the rumours. You'd think for a county as small as Kilkenny that these types of rumours wouldnt get out and would be easily enough clarified by clubmates or people who are properly in the know.

Ceist_Beag

Agreed bruschi, the amount of unsubstantiated rumours on here is quite surprising and I fail to see why posters are so eager to put them out, seemingly without any good evidence in many cases.

greenspurs

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Agreed bruschi, the amount of unsubstantiated rumours on here is quite surprising and I fail to see why posters are so eager to put them out, seemingly without any good evidence in many cases.

People love to be the one with the scoop/news ... Understandable i suppose, but not worth writing when its not true !!

greenspurs

And meanwhile on the Waterford Gaa thread -
They continue to predict "borefest against offaly" ... "no offence to offaly but we should hammer them" ..... Mcgrath out ... DeLaSalle Vs Mt Sion .... Mcgrath is killing the young lads ..... hes ruining hurling ..... This could be our year ... Kilkenny and Tipp arent any good..... Ossie at centre back.... ossie at centre forward .....

And we think we are in a bad place !

dastardly00

dastardly00 wrote: »

Does anybody know:
Has Mark Bergin played much this year (for OLG)?
Has he been injured?

jeff bingham wrote: »

He played in the last round of club games and was anonymous. He may have been coming back from the injury he had at start of year tbf

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin trained with the panel on Saturday so would be very surprised if he all of a sudden made a call like that on the week of what potentially could be the last game of the season.

PaulKK wrote: »

Injured most of the league, had an operation on his foot.

Thanks to those who replied to my query about Mark Bergin.

So...
- He was injured/recovering from an operation during the first quarter of the year
- He was on the match day squad for the last two league games against Dublin and Wexford
- He played in the last round of club games
- He wasn't on the match day squad for the Leinster semi-final against Wexford
- He trained with the panel last week

Was he injured/unfit or what for the Wexford championship match?

tbiggertycome

Powerhouse wrote: »

So you're keeping an open mind on it?

An ould rambling post and I'm continually surprised
I don't get out much, everything is new and supr.... :rolleyes:

tbiggertycome

dastardly00 wrote: »

Thanks to those who replied to my query about Mark Bergin.

So...
- He was injured/recovering from an operation during the first quarter of the year
- He was on the match day squad for the last two league games against Dublin and Wexford
- He played in the last round of club games
- He wasn't on the match day squad for the Leinster semi-final against Wexford
- He trained with the panel last week

Was he injured/unfit or what for the Wexford championship match?

The pattern would suggest he is being afflicted with little niggly injuries after his substantive lay off at the start of the year. This is usual enough for lads coming back from injury, they've modified how they move as a result of the injury and when they go back to normal and they push hard, they can cause other little strains and tears. The fact he didn't make the panel the last day would probably be down to the little time he's had to show how he's going as a result of the injuries or he's injured again! I honestly don't know but thats my best guess.

Comerman

Brian017 wrote:

Don't forget about the girls who play their 2nd game of the championship on Saturday as a curtain raiser to the senior game!

What time is that game starting.

Village87

brookville wrote: »

Agreed,1 step at the time it's a big week for our hurlers hopefully the seniors get the ball rolling saturday.I read somewhere the intermediates were playing Galway tomorrow but that must be a mistake because it would of being advertised locally.Best of luck to the seniors,minors and u21s and let's not forget our footballers who had a great win last wknd and are playing their final saturday afternoon[/

Are the footballers playing before hand too ?

Brian017

Comerman wrote: »

What time is that game starting.

5pm

brookville

Village87 wrote: »

Any idea of the team, surely a few lads in line to be replaced, Conor O'Shea,Paul Murphy, Rob Lennon will be doing well to hold there places. Hope to see Richie Leahy, Billy Ryan & maybe John Donnelly start.
Very little talk of the team but it will be very interesting to see what changes he makes.I heard walsh could be back at 3 so hopefully the few weeks training have brought him on,maybe joyce could be at 4 or 5 or maybe joey will be brought back in.
Whatever happens I think we need a few players to add a bit of freshness to the setup that's why I'd like to see leahy start at mf or hf.
I don't think we can afford to drop lads like murphy,wally or fogarty because we haven't enough strength in depth bit we do need huge performances from them

brookville

Village87 wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

Agreed,1 step at the time it's a big week for our hurlers hopefully the seniors get the ball rolling saturday.I read somewhere the intermediates were playing Galway tomorrow but that must be a mistake because it would of being advertised locally.Best of luck to the seniors,minors and u21s and let's not forget our footballers who had a great win last wknd and are playing their final saturday afternoon[/

Are the footballers playing before hand too ?

No thats away at 4 I think

Hawkeye6

Some amazing posts here over the past few weeks. Some good, some awful and some hilarious. The good, the bad and the ugly. This post could fall into all of those categories. Really interesting discussion for a while on underage hurling which I will return to in the future. The thing that strikes me is there are so many ill informed people posting. If they are Kilkenny GAA fans surely they regularly look at the official Kilkenny GAA website for information and still they ask questions like when is the British Junior Football final between Kilkenny and Warwickshire on. Come on, people must know how to surf and gather official information if they are on here. I would have thought.

Anyway, that is not the point of this post. I wanted to return to my post in the immediate aftermath of the Wexford game where I suggested, in my opinion, the root problem in the 2016 AI final was not in the backs and has not been since. In my opinion, the problem has been in midfield. Hence the loss of Michael Fennelly is really being felt and Michael Rice, Derek Lyng and Cha Fitz before that. I challenge anyone to identify what is the function and requirement of the current Kilkenny midfield setup. Are they attackers, are they defenders, are they both, are thy one of each and what should they be? Most other counties are now using their midfielders like rugby a scrum half and out half, winning breaking ball from the half lines and redistributing it productively. Half lines are no longer trying to catch balls. You will notice that they are spoiling and breaking. Galway and Cork used the tactic to great effect against the Tipperary half back line with Canning and the midfielders mopping up broken possession to feed mobile forwards. Lee Chin is doing something similar for Wexford as is Conor Lehane for Cork. I don’t recall a huge amount of scrimmaging these guys did either, but they certainly got lots of possession.

Do we in Kilkenny have midfielders capable of this role which knits your defensive and attacking units together? Do we have midfielders capable of an alternative game plan which will outwit the current opposition game plan. Over the last number of years, who have been the standout midfielders at club matches? They haven’t really been any. There have been good backs, good forwards and good goalkeepers but midfielders? Clubs have stopped developing midfielders because for a while they became almost redundant blending as a back or a forward. Half forwards were targeted and were winning clean possession. Kilkenny were very good at it. Now the spoiling tactics have stopped the success of that approach. I have watched so many matches lately where one midfielder is at one sideline and the other is at the opposite, with no hope of supporting each other in time and leaving a complete hole down the centre for a defence to be drawn apart and exploited. People are only noticing the last bit, it seems, the full back line. In my day midfielders were the winners of the puckout. That day is long gone, but they still exist on the field and their role needs to be defined. They have to have a purpose, don’t they? A young lad nowadays is either a back or a forward or maybe the odd goalkeeper. Very few lads are being defined as a midfielder in Kilkenny. Yes lads are put there because its tradition, but why???

Even in the U21 match last week how many times were the midfielders seen operating together as a tag team? Many counties have had great individuals, Kilkenny’s success was built on the whole team ethic. In the aftermath of the 2016 AI final, public opinion sent the Kilkenny backs to the slaughter. They wanted the forwards rearranged as well . Read all the posts, put this lad in the forwards, put that lad in the backs. Yet very few have looked at the midfield pairing or how that midfield pairing should work. This is the department that knits it all together.

Have a look at your own club and study the midfielders and the role they are playing and their own interaction. Is it productive or effective? Ask the club mentors who are the standout midfielders in the club, even at underage.

dastardly00

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

If they are Kilkenny GAA fans surely they regularly look at the official Kilkenny GAA website for information and still they ask questions like when is the British Junior Football final between Kilkenny and Warwickshire on. Come on, people must know how to surf and gather official information if they are on here. I would have thought.

I've searched http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/ and it does not have any info on the British Junior Football final. Or else I must be blind then

There is also no info about the camogie match on http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/ or no time/venue info on http://www.kilkennycamogie.com/. Or else I must be blind then

Village87

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Some amazing posts here over the past few weeks. Some good, some awful and some hilarious. The good, the bad and the ugly. This post could fall into all of those categories. Really interesting discussion for a while on underage hurling which I will return to in the future. The thing that strikes me is there are so many ill informed people posting. If they are Kilkenny GAA fans surely they regularly look at the official Kilkenny GAA website for information and still they ask questions like when is the British Junior Football final between Kilkenny and Warwickshire on. Come on, people must know how to surf and gather official information if they are on here. I would have thought.

Anyway, that is not the point of this post. I wanted to return to my post in the immediate aftermath of the Wexford game where I suggested, in my opinion, the root problem in the 2016 AI final was not in the backs and has not been since. In my opinion, the problem has been in midfield. Hence the loss of Michael Fennelly is really being felt and Michael Rice, Derek Lyng and Cha Fitz before that. I challenge anyone to identify what is the function and requirement of the current Kilkenny midfield setup. Are they attackers, are they defenders, are they both, are thy one of each and what should they be? Most other counties are now using their midfielders like rugby a scrum half and out half, winning breaking ball from the half lines and redistributing it productively. Half lines are no longer trying to catch balls. You will notice that they are spoiling and breaking. Galway and Cork used the tactic to great effect against the Tipperary half back line with Canning and the midfielders mopping up broken possession to feed mobile forwards. Lee Chin is doing something similar for Wexford as is Conor Lehane for Cork. I don’t recall a huge amount of scrimmaging these guys did either, but they certainly got lots of possession.

Do we in Kilkenny have midfielders capable of this role which knits your defensive and attacking units together? Do we have midfielders capable of an alternative game plan which will outwit the current opposition game plan. Over the last number of years, who have been the standout midfielders at club matches? They haven’t really been any. There have been good backs, good forwards and good goalkeepers but midfielders? Clubs have stopped developing midfielders because for a while they became almost redundant blending as a back or a forward. Half forwards were targeted and were winning clean possession. Kilkenny were very good at it. Now the spoiling tactics have stopped the success of that approach. I have watched so many matches lately where one midfielder is at one sideline and the other is at the opposite, with no hope of supporting each other in time and leaving a complete hole down the centre for a defence to be drawn apart and exploited. People are only noticing the last bit, it seems, the full back line. In my day midfielders were the winners of the puckout. That day is long gone, but they still exist on the field and their role needs to be defined. They have to have a purpose, don’t they? A young lad nowadays is either a back or a forward or maybe the odd goalkeeper. Very few lads are being defined as a midfielder in Kilkenny. Yes lads are put there because its tradition, but why???

Even in the U21 match last week how many times were the midfielders seen operating together as a tag team? Many counties have had great individuals, Kilkenny’s success was built on the whole team ethic. In the aftermath of the 2016 AI final, public opinion sent the Kilkenny backs to the slaughter. They wanted the forwards rearranged as well . Read all the posts, put this lad in the forwards, put that lad in the backs. Yet very few have looked at the midfield pairing or how that midfield pairing should work. This is the department that knits it all together.

Have a look at your own club and study the midfielders and the role they are playing and their own interaction. Is it productive or effective? Ask the club mentors who are the standout midfielders in the club, even at underage.

Very good point regarding midfielders, i highlighted the lack of performance from Conor Fogarty over the past year, neither skillful or mobile enough out there, when Mick Fennelly went we were cleaned out in midfield in the All Ireland final, I would love to see Cillian Buckley out there full time, speed and athleticism to burn, but we also need him in the backline. Mick Fennelly was powerhorse there. Not so sure on Paddy Deegan yet, good workrate but link up play and skill level of Brendan Maher, David Burke , Jamie Barron not there yet. Richie Leahy is a real option there

Realt Dearg Sec

Good post as always Hawkeye except the thing about Kilkennygaa.ie, it's a desperate website in every way, I avoid it like the plague.

tbiggertycome

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

In my opinion, the problem has been in midfield. Hence the loss of Michael Fennelly is really being felt and Michael Rice, Derek Lyng and Cha Fitz before that. I challenge anyone to identify what is the function and requirement of the current Kilkenny midfield setup. Are they attackers, are they defenders, are they both, are thy one of each and what should they be? Most other counties are now using their midfielders like rugby a scrum half and out half, winning breaking ball from the half lines and redistributing it productively. Half lines are no longer trying to catch balls. You will notice that they are spoiling and breaking. Galway and Cork used the tactic to great effect against the Tipperary half back line with Canning and the midfielders mopping up broken possession to feed mobile forwards. Lee Chin is doing something similar for Wexford as is Conor Lehane for Cork. I don’t recall a huge amount of scrimmaging these guys did either, but they certainly got lots of possession.

Do we in Kilkenny have midfielders capable of this role which knits your defensive and attacking units together? Do we have midfielders capable of an alternative game plan which will outwit the current opposition game plan.

I would agree with you totally but I don't know if it's a Kilkenny only problem. I think there're two types of players used in midfield.
1. Most of the players other counties use in the role you've articulated very well would have started out life in either defence or attack. I think players need to have the following attributes.
-talented hurler comfortable on the ball
-naturally athletic
-hungry for work
-very good vision and reading of the game
-calm under pressure
-ability to make the killer pass
I suppose we have a few lads who can play that role
Richie Hogan, Padraig Walsh, Cillian Buckley, Mark Bergin, Conor Fogarty
Young lads coming through that fit that mold
Kevin Kelly, Richie Leahy, Sean Morrissey, Billy Ryan

The problem with all of the above is their either not ready to be put in midfield for the seniors or their needed in attack or defence and are you robbing Peter to pay Paul. Some of the above played midfield for the county at underage, off the top of my head Buckley, Kelly and Leahy all did and very well too. The other issue with some of these types of players is their either overly attacking or defensively minded and end up doing too much of one or the other and aren't balanced in their midfield play.

2. You have lads that are what I would term a natural midfielders and have played in that position most of their life and don't do as well playing in the forwards or backs. They have all the attributes from above in abundance. I think the players we have like this would be.
Michael Fennelly, Ollie Walsh, Luke Scanlon.

don't get me wrong these guys can play in attack or defence and will acquite themselves capably but they're always most effective at 8 or 9.


Our midfield from the last day missed the ability to create that link.
Lester will give you all the work and is a good hurler but he doesn't spray the ball around as required and can get a bit flustered when under pressure.
Paddy Deegan for me is not the colour of an intercounty midfielder. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good player with loads of potential. He has tonnes of heart and no little skill but I would have him firmly in the half back line driving out of defence, again he doesn't spray the ball around.
I don't think either have the incredible vision or reading of the game to be that super effective link that midfield should be.

Look at where Joe Canning plays on Sunday and the kind of ball he wins or recieves but more importantly the ball he delivers on a plate to the Galway forwards. I know he's not technically playing midfield but he spends a huge amount of time out there as the play maker. Joe and David Burke are destroying teams by David either feeding Joe or supporting him and they have a great understanding and ability to find each other as the surge through defences.

tbiggertycome

Village87 wrote: »

Very good point regarding midfielders, i highlighted the lack of performance from Conor Fogarty over the past year, neither skillful or mobile enough out there, when Mick Fennelly went we were cleaned out in midfield in the All Ireland final, I would love to see Cillian Buckley out there full time, speed and athleticism to burn, but we also need him in the backline.

I wouldn't agree that Conor Fogarty isn't skillful or mobile enough but I would say he is definitely defensively minded, thats not the worst thing. I think Conor was the perfect foil for Mick Fennelly and they complimented each other incredibly well when playing together. Fogarty seems to have struggled to adjust to having different partners with him in midfield and they don't seem to be on the same page which makes Fogarty look bad as he was the one with the high standard for that position coming in. Most on here agreed he was very unlucky/robbed not to get an All Star for midfield in both 2014 & 2015. If anything Fogarty has got stronger and faster but I think a lack of a trusted partner has caused him problems and he has gone back to what he knew. He started playing more defensively to try and stop the ship sinking and eventually Cody has put him in the backs.

Village87

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that Conor Fogarty isn't skillful or mobile enough but I would say he is definitely defensively minded, thats not the worst thing. I think Conor was the perfect foil for Mick Fennelly and they complimented each other incredibly well when playing together. Fogarty seems to have struggled to adjust to having different partners with him in midfield and they don't seem to be on the same page which makes Fogarty look bad as he was the one with the high standard for that position coming in. Most on here agreed he was very unlucky/robbed not to get an All Star for midfield in both 2014 & 2015. If anything Fogarty has got stronger and faster but I think a lack of a trusted partner has caused him problems and he has gone back to what he knew. He started playing more defensively to try and stop the ship sinking and eventually Cody has put him in the backs.

Mick Fennelly was a powerhouse and whoever you put in beside him would look good, and add the work rate of Eoin Larkin Kilkenny would dominate the middle third, and win as a team. Conor Fogarty is good to win a ruck maybe stop a man and do his own job but we lack class out there since the loss of Fennelly and to a less degree Larkin.

We need lads out there who can express themselves like Jamie Barron, take on lads, use a short pass, find runners, link up play etc. Fogarty and Deegan for me are very similar. Id have Cillian Buckley there, he put on a great display against Tipp in the league

blackcard

Kilkenny have played 7 games in League and Championship this year. A repeat of their form against Clare, Waterford, Dublin, Cork or Wexford in the League or Wexford in the Championship could see Kilkenny struggle on Saturday. KK really needs the likes of Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan to rediscover their form.

Nickindublin

blackcard wrote: »

Kilkenny have played 7 games in League and Championship this year. A repeat of their form against Clare, Waterford, Dublin, Cork or Wexford in the League or Wexford in the Championship could see Kilkenny struggle on Saturday. KK really needs the likes of Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan to rediscover their form.

I agree with you. I also think this game is the ideal opportunity to blood maybe one or two players who you would not necessarily do against Tipp or Waterford. I can also see at least one of the big players getting the chop.

babyjesus14

Nickindublin wrote: »

I agree with you. I also think this game is the ideal opportunity to blood maybe one or two players who you would not necessarily do against Tipp or Waterford. I can also see at least one of the big players getting the chop.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Wally taken out of the firing line and used as an impact sub. His form hasn't been good this year particularly compared to his All Star winning form of last year.

Nickindublin

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised to see Wally taken out of the firing line and used as an impact sub. His form hasn't been good this year particularly compared to his All Star winning form of last year.

I think he is the most likely. Although Richie if not 100% fit could also be benched. It will be very interesting to see how the team lines out especially 2-9.

dirkmeister

Ardán de Grás sold out according to kkgaa.

kk.man

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Some amazing posts here over the past few weeks. Some good, some awful and some hilarious. The good, the bad and the ugly. This post could fall into all of those categories. Really interesting discussion for a while on underage hurling which I will return to in the future. The thing that strikes me is there are so many ill informed people posting. If they are Kilkenny GAA fans surely they regularly look at the official Kilkenny GAA website for information and still they ask questions like when is the British Junior Football final between Kilkenny and Warwickshire on. Come on, people must know how to surf and gather official information if they are on here. I would have thought.

Anyway, that is not the point of this post. I wanted to return to my post in the immediate aftermath of the Wexford game where I suggested, in my opinion, the root problem in the 2016 AI final was not in the backs and has not been since. In my opinion, the problem has been in midfield. Hence the loss of Michael Fennelly is really being felt and Michael Rice, Derek Lyng and Cha Fitz before that. I challenge anyone to identify what is the function and requirement of the current Kilkenny midfield setup. Are they attackers, are they defenders, are they both, are thy one of each and what should they be? Most other counties are now using their midfielders like rugby a scrum half and out half, winning breaking ball from the half lines and redistributing it productively. Half lines are no longer trying to catch balls. You will notice that they are spoiling and breaking. Galway and Cork used the tactic to great effect against the Tipperary half back line with Canning and the midfielders mopping up broken possession to feed mobile forwards. Lee Chin is doing something similar for Wexford as is Conor Lehane for Cork. I don’t recall a huge amount of scrimmaging these guys did either, but they certainly got lots of possession.

Do we in Kilkenny have midfielders capable of this role which knits your defensive and attacking units together? Do we have midfielders capable of an alternative game plan which will outwit the current opposition game plan. Over the last number of years, who have been the standout midfielders at club matches? They haven’t really been any. There have been good backs, good forwards and good goalkeepers but midfielders? Clubs have stopped developing midfielders because for a while they became almost redundant blending as a back or a forward. Half forwards were targeted and were winning clean possession. Kilkenny were very good at it. Now the spoiling tactics have stopped the success of that approach. I have watched so many matches lately where one midfielder is at one sideline and the other is at the opposite, with no hope of supporting each other in time and leaving a complete hole down the centre for a defence to be drawn apart and exploited. People are only noticing the last bit, it seems, the full back line. In my day midfielders were the winners of the puckout. That day is long gone, but they still exist on the field and their role needs to be defined. They have to have a purpose, don’t they? A young lad nowadays is either a back or a forward or maybe the odd goalkeeper. Very few lads are being defined as a midfielder in Kilkenny. Yes lads are put there because its tradition, but why???

Even in the U21 match last week how many times were the midfielders seen operating together as a tag team? Many counties have had great individuals, Kilkenny’s success was built on the whole team ethic. In the aftermath of the 2016 AI final, public opinion sent the Kilkenny backs to the slaughter. They wanted the forwards rearranged as well . Read all the posts, put this lad in the forwards, put that lad in the backs. Yet very few have looked at the midfield pairing or how that midfield pairing should work. This is the department that knits it all together.

Have a look at your own club and study the midfielders and the role they are playing and their own interaction. Is it productive or effective? Ask the club mentors who are the standout midfielders in the club, even at underage.

I thought about the Limerick game today ...only reading boards now and I came to the conclusion whoever wins midfield on Saturday evening will win the game.

dastardly00

blackcard wrote: »

Kilkenny have played 7 games in League and Championship this year. A repeat of their form against Clare, Waterford, Dublin, Cork or Wexford in the League or Wexford in the Championship could see Kilkenny struggle on Saturday. KK really needs the likes of Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan to rediscover their form.

I'd add TJ Reid to your list of players that need to rediscover their form.

TJ has been solid from placed balls and particularly excellent from penalties, but he has played every minute of all of those 7 matches and has only scored 1-9 from play.

JimTreacy

Is it true that James Maher broke his jaw in training over the weekend.

JimTreacy

dastardly00 wrote: »

I'd add TJ Reid to your list of players that need to rediscover their form.

TJ has been solid from placed balls and particularly excellent from penalties, but he has played every minute of all of those 7 matches and has only scored 1-9 from play.

Our goalie would need to use possession better with the puckouts we need a vast improvement all around hopefully things will come together. The best of luck to all Kilkenny teams in action over the next week.

tbiggertycome

IT WAS SILENCE which greeted Kilkenny’s defeat in their Leinster semi-final at Wexford Park, so says Richie Hogan.


Instead they’ll visit a Kilkenny team desperate to inflict silence upon the rest of us.

............... APOLOGIES double post, see below post for full article and link.

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Gavan Casey

Richie Hogan article from the 42.ie our full-time hurler. Very interesting.

tbiggertycome

IT WAS SILENCE which greeted Kilkenny’s defeat in their Leinster semi-final at Wexford Park, so says Richie Hogan.

The Cats were ultimately outfought and outplayed on a day which, for their neighbours, will go down in folklore, but they needed no further reminder that they were sub-par that day than the thousands of jubilant Wexford supporters who took to the field to be serenaded by Davy Fitzgerald from his pulpit in the stands, or the scoreboard which read 1-20 to 3-11 in favour of the hosts.

Nobody knew that better than Brian Cody.

“He actually genuinely didn’t say anything,” Hogan says, recalling the evening when a plethora of armchair pundits finally sprouted the stones to definitively write Kilkenny off. It was a watershed moment, all right.

“Sometimes that’s worse, but he doesn’t really need to say anything when the players are hugely disappointed. It’s important to be able to let that linger so that it drives you on for the next day. And then we have a three week break, so there’s almost no need to get us going straight away, that minute. We could kind of feel sorry for ourselves for the day and then get up and get on with it afterwards.”

Hogan’s own lack of impact on his side’s defeat was brushed aside by many as merely a symptom that this crop of Cats was down to its last life, void of energy and fight, ready to wander out the back door only never to return.

It’s rarely if ever that simple with Kilkenny, of course. Hogan had been suffering with a back injury in the build-up which prevented him from preparing accordingly, and the four-time All Star readily admits he was blowing hard at crunch time as Kilkenny were sentenced to death by their rivals.

“I was very doubtful before the Wexford game, and I actually felt great going out into the warm-up, and I felt fine in the first half. But I tired quickly. I hadn’t done a huge amount of training. To be honest with you, I was just so relieved and happy to be on the pitch. I missed the first round last year with a broken hand. I missed half the Leinster final as well.

“It’s so devastating because the league matches are great and all, but Championship is what it’s all about. You train since November or whatever, training three or four nights a week and then a couple of nights in the gym, and then you get to the week before the game and you get an innocuous enough injury – it’s a killer. Especially with the way it is now, like. I mean, lose on Saturday and we’re gone, Championship is over. So a back injury for 10 days might as well be a cruciate injury for nine months because you don’t come back ’til next year.”

Launch of Sure deodorant as Official Statistics Partners of the GAA
Source: Brendan Moran/SPORTSFILE

Speaking at an event to promote Sure’s ‘Never More Sure’ series, which has been launched in celebration of the company’s second year as Official Statistics Partner of the GAA, Hogan declared with a degree of certainty that he was now fighting fit. A combination of epidurals and steroids – the legal kind, as per his own nervous interjection – have left the seven-time All-Ireland winner feeling “as good as new” ahead of the qualifiers.

It’s just as well. Here sits a man for whom the ability to hurl competitively is quite literally the be-all and end-all. Last Easter, the 28-year-old cleared his desk at Belgrove Jr Boys National School in Clontarf, Dublin, and left teaching in his rear-view indefinitely.

The toils of a 120-kilometer round-trip and an ungodly schedule eventually forced him to prioritise, but where for many this would see a career in Gaelic games reluctantly parked, Hogan is one of the few who has flipped the script.

“Since I stepped away from [teaching] it’s been absolutely brilliant. I like to be able to do hurling every day. So I used to do my gym sessions in the morning, I’d go to DCU at maybe quarter-past six. Then I’d go to work, and maybe do my hurling in the evening, and obviously on a training day travel home. Now I’m able to recover properly, so I don’t have to go to the gym at six o’clock in the morning. I can go to the gym at nine o’clock and take that break in the afternoon, and then do my hurling and do a bit of lower-body, a bit of core work. Look, I’m 28, so I have to look after myself properly, and that’s my highest priority.

It would depress you travelling home and you get out of the car, and you’re just so broken up after it. Now, I just love training; I can’t do the Michael Fennelly thing of, you know, take it easy and get yourself right at a slow pace. I can’t do that. In my own head I’m not able to do that. I drive down from Dublin, but I’d walk from Dublin to be able to train I just love it so much. I can’t do that thing that he does.
“I’m incredibly lucky that I’m very good with money. I worked for seven years, and I have a Masters in Business and Finance. I saved a huge amount of money, and then I do a bit with a recruitment company where we recruit teachers to go to the Middle East. I do a couple of hours a week at that. At the minute I’m going off savings alone, but I’ve seven years’ savings behind me where all my friends are going on holidays and that sort of stuff, buying new cars. I don’t have to worry about a car because I’ve sponsorship like a lot of other hurlers, so that’s one thing off the books. But it is mostly savings, and I’m just very careful with it.”

Somewhat incredibly, he intends to continue in a similar vain until his time in the black and amber elapses. He still lives in Dublin, however; his girlfriend, too, is a teacher, and her gig in Ballymun means Hogan continues to train a long way from Danesfort. And the life of an athlete in No Man’s Land is hardly a picnic.

“It’s great sometimes, but sometimes it can be difficult because you’re completely on your own. It’s alright going to training sessions and you’re around other people, but when you’re training as an individual… I have great sympathy for triathletes or runners or whatever. When you look at them they all try to train in groups of two, three or four, so it’s quite difficult when you’re on your own, especially when every club keeps kicking me off their hurling pitches! You name it, I’ve been kicked off it.”

All of this being said, Hogan doesn’t perceive his own endeavour as a call to action to his fellow players, many of whom might like to see the GAA go down the route of professionalism. Frankly speaking, he’s not overly fussed. His own pursuit is about the small ball and nothing else.

“Do I see it going like that [professional]? I honestly don’t know. I haven’t really thought about it. But for me it’s not about money at all. There’s some people who need money, who like to be able to live that lifestyle, who like to be able to focus on their career. That’s hugely important, and the GPA do a huge amount of work around that, but it’s just not that important to me.

I remember saying it to one of these life coaches that I was speaking to, I said: ‘If I play to the age of 35, and get everything out of myself, I will gladly sweep the streets for the next 50 years’.
“But I’m lucky in the sense that I’m a teacher, I’m fully qualified, so I can go get a job whenever I want. It shouldn’t be that difficult if I ever decide to go back to it.”

It might well prove to be the case that Hogan’s decision to focus solely on hurling couldn’t have arrived at a more crucial juncture for his county. For the first time in four years, Kilkenny are staring down the barrel in late June, and Hogan recalls only too well the slings and arrows of outrageous scheduling which await them in the qualifiers.

Mind you, he’s reveling in the challenge.

“It’s just such a difficult route to go through,” he says. “I know Tipperary went through that route, I think in 2010, but I’m just judging it on 2013 where we had so many games. We had Tipp in the Páirc, we had Waterford and won after extra time. We had Cork, we had two games with Dublin, we had a game with Offaly. It’s just game after game after game. If you talk to any of the lads that played on that team, they just loved the whole experience. We were devastated when we lost to Cork, but if we could have continued it just would have been an unbelievable way to win an All-Ireland.

“There’s just no thinking: you go out and just play the game, and the best man wins. There’s not enough time to analyse other teams, there’s not enough time to prepare, because you don’t even know who you’re playing until a couple of days beforehand. It’s just a great, natural way of playing the game.”

On a day in which he’s promoting Sure, the GAA’s official Statistics Partner, the decorated all-rounder readily admits he ‘loves’ doing his own video analysis on fellow greats, “the likes of Austin Gleeson, Tony Kelly and Séamus Callanan.” A few of them might well cross his path not only in the coming weeks, but with more regularity in the coming years, too.

Then the reigning Hurler of the Year, Hogan was vocal in his dissatisfaction with the hurling championship structure back in 2015, calling for more games after Kilkenny again reached the All-Ireland final after just three outings. Fast forward a couple of years, and it seems he’ll be granted his wish from next season.

“Look what I ****ing started!” he laughs.

I genuinely don’t even know. We want more games – yes we do. The new Championship that’s going to come in, and I think it more than likely will come in, and everyone’s in favour of it. And then in my own head I’m kind of thinking, if you have four group games in Leinster, us going down to Wexford and the joy [after Wexford's win]…will that exist? Or Tipperary beat Cork in Semple Stadium, and it’s just a group game, does it take away a little bit from that?
“I don’t really know. But I think what’s great is that you have the Munster final and the Leinster final. If it was just a group thing and the top team wins it, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea. But I think I like it.

“Teams will have a lot of players who are incredibly talented and don’t get a chance to play and prove themselves because they might be number 16 or 17, so it gives a team the chance to use the whole panel. In Kilkenny we’re very much about the panel. The panel is everything for us. You’re going to need your whole panel if you’re going to play that many games in that short space of time. I think I am in favour of it. I’m not 100% sure.”

His doubts don’t necessarily concern Kilkenny’s position within a new format, but rather the ‘neither a hurling stronghold’ counties, and as to whether they would still play a role in their own provincial championships.

“The qualifier group, I don’t know what it’s even called – is it Leinster 2? What do you do with that? What happens if Kerry win that? Do they go into the Munster Championship and a Munster team goes out? Or if Kerry win, and beat Waterford in the quarter-final, do Waterford go into the group and Kerry go into the Munster Championship? They beat them before, in ’92.

Leinster and Munster are fine, but I would be more in favour of coming up with two groups, and just join all the teams together. Mix Leinster and Munster teams in a group, and then the top Leinster team on either side can play in a Leinster final, the top Munster teams can play in a Munster final, and your top two or three teams on each side go into quarter-finals.”

Of one thing Hogan is certain: the provincial championships must be maintained in some form or another. And he has a sharp response to anyone doubting the gravitas of a Leinster championship over which his own county has reigned superior for almost two decades.

It aggravates me sometimes when you talk about, ‘oh, the Leinster Championship is not worth anything’. You’re going to have about 65,000 people in Croke Park next week, and they’ll tell you what a Leinster Championship is worth.
“I hate that comparison between Leinster and Munster. Our championship is just as important. You often see great Munster Championships and then you see a Leinster team winning the All-Ireland. The Leinster Championship is huge to us. Wexford are back, Dublin are back – let’s say compared to where they were 20 years ago. If we can get Offaly up there again now, and obviously you have Galway in there, it just makes for an unbelievable championship.

“You’re going to have lean years here. Of course you are. But that doesn’t mean you scrap the whole thing.”

That last line could also be applied to the supposed crisis facing Brian Cody’s Kilkenny. On Saturday, they host a youthful Limerick outfit unburdened by the same expectation, and on this occasion Hogan doesn’t need to go back to the early ’90s to search for an example of why such a proposition might be problematic.

“There’s that element of no fear about them,” he says, eyes widened. “I know it’s in Nowlan Park, which is great, but if you break it down they have fantastic players all over the pitch who would make teams on other counties easily, and just ’cause they didn’t get it right last year or the year before…look at Wexford last year and the year before. So just because they didn’t get it right then doesn’t mean that they’re gone. They’re going to be a really huge challenge for us.”

And with that it’s a wrap, but when you’re speaking with a full-time hurler of Richie Hogan’s ilk, you should know better than to hastily hit ‘stop’ on your recording device. For him, there’s no off switch, not least three days before a do-or-die clash in his homeland.

“And they were there or thereabouts against Clare!” he adds rapidly. “Clare play the kind of game where it can look like a bad game, but it’s just a style of play. And Limerick cut them open a few times, and if a couple of those goal chances that they got had gone in, and they got their tails up, they’d be in a Munster final.”

Instead they’ll visit a Kilkenny team desperate to inflict silence upon the rest of us.


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Gavan Casey

http://www.the42.ie/richie-hogan-3468268-Jun2017/
Richie Hogan article from the 42.ie our full-time hurler. Very interesting.

dastardly00

^^^ absolutely fascinating article. I just logged on to post it as well.

Ceist_Beag

Village87 wrote: »

Are the footballers playing before hand too ?

Highlights of the semi final last weekend where Kilkenny won 2-11 to 1-13. Final is against Warwickshire this Saturday

Village87

Great read by Richie, top class pro. The benefits of a playing for a top county like Kilkenny allows players to do this, as the rewards are there, Cars, Holidays, Promotion money high profile Etc.. But weaker counties are getting weaker as there top players have little access to any of this and there dedication leads to little reward.