Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

dastardly00

Well done to the players for not giving up. That's priceless. I myself had given up for sure, as evident by my earlier posts.

We could have won it, but really we were beaten out of the gate tonight. Really, really poor for the majority of the match.

I just don't understand how our touch is so poor.

Lester was very good when he came on. Justification that he should have started. Our best player.

noserider

Pity Lester didn't start. Richie Leahy a fine hurler, the timing was right to bring him on. Will only add to his confidence. Would of loved to see Fogarty in midfield, thought he really pushed up the field into a more natural position once second goal was conceded.
Well done to WD.

The White Feather

Commiserations to all the Cats here. It just felt like that movie A bridge too far!

A lot of players touch seemed off today for some reason but they showed great spirit and heart to keep going and force extra time. It says a lot about Kilkenny that right up until the end I still wondered could they pull it out again.

As I said earlier, Leahy looks a good player and with a few more young players added next year Kilkenny will be right back in the thick of things again.

usualstripes

dastardly00 wrote: »

Well done to the players for not giving up. That's priceless. I myself had given up for sure, as evident by my earlier posts.

We could have won it, but really we were beaten out of the gate tonight. Really, really poor for the majority of the match.

I just don't understand how are touch is so poor.

Lester was very good when he came on. Justification that he should have started. Our best player.

Lads. We were beaten by a faster, better team this evening. We now have to support our minors and u21s. It's hard to take but we have to regroup and drive on. The likes of leahy, Billy ryan, john walsh, donnelly, James maher and sean morrissey must step up. We won't lose anyone from the panel but we will drive on. Make no mistake about it. Michael Fennelly found it tough this evening as he hadn't the training done. Tiocfaidh ar la aris.

topper_harley2

Dionysis wrote: »

they just had no hunger left in them.

Think thats a little unfair after they battled back from 8 behind in under 15 minutes from the end.
They were by far 2nd best all night and it still took 90 minutes to beat them. I don't think you can question their hunger. If anything, their hunger has seen them overachieve in the last 3 years with dwindling talent (relative to previous KK teams).

JaffaP

Nothing too surprising tonight, Kilkenny have been poor all year. The 'comeback' was nothing more than a rather atrocious Waterford choke.

Why start Jonjo Farrell? Why bring Robert Lennon back in? Why take Colin Fennelly out of the full forward line?

Cody's time has come to an end.

dubcat51

Well done to the pkayers tonite never never giving up is brillant to watch.padraig walsh at full cost 2 goals and some other strange positioning of players.we have over reacted to last years all ireland defeat.pick our best players in their best positions and go from there.will get behind minors 21s and camogie now and drive on.

mullinr2

Major changes needed for next year. All through out the league and championship, our touch pace and fitness has been off. Players playing out of position. No link up play from forwards. Blame has to lie with management. Cody has been the best thing for kk hurling but he can't be immune from criticism. He lost the plot this yr.
Following players have to be in team next year
Leahy, Billy Ryan, Donnelly, Cleer, Scanlon.
Following players will have to be shifted off the panel - JJ Farrel, Chris Bolger, Mark Begin. Following players need to find their form again - R. Hogan, P. Murphy, P Walsh, Walter, C. Fennelly.
Players need to played in their natural positions P Walsh needs to go back to half back line.
Is Cody the man to bring kk back? I'm not sure he is

noserider

Yeah agree, players back in their natural position. Supplement that with a one or two from U 21's. Plenty to be optimistic about.
Is Cody the man to bring back kk?

If not, who is?

redlead

Dionysis wrote: »

they just had no hunger left in them.

I couldn't disagree more. There was certainly an element of Waterford choking but the fight in Kilkenny to come back was unbelievable. Kilkenny never ever give up; you were like dying rats trapped in a corner tonight and I mean that as a compliment.

rebel girl 15

Fair play to KK to drag themselves back and force extra time, aren't beaten until the final whistle and that game could be used as a model for other team on how belief can be so important. From a neutral perspective, Kilkenny's first touch was as poor as I've seen in a long time from any KK team. Dropped balls which put them under pressure. Fennelly's drifted in and out of the game - TJ Reid was expected to do the work of three men. That young fella Leahy will be around for a while - championship debut and scored, showed well.

There were collective failures and lack of cohesion - two incidents in the game for me were things that were unKilkenny like. Think it was the second half, one of the Waterford subs up against two KK men on the far sideline, and the two KK boys get in each others way, one pulled on the other and the end result was a Waterford line ball. The second one was the Shanahan goal, 3 backs v two forwards, and all the KK players go for the one ball - lack of communication totally. And surprisingly, no cynical play there - the KK #5 could have lept on Shanahan and taken him down outside the 21.

On SS3, it was mentioned that one of the Fennelly's who had been substituted came down to speak to Cody, both looked back at the bench and Hogan was brought back on. That has never been Cody's style - and as easy as it is to say it, I do think his time is up. The poor first touch, backs who definitely looked out of position and out of sorts and that comes down to the management

Comerman

mullinr2 wrote:

Major changes needed for next year. All through out the league and championship, our touch pace and fitness has been off. Players playing out of position. No link up play from forwards. Blame has to lie with management. Cody has been the best thing for kk hurling but he can't be immune from criticism. He lost the plot this yr. Following players have to be in team next year Leahy, Billy Ryan, Donnelly, Cleer, Scanlon. Following players will have to be shifted off the panel - JJ Farrel, Chris Bolger, Mark Begin. Following players need to find their form again - R. Hogan, P. Murphy, P Walsh, Walter, C. Fennelly. Players need to played in their natural positions P Walsh needs to go back to half back line. Is Cody the man to bring kk back? I'm not sure he is

mullinr2 wrote:

He lost the plot this yr

Since Fogarty left???

Deathwish4

Padraig Walsh and Richie Hogan were septic; comically bad. Everything Walsh touched turned to Waterford scores.

kk.man

We can do all the blame game we want but it doesn't change the score board. Certainly this game is a turning point in Kilkenny hurling for good or bad only time will tell. But hats off to the lads for the comeback.

We've been through 10 taoiseachs, 8 presidents & 4 currency changes since Waterford last beat Kilkenny in the Championship oh and Brian Cody was 5 years old! Congratulations Waterford.

JJs Left Hand

That was some effort.. Obviously all 4 goals were shambolic and we're out but the comeback is what I'll remember

Dionysis

The team for. Ext needs to be
E Murphy
P Murphy
A N Other
A N Other
P Walsh
J Lyng/ A N Other
C Buckley
Fogarty
A N Other
TJ Reid
A N Other
A N Other
Richie Hogan
C Fennelly
A N Other

A lot of places up for grabs....

Davys Fits

Will Cody go now?

brookville

First of all congrats to our neighbours tonight how we brought that to extra time I'll never know but our tails were up then maybe if we had a few extra minutes who knows.
Look I dont think tonight was a huge shock this defeat was coming this week if not next week we just havent being hurling well enough and some of our passes to players in better positions were terrible. How all our backs
got sucked out and Murphy left isolated 1n1 or 3 lads going for a ball isn't pretty and shouldn't happen at this level.
No point slating lads or management a few hours after a defeat but starting lennon was strange and colin I would of thought would of being positioned at 14 for the match
Buckley was immense and Joe lyng for his 2nd match but again up front wally,hogan,kelly,colin poor.even tj missed a few handy frees ger and bolger brought on and taken off
There's a big rebuild on and the summer off will be no harm to some of our older lads
On retirements will the backroom stay or will dempsey?joyce,pender,lester,michael will probably consider things

2forjoy

Never say die attitude is brilliant and more counties need this training . Maybe its linked to the cat with nine lives but it works anyway .
The writing has been on the wall for a while now, but the future is bright if you saw the U-21 match on Weds.

Nickindublin

Well done Waterford totally deserves victory. Fair play to the players for getting to extra time. Looking at it the pub my mate said KK were shot and not fit enough for extra time. He was right.

Anyway I think I have learned 2 things from tonight. Firstly P Walsh is not a full back. His positioning was absolutely awful. Back to the half back line. Second is this team needs a rest. They gave everything but at the end of the day were not good enough.

Cody if and I presume will stay on has
a massive rebuilding job. He needs a full back, left corner back, 2 midfielder and probably 2 forwards. I also think the future is bright. We won't be as dominant as we were but we will challenge for titles.

noserider

P Walsh may not be a full back but is a fine hurler. Did his best in a position he was asked to fill.
Bull on his positioning being absolutely awful. Few poor touches but none of the full back line covered themselves in glory.
Cool it with the criticism, we're not as bad as many would have us believe

conahycat

Kilkenny had a fantastic never say die attitude. I thought we were dead and buried with 20 minutes to go, yet the end of the normal game time was thrilling and im so proud of the team to fight back as they did. Im proud of them today and over the last 20 years! Look, the better team won on the day today and congrats to Waterford. We can have no complaints. It would have been smash and grab robbery had we pulled it off.

From our perspective, i thought Lester fought hard and made a difference when he came in. Richie Leahy looked comfortable, which is great to see from a youngster. TJ as always is a hero (best penalty taker in Ireland), Eoin Murphy is the best goalkeeper in the country and Cillian Buckley was amazing. Padraig Walsh is doing the best he can at a job that he is new to him and if that is to be his role, lets give him time to adjust. I think he can hold his head up high this year. We have some amazing players and we have some great players and some good players and I'm just not sure why it isnt hanging together as it could. I think starting team today and last day against Limerick, can all be proud of achievements with room for improvement.

We've had some good years and at the moment, we are at best, in the mix with the AI hunting pack. Lets stick with the team and give them the support they deserve, Cody too. Roll on next year. Everyone will decide for themselves who stays and who goes, and we should support those decisions.

One point - we shouldn't 'groan' collectively when certain players are playing and are near the ball. Support who our team is and trust management/team to do us well.

Out of curiosity, last week against Limerick and this week against Waterford - i asked their supporters why KK were gone so far back anf what specific hurlers they thought weren't up to it - although some had opinions, there was no common theme or thread that anyone could pinpoint. We have the hurlers - its just not quite right at the moment and I'm not sure why.

Lets support both the team and management until the final whistle of the game every day in the future - and let's do it as loudly and vocally as we can. I'm as proud as I can be to be a Kilkenny supporter and long may the good times roll in the future!!

Pigeon Chaser

So that's it for another year ....

I must say, it was a very enjoyable game, albeit of poor enough quality at times.

We didn't deserve the win , we didn't even deserve a draw to be honest on the balance of play so it is testament to the effort and endeavour of our players to snatch a draw. I enjoyed it immensely and will remember it for a long time.

Plenty went wrong for us. It was the same old failings. On the sideline and at fullback.

I think the Padraig experiment didn't work. Padraig should be restored to the half back line for next year. He was at direct fault for 3, maybe all 4 of the goals. I'm not blaming the lad, he was shoehorned into a position he's just not comfortable in. Ironically because he is probably our best defender.

More worryingly however is our sideline. Cody has never been able to come up with a gameplan or approach that negates the sweeper. He's struggled with it for years now.

Some will call for Cody to step down. It might do no harm to freshen things up. In reality, I think it would be best he go, but accept that is definitely not going to happen so it is important we get the team around him right. Hurling has changed beyond recognition since 1999 when Cody was appointed and I don't think he is moving with the times.

We need a coach/selector with fresh ideas and flair. There is no point surrounding him with "yes men," that served their time under Cody and only know his ways.

I had a big problem with James Owens yesterday too. It would be easier say had we won, as now it looks/sounds like sour grapes but he was woeful. He wasn't fair in his application of the rules yesterday, and we had to work much harder, and take a hell of a lot of punishment to get our frees.

Looking forward to the rest of the championship now...

amber69

Comerman wrote: »

Since Fogarty left???

Nail on the head.

brookville

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

So that's it for another year ....

I must say, it was a very enjoyable game, albeit of poor enough quality at times.

We didn't deserve the win , we didn't even deserve a draw to be honest on the balance of play so it is testament to the effort and endeavour of our players to snatch a draw. I enjoyed it immensely and will remember it for a long time.

Plenty went wrong for us. It was the same old failings. On the sideline and at fullback.

I think the Padraig experiment didn't work. Padraig should be restored to the half back line for next year. He was at direct fault for 3, maybe all 4 of the goals. I'm not blaming the lad, he was shoehorned into a position he's just not comfortable in. Ironically because he is probably our best defender.

More worryingly however is our sideline. Cody has never been able to come up with a gameplan or approach that negates the sweeper. He's struggled with it for years now.

Some will call for Cody to step down. It might do no harm to freshen things up. In reality, I think it would be best he go, but accept that is definitely not going to happen so it is important we get the team around him right. Hurling has changed beyond recognition since 1999 when Cody was appointed and I don't think he is moving with the times.

We need a coach/selector with fresh ideas and flair. There is no point surrounding him with "yes men," that served their time under Cody and only know his ways.

I had a big problem with James Owens yesterday too. It would be easier say had we won, as now it looks/sounds like sour grapes but he was woeful. He wasn't fair in his application of the rules yesterday, and we had to work much harder, and take a hell of a lot of punishment to get our frees.

Looking forward to the rest of the championship now...

Some very good points in this and I'm certainly not going to blame owens but he was harsh on us in the 1st half and gave them a few handy frees to settle but it wouldn't of mattered.
We seemed to get isolated with one defender at the back while they seem to have lots of cover around their d.
I think whats really needed is a good coach a martin fogarty type person.I cannot understand 3 defenders going for 1 ball it's being going on years.
Padraig isn't a full back his probably to much of a hurler but unfortunately who else have we?I watched coughlan closely yesterday he had no interest in hurling and a tipp lad said his not a hurler he only pulls and drags and frustrates lads is that the kinda player we want?
As said we struggle with sweepers our lads lumping high ball down to a crowded defence.
Players can't be faulted for effort anyway I was very proud of them and no doubt we'll be back but the u21 is very important now we'll need the likes of delaney,cleere,mullen and tommy walsh to try make a quick step up next year

road_high

Kilkenny are better to bow out now as progressing further would have only meant more beatings from superior teams. Pointless exercise, hanging on to scrape draws at best. Take a well earned rest and look to the future.

Motivator

jeff bingham wrote: »

Good man

Sound boy. By the way, I meant to say Waterford would win by 7 😂

Cornerback1

Had a long journey home last night and with plenty of thoughts for company.

No knee jerk reactions - let it settle for a day or two and we'll re-visit it.

Well done to the lads on the comeback - showed heart and courage. Congratulations to Waterford; They fully deserved their victory and were the better team.

brookville

road_high wrote: »

Kilkenny are better to bow out now as progressing further would have only meant more beatings from superior teams. Pointless exercise, hanging on to scrape draws at best. Take a well earned rest and look to the future.

I couldn't agree more we've had no fluency all year very hard to see us competing with galway tipp clare or tipp.No settled team and to many of or fowards struggling I'm just hoping the break will do us the world of good like 2013 but back then we had tommy,henry,power etc. ...
Great to see Lyng hurling well last night I thought Murphy had his moments and buckley gave an exhibition
We have some nice players coming through so we have to have patience

dubcat51

noserider wrote: »

P Walsh may not be a full back but is a fine hurler. Did his best in a position he was asked to fill.
Bull on his positioning being absolutely awful. Few poor touches but none of the full back line covered themselves in glory.
Cool it with the criticism, we're not as bad as many would have us believe

agree totally.we need to play our best players in their best postions.also I couldnt understand why joyce didnt keep his place at 3 after the wexford game.

brookville

I'd be surprised if joyce stuck around but I would of had him starting last night ahead of lennon I think while we conceded a few bad goals it's our fowards where the problems lie 2 points from play in 35 mins is awful return some of the deliveries didn't help I felt they were more suited to defenders.I was happy just before ht but that goal wasa sucker punch.I think it was lennon who had a chence at the end of normal time that went wide we could of stole it.
We were unlucky with lester and fogarty 2 good chances missed but overall we can't have any complaints the better team won its back to the clubs now where there's a good few spots up for grabs

dubcat51

Without knowing who was going well in training and judging on match days joyce and lester had to start last night.in all 3 games he came on lester really put in a shift.joyce is a more solud option at full back than anyone else we have imo.

dobbs2210

dubcat51 wrote: »

Without knowing who was going well in training and judging on match days joyce and lester had to start last night.in all 3 games he came on lester really put in a shift.joyce is a more solud option at full back than anyone else we have imo.

Cody has done to Joyce what he did last year to Jackie and previous players over past year. Froze them out. Paying a huge price now for his wonderful man management.

Joyce should have been 3 with Padraig Walsh out to his best spot at wing back.

brookville

I thought joyce got a raw deal this year i would of thought he'd be ahead of a few lads in the pecking but look what's done is done now it had the feeling of 13 we huffed and puffed all year so we'll have to regroup and unearth some fresh talent and fill a few pivotal positions
I read today it's only the 4th time we've to reach the all Ireland since cody took over unbelievable record

Gentleman Off The Pitch

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Cody has done to Joyce what he did last year to Jackie and previous players over past year. Froze them out. Paying a huge price now for his wonderful man management.

Joyce should have been 3 with Padraig Walsh out to his best spot at wing back.

I still have nightmares from Joyce at full back marking S. Callinan in the league a few years back

C__MC

Joyce simply doesn't have the speed for full back

boggerman1

From a tipp perspective not too sorry to see ye gone.also it was nice to see tipp fans applaud of mick fennelly last nite.nice bit of respect for a class hurler.at least he wasn't booed and jeered off ala 2013 in Nowlan pk

dastardly00

boggerman1 wrote: »

From a tipp perspective not too sorry to see ye gone.also it was nice to see tipp fans applaud of mick fennelly last nite.nice bit of respect for a class hurler.at least he wasn't booed and jeered off ala 2013 in Nowlan pk

Is that the best you can do? Sure you might as well say that ye were robbed in the '09 final as well. And that Hawkeye was wrong in the '14 final.

Desperate.

Shirleysrumbler

boggerman1 wrote: »

From a tipp perspective not too sorry to see ye gone.also it was nice to see tipp fans applaud of mick fennelly last nite.nice bit of respect for a class hurler.at least he wasn't booed and jeered off ala 2013 in Nowlan pk

Tipp fans were right not to jeer Mick as he's not
a.A halfwit who went whinging on Late Late Show(Re Unemployment) when he was to lazy to get up in the morning-like most electricians C2010.
b.A gobs***e who follows an opponent around Croke Park mimmicking some kind of angst ridden pervrert.
c.Spends two seasons contemplating whether he's retired or not.
d. Regularly runs for cover when his club needs him.

jeff bingham

Shirleysrumbler wrote:

Tipp fans were right not to jeer Mick as he's not a.A halfwit who went whinging on Late Late Show(Re Unemployment) when he was to lazy to get up in the morning-like most electricians C2010. b.A gobs***e who follows an opponent around Croke Park mimmicking some kind of angst ridden pervrert. c.Spends two seasons contemplating whether he's retired or not. d. Regularly runs for cover when his club needs him.

We lost a match yesterday. Might be better to actually discuss that than this ****e.

Ompala

jeff bingham wrote: »

We lost a match yesterday. Might be better to actually discuss that than this ****e.

Commiserations lads, its a testament how much the never say die attitude is stuck in Kilkenny hurlers that ye should have been dead and buried and still kept going and had their been another few minutes left in normal time, I'd have fancied ye to scrape it over Waterford.

Looking at the game overall though, Waterford were by far the better team and deserved to win by more but their tactics were terrible to go defensive at the end. Shooting still isn't great for them.

Special mention to Buckley though, absolute warrior on the pitch last night.

Having spent the last decade watching Kilkenny spit out all ireland after all ireland I can say I too am glad to see ye gone, only to give some of the rest of us a chance :pac: No doubt though ye will be back :eek:

dubcat51

We wernt playing tipp last night.joyce would have been better at 3 than padraig and padraig would have given us more than fogarty at 5.also padraig usualy chips in with a couple of points and his scores are normally inspirational.

WhatsGoingOn2

dubcat51 wrote: »

We wernt playing tipp last night.joyce would have been better at 3 than padraig and padraig would have given us more than fogarty at 5.also padraig usualy chips in with a couple of points and his scores are normally inspirational.

Fogarty was one of our better players last night.

citykat

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

dubcat51 wrote: »

We wernt playing tipp last night.joyce would have been better at 3 than padraig and padraig would have given us more than fogarty at 5.also padraig usualy chips in with a couple of points and his scores are normally inspirational.

Fogarty was one of our better players last night.

It's become a parody at this stage. If Fogarty walked on water, he'd be hammered for getting his shoes wet.

Clonmel1000

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Tipp fans were right not to jeer Mick as he's not
a.A halfwit who went whinging on Late Late Show(Re Unemployment) when he was to lazy to get up in the morning-like most electricians C2010.
b.A gobs***e who follows an opponent around Croke Park mimmicking some kind of angst ridden pervrert.
c.Spends two seasons contemplating whether he's retired or not.
d. Regularly runs for cover when his club needs him.

Jesus Christ. Bitter bitter bitter.

dubcat51

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

Fogarty was one of our better players last night.

He is not as good a 5 as padraig.think back nearly 12 months to the scores padraig got in the replay v waterford and the 14 replay v tipp.all star lasy year at 5.

dubcat51

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

Fogarty was one of our better players last night.

He is not as good a 5 as padraig.think back nearly 12 months to the scores padraig got in the replay v waterford and the 14 replay v tipp.all star last year at 5.

Charlie69

Congratulations to Waterford. I'm glad they didn't score from the free at the end of normal time as we would have cried robbery (with justification.. never a free) when in reality they were by far the better team and deserved their victory.

We played like a team very short on confidence which leads to over-thinking things like not trusting your own first touch which in turn leads to a lot of mistakes that will be punished every time at this level.

digzy

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Tipp fans were right not to jeer Mick as he's not
a.A halfwit who went whinging on Late Late Show(Re Unemployment) when he was to lazy to get up in the morning-like most electricians C2010.
b.A gobs***e who follows an opponent around Croke Park mimmicking some kind of angst ridden pervrert.
c.Spends two seasons contemplating whether he's retired or not.
d. Regularly runs for cover when his club needs him.

Ya left out the 3 goals he hammered against ye in 2010 and humiliated Noel hickey

kk.man

Padraic Walsh wouldn't play any better in any position at the moment. He is not 100% fit and has little match time. We have a full back problem and I can see why Cody might play him there. Fully fit he is our best option... JJ Delaney was one of the greatest converts in the game. I believe given time Walsh will be a good convert too.

Noel Hickey wasn't anything as good as JJ.