Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Village87

Hows the young Tullogher/Rosbercon player going at Southampton ? Uncalculated loss for the minors this year by all accounts

citykat

danganabu wrote: »

Is this the kid who was corner forward on the U16 Hurling team last weekend?

Yup.

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

Is this the kid who was corner forward on the U16 Hurling team last weekend?

citykat wrote: »

Yup.

Seriously talented lad so, looked a cut above the rest in the final last weekend, ye may have another Shane Long on yer hands so.

Realt Dearg Sec

He was excellent for kierans as well. He's a serious talent.

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He was excellent for kierans as well. He's a serious talent.

And I wish him all the best in his soccer career

greenspurs

Topcat32 wrote: »

Great win, I see Ciaran Brennan was on the panel.

Which Brennans is he from ?? #SoMany

Realt Dearg Sec

danganabu wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He was excellent for kierans as well. He's a serious talent.

And I wish him all the best in his soccer career

I'd prefer to think of him as a loss to hurling in general if he goes to England. So tipp lads should be mourning that too...

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'd prefer to think of him as a loss to hurling in general if he goes to England. So tipp lads should be mourning that too...

Oh of course!

Being serious though, its something I think will become a bigger issue over the next few years, in general young lads that are talented at one sport will be equally talented at other sports. Of course this was always the case but the difference now is that they have far more exposure to other sports and the scouting networks of these professional sports have far more reach as well.

Alan Tynan, Colin O'Riordan and Shane Long would be three very high profile ones from Tipp but I am sure there have been more, it has been a problem for a lot of urban teams for years but its beginning to have an affect at inter county level as well.

brookville

danganabu wrote: »

Oh of course!

Being serious though, its something I think will become a bigger issue over the next few years, in general young lads that are talented at one sport will be equally talented at other sports. Of course this was always the case but the difference now is that they have far more exposure to other sports and the scouting networks of these professional sports have far more reach as well.

Alan Tynan, Colin O'Riordan and Shane Long would be three very high profile ones from Tipp but I am sure there have been more, it has been a problem for a lot of urban teams for years but its beginning to have an affect at inter county level as well.

I remember darren sweetman from Cork being a good prospect before turing to rugby also thomas o leary hurling minor for cork.
Darragh joyce was hurling well before departing last year but this probably happens in most counties.Id have sympathy for dublin hurling coaches bringing lads to minor or 21 and more than likely losing them to football.

citykat

greenspurs wrote: »

Which Brennans is he from ?? #SoMany

Old man is Conahy. Mother is bridge i think.

dubcat51

Young o connor is doing well at the saints.big loss on this years minors

Hawkeye6

dubcat51 wrote: »

Young o connor is doing well at the saints.big loss on this years minors

What makes you think that, as a matter of interest?

His only underage intercounty experience was for the Under-15 south where his performance was average in Wexford. There is very little evidence to support that he was going to turn into a great hurler. No more than any 13 year old who gives up or concentrates on another sport. In fact his most dominant displays in GAA were probably in Gaelic Football for his club.

danganabu

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

What makes you think that, as a matter of interest?

His only underage intercounty experience was for the Under-15 south where his performance was average in Wexford. There is very little evidence to support that he was going to turn into a great hurler. No more than any 13 year old who gives up or concentrates on another sport. In fact his most dominant displays in GAA were probably in Gaelic Football for his club.

All players become better when they are left out, injured or change codes. It's always being the way in every sport, always find it amusing but we are all guilty of it at times.

dubcat51

O connor loojed teal good 2 me when new ross won colleges v cork.at that point he looked county class.

brookville

Anyone know how the 21s are going ahead of next weekend?any practice matches or any fresh injuries?will doheny be near a return?we'll probably see the same team plus pat lyng?hopefully we've rectified the issue at corner back but very little learned since the leinster final.
Shane walsh,alan murphy and john walsh will be fighting it out for the corner forward position but we need big performance from everyone,maybe blanchfield could do better in the corner or out wing forward.

dirkmeister

danganabu wrote: »

All players become better when they are left out, injured or change codes. It's always being the way in every sport, always find it amusing but we are all guilty of it at times.

"Andy Reid Syndrome"

Village87

dubcat51 wrote: »

O connor loojed teal good 2 me when new ross won colleges v cork.at that point he looked county class.

I heard about that from a friend who teaches in Galway who Good Counsel played in the U16 All Ireland Semi Final. He taught he was an incredible talent, Good Counsel went on to win the All Ireland. Looking at the Kilkenny minors they were lacking a bit of quality.
Without advertising soccer he is probably better off where he is at the moment with the incredible wages and transfer fees at the moment

Hawkeye6

Village87 wrote: »

I heard about that from a friend who teaches in Galway who Good Counsel played in the U16 All Ireland Semi Final. He taught he was an incredible talent, Good Counsel went on to win the All Ireland. Looking at the Kilkenny minors they were lacking a bit of quality.
Without advertising soccer he is probably better off where he is at the moment with the incredible wages and transfer fees at the moment

So he was outstanding in a Junior "A" Colleges campaign in 2014 and this makes him a huge loss to this years minor team??

Although mentioned in the comprehensive match report for the final, he isn't painted as a superstar and the mention of the semi-final refers to 2 other players as being key. In fact the report also seemed more impressed that he was an Irish Soccer international rather than his hurling ability.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/sport/gaa/magnificent-seven-power-counsel-home-30796033.html

I don't want to be undermining any young sportsperson. he certainly has a talent that he is putting to good use. Well done to him. I suppose what I find irritating in GAA, is there is always more concern about those we haven't got rather than those we have got. Fortunately, we still have Ciaran Brennan at the moment so he deserves the plaudits so far and he has earned them in county colours at Under-14 and Under-16 now, though it is unfair to heap too much on any young player that he is going to be the next superstar. Those of us who followed Richie Hogan, will know it did not happen over night in the end for him either.

I often hear lads in clubs talking about this young fellow has huge potential but he is also "big into the soccer" or whatever. If you know this you have two choices; Swing him back to GAA as quickly as possible or focus your development time on the lad you'll know will stay with it. But you see the issue is often those type of lads take more work and a lot of club coaches are lazy, yes lazy, and take the easy option by not developing what look like average or maybe even below average players at underage. If that was always the way, what would have happened the likes of Derek Lyng or Martin Comerford?

Now I'm going to throw a grenade into the mix for a bit of objective debate on the weekend of an All-Ireland Seniro Hurling final that Kilkenny are not involved in... The overall standard of underage club coaching is probably at its lowest point... :eek:

Village87

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

So he was outstanding in a Junior "A" Colleges campaign in 2014 and this makes him a huge loss to this years minor team??

Although mentioned in the comprehensive match report for the final, he isn't painted as a superstar and the mention of the semi-final refers to 2 other players as being key. In fact the report also seemed more impressed that he was an Irish Soccer international rather than his hurling ability.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/sport/gaa/magnificent-seven-power-counsel-home-30796033.html

I don't want to be undermining any young sportsperson. he certainly has a talent that he is putting to good use. Well done to him. I suppose what I find irritating in GAA, is there is always more concern about those we haven't got rather than those we have got. Fortunately, we still have Ciaran Brennan at the moment so he deserves the plaudits so far and he has earned them in county colours at Under-14 and Under-16 now, though it is unfair to heap too much on any young player that he is going to be the next superstar. Those of us who followed Richie Hogan, will know it did not happen over night in the end for him either.

I often hear lads in clubs talking about this young fellow has huge potential but he is also "big into the soccer" or whatever. If you know this you have two choices; Swing him back to GAA as quickly as possible or focus your development time on the lad you'll know will stay with it. But you see the issue is often those type of lads take more work and a lot of club coaches are lazy, yes lazy, and take the easy option by not developing what look like average or maybe even below average players at underage. If that was always the way, what would have happened the likes of Derek Lyng or Martin Comerford?

Now I'm going to throw a grenade into the mix for a bit of objective debate on the weekend of an All-Ireland Seniro Hurling final that Kilkenny are not involved in... The overall standard of underage club coaching is probably at its lowest point... :eek:

Any St Kierans team that win an All Ireland Junior will be backboned by 5 or 6 players on the Kilkenny Minor team, so i presume an "outstanding player" for Good Counsel who win it would potentially be a loss for Kilkenny Minors, I think so anyway.

northern lad

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

So he was outstanding in a Junior "A" Colleges campaign in 2014 and this makes him a huge loss to this years minor team??

Although mentioned in the comprehensive match report for the final, he isn't painted as a superstar and the mention of the semi-final refers to 2 other players as being key. In fact the report also seemed more impressed that he was an Irish Soccer international rather than his hurling ability.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/sport/gaa/magnificent-seven-power-counsel-home-30796033.html

I don't want to be undermining any young sportsperson. he certainly has a talent that he is putting to good use. Well done to him. I suppose what I find irritating in GAA, is there is always more concern about those we haven't got rather than those we have got. Fortunately, we still have Ciaran Brennan at the moment so he deserves the plaudits so far and he has earned them in county colours at Under-14 and Under-16 now, though it is unfair to heap too much on any young player that he is going to be the next superstar. Those of us who followed Richie Hogan, will know it did not happen over night in the end for him either.

I often hear lads in clubs talking about this young fellow has huge potential but he is also "big into the soccer" or whatever. If you know this you have two choices; Swing him back to GAA as quickly as possible or focus your development time on the lad you'll know will stay with it. But you see the issue is often those type of lads take more work and a lot of club coaches are lazy, yes lazy, and take the easy option by not developing what look like average or maybe even below average players at underage. If that was always the way, what would have happened the likes of Derek Lyng or Martin Comerford?

Now I'm going to throw a grenade into the mix for a bit of objective debate on the weekend of an All-Ireland Seniro Hurling final that Kilkenny are not involved in... The overall standard of underage club coaching is probably at its lowest point... :eek:

Some club underage coaches are really excellent, some good, some average, some poor.... No different to any other time in Kilkenny Gaa.

Ceist_Beag

On the subject of underage coaching, some interesting comments from DJ on the matter. Could it be that the kids are harder to coach these days rather than an issue with the coaches/coaching?

danganabu

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

On the subject of underage coaching, some interesting comments from DJ on the matter. Could it be that the kids are harder to coach these days rather than an issue with the coaches/coaching?

I read that article yesterday and was thinking that DJ will be the target of faux outrage and PC rubbish from children's groups, ADH experts etc etc and what ever other label they now put on disruptive kids.

But I was also nodding in agreement with everything he was saying

greenspurs

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

The overall standard of underage club coaching is probably at its lowest point... :eek:

You would hardly have any stats to back that up? or is it just your opinion.
As was mentioned, there have always been good + bad + indifferent coaches for every sport, always.

Hawkeye6

Village87 wrote: »

"outstanding player" for Good Counsel.

You are basing that purely on hearsay.
The match report does not suggest that.

Ceist_Beag

danganabu wrote: »

I read that article yesterday and was thinking that DJ will be the target of faux outrage and PC rubbish from children's groups, ADH experts etc etc and what ever other label they now put on disruptive kids.

But I was also nodding in agreement with everything he was saying

From my own personal (admittedly limited) experience, I'm finding that kids are less interested once they leave the training pitch. Kids come back week after week and it's obvious they are doing nothing in between sessions so the progress is very slow. Looking at some of the older groups it's also quite noticeable that a lot of kids are just lazy - basics like running and jumping are an effort. But of course I could be imagining that things were different when I were a lad! :P
I haven't seen the attitude issues personally but possibly that's more to do with the ages I coach so it could well be all ahead of me yet!

greenspurs

Isnt it great that the Waterford people living and/or working in Kilkenny expect Kilkenny people to "shout for" Waterford !
Isnt it great that some workplaces down here on the border (kilkenny business's in Kilkenny) put up Waterford flags .... to appease their few Waterford workers....

Where are all the Kilkenny flags in Waterford buisness's when Kilkenny are in the Final ?? For some reason the Deise expect us in Kilkenny to want Waterford to win, and if we dont , we are just "Bitter barstewards" and "begrudgers" .....
In fairness, its mostly from the Bandwagon jumpers, never at a game since the Final in 08, and they cant understand the meaning/feeling of rivalry when the 3 counties are a couple of kilometers apart.

Anyway , may the best team win on Sunday......

Hawkeye6

greenspurs wrote: »

Isnt it great that the Waterford people living and/or working in Kilkenny expect Kilkenny people to "shout for" Waterford !
Isnt it great that some workplaces down here on the border (kilkenny business's in Kilkenny) put up Waterford flags .... to appease their few Waterford workers....

Where are all the Kilkenny flags in Waterford buisness's when Kilkenny are in the Final ?? For some reason the Deise expect us in Kilkenny to want Waterford to win, and if we dont , we are just "Bitter barstewards" and "begrudgers" .....
In fairness, its mostly from the Bandwagon jumpers, never at a game since the Final in 08, and they cant understand the meaning/feeling of rivalry when the 3 counties are a couple of kilometers apart.

Anyway , may the best team win on Sunday......

I'm sure they will reciprocate next week for the Under-21 final and the Camogie Final.

greenspurs

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

I'm sure they will reciprocate next week for the Under-21 final and the Camogie Final.

oHHH ABSOLUTLEY ............ :rolleyes::rolleyes:

James lakes

greenspurs wrote: »

Isnt it great that the Waterford people living and/or working in Kilkenny expect Kilkenny people to "shout for" Waterford !
Isnt it great that some workplaces down here on the border (kilkenny business's in Kilkenny) put up Waterford flags .... to appease their few Waterford workers....

Where are all the Kilkenny flags in Waterford buisness's when Kilkenny are in the Final ?? For some reason the Deise expect us in Kilkenny to want Waterford to win, and if we dont , we are just "Bitter barstewards" and "begrudgers" .....
In fairness, its mostly from the Bandwagon jumpers, never at a game since the Final in 08, and they cant understand the meaning/feeling of rivalry when the 3 counties are a couple of kilometers apart.

Anyway , may the best team win on Sunday......

See Mullane wants Mullins, or Aidan Obrien to supply him with a horse if they win, a pie bald pony would be good enough for him. What an insult to a good horse Mcgregor is only trotting after him.

dastardly00

Lads, I don't know why you are getting your knickers in a twist over Waterford. Just sit back and enjoy the match on Sunday.

dubcat51

Really want galway to win on sunday and put a end to the blanket.hope galway do what dublin did to tyrone last week.

kk.man

Common the Leinster champions!

Stopitwillya

greenspurs wrote: »

Isnt it great that the Waterford people living and/or working in Kilkenny expect Kilkenny people to "shout for" Waterford !
Isnt it great that some workplaces down here on the border (kilkenny business's in Kilkenny) put up Waterford flags .... to appease their few Waterford workers....

Where are all the Kilkenny flags in Waterford buisness's when Kilkenny are in the Final ?? For some reason the Deise expect us in Kilkenny to want Waterford to win, and if we dont , we are just "Bitter barstewards" and "begrudgers" .....
In fairness, its mostly from the Bandwagon jumpers, never at a game since the Final in 08, and they cant understand the meaning/feeling of rivalry when the 3 counties are a couple of kilometers apart.

Anyway , may the best team win on Sunday......

Leave it go man. Life is too short to be as bitter as you are. Every county has bandwagoners. Like Waterford, Kilkenny certainly has plenty too. Lets look forward to hopefully a good game tomorrow and an exciting 2018 where any one of a number of teams could win Liam.

road_high

greenspurs wrote: »

Isnt it great that the Waterford people living and/or working in Kilkenny expect Kilkenny people to "shout for" Waterford !
Isnt it great that some workplaces down here on the border (kilkenny business's in Kilkenny) put up Waterford flags .... to appease their few Waterford workers....

Where are all the Kilkenny flags in Waterford buisness's when Kilkenny are in the Final ?? For some reason the Deise expect us in Kilkenny to want Waterford to win, and if we dont , we are just "Bitter barstewards" and "begrudgers" .....
In fairness, its mostly from the Bandwagon jumpers, never at a game since the Final in 08, and they cant understand the meaning/feeling of rivalry when the 3 counties are a couple of kilometers apart.

Anyway , may the best team win on Sunday......

I've actually seen loads of Waterford flags around (north) Kilkenny...people living here etc I assume. I'm shouting for Galway, it's nothing against Waterford or bitterness just really respect their team, have more friends and people I know over there than in Waterford. Galway's is one of my favorite places in Ireland.

jeff bingham

No real favourite for tomorrow. Just hoping for a cracker. Would like to see Brick win an all Ireland as I would Joe Canning. Probably Bricks last chance though.

davidx40

The last few days has reminded me why i never wanted to see the waterford team with mullane to win an all ireland ......what a absolute embarresment to waterford and gaa.........

ProudDUB

kk.man wrote: »

Common the Leinster champions!

Isn't it great to see Liam back in Leinster, where he belongs?

dastardly00

davidx40 wrote: »

The last few days has reminded me why i never wanted to see the waterford team with mullane to win an all ireland ......what a absolute embarresment to waterford and gaa.........

What the fcuk was the point of your post? :rolleyes:

Stop embarrassing the rest of us KK folk

Realt Dearg Sec

davidx40 wrote: »

The last few days has reminded me why i never wanted to see the waterford team with mullane to win an all ireland ......what a absolute embarresment to waterford and gaa.........

How terrible of him to have passion for the sport and his county. That's not what the gaa is all about.

brookville

davidx40 wrote: »

The last few days has reminded me why i never wanted to see the waterford team with mullane to win an all ireland ......what a absolute embarresment to waterford and gaa.........

Definitely not a fan of mullane as a pundit but I wouldn't paint all waterford with the brush of mullane,the likes of ken mcgrath or tony brown sound like gents.
Hard luck to our neighbours but truth being told galway were the best team in the country all year and backed that up today with a better spread of scorers although I thought there full back line looked nervous at times.
Unfortunately poor brick probably leaves the county scene without a precious medal but fair play to galway no one could begrudge them or joe.

dastardly00

The U-21 final next Saturday is on at 3pm. It's normally on around 5 or 7pm.
Any particular reason why it has been moved forward? Is it because KK are in the camogie final in Croke Park the next day?

James lakes

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

How terrible of him to have passion for the sport and his county. That's not what the gaa is all about.

The night in a challenge match v Mullinavat the serious injury he inflicted on one of there players was that passion for his club or County. The player had to have an operation after it when he claimed the gaa looked into he got suspended over it.

Brian017

dastardly00 wrote: »

The U-21 final next Saturday is on at 3pm. It's normally on around 5 or 7pm.
Any particular reason why it has been moved forward? Is it because KK are in the camogie final in Croke Park the next day?

TG4 have a rugby double bill that evening so I'm guessing they asked the GAA if they could move both U21 finals to the afternoon

brookville

dastardly00 wrote: »

The U-21 final next Saturday is on at 3pm. It's normally on around 5 or 7pm.
Any particular reason why it has been moved forward? Is it because KK are in the camogie final in Croke Park the next day?

Any word from how the 21s are going?any challenge matches or injuries?

Realt Dearg Sec

James lakes wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

How terrible of him to have passion for the sport and his county. That's not what the gaa is all about.

The night in a challenge match v Mullinavat the serious injury he inflicted on one of there players was that passion for his club or County. The player had to have an operation after it when he claimed the gaa looked into he got suspended over it.

Is that what davidx40 above was referring to?

James lakes

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Is that what davidx40 above was referring to?

You ask him I don't speak for other people.

Hawkeye6

The Senior Hurling Championship for 2017 has ended and in my opinion it was a good championship, albeit not so good for Kilkenny, and it ended with a good entertaining final where the best team all year and on the day deservedly won out. Here are some of my talking points.

Like 2008, Waterford were not ready and not focused for the start, the only difference this time, and significantly so, they recovered and were allowed to recover. This game was won in the first three minutes as Galway scored three points in quick succession. 71 minutes later they were still only three points ahead. Even Kevin Moran, who I thought played very well overall was so nervous the ball fell out of his hand in the first three minutes. Thankfully for Waterford the ball was laid on nicely for him in the fourth minute, he picked his spot against a Galway keeper who was also not tuned in and that ended any chance of a repeat of 2008. It’s small margins at this level.

Are we facing a period Galway dominance and will Waterford be back next year? The top table has more occupants now, but the two still to watch are Tipperary and Kilkenny. Tipperary only lost by one single point to Galway. Kilkenny were level at full time with Waterford and given Kilkenny’s history in replays, had they met at semi -final level, who knows. Some people will say Kilkenny were poor this year. Yes, poor by the standards of the last decade, but Kilkenny were not poor. Any given day those results could be different. One problem Waterford have to overcome, is the mental psychology of sport. Their All-Ireland final was against Kilkenny. No matter how hard Derek McGrath was working, the psyche in Waterford was they had won something more than a match by beating Kilkenny. The GAA community is small and close, the emotion does spread very easily. Too many Waterford people were obsessed with the fact that Kilkenny were not in Croke Park on Sunday rather than their next opponents. If it were Kilkenny, would we be thinking about Waterford in the run up the All-Ireland final to any great extent? Their subsequent wins against Wexford and Cork although deserved do not carry any long term merit. The jury is out on whether the Wexford bandwagon can continue at the same level next year and the Cork win was surrounded in a lot of controversy. Galway, by far the team of 2018, still only won by a puck of a ball and Clare, a team with great U21 success around the same time, took a replay to do the same in 2013. Where have they been since? Watch out for the old guard in 2018.

The sweeper system was not buried yesterday. In fact it has cemented itself as a potential way to win an All-Ireland. A small bit of tweaking for Waterford and that puck of the ball could have gone the other way. It wasn’t even necessarily around the system itself. The nervous start, the bad wide in the second half from Kevin Moran, the missed free by Mahony, the petulance of and lack of team ethic from Austin Gleeson, the poor puckouts from Stephen O’Keeffe, the loss of Conor Gleeson were all factors. A tweak, not an abandon could easily swing that puck of the ball back in Waterford’s favour. Tipperary without a sweeper lost the League final by 17 points. It will be interesting to see how the Kilkenny Camogie team fare with their sweeper system next Sunday. The Camogie final will simplify the system for any coaches with a view to the future. More worryingly for the GAA than the sweeper system, after yesterday, and in particular if the football is won by Mayo; will player rebellions become more popular?

The last ever Under-18 minor Final was a brilliant game. From a Kilkenny point of view there is very little between ourselves Galway and Cork. Cork were trying to become the first and only county to win the minor four years after winning the Tony Forristal, but the Forristal curse struck again. Combine this with the fact that although Cork won both the Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh titles in 2015 and 2016, they failed in 2017 to reach the Under-16 semi-finals. Still points to the fact, that despite perceptions, Cork have a huge amount of work to do. Remember, they thought they had broke through in 2013 too and they made the final that year!

Specifically from a Kilkenny point of view, Brian Turnbull made Darren Morrissey the Galway corner back look very ordinary. Darren was outstanding and made Adrian Mullen look very ordinary in the semi-final. On the other hand, despite a no show in the first half, Jack Canning showed what he was capable of. He did not get that kind of luxury against Michael Carey (who was not his direct marker for all the Canning scores). A lot of posters have mentioned Mullen for quick promotion. Yes he has huge potential as a stick man. To make it in Kilkenny, you must be more than a stick man. Carey’s attitude is top notch, but because he is defender, he doesn’t get mentioned as much, even though we are crying out for defenders more so than forwards. Mullen was part of what was a very good bunch, who failed to deliver Forristal and Arrabawn. Carey was not part of Under-14 at all, a bit player at U16. He’s worked hard. A lot of Mullen’s reputation has been built on Kierans form, but as I have often suggested, that is a county team versus school teams and it is deceptive as regards the whole county setup. Both players are a good bit away from being considered for senior, though at this point Carey is the one to watch the most in my opinion. I wish both the very best of luck and hopefully, not too much pressure from us supporters to be delivering before being ready.

So lets see what the Under-21 and the Camogie throw up next weekend.

kkclubhurling

I saw Mullen a few weeks ago against Danesfort in the senior league, when his team were 10 points down, with TJ Reid and Colin Fennelly being kept extremely quiet by Murphy and O'Neill, Mullen, who is still 17 took the game by the scruff of the neck and along with his brother Darren dragged Ballyhale from the depths and pulled a draw from the fire.

He is not just a stickman.

robwen

We wouldn't look crooked at Cody
Waterford last appeared in the All-Ireland final in 2008, when they were ruthlessly dismantled by Brian Cody’s Kilkenny. In his revealing new book, The Warrior’s Code, former Kilkenny star Jackie Tyrrell says they didn’t just set out to win that game, but to also psychologically scar their hopeful opponents, and in exclusive extracts published today, Tyrrell also lifts the lid on Kilkenny manager’s brand of tough love.

Brian understands the group dynamic, the importance of proper chemistry and how it needs to be mixed with the correct blend of characters. Personalities who leaven that mix are critical to any group but Cody never wants somebody stirring the pot up too much.
John Mulhall was a great character, a guy who never conformed to expectations. He once had the distinction of representing Ireland in the World Series of Beer Pong in Las Vegas.
Mulhall was up for anything. At the homecoming for the 2011 All-Ireland, Brian handed him the microphone and Mulhall thought he was in the 3 Arena. He performed the song he'd written himself, G'wan the Super Cats, to the melody of KC & The Sunshine Band's Give It Up. Every verse was loaded with enough classic lines for a stand-up comedy gig and we all belted out the chorus. Everything was going to plan until Mulhall came to the last verse. "Now we've taken back our throne/Tipperary póg mo thóin/Liam MacCarthy's coming ****ing home."

Cody's body language immediately changed. When he took the microphone back off Mulhall, Brian told the crowd: "You've witnessed a performance by a fella who is probably going to have the shortest inter-county career of all time."

Brian may have only been joking, but Mulhall was gone by the following spring.

Brian appreciates wit and fun but most guys suppress that part of their personality around him because nobody knows where they stand with him. That mystique about Cody and his personality means that the players never know how to take him. That is a strength of Brian's but he probably feels he needs that type of personality to be able to handle so many driven players.
Affection has never been a dynamic in his relationship with us. Cultivating such a distance between us and him adds to his mystique. He is nowhere near as severe in private as his public image suggests but nobody would dare cross him.

For him, it's just black and white. Nothing personal. Just business. Cody never believed that dropping big names, always keeping guys on edge, added up to ruthlessness but none of us were ever in any doubt as to how ruthless he could be.
Before the 2010 All-Ireland final, he pulled Paddy Hogan and team captain Eoin Guinan from the Kilkenny ­intermediate team set to play in the All-Ireland final against Cork. The decision sparked some silent fury from the intermediate management when neither featured on the senior team eight days later. Guinan's club were reportedly furious over ­denying their man the opportunity to captain his county in an All-Ireland final, which Kilkenny won.

Guinan was on the panel the following winter. After losing the 2010 final to Tipp, we went back training earlier than normal. We worked like animals over the winter. Eoin did all the hard training but after one desperately hard session in Mooncoin, Brian told him he was being released from the panel.
I remember afterwards wondering why Eoin had been dropped in such a callous manner. I think I asked him afterwards if he had done something during the session to piss Brian off. Eoin said he hadn't.

I didn't understand Brian's reason for bringing a fella down to the bottom of the county in Mooncoin, running the **** out of him in the muck and dirt, and then telling him he was gone. To us it was pointless. To Brian Cody, it clearly wasn't. Maybe he was put out by the criticism he got from the Kilkenny intermediate management and from people in Eoin's club. If he was, that act of dropping him was Brian's way of letting everyone know who was the boss, and who makes the big decisions in Kilkenny.
The players were disappointed for Eoin but none of us dared to question Cody's authority.

I'm sure players in other counties would have queried such a decision but other counties haven't had the success that we've had. None of us would look crooked at Cody because we all know the exact same thing could happen to any of us just as quickly.

I often hear stories of managers in other counties having a really good relationship with their manager, of that fun and relaxed dynamic that never existed between us and Brian. I often craved that kind of relationship with Brian but then when I'd hear stories of how cosy some players were with their manager, some of the drinking and messing they'd do on holidays or during the off-season, I'm glad that Brian always kept that distance between us.
Nobody has a right to a jersey. We all appreciate that. Brian's methods have delivered us success beyond everyone's wildest dreams in Kilkenny. We appreciate and value the man so much. We don't expect to be mollycoddled but the lack of feedback is what drives most fellas mad.
Fellas with bags of All-Ireland medals have sometimes walked away bitter and angry. Cha Fitzpatrick has never spoken out publicly about Brian but privately, I would say that he was frustrated and may have felt forced to walk away at just 26. You can still sometimes see that frustration in Cha. He'll often have a go at Brian through some piss-take sketch. He once put up a team of 'Cody rejects'.

Cha was one of the most talented hurlers I ever played with, but I feel that Brian made up his mind about Cha after that 2010 All-Ireland final. Physically he was blown out of it that day. He was playing some great stuff for us in 2011 but he couldn't cover the same ground any more and Cody didn't believe Cha could survive in the combat zone the way he wanted him to. Brian let him stew on the bench and it played out just like Brian, Cha and the rest of us probably felt it would - Cha walked.

Brian was justified by winning another All-Ireland. He won another the year after Cha walked. Brian's success immunises his methods from most forms of criticism but he still should have been more upfront with Cha during 2011. If he had pointed out what he wanted from Cha, if he told him what he needed to improve on, maybe Cha would have done what was asked of him, and would have given himself a chance of extending his Kilkenny career. Then again, if Cody loses faith in a player, there's no way back.
That lack of feedback can still be crippling. It depends on where you are in your career but it still drives some lads demented when they're not playing. I'm experiencing it now. It can make you crazy but you just have to accept that this is how Brian conducts his business. It works. It has always worked. He has already squeezed a fair career out of me.

Individualism is nothing. It's all about the team. The show will carry on without any one individual. He is so ­tunnel-visioned that players, personalities, egos, even feelings, don't come into the equation if he feels it means Kilkenny will become soft.

I don't even know if Brian recognises the frustration players have often felt. I'm sure he would if he sat down and thought about it but it's not on his radar at all. Players have got frustrated. They have left before their time was done but none of it seems to matter to Brian. You'd just wonder is it a standard test he sets for everyone - how long can you endure? How long can you stay here without knowing where you stand?
I'm lucky that I've had Brother Damien to lean on. We've never been exposed to sports psychology under Brian, probably because he is the ultimate psychologist himself.

Brian completely understands the power of calculated instability, that tension he generates between hope and desperation. Brian might say to the group that five or six lads aren't pulling their weight and, no matter how well you're going, you'll still often think he is referring to you. That's the kind of stuff that continues to generate our relentless drive.

That's all that matters to Brian. He will not back down for anyone. He has his strong values, that Kilkenny hurling will keep rolling on, whoever is involved. That is the only focus he wants us to have. Nothing else matters. He is always afraid of outside influences contaminating the panel. That's why he has always been so distrustful of the media.
Some say it's paranoia. The majority of the stuff that has been written about Kilkenny over the years is positive but when Brian has no control, he gets edgy. His big fear is the insidious danger of complacency and softness creeping in and he always saw the media as a vehicle for creating those issues.

When Martin Fogarty was involved, he used to co-ordinate and organise all media requests but Brian always had the final decision. We were always told to say nothing. Seán Cummins, who was on the panel for a few years, came out with a comment once which encapsulated everything Brian thought, and wanted us to feel, about the media. "Treat them like mushrooms; fill them with **** and keep them in the dark."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/we-wouldnt-look-crooked-at-cody-36094445.html

kk.man

robwen wrote: »

We wouldn't look crooked at Cody
Waterford last appeared in the All-Ireland final in 2008, when they were ruthlessly dismantled by Brian Cody’s Kilkenny. In his revealing new book, The Warrior’s Code, former Kilkenny star Jackie Tyrrell says they didn’t just set out to win that game, but to also psychologically scar their hopeful opponents, and in exclusive extracts published today, Tyrrell also lifts the lid on Kilkenny manager’s brand of tough love.

Brian understands the group dynamic, the importance of proper chemistry and how it needs to be mixed with the correct blend of characters. Personalities who leaven that mix are critical to any group but Cody never wants somebody stirring the pot up too much.
John Mulhall was a great character, a guy who never conformed to expectations. He once had the distinction of representing Ireland in the World Series of Beer Pong in Las Vegas.
Mulhall was up for anything. At the homecoming for the 2011 All-Ireland, Brian handed him the microphone and Mulhall thought he was in the 3 Arena. He performed the song he'd written himself, G'wan the Super Cats, to the melody of KC & The Sunshine Band's Give It Up. Every verse was loaded with enough classic lines for a stand-up comedy gig and we all belted out the chorus. Everything was going to plan until Mulhall came to the last verse. "Now we've taken back our throne/Tipperary póg mo thóin/Liam MacCarthy's coming ****ing home."

Cody's body language immediately changed. When he took the microphone back off Mulhall, Brian told the crowd: "You've witnessed a performance by a fella who is probably going to have the shortest inter-county career of all time."

Brian may have only been joking, but Mulhall was gone by the following spring.

Brian appreciates wit and fun but most guys suppress that part of their personality around him because nobody knows where they stand with him. That mystique about Cody and his personality means that the players never know how to take him. That is a strength of Brian's but he probably feels he needs that type of personality to be able to handle so many driven players.
Affection has never been a dynamic in his relationship with us. Cultivating such a distance between us and him adds to his mystique. He is nowhere near as severe in private as his public image suggests but nobody would dare cross him.

For him, it's just black and white. Nothing personal. Just business. Cody never believed that dropping big names, always keeping guys on edge, added up to ruthlessness but none of us were ever in any doubt as to how ruthless he could be.
Before the 2010 All-Ireland final, he pulled Paddy Hogan and team captain Eoin Guinan from the Kilkenny ­intermediate team set to play in the All-Ireland final against Cork. The decision sparked some silent fury from the intermediate management when neither featured on the senior team eight days later. Guinan's club were reportedly furious over ­denying their man the opportunity to captain his county in an All-Ireland final, which Kilkenny won.

Guinan was on the panel the following winter. After losing the 2010 final to Tipp, we went back training earlier than normal. We worked like animals over the winter. Eoin did all the hard training but after one desperately hard session in Mooncoin, Brian told him he was being released from the panel.
I remember afterwards wondering why Eoin had been dropped in such a callous manner. I think I asked him afterwards if he had done something during the session to piss Brian off. Eoin said he hadn't.

I didn't understand Brian's reason for bringing a fella down to the bottom of the county in Mooncoin, running the **** out of him in the muck and dirt, and then telling him he was gone. To us it was pointless. To Brian Cody, it clearly wasn't. Maybe he was put out by the criticism he got from the Kilkenny intermediate management and from people in Eoin's club. If he was, that act of dropping him was Brian's way of letting everyone know who was the boss, and who makes the big decisions in Kilkenny.
The players were disappointed for Eoin but none of us dared to question Cody's authority.

I'm sure players in other counties would have queried such a decision but other counties haven't had the success that we've had. None of us would look crooked at Cody because we all know the exact same thing could happen to any of us just as quickly.

I often hear stories of managers in other counties having a really good relationship with their manager, of that fun and relaxed dynamic that never existed between us and Brian. I often craved that kind of relationship with Brian but then when I'd hear stories of how cosy some players were with their manager, some of the drinking and messing they'd do on holidays or during the off-season, I'm glad that Brian always kept that distance between us.
Nobody has a right to a jersey. We all appreciate that. Brian's methods have delivered us success beyond everyone's wildest dreams in Kilkenny. We appreciate and value the man so much. We don't expect to be mollycoddled but the lack of feedback is what drives most fellas mad.
Fellas with bags of All-Ireland medals have sometimes walked away bitter and angry. Cha Fitzpatrick has never spoken out publicly about Brian but privately, I would say that he was frustrated and may have felt forced to walk away at just 26. You can still sometimes see that frustration in Cha. He'll often have a go at Brian through some piss-take sketch. He once put up a team of 'Cody rejects'.

Cha was one of the most talented hurlers I ever played with, but I feel that Brian made up his mind about Cha after that 2010 All-Ireland final. Physically he was blown out of it that day. He was playing some great stuff for us in 2011 but he couldn't cover the same ground any more and Cody didn't believe Cha could survive in the combat zone the way he wanted him to. Brian let him stew on the bench and it played out just like Brian, Cha and the rest of us probably felt it would - Cha walked.

Brian was justified by winning another All-Ireland. He won another the year after Cha walked. Brian's success immunises his methods from most forms of criticism but he still should have been more upfront with Cha during 2011. If he had pointed out what he wanted from Cha, if he told him what he needed to improve on, maybe Cha would have done what was asked of him, and would have given himself a chance of extending his Kilkenny career. Then again, if Cody loses faith in a player, there's no way back.
That lack of feedback can still be crippling. It depends on where you are in your career but it still drives some lads demented when they're not playing. I'm experiencing it now. It can make you crazy but you just have to accept that this is how Brian conducts his business. It works. It has always worked. He has already squeezed a fair career out of me.

Individualism is nothing. It's all about the team. The show will carry on without any one individual. He is so ­tunnel-visioned that players, personalities, egos, even feelings, don't come into the equation if he feels it means Kilkenny will become soft.

I don't even know if Brian recognises the frustration players have often felt. I'm sure he would if he sat down and thought about it but it's not on his radar at all. Players have got frustrated. They have left before their time was done but none of it seems to matter to Brian. You'd just wonder is it a standard test he sets for everyone - how long can you endure? How long can you stay here without knowing where you stand?
I'm lucky that I've had Brother Damien to lean on. We've never been exposed to sports psychology under Brian, probably because he is the ultimate psychologist himself.

Brian completely understands the power of calculated instability, that tension he generates between hope and desperation. Brian might say to the group that five or six lads aren't pulling their weight and, no matter how well you're going, you'll still often think he is referring to you. That's the kind of stuff that continues to generate our relentless drive.

That's all that matters to Brian. He will not back down for anyone. He has his strong values, that Kilkenny hurling will keep rolling on, whoever is involved. That is the only focus he wants us to have. Nothing else matters. He is always afraid of outside influences contaminating the panel. That's why he has always been so distrustful of the media.
Some say it's paranoia. The majority of the stuff that has been written about Kilkenny over the years is positive but when Brian has no control, he gets edgy. His big fear is the insidious danger of complacency and softness creeping in and he always saw the media as a vehicle for creating those issues.

When Martin Fogarty was involved, he used to co-ordinate and organise all media requests but Brian always had the final decision. We were always told to say nothing. Seán Cummins, who was on the panel for a few years, came out with a comment once which encapsulated everything Brian thought, and wanted us to feel, about the media. "Treat them like mushrooms; fill them with **** and keep them in the dark."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/we-wouldnt-look-crooked-at-cody-36094445.html

Very honest...maybe too honest