Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hesh's Umpire

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

People find this hard to believe there is no pocket in the county where football is popular

Isn't Railyard football only?

Realt Dearg Sec

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

Isn't Railyard football only?

The club is football only. The area is Castlecomer, which is not a football stronghold. There's probably not a single player in that club for whom football is their main sport.

Cornerback1

Topcat32 wrote: »

So if everybody is fit, which is highly unlikely I think the team that Cody would pick for the Leinster championship would be as follows

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy Lennon Pendergast
Buckley Joyce Walsh
M Fennelly Fogarty
Larkin Hogan W Walsh
C Fennelly Reid Power

Subs would be
R Reid
Holden
Cody
Ryan
Kennedy
Lyng
O Shea
Farell
Blanchfield
Kelly
Bolger

I'd have Kevin Kelly in the corner before John Power...going on performances so far this season.

dubcat51

Thought we got the match up wrong on Sunday. Surely jackie on conlon would have been a better match up than Joey. Everyone is talking about clare so pace.but root 1 caused the goals.jackies aerial prowess and strength for me would have held conlon out.clare were shrewd in not pucking the ball down to padraig Walsh. Instead they went down o shea flank all the time.old saying when the ball goes dead you come alive.our players need to be told this as we conceded to many scores from re starts.glad to finally see bolger as I rate him the best of our forwards to replace award followed by blanch field. Think 1 or both of these will be starring in the championship.

Cornerback1

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Why would you drop Holden on the back on one bad game? With Fogarty and Fennelly back in the team our half back line can sit deeper and Padraig and Buckley can sweep in front of him along with Murphy. Don't think Conlan won much clean ball off Joey yesterday - they just murdered us on the breaks as they'd pulled our shape all over the place.

Whoever compared it to Galway in 2012 nailed it. Clare basically played with a full back line, Bugler at centre back and John Conlan up front and everyone else was fluid. Pender was following Collins and ended up on our half forward line for a lot of their puck outs and Wally ended up right half back behind Padraig Walsh following the man he was beside. The puck outs were coming so fast that we could never reset into any kind of shape. People in here were calling for Conor O' Shea to be midfield but he was ruthlessly exposed yesterday as not having the mobility for it and on the evidence of the last 2 days he doesn't have it for the half back line either.

Re: the forwards I think Jonjo is now ahead of Power for the championship. As I see it we have 2 options in the forwards, assuming 5 of the places are Wally, Colin, TJ, Richie and Larks, we can either have Jonjo as the 6th or we play Lester at 10/12 but he plays as an extra midfield/back like Fogarty. Not out and out sweepers but 2 players who go up and down the field constantly.

Anyone paying attention over the last 3/4 years would know that we're essentially playing with 15/16 players and a padded out panel that, at the minute, isn't up to it. Yesterday was coming and the best thing that happened was that it came in April.

Clare have shown their hand and I fully expect us to beat them in the championship IF we get everyone back fit. They still have McInerney, O' Donnell and Kelly to come back in as well. But if we don't line up with the 2 Fennellys, Murphy, Fogarty and Larks in the championship we're in big trouble

I think Clare were good yesterday but the 2 goals killed us. I don't think it was Holden's fault. Murphy, as the one behind facing the ball made the rash decisions. Clare tried this high ball tactic a few times before they got the goals. In this regard, I think and hope it's a one off.

They wanted to isolate Conlon and Holden on the edge and pull the others out to create space. After the goals the KK went all over the place.

Conor Fogarty will seal up the middle and block runners.

When they started with a sweeper why did we not push up on him when we were chasing the game? A sweeper is no good when you are 8 pts down!!

JJs Left Hand

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The club is football only. The area is Castlecomer, which is not a football stronghold. There's probably not a single player in that club for whom football is their main sport.

Railyard and Comer are completely different parishes. Cloneen is the hurling arm of Railyard but the parish is predominantly football. Mainly because they're ****e at everything except a few lads who can play handball.

Topcat32

Cornerback1 wrote: »

I'd have Kevin Kelly in the corner before John Power...going on performances so far this season.

I dont think Cody rates Kevin Kelly but I guess we will wont know till June.

Cornerback1

Topcat32 wrote: »

I dont think Cody rates Kevin Kelly but I guess we will wont know till June.

True. I think he's busier than John Power. John Jo played ok and Bolger chipped in with 2pts when he came on and was busy.

Cornerback1

Anybody know how many wides Clare hit yesterday?

Michael Kavanagh

They had four wides two in each half, we had ten first half four 2nd half , frees they had eight, we had twenty.

Cornerback1

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

They had four wides two in each half, we had ten first half four 2nd half , frees they had eight, we had twenty.

I was thinking that at the game. 4 V 14 wides.

Everything they hit struck gold and they got every break..ever the ball bouncing for the goals. On another day, they could have hit 15 wides.

What i'm saying is can Clare play as well again and hit a score like that.

Topcat32

The minor hurlers are playing this weekend, I know Tommy Walsh, Darren Mullen and Joe Connolly are underage this year, anybody else to look out for?

The Dickler

What in the name of God was Cody looking at yesterday?
From the very start it was obvious that Clare had identified Holden as the weak link, isolated him then ran amok with Joey and Murphy in a blind panic every time the ball was played in.
4 goals later and Cody just standing there like a tool waiting for it all to happen. Serious questions to be answered here?
Was Cusack the mastermind here? Maybe it's time Cody gave him a ring.

mountgomery burns

The Dickler wrote: »

What in the name of God was Cody looking at yesterday?
From the very start it was obvious that Clare had identified Holden as the weak link, isolated him then ran amok with Joey and Murphy in a blind panic every time the ball was played in.
4 goals later and Cody just standing there like a tool waiting for it all to happen. Serious questions to be answered here?
Was Cusack the mastermind here? Maybe it's time Cody gave him a ring.

Maybe he didn't care? He's not above criticism but to be honest its the first time I've seen a Kilkenny full back isolated in 6 years. Don't think that happens by accident, don't think Clare did anything others haven't tried.

clashoftheash

Yeah, in fact I think Donal Og should be knighted for his efforts.
Rethink your last line and try again boy.
What he was looking at was a team that underperformed yesterday. Obviously there is vulnerabilities in defence but they were nowhere near as bad as that.

Topcat32

The Dickler wrote: »

What in the name of God was Cody looking at yesterday?
From the very start it was obvious that Clare had identified Holden as the weak link, isolated him then ran amok with Joey and Murphy in a blind panic every time the ball was played in.
4 goals later and Cody just standing there like a tool waiting for it all to happen. Serious questions to be answered here?
Was Cusack the mastermind here? Maybe it's time Cody gave him a ring.

I guess he doesnt get as excited about league matches as Waterford people do. Another pitch invasion planned for two weeks time? Dont stop believing.

Cornerback1

The Dickler wrote: »

What in the name of God was Cody looking at yesterday?
From the very start it was obvious that Clare had identified Holden as the weak link, isolated him then ran amok with Joey and Murphy in a blind panic every time the ball was played in.
4 goals later and Cody just standing there like a tool waiting for it all to happen. Serious questions to be answered here?
Was Cusack the mastermind here? Maybe it's time Cody gave him a ring.

Holden wasn't great, either was Murphy in goals but lets not go overboard with kneejerk reactions.

Clare got the breaks around the house and got the goals when they broke.

I'm not to crucify any of the best who had a poor showing yesterday.

Even King Henry had the odd bad game!!!!

mountgomery burns

Topcat32 wrote: »

I guess he doesnt get as excited about league matches as Waterford people do. Another pitch invasion planned for two weeks time? Dont stop believing.

A big man, fairplay to you.

Michael Kavanagh

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Maybe he didn't care? He's not above criticism but to be honest its the first time I've seen a Kilkenny full back isolated in 6 years. Don't think that happens by accident, don't think Clare did anything others haven't tried.

I doubt if Cody would ring him, our goalie was at fault for two of them coming out like he did the one where Jackie pulled up that should have been saved the last one was a rasper .

Topcat32

mountgomery burns wrote: »

A big man, fairplay to you.

Well if you ask a stupid question...

Michael Kavanagh

Topcat32 wrote: »

The minor hurlers are playing this weekend, I know Tommy Walsh, Darren Mullen and Joe Connolly are underage this year, anybody else to look out for?

Is that young Cuddihy lad from the shamrock on it

The Dickler

Topcat32 wrote: »

Well if you ask a stupid question...

I was only asking what all the neutrals were thinking?

Maybe you're right. It was only a little lapse.
Also they were very rough yesterday weren't they?

pat 22

The Dickler wrote: »

I was only asking what all the neutrals were thinking?

Maybe you're right. It was only a little lapse.
Also they were very rough yesterday weren't they?

Have an ould Blaa there lad. Ur getting a bit carried away !!

Topcat32

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Is that young Cuddihy lad from the shamrock on it

He is overage I believe, They got to the final of the Arrabawn tournament 2 years ago, without Tommy Walsh or Mullen. Beaten by Dublin after extra time.

jeff bingham

Darren and Adrian mullen both on it Not sure if there's any other shamrock lads after that. Jesus can't believe tommy Walsh is underage again. Seen him hurl with tullaroan 2 years ago and was at centre back last year in a few matches. Fair going to be centre back in an adult team in fifth year! (And no I'm not mixing up tommys....)

droppingball

Any word on Kieran Joyce injury, seemed to be in a lot of pain leaving the field. It will be interesting to see if he lines out for the rower and also if Jackie/Larkin/the fennellys/fogarty will line out for their clubs.

Just noted over the league how much better Brian Kennedy is attacking the ball, I wouldn't start him but its a noted improvement on previous years. Another thing is that Cillian Buckleys position is half back facing the ball as he is not half as comfortable in the middle of the field, also Clare used the wings so well that his pace there would be a big help there.

Also thought that Jason Cleere would be around the panel this year, wonder would he be worth taking a look at, haven't seen enough of him but could be another good addition.

Sunday had a real feel that we went out to hurl without any real plan, Cody wouldn't let that happen come championship, hoping it will be the turning point of the year and will focus minds for the rest of the year. If anything its opened things up and the summer will be interesting.

dastardly00

Here are some simple stats for the 2016 League campaign.
(Apologies for the inevitable errors!)



Similar stats for the 2015 and 2014 campaigns can be found here and here respectively.

Cornerback1

droppingball wrote: »

Any word on Kieran Joyce injury, seemed to be in a lot of pain leaving the field. It will be interesting to see if he lines out for the rower and also if Jackie/Larkin/the fennellys/fogarty will line out for their clubs.

Just noted over the league how much better Brian Kennedy is attacking the ball, I wouldn't start him but its a noted improvement on previous years. Another thing is that Cillian Buckleys position is half back facing the ball as he is not half as comfortable in the middle of the field, also Clare used the wings so well that his pace there would be a big help there.

Also thought that Jason Cleere would be around the panel this year, wonder would he be worth taking a look at, haven't seen enough of him but could be another good addition.

Sunday had a real feel that we went out to hurl without any real plan, Cody wouldn't let that happen come championship, hoping it will be the turning point of the year and will focus minds for the rest of the year. If anything its opened things up and the summer will be interesting.

Yeah, I think it was a good wake up call in April although I think that if a team tried to score the 2 goals like that again, they couldn't. Murphy should have stopped the one at his near post also.

Clare's 4th goal was an excellent strike and keeper could do nothing really.

So all in all, it has happened and maybe that's no bad thing. The mix up between Murphy and Holden was the game changer.

tbiggertycome

Interesting stats there, we've 33 lads who've been used for match day panels. 29 have had playing time and 27 have started a game. I think this is a natural reflection on the fact that there has been a dirth of talent at the U21 grade for the last 3 years. Fortunately that should change this year we should have a very competitive U21 team for the next 3-5 years given the talent coming up behind last years U21s. However those guys will need a bit of time to get used to the rigors of senior hurling which is very different to what their used to. Obviously we've seen Blanchfield this year so far but there are many more that are in on the panel who I would hope will step up to the level, after the training they will have had with the lads this year. Sean Morrisey, Jason Cleere, Evan Cody along with many others will need a bit more time before their ready but I would expect one or two to challenge for spots next year.

The game on Sunday was disappointing if not totally surprising given the team we had out and who we were missing. How it unfolded and some of the decisions made and tactics employed on both sides I wouldn't have expected.

There were a couple of things that I believe were the winning of the game for Clare. They all stemmed from the goals and our inability to win any ball in the forwards in the first 20mins or so. What I noticed within a few minutes of the start of the game was our forwards were winning no aerial ball sent into them. The reason they weren't is that the Clare marker was solely trying to put our lad off winning the ball. In effect what they did was very clever (the dark arts of) defending that Donal Og rallied against in all his time on the Sunday game. A bit hypocritical from him but they were there to win the game and it worked out well for them. What I noticed was just as our lads were about to jump, so the legs were bent and they were about to spring off the gound, the Clare marker would step across the Kilkenny lad or into his back. TJ, Walter, Richie or any of the others then had to correct their balance but never got off the ground losing the vast majority of the aerial ball. This has very evidently been coached into the Clare lads, If it happened the odd time or just one defender was doing it you could say it's just an accident or his style but they were all at it and more power to them they utilised it perfectly. I wouldn't be sure if it's breaking any rules but it definitely feels like it is and to be honest I know if Kilkenny did it we'd be blown up for it and I suppose for me that was a major difference the ref let that go and to be honest he let go all the roughing up as well I saw Bugler with TJ in a head lock twice in the first 15 mins off the ball. I've no issue with the rough stuff as our lads are well able for it but they need to get stronger and time their aerial challenges better to combat this tactic and it is a tactic especially if we're not going to get blown for it.

With all the ball coming straight back down on the defence we were always going to be under huge pressure there and while we were conceding points we were doing alright. Then Murphy had a rush of blood to the head and charged out for the first goal he didn't bat the ball far enough or catch the ball if he wasn't going to do that he should have stayed on his line. The second goal I would normally expect Murphy to stop as well as Cunningham was a fair bit out and he basically hit it straight at Murphy. Again the third goal Murphy should have stayed on his line and the ball could have been dealt with. I don't like being so hard on Murphy because I think he's an excellent keeper and usually makes all the right calls, when to come, when to stay. Murphy's confidence was shot after the second goal he hit a puckout directly over the sideline. We started out with Jackie as the spare man and he picked up a lot of ball in the first ten mins after the first goal or second goal I'm not sure when exactly Padraig Walsh was told to be the free man and he was pushing up something fierce and we weren't making much more head way up front with him but were leaking loads more at the back once he moved off the half back line. Clare were moving their forwards all over the place and we tried to play a bit of zonal and some man marking by the looks of it in the first half and as a result Clare players were getting free of markers all over the place. It's the most confused I've ever seen a Kilkenny defence play in that first half. I thought we did much better in defence once the normal half back line was resumed in the second half. We also started to win a few more balls up front. To be honest I wouldn't be to worried for the Championship, obviously our panel is tight on talent at the minute we've the best 15 and 2 or 3 others on the bench and some great talent but most of it is 19 to 20 or younger so we'll have to bridge this gap over the next year or two until the younger lads are ready to push through. Once they start coming I would see lads like Conor Martin, Joe Lyng, Conor O'Shea, Michael Malone, John Power, Jojoe Farrell, Diarmuid Cody and Brian Kennedy all struggling to get a spot even Kevin Kelly could be in that bunch if he doesn't toughen up.

Performances from Sunday rated
Eoin Murphy- 3- worst I've ever seen from him but he'll be back
Jackie Tyrrell- 6- I don't think Jackie was as bad as many seem to on here I was watching him closely until he went off and until he pulled the hammy I thought he was doin ok. Peope seem to be looking at him and no matter what he does or doesn't do they just have it in their heads he's past it. He may well be but I haven't seen proof of it yet.
Brian Kennedy- 6- struggled to get on the ball but did ok when he came in
Joey Houlden- 6- I actually think he did ok given how much the defence was in disarray and having Murphy run into him for 2 of the goals.
Shane Prendergast -5- saw very little of him and he got on very little ball.
Padraig Walsh -6- he ran all over and as alway I'd give him 10 for effort but a huge amount of his effort was fruitless.
Kieran Joyce -7- stood up well in my opinion and did as much as possible given the acres of room eitherside of him particularly in the first half.
Conor O'Shea -4- really struggled and was led all over the field how he was left on so long I'll never know I honestly can think of only one time he touched the ball.
Lester Ryan -7- did as well as could be expected in the circumstances and helped out massively all over the field he's form this league has been superb.
Cillian Buckley -6- he was a bit lost in the first half looked far more comfortable in the second half at half back
Walter Walsh -6- tried realyl hard very little came off for him but he caused them lots of trouble just not enough of it ended up with scores
TJ Reid -7- even given how he was shackeled he still tried his heart out and was driving the lads on he's a definite leader now as well
Kevin Kelly -5- thought he was very quite you'd struggle to know he was even playing at times couldn't get on the ball and when he did very little came of it other than a turn over
Richie Hogan -6- just about a 6 like all the lads under huge pressure but not enough end product
JJ Farrell -8- was the one forward who looked happy that Clare were playing the physical way they were, he loved it had had he's best game for Kilkenny unfortunately not enough ball went into him
J Power -7- I know he scored very little and should have done more but firstly he was actually catching balls and he was throwing himself around a bit and won two frees as well. When other couldn't win aerial ball he did for once.

I think the 3 league games with the clubs now will refresh the lads and we'll be in fine shape for the championship providing we can get 3 or 4 lads back.

Cornerback1

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Interesting stats there we've 33 lads who've been used for match day panels. 29 have had playing time and 27 have started a game. I think this is a natural reflection on the fact that there has been a dirth of talent at the U21 grade for the last 3 years. Fortunately that should change this year we should have a very competitive U21 team for the next 3-5 years given the talent coming up behind the last years team. However those guys will need a bit of time to get used to the rigors of senior hurling which is very different to what their used to. Obviously we've seen Blanchfield this year so far but there are many more that are in on the panel which I would hope they will step up to the level after the training they will have had with the lads this year. Sean Morrisey, Jason Cleere, Evan Cody along with many others will need a bit more time before their ready but I would expect one or two to challenge for spots next year.

The game on Sunday was dissappointing if not altogether surprising given the team we had out and who we were missing. How it unfolded and some of the decisions made and tactics emplyed on both sides I wouldn't have expected.

There were a couple of things that I believe were the winning of the game for Clare and they all stemmed from the goals and our inability to win any ball in the forwards in the first 20mins or so. What I noticed within a few minutes of the start of the game was our forwards were winning no aerial ball sent into them. The reason they weren't is that the Clare marker was solely trying to put our lad off winning the ball. In effect what they did was very clever and was the dark arts of the defending that Donal Og rallied against in all his time on the Sunday game a bit hypocritical but they were there to win the game and it worked out will for them. What I noticed was just as our lads were about to jump so the legs were bent and they were about to spring up the Clare marker would step across the Kilkenny lad or into his back. TJ Walter Richie or any of the others then had to correct their balance but never got off the ground losing the vast majority of the aerial ball. This has very evidently been coached into the Clare lads as If it happened the odd time or just one defender was doing it I could say it's just an accident or his style but they were all at it and more power to them they utilised it perfectly. I wouldn't be sure if it's breaking any rules but it definitely fells like it is and to be honest I know if Kilkenny did it we'd be blown up for it and I suppose for me that was a major difference the ref let that go and to be honest he left all the roughing up as well I saw Bugler with TJ in a head lock twice in the first 15 mins off the ball. I've no issue with the rough stuff as our lads are well able for it and they need to get stronger and time their aerial challenges better to combat this tactic and it is a tactic especially if we're not going to get a free for it.

With all the ball coming straight back down on the defence we were always going to be under huge pressure there and while we were consceding points we were doing alright. Then Murphy had a rush of blood to the head and charged out for the first goal he didn't bat the ball far enough or catch the ball if he wasn't going to do that he should have stayed on his line. The second goal I would normally expect Murphy to stop as well as Cunningham was a fair bit out and he basically hit it straight at Murphy. Again the third goal Murphy should have stayed on his line and the ball could have been dealt with. I don't like being so hard on Murphy because I think he's an excellent keeper and usually makes all the right calls when to come when to stay. Murphy's confidence was shot after the second goal he hit a puckout directly over the sideline. We started out with Jackie as the spare man and he picked up a lot of ball in the first ten mins after the first goal or second goal I'mm not sure when exactly Padraig Walsh was told to be the free man and he was pushing up something fierce and we weren't making much more head way up front but were leaking loads more at the back once he moved off the half back line. Clare were moving their forwards all over the place and we tried to play a bit of zonal and some man marking by the looks of it in the first half and as a result players were getting free of markers all over the place. It's the most confused I've ever seen Kilkenny defence play in that first half. I thought we did much better in defence once the normal half back line was resumed in the second half. We also started to win a few more balls up front. To be honest I wouldn't be to worried for the Championship, obviously our panel is tight on talent at the minute we've the best 15 and 2 or 3 others on the bench and some great talent but most of it is 19 to 20 or younger so we'll have to bridge this gap over the next year or two until the younger lads are ready to push through. Once they start coming I would see lads like Conor Martin, Joe Lyng, Conor O'Shea, Michael Malone, John Power, Jojoe Farrell, Diarmuid Cody and Brian Kennedy all struggling to get a spot even Kevin Kelly could be in that bunch if he doesn't toughen up.

Performances from Sunday rated
Eoin Murphy- 3- worst I've ever seen from him but he'll be back
Jackie Tyrrell- 6- I don't think Jackie was as bad as many seem to on here I was watching him closely until he went off and until he pulled the hammy I thought he was doin ok. Peope seem to be looking at him and no matter what he does or doesn't do they just have it in their heads he's past it. He may well be but I haven't seen proof of it yet.
Brian Kennedy- 6- struggled to get on the ball but did ok when he came in
Joey Houlden- 6- I actually think he did ok given how much the defence was in disarray and having Murphy run into him for 2 of the goals.
Shane Prendergast -5- saw very little of him and he got on very little ball.
Padraig Walsh -6- he ran al over and as alway I'd give him 10 for effort but a huge amount of his effort was fruitless.
Kieran Joyce -7- stood up well in my opinion and did as much as possible given the acres of room eitherside of him particularly in the first half.
Conor O'Shea -4- really struggled and was led all over the field how he was left on so long I'll never know I honestly can think of only one time he touched the ball.
Lester Ryan -7- did as well as could be expected in the circumstances and helped out massively all over the field he's form this league has been superb.
Cillian Buckley -6- he was a bit lost in the first half looked far more comfortable in the second half at half back
Walter Walsh -6- tried reall hard very little came off for him but he caused them lots of trouble just not enough of it ended up with scores
TJ Reid -7- even given how he was shackeled he still tried his heart out and was driving the lads on he's a definite leader now as well
Kevin Kelly -5- thought he was very quite you'd struggle to know he was even playing at times couldn't get on the ball and when he did very little came of it other than a turn over
Richie Hogan -6- just about a 6 like all the lads under huge pressure but not enough end product
JJ Farrell -8- was the one forward who looked happy that Clare were playing the way physical way they were, he loved it had had he's best game for Kilkenny unfortunately not enough ball went into him
J Power -7- I know he scored very little and should have done more but firstly he was actually catching balls and he was throwing himself around a bit and won two frees as well. when other couldn't win aerial ball he did for once.

I think the 3 league games with the clubs now will refresh the lads and we'll be in fine shape for the championship providing we can get 3 or 4 lads back.

I think our forwards, in the first half anyway, were in a bit of disarray also.

Clare were very quick on their own puck out. Their half backs were in their half forward line as such, our half forwards (Wally and Kevin Kelly) had to retreat back into our half back line.

Ceist_Beag

PáircLife wrote: »

There is just no interest in football. It doesn't compare to hurling as a spectacle. You can't force football on kids who have zero interest in it! And why would they have interest? You'd fall asleep watching it!

See that's the kind of BS I hate. As a blow in living in KK from a football county, I can tell you that kids enjoy playing football - in fact I would go so far as to say they enjoy it every bit as much as hurling. The problem is not the kids. It's the county board, clubs and parents who are the issue here. There is absolutely no good reason for football not being strong up to minor level in this county other than a complete lack of interest from the adults in facilitating it, it's as simple as that.
I would love to know how it can change but in the meantime I'll be doing my bit at a local level.

Realt Dearg Sec

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

See that's the kind of BS I hate. As a blow in living in KK from a football county, I can tell you that kids enjoy playing football - in fact I would go so far as to say they enjoy it every bit as much as hurling. The problem is not the kids. It's the county board, clubs and parents who are the issue here. There is absolutely no good reason for football not being strong up to minor level in this county other than a complete lack of interest from the adults in facilitating it, it's as simple as that.
I would love to know how it can change but in the meantime I'll be doing my bit at a local level.

I wasn't going to post about this football stuff again, but I kind of want to get it off my chest, now that the trolls have gone back under their rock.

First of all, good to hear you're helping out, best of luck to you with it. I think beyond the joking and what have you, most KK people would like to see us being a bit more respectable at the football. I don't see that it needs to have any effect on the quality of the hurlers we're producing. If anything, it would have a benefit in terms of fitness.

Regarding the interest, of course, you can't force parents to put their energy into a sport they don't care about. The impetus to improve has to come from elsewhere. I think it's reasonable enough to say that the county board could be doing a lot more than they are. (Again, I say this from the perspective of someone who honestly couldn't care less about football himself, but still, providing the resources and encouragement is not too hard).

But at inter-county level the CB can't seem to win with the critics. I remember up until a couple of years ago, the usual trolling that we got on internet boards was that "of course ye are good at hurling because you don't put out a football team". That is a flawed argument for various reasons that we have all rehearsed enough at this stage (the fact that other counties all have pockets of hurling in them, the fact that there's a whole heap of counties as bad at hurling as each other giving a false sense that they are putting in more effort than KK, etc etc etc). More recently this argument has morphed into a conspiracy theory, that our CB are taking huge football funding and diverting it into hurling. We had someone on here calling for an investigation, ffs.

Of course this is just a new version of the old argument, and it remains a total fact free zone. I would be happy to see the figures for football funding to KK released, and a transparent account of where it is spent. My suspicion is that we would have no case to answer. But it would be good to clear up the issue all the same. As we've seen, the funding argument is just a stalking horse for having a go at our hurling success, by and large those pedalling it have no interest, whatsoever, in football in Kilkenny. I suspect most of them have no interest in football anywhere else either. But they like to downplay the extraordinary success of our hurlers. Which is understandable, because we're absolutely class.

Often, and last week was no exception, someone will come out and say that we are disrespecting the competition fielding teams like this, and just shouldn't bother (an extension of the "it's just about getting funds" argument). But when we HAVE done that, the same trolls will be on saying that sure, of course we are successful at hurling, we don't even send out a team to get their arses handed to them every year. So you can't win.

The CB did the absolutely right thing by entering the team in the British junior championship. As sad as it is to say, that is the level which we are at, and so they entered them where they'd be competitive (and they were very competitive, but divil a word I heard from the trolls about that at the time). Meanwhile, though, the minors are still forced to go up against teams they have no business on the same field as. So maybe that's where the problem should be identified.

Meantime some proper investment of time and energy in football at underage would pay quick dividends. We aren't genetically incapable of football. But to an extent that I think is not true for any other county, the entire identity of KK as a place, as a community, is bound up in hurling. There's no point pretending that this is a conspiracy against football, it is just the way things have developed. The problems facing football in KK don't stem so much from deliberate suppression (though there's probably a fair bit of that, same as there is in pretty much every club and county in Ireland) as from neglect, because nobody's identity is bound up in the sport in that way. We can do better than a 77 point hiding, but what annoys me is the total incapacity of those criticising KK to detach that argument from the success of the hurlers. They are different things. But as I say, those people aren't actually interested in KK football, they are only interested in denigrating the hurling.

If we want a serious discussion about developing football in KK, then grand, but something tells me the trolls who were here last week won't be too involved in that debate. As it happens, of course, it's people like yourself, Ceist Beag, who will be at the centre of any such discussion. And you'll have a major uphill battle.

But yeah, the idea that KK kids are intrinsically not interested in football is not realistic. They aren't interested because nobody is interesting them in it. (And, again, disclaimer: I'm absolutely not interested in it)

Ceist_Beag

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I don't see that it needs to have any effect on the quality of the hurlers we're producing. If anything, it would have a benefit in terms of fitness.

See this is exactly it. They don't conflict with each other, they actually compliment each other. This is why it is so frustrating to see absolutely zero interest in promoting the football at a younger age.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The CB did the absolutely right thing by entering the team in the British junior championship. As sad as it is to say, that is the level which we are at, and so they entered them where they'd be competitive (and they were very competitive, but divil a word I heard from the trolls about that at the time). Meanwhile, though, the minors are still forced to go up against teams they have no business on the same field as. So maybe that's where the problem should be identified.

Agreed on the adult team Realt but I cannot accept that a minor team cannot compete against other counties. We're talking about Wexford here - another county where hurling is strong. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to compete with them at underage level imho. The reason is obvious that secondary schools and clubs do not bother with the sport but I don't buy the argument that they cannot put time into both football and hurling without hurting hurling. The biggest problem seems to be getting coaches and parents to actually see that.

kk1970

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

See that's the kind of BS I hate. As a blow in living in KK from a football county, I can tell you that kids enjoy playing football - in fact I would go so far as to say they enjoy it every bit as much as hurling. The problem is not the kids. It's the county board, clubs and parents who are the issue here. There is absolutely no good reason for football not being strong up to minor level in this county other than a complete lack of interest from the adults in facilitating it, it's as simple as that.
I would love to know how it can change but in the meantime I'll be doing my bit at a local level.

I am a parent of a few kids and we are living in kilkenny, I don't mind saying I have zero interest in football in kilkenny. Also don't try and force me to make the kids play it I could'nt care less about football. It's hurling 1st ,2nd,3rd, bit of soccer then maybe an odd mess around playing football

Faugheen

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

See this is exactly it. They don't conflict with each other, they actually compliment each other. This is why it is so frustrating to see absolutely zero interest in promoting the football at a younger age.


Agreed on the adult team Realt but I cannot accept that a minor team cannot compete against other counties. We're talking about Wexford here - another county where hurling is strong. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to compete with them at underage level imho. The reason is obvious that secondary schools and clubs do not bother with the sport but I don't buy the argument that they cannot put time into both football and hurling without hurting hurling. The biggest problem seems to be getting coaches and parents to actually see that.

Exactly this. As someone who played minor football for Kilkenny, it's a simple fact that the adults involved have little interest in facilitating football in the county past u14s.

There are numerous talented footballers in the county. If there was any interest in implementing football in Kilkenny then they'd at least be competitive in Division 4 at adult level. The team has won games in the League in the last 10 years, the fall the county has taken has been awful.

I feel bad for the 15 boys who took to that field in a complete mismatch, but it should never have been a mismatch. As the OP said, there's no reason why Kilkenny can't at least be competitive at minor level. I don't think anybody expects Kilkenny to put all their resources into football, but a time needs to come where young lads are being humiliated through no fault of their own. Why do the county board insist on entering a team? For funding?

If there's no interest in coaches/parents/county board to promote the game then they need to stop entering teams to get funding. It's not fair on those young lads who would have returned to schoolyesterday a laughing stock, and it's a disgrace that it's allowed happen.

Either make a real effort to make teams competitive or pull out the team. That's the way I look at it.

Cornerback1

According to Hogan Stand, James Maher is gone for the season. Fractured kneecap.

Unlucky on the young lad.

Realt Dearg Sec

Faugheen wrote: »

If there's no interest in coaches/parents/county board to promote the game then they need to stop entering teams to get funding.

Again with the funding. It used to be that when we didn't field teams, people would claim we were SAVING money by not doing it, then using the savings to fund hurling. Now we are GAINING money by fielding and using the funds for hurling. So, whether they play or not, the case against them is identical. Which is it?

Ceist_Beag

kk1970 wrote: »

I am a parent of a few kids and we are living in kilkenny, I don't mind saying I have zero interest in football in kilkenny. Also don't try and force me to make the kids play it I could'nt care less about football. It's hurling 1st ,2nd,3rd, bit of soccer then maybe an odd mess around playing football

... which is fair enough except I really don't understand the sentiment "don't try and force me to make the kids play it". Could you not actually let your kids decide for themselves if they like it ... and if they do could you not find it in your heart to actually support them in that and encourage them if you see that they have an interest in it? I don't like ballet or swimming but if any of my kids want to have a go and show an interest I'll damn well do my best by them to encourage and support them as much as I can. This idea that "I have no interest in football so that's it as far as our house goes" is pretty sad I have to say.

bruschi

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Again with the funding. It used to be that when we didn't field teams, people would claim we were SAVING money by not doing it, then using the savings to fund hurling. Now we are GAINING money by fielding and using the funds for hurling. So, whether they play or not, the case against them is identical. Which is it?

I would have been one of the ones who spoke about the funding aspect previously. whether or not you believe it is out of jealousy as you mentioned earlier is your own opinion. To be honest, I couldnt give a crap if Kilkenny play football or not, it's absolutely their own decision. But they have done, and continue to enter teams into development squad tournaments at U14/15/16 for football but yet do not fully participate. By this, in some cases they will play in the first organised blitz and after that they may not participate again for the rest of the year in any of the other arranged ones. I saw Kilkenny play in an U14 blitz 3 years ago and ran a Wexford B team close and I think may have beaten Wicklow, I dont quite remember. But they werent bad. But they didnt play again that year.

Now you may say so what, they enter a team and thats that. But if you take that the average cost for attending a blitz is €2k (between bus, food and any other expenses), by not entering 2 or 3 blitzes at 3 age groups means they can save on that expense.

However, the Leinster grant money goes through on application, not on participation. So if Kilkenny fill the forms that they are entering a team, that's it, the money goes through. I have been at other blitzes where Kilkenny were to be involved but never showed up.

So, what money do they get. I dont know. I dont have their accounts. What I do know is that Wexford got €85k in recent years for Games Development, which is effectively the Development squad grant. That is to cover all age groups in both codes. I'd be surprised if that is not a standard across the board figure for all counties in Leinster. Wexford mainly spent more than that for their squads (4 age groups at hurling, 3 at football, taking an average of 4 blitzes each is approx €60k, plus other trips, gear, food, training venues etc). You take away the 3 football age groups, and there is a considerable amount of additional money that can be diverted to hurling.

Now I dont know either what the split is from Leinster if they have one for only picking one code over the other. Maybe they do, maybe they dont.

However, my main issue is that Kilkenny do get funding for football, but they do not spend it on the development of that. And its not that it is helping hurling, they would be good regardless of the income or not, but they have money there to spend on football and help the very small minority who actually might want to play it, but they do not give them that support that they could if they really wanted.

I know plenty of lads who played football for Kilkenny. I played with some of them and they were as good a footballer as youd find. 9 of that squad Saturday are in Good Counsel and play in there. Some of them have Leinster an all Ireland medals for football. There is quality there enough that what happened Saturday should not have occurred.

If Kilkenny arent bothered with football at underage, then forget about it. Sending lambs out for the slaughter to tick boxes in HQ in Portlaoise so the cheques are issued is not fair on those lads getting destroyed.

JJs Left Hand

Couple of things on the football argument:

At extreme youth level, I'm talking ages 6-12, training in football is a great tool for improving hand-eye co-ordination, positional sense and movement skills. I coach my kids in football exclusively from about October - February. Most kids only do it to keep active. A lot don't bother showing up. There are schools competitions however there is no Go Games model for football like there is in hurling. We are asked to play 10 minutes of football after each hurling game during the summer. This is mandatory but most of the time it doesn't happen. When they play football they generally enjoy it however once the hurls come out it all changes and its all they want to do.
It's a culture thing. As said above Kilkenny and hurling are intrinsically linked. Kids are surrounded by hurling so its a self fulfilling prophecy that will constantly get re-inforced.

To the people saying that we should be at least competitive at minor grade. This is bull****. With the advancements in training methods and near professionalism even at minor level you'd need to have a panel of 30 kids aged 13 now and build them for 5 years to make them competitive. The idea that you can just do it within a year or 2 is wrong. We could've taken those same footballers and trained them like dogs for the last 3 months and they might only have lost by 60 points. Hurling and football training methods are really not that similar. Football is like long distance running to hurling being about sprinting. It's a completely different kind of fitness and a completely different kind of strength needed. It's naive to think you can marry the 2.


As a coach, in an ideal world I'd be able to coach my team in both codes simultaneously. That's just unrealistic however. If I want these lads to be competitive even at Go Games level I have to dedicate any time I have to improving their hurling skills. If I start splitting time between codes they'll get blown out of the water in the hurling and it'll destroy their confidence.

Michael Kavanagh

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

See this is exactly it. They don't conflict with each other, they actually compliment each other. This is why it is so frustrating to see absolutely zero interest in promoting the football at a younger age.


Agreed on the adult team Realt but I cannot accept that a minor team cannot compete against other counties. We're talking about Wexford here - another county where hurling is strong. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to compete with them at underage level imho. The reason is obvious that secondary schools and clubs do not bother with the sport but I don't buy the argument that they cannot put time into both football and hurling without hurting hurling. The biggest problem seems to be getting coaches and parents to actually see that.

Wexford wouldn't like to hear you say that they have there own issues with the two codes down there, I don't know where you would start as a sport I think it is very slow it would put you to sleep.

Michael Kavanagh

Cornerback1 wrote: »

According to Hogan Stand, James Maher is gone for the season. Fractured kneecap.

Unlucky on the young lad.

He must have been more serious than they thought because I was talking to somebody from Freshford last Saturday they were saying it would be two months .

Hawkeye6

Leinster Minor Football Championship Results 2016

28/02/2016 Kilkenny 6-9 Longford 1-1
06/02/2016 Kilkenny 4-5 Louth 2-7
See leinsterladiesgaelic.ie

Yes, It is ladies Football, but the same comparison can be drawn with ladies football and camogie in Kilkenny. Camogie has a huge precedence. However, the point is... you can be competitive in both.

The blame lies with the clubs. Look at the number of walk overs clubs are giving in the championships/leagues on the Kilkenny GAA website. County board sets up plenty of fixtures but clubs are refusing to play "ball". How many clubs are promoting football? Maybe their funding or All-Ireland ticket supply should be cut. I heard of one club who recently trained hurling for the hour immediately before the throw in of a football championship game.!!

adrian522

The solution shouldn't always be to cut funding. What will that achieve? At club level or at county level?

Seems like more of a punishment to me than any sort of solution. I mean you cut the funding, what happens then, does this help football? Does it harm hurling? What is the objective of people who arguing for funding to be cut. All it would mean is no football teams would be entered into competitions.

bruschi

adrian522 wrote: »

The solution shouldn't always be to cut funding. What will that achieve? At club level or at county level?

Seems like more of a punishment to me than any sort of solution. I mean you cut the funding, what happens then, does this help football? Does it harm hurling? What is the objective of people who arguing for funding to be cut. All it would mean is no football teams would be entered into competitions.

I dont particularly want to keep this going,as I'm not from Kilkenny so dont really want to be going on and on in your thread. But I'd agree. I dont agree with cutting funding. But if they arent going to enter the football teams properly and use that funding for that, then dont bother with it. It might be better in the long run, the devotion given to football is absolute minimal anyway, so just cut it off. however, if they do want to keep it going, and keep the funding coming for it, then they should be making a better effort with it. I think Leinster council need to step in, if they and Kilkenny want, and appoint a football development officer and try promote the game and spend the funding wisely on improving it in the county.

The big thing there though is if they want to. I dont really see anything that says anyone in KK co board or in the majority of the county actually want it. And there are plenty of counties playing football. Its the less than half hearted effort and putting teams out for the sake of fulfilling requirements is what would annoy me most.

citykat

Busy weekend ahead. Minors are out in their first game of the season. Thought the team would've been announced by now. Clubs also kick off their campaigns. Personally only interested in how the IC absentees are fixed.

citykat

Is it too late to get this thread renamed the Kilkenny Hurling thread? If yes, whoever starts the next thread please note.

Michael Kavanagh

citykat wrote: »

Busy weekend ahead. Minors are out in their first game of the season. Thought the team would've been announced by now. Clubs also kick off their campaigns. Personally only interested in how the IC absentees are fixed.

How do you think results will go this weekend a lot of clubs are down players.It is suprising that the minor team is not picked yet.

droppingball

Senior

Mullinavat V Danesfort, Mullinavat by 1 with Paul Murphy out
Clara V Ballyhale, Clara by 3, Shamrocks could be without a few but could be a corker
Comer v O Loughlins, O Loughlins by 2
Village v BBridge Bridge by 6 Village missing a few and were poor last year whilst BBridge will be full of confidence
Fenians v Rower Rower by 3 tight to call with Joyce possibly out
St Martins v Dicksboro Dicksboro by 1

Intermediate

Tullogher v St Lactains, ST Lactains by 4
Lisdowney v Carrickshock, Cshock by 5 Should have the know how
Thomastown v Dunamaggin, Ttown by 2
Graigballycallan v Glenmore Draw Glenmore should be brimming with confidence but GBC won't lie down easy
Tullaroan v Gowran Tullaroan by 1
Conahy v St Patricks St Patricks by 5, should be skin and hair flying in this one.

Tough on the minors as many of them will end up playing twice, a lot of them would be starting for the intermediate teams anyway. Hopefully they can get off to a good start, it will be interesting to see the line up, up to a few weeks ago I heard the competition for places on the team is more intense than in other years so hopefully this will also serve them well.

brookville

Heard rob lennon done his cruiciate any truth in this?