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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***
Comments
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Whatever you say about the new inter county format, there is one huge plus to it, and that is that everyone knows when they’re playing.
At minor level, the change to U17 shouldn’t affect the adult club sides in terms of players available.
Within the county, there are 12 teams at each level, and then we go into Junior A & B at club level in Kilkenny.
Now given that, and that almost certainly that the county team is picked from the top 3 grades, I have an idea.
Change the format of the championship structure for the clubs to a full round robin.
County Championship
- 11 rounds, every team plays each other once.
- The QF’s would be based on your final standing, 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 and 4v5. The winners would obviously advance to the SF’s.
Relegation Final
- Teams 11 & 12 would playoff to see who goes down. The winner would go to the county shield.
County Shield
- The 4 losing QF teams would join teams 9 & 10 and the winners of the relegation final in the court shield. The best placed QF loser in the round robin would be seeded in the SF. The other 6 sides would play QF’s.
Here’s the thing though. The last two round robin rounds and all the Knockout games would be scheduled for after the AI final in the possibility we might get there. For the other 9 rounds, play them from April to August, at pre-determined dates, but have it so the county players are available for 4 rounds of the 9, with the clubs fulfilling 5 rounds without the county players. Once the schedule is fixed and we know what rounds the county lads will be available, then make the fixture list for the clubs.
We’d still have 6 rounds and all knockout games with the county players on show, which is actually more than we have now, but the club players would have more meaningful games.
This is very similar to the arrangement in Monaghan which got a lot of publicity in the last few weeks. League games with and without county players. I agree it is the way forward however there are a few areas where the above could and indeed would need to be altered. Just having the same points on offer for league games with & without county players would be unfair on some clubs - those clubs with more on county senior/under 21 panels. For example Mullinavat have nobody on the current senior panel so essentially would be playing all their games with a full strength set up. The likes of the Boro, Shamrocks have 2 or 3 on senior panels etc. Likewise at intermediate some teams such as Freshford, Tullaroan, Glenmore have 2 & 3 on panels whereas likes of Fenians, St. Martins have none. The solution in Monaghan was to award 5 points for a win in those games involving the county players & 2 points for the games excluding county players.
Furthermore, Kilkenny could not even manage two games this season from April to August so there is not a prayer of 4 being arranged next year. The solution would be to play 2 with county players in April, play all those league games without county players for the remainder of the summer and play the balance of 3 plus knockouts once the Inter county season is completed.
Restricting the relegation to the bottom 2 has the danger of some games near the end of the league being meaningless so keeping the current set up of bottom 4 being in relegation would be preferable.
In my opinion a losers shield would be pointless as once teams are gone out of the championship it would be next or impossible to gain interest for a losers shield competition.
Likewise every team has the right to enter the championship - in your proposal teams 9/10/11/12 are essentially excluded from the championship after the league element. The current arrangements of top 4 into QF, bottom 4 first round relegation, middle 4 first round knockout allows all teams to be still in the championship but rewards sufficiently league placings.
One further point - the new Inter county set up has not allowed players know exactly when they are playing. Club players remain awaiting county teams progress in order to know when club championships will take place. So this huge plus you referred to is non existent! Credit for the proposal. It is certainly a vast step up on the current mess.0 -
babyjesus14 wrote: »Jesus wept the Galway County hurling board are being held up as purveyors of best practice! This is the same board that is pretty much broke from nonsensical attempt at building a centre of excellence despite the fact one already exists in the county. They also decided this week that the 2017 Under 21 Roinn A championship will not be completed as four months into 2018 they were still stuck at the quarter final stages, probably some thing to do with the fact that their wasn't a single senior club match played in the county for the best part of 4 months last summer.
Save your tears baby. Galway county board have to accomodate football and hurling. That'll cause delays. Thankfully in Kilkenny we dont have that problem.0 -
Whatever you say about the new inter county format, there is one huge plus to it, and that is that everyone knows when they’re playing.
At minor level, the change to U17 shouldn’t affect the adult club sides in terms of players available.
Within the county, there are 12 teams at each level, and then we go into Junior A & B at club level in Kilkenny.
Now given that, and that almost certainly that the county team is picked from the top 3 grades, I have an idea.
Change the format of the championship structure for the clubs to a full round robin.
County Championship
- 11 rounds, every team plays each other once.
- The QF’s would be based on your final standing, 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 and 4v5. The winners would obviously advance to the SF’s.
Relegation Final
- Teams 11 & 12 would playoff to see who goes down. The winner would go to the county shield.
County Shield
- The 4 losing QF teams would join teams 9 & 10 and the winners of the relegation final in the court shield. The best placed QF loser in the round robin would be seeded in the SF. The other 6 sides would play QF’s.
Here’s the thing though. The last two round robin rounds and all the Knockout games would be scheduled for after the AI final in the possibility we might get there. For the other 9 rounds, play them from April to August, at pre-determined dates, but have it so the county players are available for 4 rounds of the 9, with the clubs fulfilling 5 rounds without the county players. Once the schedule is fixed and we know what rounds the county lads will be available, then make the fixture list for the clubs.
We’d still have 6 rounds and all knockout games with the county players on show, which is actually more than we have now, but the club players would have more meaningful games.
The added bonus for the County Board would be the increased revenue, and a set season to keep the clubs happy.
Waste of time IMO!
Some clubs have 3/4 inter county players others have none. As a spectator i would have little interest in other club matches without the county players. Attendances would start to diminish. County players are club players no.1 that is what makes the GAA the establishment it is.
To keep the Club standard as high as it is then the Clubs need there Senior inter county players, u21 to compete in the league /championship. Kilkenny have a fantastic club competition, club weekends are every bit of entertaining as as intercounty weekends.
Another issue, some county players must be fuming with the one Club match, 44/45 on the panel, lot of mouths to feed come game time. A lot of players had very little game time over the last 3 months0 -
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Waste of time IMO!
Some clubs have 3/4 inter county players others have none. As a spectator i would have little interest in other club matches without the county players. Attendances would start to diminish. County players are club players no.1 that is what makes the GAA the establishment it is.
To keep the Club standard as high as it is then the Clubs need there Senior inter county players, u21 to compete in the league /championship. Kilkenny have a fantastic club competition, club weekends are every bit of entertaining as as intercounty weekends.
Another issue, some county players must be fuming with the one Club match, 44/45 on the panel, lot of mouths to feed come game time. A lot of players had very little game time over the last 3 months
You are not really a club man then where does your county player come from the club the grass roots of the gaa croke park seem to be forgetting this like every walk of life they are pushing the player to get more out of them typical board room mentality . You have good points as regards the local championship but it is dissaponting the way things have happened may be some people wouldn't have cared if we won the league but I think the crowd in the park that day showed there gratitude. time will tell if this will work out but as I said above board room mentality in croke park its like the the big shop pushing out your corner shop .0 -
Couldn't let this go. There IS football in Kilkenny, the Quarter Finals of the intermediate championship is on this weekend for example. These are Club matches too. Played by the same players that play hurling. If clubs really wanted matches they would put time into football as well. And don't tell me the lads you are talking about don't like big balls, I guarantee they have no hesitation playing soccer or rugby. The players involve deserve even greater respect. Feile football is also on this weekend and our development squads led by DJ Carey will play Waterford.babyjesus14 wrote: »Jesus wept the Galway County hurling board are being held up as purveyors of best practice! This is the same board that is pretty much broke from nonsensical attempt at building a centre of excellence despite the fact one already exists in the county. They also decided this week that the 2017 Under 21 Roinn A championship will not be completed as four months into 2018 they were still stuck at the quarter final stages, probably some thing to do with the fact that their wasn't a single senior club match played in the county for the best part of 4 months last summer.
Save your tears baby. Galway county board have to accomodate football and hurling. That'll cause delays. Thankfully in Kilkenny we dont have that problem.
Again I would remind you and your cronies, about the Under-19 games this weekend. 15 games to be played (30 clubs). An important age group to provide games for before the exams kick in. Kilkenny way ahead of most in this respect to fill the gap of moving minor to Under-17. You seem to think that Club is Only Senior. You are obviously linked to a city Senior club and that's all you see,
Seeing as you are a strong supporter of Galway GAA, you will surely recall that the 2017 Galway senior hurling final was played in December and the delay had nothing to do with football!! And that's not unusual.
Why do you hate Kilkenny so much? Nothing is perfect, and the parameters were set by others under the name of democracy, but in fairness Kilkenny is still one of the best setups in the country.
On that note, well done to the posters who actually took time to put ideas out there. You are the type of people who should be county board reps, so as things can be discussed and consensus found.0 -
HughCassidy wrote: »You are not really a club man then where does your county player come from the club the grass roots of the gaa croke park seem to be forgetting this like every walk of life they are pushing the player to get more out of them typical board room mentality . You have good points as regards the local championship but it is dissaponting the way things have happened may be some people wouldn't have cared if we won the league but I think the crowd in the park that day showed there gratitude. time will tell if this will work out but as I said above board room mentality in croke park its like the the big shop pushing out your corner shop .
County players come from the many hours spent by volunteers and resources of clubs to make sure these kids can reach there full potential. Many volunteers like myself get get reward from seeing these kids progress to adult level with the club especially, also great to see some play inter county level. I myself love to see these players progress and represent there club and see the club do well at senior level. Then i feel the many hours spent with the youth is not a sacrifice but an investment for the club. The new hurling calendar and talk of players not representing there club and only playing inter county is and would be devastating for clubs all over the country.
How would the underage coaches in Bennettsbridge feel watching the bridge take to the field without therre 4/5 inter county players in league/championship and more than likely getting well bet in every match0 -
As Brian Cody said in an interview just yesterday, Kilkenny voted against the new structure. He's no happier with it than the rest of us and the knock on effect on the Senior/Intermediate club scene in Kilkenny. The bad weather disrupted fixtures and our participation in the League Final further complicated matters. Croke Park must take note and action. The CPA and GPA must do likewise. What did any of them do to lend support to the many hurling counties who foresaw the potential problems and voted against the new structures? And what do the CPA/GPA intend doing about it now? No point in just issuing statements.
It's worth noting that just one round of senior club hurling was played in April in Kilkenny last year. We were to have two rounds in April this year, one of which was postponed due to our involvement in the League Final. Two rounds were played in May last year. As the month of May 2018 is saturated with with the Leinster Championship there was no scope for any club matches. This situation has to be reviewed by Croke Park and it is imperative that the CPA/GPA add more than just their voice to proceedings.
Wexford were complimented on this thread for having club fixtures during April. Well their last club matches took place last weekend and the county's first outing in Leinster is a week after our first outing. Furthermore they headed off to Spain earlier this week for warm weather training, in April!
Roll on the 1st of May when we can put this debacle behind us and look forward in earnest to the Leinster Championship. While in the meantime appreciate the feast of local hurling that goes on regardless.0 -
Couldn't let this go. There IS football in Kilkenny, the Quarter Finals of the intermediate championship is on this weekend for example. These are Club matches too. Played by the same players that play hurling. If clubs really wanted matches they would put time into football as well. And don't tell me the lads you are talking about don't like big balls, I guarantee they have no hesitation playing soccer or rugby. The players involve deserve even greater respect. Feile football is also on this weekend and our development squads led by DJ Carey will play Waterford.
Again I would remind you and your cronies, about the Under-19 games this weekend. 15 games to be played (30 clubs). An important age group to provide games for before the exams kick in. Kilkenny way ahead of most in this respect to fill the gap of moving minor to Under-17. You seem to think that Club is Only Senior. You are obviously linked to a city Senior club and that's all you see,
Seeing as you are a strong supporter of Galway GAA, you will surely recall that the 2017 Galway senior hurling final was played in December and the delay had nothing to do with football!! And that's not unusual.
Why do you hate Kilkenny so much? Nothing is perfect, and the parameters were set by others under the name of democracy, but in fairness Kilkenny is still one of the best setups in the country.
On that note, well done to the posters who actually took time to put ideas out there. You are the type of people who should be county board reps, so as things can be discussed and consensus found.
You're some spoofer. Are you really trying to claim that that football and hurling are given equal prominence in Kilkenny? At what level? Not at club anyway. What's the ratio of training sessions between the codes? Football does not impinge on the hurling schedule at the business end of the competition - never has. I'll be at the football feile Sunday morning for my sins. I know one of the city clubs is going to be understrength due to a soccer match. Seems the players themselves are voting with their feet.0 -
Whatever you say about the new inter county format, there is one huge plus to it, and that is that everyone knows when they’re playing.
Having campaigned strongly against the new system, this was the one crumb of comfort I was left with when the new structure was passed, however unfortuantely this hasn't happened at all, in Tipp we were assured that we would have 5 rounds of club ( 2 football and 3 hurling) played before the 'break' and then back in first weekend in September. Several of our younger players though lovely, train accordingly Jan - March, play the 5 games and after exams etc off to the states for the summer.
What has transpired is 1 football and 2 hurling and at last weeks county board meeting it was announced from the top table that if Tipp are knocked out early the club championships will be brought forward which is obviously unacceptable to the clubs and players and is a shambles.
In one way I'm actually kind of hoping that a few of the high profile hurling counties are not able to complete their championships in time and will not be in a position to put forward a team for the provincial club championships as it will highlight the utter madness of the new structure and calendar and force a rethink to those that voted in favour of it ( the huge majority of whom were football first counties which is another joke). But on the other side I appreciate it would be wholly unfair on the champions in a county that fails to make the deadline.
Be under no illusions and I am not being over dramatic here but the fabric of the organisation that is built around the ethos of the club is in grave grave danger in the next few years, I really hope our new president is cognisant of this fact as direction will need to come from the very top.0 -
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I think we know you are the spoofer who prefers to see lads playing soccer rather than promote Gaelic Football. Prefers the Galway way and has no appreciation for the Kilkenny way. ignores all the relevant points I and other posters have put. Posters who have taken the time to articulate potential solutions. I am proud of Kilkenny, you come across as someone who is not. Do everyone a favour, don't bother going to Feile Football with your sour glare and criticisms of football in Kilkenny. The young players don't need that kind of negative vibe around the place. They deserve the same enthusiasm as the Feile hurlers. Most are the are the same lads.Couldn't let this go. There IS football in Kilkenny, the Quarter Finals of the intermediate championship is on this weekend for example. These are Club matches too. Played by the same players that play hurling. If clubs really wanted matches they would put time into football as well. And don't tell me the lads you are talking about don't like big balls, I guarantee they have no hesitation playing soccer or rugby. The players involve deserve even greater respect. Feile football is also on this weekend and our development squads led by DJ Carey will play Waterford.
Again I would remind you and your cronies, about the Under-19 games this weekend. 15 games to be played (30 clubs). An important age group to provide games for before the exams kick in. Kilkenny way ahead of most in this respect to fill the gap of moving minor to Under-17. You seem to think that Club is Only Senior. You are obviously linked to a city Senior club and that's all you see,
Seeing as you are a strong supporter of Galway GAA, you will surely recall that the 2017 Galway senior hurling final was played in December and the delay had nothing to do with football!! And that's not unusual.
Why do you hate Kilkenny so much? Nothing is perfect, and the parameters were set by others under the name of democracy, but in fairness Kilkenny is still one of the best setups in the country.
On that note, well done to the posters who actually took time to put ideas out there. You are the type of people who should be county board reps, so as things can be discussed and consensus found.
You're some spoofer. Are you really trying to claim that that football and hurling are given equal prominence in Kilkenny? At what level? Not at club anyway. What's the ratio of training sessions between the codes? Football does not impinge on the hurling schedule at the business end of the competition - never has. I'll be at the football feile Sunday morning for my sins. I know one of the city clubs is going to be understrength due to a soccer match. Seems the players themselves are voting with their feet.0 -
I think at inter county finish the league at start of April, start the championship at start of May, play the All Ireland at start of August. Then we have August, Sept and Oct to play the club championship. At least clubs can plan properly that way rather than basically having two seasons in one and club players can plan properly too rather than be in limbo.
Run the club league over the spring/summer without the county players but have some incentive such as the 4 semi finalists are seeded for the championship.0 -
Save your tears baby. Galway county board have to accomodate football and hurling. That'll cause delays. Thankfully in Kilkenny we dont have that problem.
Well if you knew anything about Galway GAA you would know that they're very few dual clubs, both codes are run by separate boards a football board and a hurling board. Some players who want to play both codes actually have to play with different clubs Daithi Burke (Turloughmore and Corofin) and The Mannion brothers(Ahascragh and Caltra) being examples.
But i wouldn't expect you to know that, as you never seem to lets facts get in the way of your ditwitted arguements!0 -
babyjesus14 wrote: »Well if you knew anything about Galway GAA you would know that they're very few dual clubs, both codes are run by separate boards a football board and a hurling board. Some players who want to play both codes actually have to play with different clubs Daithi Burke (Turloughmore and Corofin) and The Mannion brothers(Ahascragh and Caltra) being examples.
But i wouldn't expect you to know that, as you never seem to lets facts get in the way of your ditwitted arguements!
Well baby I honestly couldn't care less who runs the GAA in Galway or what they call themselves. The point still stands. They were happy enough to play a round of club matches last week. For some reason we couldnt do so. I think the decision by whoever it was in Galway was respectful of the clubs and was a positive move. You on the other hand find fault with that decision.0 -
babyjesus14 wrote: »Well if you knew anything about Galway GAA you would know that they're very few dual clubs, both codes are run by separate boards a football board and a hurling board. Some players who want to play both codes actually have to play with different clubs Daithi Burke (Turloughmore and Corofin) and The Mannion brothers(Ahascragh and Caltra) being examples.
But i wouldn't expect you to know that, as you never seem to lets facts get in the way of your ditwitted arguements!
Um.. no. There's only one (county) board in Galway now, not separate ones. Caltra and Ahascragh are separate clubs but of the same parish. Corofin, Turlough different parishes.0 -
Well baby I honestly couldn't care less who runs the GAA in Galway or what they call themselves. The point still stands. They were happy enough to play a round of club matches last week. For some reason we couldnt do so. I think the decision by whoever it was in Galway was respectful of the clubs and was a positive move. You on the other hand find fault with that decision.
So how many rounds have Galway played so far? They had more scope since they exited the league at quarter final stage in any case. I think we all accept that rearranging club fixtures at short notice is unfair to players who have other commitments outside of hurling. They would have known the fixtures months ago and may well have had other arrangements made. Supporters can chose to go along at short notice, unlike the players.
It's a learning situation for all involved since this structure was foisted on counties, many of the hurling counties who voted against it. It's up to the County Boards, the CPA and the GPA to demand change next year and not wait to see this three year trial period out.0 -
A good article from the KP which I think outlines the situation very well.Kilkenny hurling: the big plan will leave club players without matches for who knows how long
John Knox
28 Apr 2018
Email: @kilkennypeoplesport
Kilkenny hurling: the big plan will leave club players without matches for who knows how long
John Lockes (Callan) and St Martin's (Muckalee) provided good fare in the first matches in the IHL but when either side will play again no one knows. The players have been given five weeks off
Kilkenny senior and intermediate clubs are in the dark right now. And there is no one who can turn on the light to help them find the way forward.
The weekend before last the 12 senior and the 12 intermediate clubs involved in the league/championships turned out, all ready, all willing, all firing for the opening action in the competitions.
It was all very good. The matches ran to schedule. Teams and players put in fine efforts.
Okay, by and large the action looked early season stuff, but that’s supposed to be the case.
And clubs, or the vast majority of them, helped with the assembling of the weekend match programme and provided lineouts that were reasonably close to the teams that took the field.
All very good. The clubs looked after their end of the business.
The County Board and referees did the same, and it was good to have the starting times of matches on both Saturday and Sunday staggered so supporters could make their way to a couple of games at their leisure.
Lovely hurling, as they say!
Except it isn’t now. The senior and intermediate clubs, the main clubs in terms of where players are being grooming for the Kilkenny senior team in the immediate future - for the under-21 also; but that local competition won’t start until September - don’t know when the next series of matches will be played.
They have been told it is depends on Kilkenny’s progress in the championship.
Kilkenny are the current National League champions, so it is not unreasonable to think they might do well enough in the championship.
So how might that shape the timeline?
The Leinster championship runs until Sunday, July 1, when the final will be played in Croke Park.
Winners on the day
The All-Ireland championship begins with preliminary quarter-finals on Saturday and Sunday, July 7/8 involving the third placed teams in the Leinster and Munster groups. These games must provide winners on the day.
The All-Ireland quarter-finals involving the runners-up in Leinster and Munster will be played on July 15. The semi-finals are pencilled in for July 28 and 29.
The All-Ireland is fixed for three weeks later, August 19.
With a bit of luck, Kilkenny could do well. In that case, it might be early September before clubs see more serious action.
That might not even be the case. If Kilkenny were lucky enough to make it through to the All-Ireland final, and if that ended in a draw and required a replay, then there would be even more trouble.
The All-Ireland final replay date has been fixed for Saturday, September 8. So it is a possibility, remote, but still not beyond all bounds, that there might be no top end club hurling in Kilkenny until mid-September, at the earliest!
Basically no one has a clue at the moment, and no one wants to spell out the darkest possibility.
And as a result of the uncertainty, most club players have been given a holiday from training. Two clubs we know, on in each division, have called off training.
They will recommence in five weeks time to prepare for what will be the second start, yes, the second start to the season, whenever that might be.
To say clubs are livid is an understatement. Clubs want games. Players want game. Fans want games.
Without regular games, and the training required for them, players won’t improve their skill levels. In fact, they might simply drift away and chase regular action in other codes.
Kilkenny run good competitions. The success enjoyed by the county is not an accident, but is directly related to the competitive competitions run at local level.
The schedule of games for clubs is, in ordinary circumstances, well planned. Clubs get a fixtures booklet at the County Board meeting in March and that lays out the programme of matches as they will unfold for the rest of the season.
If even takes into account time off for county teams to prepare for the Leinster and All-Ireland championships, if the need arises. The only thing it doesn’t take account of is the weather.
If nature explodes and leads to the cancellation of games, well, that’s dealt with at the time.
There is space or what officers term ‘wriggle room’ to readjust the programme.
The point is clubs and players have a reasonably accurate picture of how the season will unfold.
By the time clubs get the fixtures programme parish events like Communion, Confirmation, Field Days, wedding even, plus other events have been considered and the official games programme is shaped around them.
A plan
So everyone steps into the season working off a well laid out, well thought out plan. Players and families can plan holidays. Students can plan American trips on the J1 Visa.
The package is neat and tidy. There is some form of clarity.
And then we arrive at GAA Programme 2018; the new way forward. New structures for inter-county games dominate.
The National League are played earlier.
The Leinster and Munster championships will be run on a Round Robin bases, beginning on May 13 (Leinster) and ending with the finals on Sunday, July 1 (both). Grand!
Not a bad plan, on paper.
April was to be left free for club competitions. Earlier in the season some counties looked down the road and saw problems with April as far as they were concerned.
They pushed their main competitions to the back end of the season, forgetting about April altogether.
Fine, if that’s what they want.
Kilkenny clubs didn’t. They wanted their serious games in the senior and intermediate league/championships as per usual in April, May and July. Then they would take on the serious business of the knockout championship, beginning in September.
There is an even spread of games.
They didn’t want secondary competitions - let’s be honest, all outside the league/championships are second level - providing the main diet of matches during the time we enjoy some of the best weather of the year.
Clubs had accepted that April would accommodate two rounds of the league/championship.
However, when Kilkenny did well in the League, got to and won the final, they lost a week that could have been used for club matches.
GAA Programme 2018!
From Sunday week when the last of the senior and intermediate club matches were played, until May 13 when Kilkenny face Dublin in the first round of the Leinster Round Robin series, is four weeks.
In real terms, that gives Kilkenny manager, Brian Cody, and his selectors three weeks for training and preparing the squad for what is a deadly serious match - it is only light muscle flexing work on the last week before big matches - which is not over doing it.
Naturally, everyone in Kilkenny is hoping the county team does well.
But no one can say it is fair to ask clubs to start a competition in April and then - in the successful counties - to take a huge break until September.
And you start again then! Two starts to the one season…..
Long term that won’t work. It just won’t work. Players will be lost wholesale.
And if the idea that was being floated not so long ago that all club competitions, including the All-Ireland club championships, should be completed within the calendar year ever comes into being then clubs will feel the squeeze even more.
Everything will be rush, rush, rush between September and December, which is not really optimum hurling/football time.
The scenario doesn’t look great. And the current games schedule is supposed to be for a trial, three year period.
One read last week that a high ranking GAA officials asked people to wait until the end of the season so things can be judged in their entirety.
Well, from what I have seen to date and listening to club officials, the people on the ground have already made their judgement.
The problems go deeper than clubs wondering about games and when they might be played.
We know from covering the colleges senior hurling championship in Leinster and at All-Ireland level that there are knock on effects.
What went on there was ridiculous. It appeared some fixtures were being played merely to get them out of the way, to fall in with a schedule.
The championship clash between eventual All-Ireland champions, St Kieran's College and Castlecomer Community School was a case in point.
It was played on an awful day, in wind, rain, snow and freezing temperatures in Jenkinstown. The match went to extra time.
Why? Because a result was needed on the day. Really, the game should have been abandoned because of the weather.
As that competition unfolded, the availability of grounds became a problem.
Because National League matches were being played in quick succession during February and March, pitches all over were taking a bit of a battering.
Colleges games?
Counties reacted by trying to protect them, which is natural enough, between rounds.
But that left no space to accommodate colleges matches in some venues. Consequently we saw St Kieran’s College having to travel to Enniscorthy to play St Peter’s College in their own backyard in a provincial semi-final.
Then even worse, St Kieran’s had to travel to Roscommon for an All-Ireland quarter-final. The story put to us on that one was that a grounds couldn’t be found for the match.
Imagine, there were no grounds available between Kilkenny and Roscommon - a distance just four short of 100 miles.
Also, do you remember the National League quarter-final between Kilkenny and Offaly played in Tullamore in March? It was the second weekend of the snow.
That game and a lot of others were put back a day so the snow might melt and the programme could be kept up to date.
Thanks to the Herculean efforts of the Offaly Board that match was able to be played. The GAA was hard pressed for dates, so it was important that match went ahead the weekend it did.
How did the Offaly officials get the snow off the pitch?
They churned it up using the grass cutter used to maintain the pitch. When the snow was loosened up it melted quicker, apparently.
A true story!
Judge the season in its entirely. Sure, but when the time comes decision makers must remember things like how St Kieran’s were inconvenienced and how versatile Offaly made things happen with outside the box thinking.
And how April, the month for club competitions, didn't happen!0 -
Just read the article now, thank you. It outlines clearly the problems facing county boards and everybody else involved. That is the situation in Kilkenny explained clearly. No point in comparing it to other counties without known the full facts of those counties too. As I said in previous post, the County Board, the CPA and the GPA need to ensure this structure is dismantled next year. Meanwhile, we have to suffer on and bear it for this year.0
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You just cant please GAA people. Its not long ago since Richie Power was giving out saying that there wawsnt enough of games and hed like to be playing every week.0
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Davys Fits wrote: »You just cant please GAA people. Its not long ago since Richie Power was giving out saying that there wawsnt enough of games and hed like to be playing every week.
Richie Hogan?
In all honesty though, many anticipated the problems we now have when the new structure was announced. Of course you can't please everybody but John Knox explains the Kilkenny situation perfectly.0 -
Davys Fits wrote: »You just cant please GAA people. Its not long ago since Richie Power was giving out saying that there wawsnt enough of games and hed like to be playing every week.
Well firstly as pointed out above it was Richie Hogan not Power and what he wanted was more matches as opposed to training. He wouldn't want them to the detriment of the club game I'd be fairly sure, having talked to him a few times.
I think the only solution that can work is to split the year.
Have a intercounty half of the year and a club half of the year.
At the minute we try to fit club games in between intercounty games and while Kilkenny had it sussed they also only had one code they concentrated on, like a lot of counties (we pay lip service to football and others do the same to hurling). If you played intercounty from February to mid July lets say. Then play Club from August until the end of November. That gives you 4 months for club and 4 and half for intercounty with a 2 month window to give all players a break. If we keep the current system you could end up with a huge drop off in club player numbers in the next 5 years and then the GAA could be in terminal decline at club level which would eventually feed through to intercounty scene quite quickly there after. Until congress wakes up and realises they've broken the GAA we're in for a lot of crap for the next few years. I believe the above system would work great as it gives the intercounty their own block they can play as many or as few matches in the time. I realise the intercounty players would be doing preseason in December and January but they do that anyway so it's no different for them. It would be radically different for the club players they could start their preseason in May or June play ancillary competitions and challenge matches. They would be finished by December if they got to an All Ireland or earlier otherwise. This gives them a great break from the game through the winter and has them training and hurling in the better months.
For me anything else will not work and if we keep the status quo we're headed for disaster.
You could also play the Fitzgibbon/Sigerson in January
You could even play the Railway cup back where it used to be on Paddys day to give it a shot in the arm0 -
the County Board, the CPA and the GPA need to ensure this structure is dismantled next year. Meanwhile, we have to suffer on and bear it for this year.
Good luck with that. I wouldnt hold my breath on the format being revoked for next year. It was approved for a three year timeframe last year. It was rejected by all the 'hurling' counties so even if a motion to revoke goes to Congress later this year, we'll need some counties who voted in favour last year to change their stance and vote against. Presumably those who voted in favour got some quid pro quo for doing so. They wont be allowed to change their vote after one year. The behaviour of the county board towards the clubs will not garner much sympathy from outside the county either.0 -
Any update on Cillian Buckley?0
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Can't see the format being changed next year either. Can see a lot of hurlers getting the text in Feb to go back training and just basically saying f#$k that at the thoughts of winter training for 2 months for possibly 1 game.0
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Read a number of newspaper articles today relating to the new format and the difficulties it's causing. And not by any means just hurling counties. One report has it that at least half of the counties played no senior club matches at all yet this year, chosing instead to start their club action later in the year.
Something has to give and if the much talked about CPA, and the GPA, doesn't make some kind of noise then it is failing the players.
End of April is fast approaching and we may move on, for now. But a review has to happen come September.0 -
Cornerback1 wrote: »Any update on Cillian Buckley?
From this week's Kilkenny People..
Cody had nothing but good news to relate from the Cats training camp. Team captain, Cillian Buckley, who missed the opening action in the local league/championship with his club, Dicksboro, because of a knee injury should be able to resume full training some time next week.
"He was very close to being fit to play with Dicksboro," Cody explained but he was rested in order to give the injury he picked up before the League final against Tipperary more time to come right.0 -
The CPA realistically has no power because even if they call a strike most club players won't go through with it in my opinion. The power is entirely with the GPA. They're the product and they control the money0
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Couldn't let this go. There IS football in Kilkenny, the Quarter Finals of the intermediate championship is on this weekend for example. These are Club matches too. Played by the same players that play hurling. If clubs really wanted matches they would put time into football as well. And don't tell me the lads you are talking about don't like big balls, I guarantee they have no hesitation playing soccer or rugby. The players involve deserve even greater respect. Feile football is also on this weekend and our development squads led by DJ Carey will play Waterford.
Again I would remind you and your cronies, about the Under-19 games this weekend. 15 games to be played (30 clubs). An important age group to provide games for before the exams kick in. Kilkenny way ahead of most in this respect to fill the gap of moving minor to Under-17. You seem to think that Club is Only Senior. You are obviously linked to a city Senior club and that's all you see,
Seeing as you are a strong supporter of Galway GAA, you will surely recall that the 2017 Galway senior hurling final was played in December and the delay had nothing to do with football!! And that's not unusual.
Why do you hate Kilkenny so much? Nothing is perfect, and the parameters were set by others under the name of democracy, but in fairness Kilkenny is still one of the best setups in the country.
On that note, well done to the posters who actually took time to put ideas out there. You are the type of people who should be county board reps, so as things can be discussed and consensus found.
Well Mr Football. Any comment on all the teams conceding games in the football feile?0 -
If I was drawing up a schedule for 2019 to keep both clubs and county happy, I would first make a couple of rules. First, if any inter county league match was cancelled due to the weather, both teams would be awarded a point each and the match not played. If a league quarter or semi final was cancelled, the match would be awarded to the team that finished higher in the League section. I would allow the final to be pushed back a week. If any knockou match, either club or county, finished in a draw, 20 minutes of extra time would be played, followed by 10 minutes and then by penalties if required.
So for next year, the fixtures would be.
3/2/2019 R1 National Hurling League (NHL)
10/2/2019 R2 NHL
17/2/2019 R3 NHL
24/2/2019 R4 NHL
3/3/2019 Free
10/3/2019 R5 NHL
17/3/2019 QF or Relagation match
24/3/2019 SF NHL
21/3/2019 NHL
7/4/2019 Free
14/4/2019 Club R1
21/4/2019 Club R2
28/4/2019 Club R3
5/5/2019 Free
12/5/2019 Free
19/5/2019 RR1 First round of round robin
26/5/2019 RR 2
2/6/2019 RR3
9/6/2019 Free
16/6/2019 RR4
23/6/2019 Free or preliminary match
30/6/2019 Leinster Final
7/7/2019 Free
14/7/2019 QF or free
21/7/2019 Semi final
28/7/2019 free
4/8/2019 Free
11/8/2019 AI Final
18/8/2019 Free
25/8/2019 Club R4
1/9/2019 Club R5
8/9/2019 Club Relegation 1/ Club League Final/ Shield/R1
15/9/2019 Free
22/9/2019 Club QF
29/9/2019 Club SF
6/10/2019 Free
13/10/2019 Club Final
U21 County matches could be played on 31/4/2019, 19/6/2019, 10/7/2019, 24/7/2019, 18/8/2019
If KK were knocked out of the AI series early, club matches could be brought forward by a week.
With this, club Championship matches would be in two fixed periods of the year. In between, they could play Byrne Cup, take their holidays, take a trip to the States etc.
Anyone any other suggestions?0 -
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Couldn't let this go. There IS football in Kilkenny, the Quarter Finals of the intermediate championship is on this weekend for example. These are Club matches too. Played by the same players that play hurling. If clubs really wanted matches they would put time into football as well. And don't tell me the lads you are talking about don't like big balls, I guarantee they have no hesitation playing soccer or rugby. The players involve deserve even greater respect. Feile football is also on this weekend and our development squads led by DJ Carey will play Waterford.
Again I would remind you and your cronies, about the Under-19 games this weekend. 15 games to be played (30 clubs). An important age group to provide games for before the exams kick in. Kilkenny way ahead of most in this respect to fill the gap of moving minor to Under-17. You seem to think that Club is Only Senior. You are obviously linked to a city Senior club and that's all you see,
Seeing as you are a strong supporter of Galway GAA, you will surely recall that the 2017 Galway senior hurling final was played in December and the delay had nothing to do with football!! And that's not unusual.
Why do you hate Kilkenny so much? Nothing is perfect, and the parameters were set by others under the name of democracy, but in fairness Kilkenny is still one of the best setups in the country.
On that note, well done to the posters who actually took time to put ideas out there. You are the type of people who should be county board reps, so as things can be discussed and consensus found.
Well Mr Football. Any comment on all the teams conceding games in the football feile?
The question betrays your motives, but to answer it.
As a Kilkenny GAA person, I am disappointed that clubs conceded matches especially City clubs. I am also disappointed that many clubs didn’t enter the competition in the first place and take the opportunity to play games, some choosing to train instead. That aside there was still plenty of good underage and adult football played over the weekend.
As a Kilkenny GAA person, I was also disappointed to hear that earlier in year for the equivalent Féile Hurling competition that 3 clubs did not enter the competition at all, two of which are in the top seven most populated parishes in the county and 10 more chose to concede games during the course of the competition.
So now I’m wondering what your point is?0 -
As someone involved with a team at that age group I didn't field a team for the football Feile as I couldn't field a team due to the ongoing Kilkenny soccer season and it's place in the calendar in the middle of a raft of U15 hurling games. Couple that with schools hurling, soccer and basketball as well as lads now involved with Development Squads and getting the full group together is extremely difficult. I'm rearranging U15 games to avoid giving walkovers only for something else to come up that affects numbers on the rearranged date. Pain in the arse is what it is.0
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Any idea on how the weekend away went?hopefully no fresh injuries.Dublin looked to have had a good workout against waterford and we can be sure of a physical battle.Hopefully we get up and running with a win sunday week.0
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Lads and Lassies,
What's the story with tickets for Sunday week? I see that they are only selling terrace tickets on the Gaa site. Are all the stand tickets gone already? I will have an elderly patron with me who may not be up for standing on a terrace for a couple of hours.0 -
Lads and Lassies,
What's the story with tickets for Sunday week? I see that they are only selling terrace tickets on the Gaa site. Are all the stand tickets gone already? I will have an elderly patron with me who may not be up for standing on a terrace for a couple of hours.
Season ticket holders will get first refusal on the stand tickets I imagine?0 -
Season ticket holders will get first refusal on the stand tickets I imagine?
Yea, I suppose so. I wonder would there be many left after that process is complete, like if you waited until next week to buy would they be on general sale? If not, we'll have to get in early to find him a barrier to lie on!0 -
Lads and Lassies,
What's the story with tickets for Sunday week? I see that they are only selling terrace tickets on the Gaa site. Are all the stand tickets gone already? I will have an elderly patron with me who may not be up for standing on a terrace for a couple of hours.
https://twitter.com/carrickshockgaa/status/984888908138930177?s=19
Did a search on Twitter & this came up from Carrickshock on April 13th, strangely nothing on the official Kilkenny GAA twitter about it0 -
Any news out of Kilkenny after the training weekend in Cork ?
Never has there been a Kilkenny team better looked after for a Championship match than this team. Must be well ahead of Dublin in regards preparation, Dublin have been playing club up to a few days ago. Kilkenny played the league final the 8th, were back in with the county by the 17th. Cant see how Dublin can get themselves up to that pace with injured players and Cuala players back with little or no game time together. Counties like Kilkenny and Clare who more or less ignored the April month for clubs will have a big advantage over teams who played club action all during April like Dublin, especially in the first round0 -
While I agree that Kilkenny should've played another round of club games you're looking at the Dublin game in isolation which is just wrong. Kilkenny play 3 games in 3 weeks with training done in between games restricted to recovery sessions only. This is unknown territory in the championship where every result matters so they've obviously taken the cautious approach this time around.0
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Change the record you are not happy when they are concentrating on an up coming game correct me if I am wrong didn't you grumble last year when Paul Murphy was on the kilkenny people with a horse in Nowlan park . Move on life is to short constantly repeating the same thing get behind the team.0
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Ìs it going to be the same for all the matches as regarding the tickets the season ticket holder will get first preference for seats I say Salthill would be like Parnell park sunday week.0
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Can you buy tickets now for the galway match?should be a big crowd at that oneHughCassidy wrote: »Ìs it going to be the same for all the matches as regarding the tickets the season ticket holder will get first preference for seats I say Salthill would be like Parnell park sunday week.0 -
brookville wrote: »Can you buy tickets now for the galway match?should be a big crowd at that one
I am not sure that's why I was asking.0 -
brookville wrote: »Can you buy tickets now for the galway match?should be a big crowd at that one
http://www.gaa.ie/tickets/0 -
JJs Left Hand wrote: »While I agree that Kilkenny should've played another round of club games you're looking at the Dublin game in isolation which is just wrong. Kilkenny play 3 games in 3 weeks with training done in between games restricted to recovery sessions only. This is unknown territory in the championship where every result matters so they've obviously taken the cautious approach this time around.
That's exactly why there is such a preparation, and understandably so to any reasonable person. A hectic schedule coming up for the players and they have to be ready. Dublin are preparing just as well, have played a number of challenge matches.0 -
I'd say gilroy will have dublin chomping at the bit next sunday and we'll have a tough match.Think they played waterford already this week and limerick tonight plus werent they training twice a day earlier in the year with their eye on the championship and am I right in saying Dublin are know at their quater final stage? but we all agree we should of had an extra round of local matches but I doubt all county teams done nothing for the month of April but 3 weeks prep for the round robin is what's needed with the 3rd week not much being done.Hopefully it's managed better next year if the format isn't changed.Any news out of Kilkenny after the training weekend in Cork ?
Never has there been a Kilkenny team better looked after for a Championship match than this team. Must be well ahead of Dublin in regards preparation, Dublin have been playing club up to a few days ago. Kilkenny played the league final the 8th, were back in with the county by the 17th. Cant see how Dublin can get themselves up to that pace with injured players and Cuala players back with little or no game time together. Counties like Kilkenny and Clare who more or less ignored the April month for clubs will have a big advantage over teams who played club action all during April like Dublin, especially in the first round
Heard nothing bout the weekend away hopefully no fresh injuries.It'll be interesting to see will the returning lads make the panel.0 -
If by any chance anybody has an adult and a juvenile ticket for sale for the Kilkenny v Dublin match on May 13th let me know please. And similarly for the Kilkenny v Galway match on May 27th. Somebody may not be making use of their season ticket in which case I will buy them.
Thanks.0 -
I heard dj saying he his losing 2 lads going to the states I presume one is doheny and another player is concentrating on exams and tommy walsh is a long term absentee he didn't give the names of the lads missing but doheny and walsh will be losses but he seemed upbeat that he has a good squad and he has 6 in with seniors.
Our minors are playing sunday week it's supposed to be a decent squad although not the biggest.
Good news on the kk people that the 3 lads got through the weekend ok.No mention of Jason cleere or joe lyng who was due home after the league.Kevin kelly probably another few weeks off.
Whats lads thoughts ahead of next week?I'd be cagey enough heading up but hopefully we'll carry the league momentum into the championship.0 -
What's the ticket situation down your way lads?
DCB have told county board stand pass holders that they wont get tickets as season ticket holders from both counties have priority.
Tickets still available for terraces. Will be full house so good atmosphere ..... for a while anyway!0 -
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What's the ticket situation down your way lads?
DCB have told county board stand pass holders that they wont get tickets as season ticket holders from both counties have priority.
Tickets still available for terraces. Will be full house so good atmosphere ..... for a while anyway!
Are people at anything holding out to see will any stand tickets come available or should we get terrace tickets as there's no chance of stand tickets coming available?0
This discussion has been closed.
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