Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

blackcard

It wasn't the reason we lost but I hated to see short puckouts being taken to a corner back who was then taking the ball into contact and as often as not losing possession or at best the ball ending up where the goalkeeper could have pucked it anyway.. There also seemed to be a dreadful lack of urgency with it taking an age to take line balls and frees. Along with the time wasting by Westmeath and a shockingly fussy referee meant that there was very little time with the ball in play..

Cornerback1

brookville wrote: »

unrealtime wrote: »

Serious problems at management level and at player level. Players need to realise that titles must be sought and won by every effort possible and are not handed out on a plate. Does anyone seriously think that Westmeath will win a title this year. Fair dues to them but I don't.

4 years in a row so not a calamity for our seniors then!

Was brian coady not helping eddie?everyone tought eddie was a good appointment at the time a former great highly respected person.11 of tonight's starters play senior with their clubs.3 or 4 are in with the seniors.westmeath deserved the win tonight so it wasn't like we were robbed dublin or wexford would probably have hammered us anyway the only positive is john walsh hurled well again and is good form better prospect than liam blanchfield imo

I think statement said, when he was first appointed, that he was helping Eddie but tmit was a mistake and then another one was put out saying BC had no influence over U21's.

If i remember correctly, they were announced on the same night.

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

Was brian coady not helping eddie?everyone tought eddie was a good appointment at the time a former great highly respected person.11 of tonight's starters play senior with their clubs.3 or 4 are in with the seniors.westmeath deserved the win tonight so it wasn't like we were robbed dublin or wexford would probably have hammered us anyway the only positive is john walsh hurled well again and is good form better prospect than liam blanchfield imo

John Walsh got no score from play and was taken off the frees tonight?

dobbs2210

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

Realt Dearg Sec

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

Would agree that blaming Eddie is too simplistic, and it clearly runs deeper than that, but saying the players weren't good enough is a strange one when so many of them have all Ireland medals. They can't be that bad!

Topcat32

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

When did they stop being good enough? They look pretty good at 17 and 18

brookville

blackcard wrote: »

John Walsh got no score from play and was taken off the frees tonight?

Sorry I must of got my wires crossed so I tought alan murphy would of being on the frees who missed the penalty?

dobbs2210

Topcat32 wrote: »

When did they stop not being good enough? They look pretty good at 17 and 18

Lads, 17 and 18 is grand but players change. This is U21. I saw the 21s play a few games against Clare, Tipp and Cork and they were absolutely terrible againstClare and Tipp and Cork were by far better than them i beleive talking to 1 of the players.

Topcat32

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Lads, 17 and 18 is grand but players change. This is U21. I saw the 21s play a few games against Clare, Tipp and Cork and they were absolutely terrible againstClare and Tipp and Cork were by far better than them i beleive talking to 1 of the players.

Tipp beat them by 2 points, hardly far better.

dobbs2210

Topcat32 wrote: »

Tipp beat them by 2 points, hardly far better.

If Tipperary took there chances that night. I was at the game. The full back line were tore to bits.

Cornerback1

Maybe these 2 defeats - minor and U21 early in May, will be a wake up call for everyone.

I'd have thought U21's would be more reliable than minors. Minor age group is fickle and hard to know what these lads will do.

U21's should be on their senior club teams and should be experienced in games like these tonight.

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

Sorry I must of got my wires crossed so I tought alan murphy would of being on the frees who missed the penalty?

Andrew Gaffney took the penalty, hit a blaster but wide

dobbs2210

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Maybe these 2 defeats - minor and U21 early in May, will be a wake up call for everyone.

I'd have thought U21's would be more reliable than minors. Minor age group is fickle and hard to know what these lads will do.

U21's should be on their senior club teams and should be experienced in games like these tonight.

Exactly, hopefully this will spark the required action from the powers that be in Kilkenny to improve and invest in the hurling standards in the county.

Realt Dearg Sec

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Lads, 17 and 18 is grand but players change. This is U21. I saw the 21s play a few games against Clare, Tipp and Cork and they were absolutely terrible againstClare and Tipp and Cork were by far better than them i beleive talking to 1 of the players.

Yeah we get that they're poor as a team, but clearly it's not just a bad crop of players, and they didn't just magically become bad. There's more wrong than that surely? To say it's just bad players would be to bury our heads in the sand.

Was chatting to a mate who would know a lot more than me about the club scene etc, who feels it might be a long term blessing. Argues the last time something like this happened it led to a root and branch review of our whole set up from under age up, pacing the way for the tremendous successes of recent years. That success has clearly bred some complacency, we all knew we wouldn't be as strong as in the late 00s, but like the economy, everyone assumes it'll be a parachute landing and not a crash. Comparisons with cork seem alarmist, but they probably sounded alarmist to people in cork in 2006 as well.

Bonniedog

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I don't mind what reason people would look at the thread, I just thought coming on and laughing about it was pretty mean-spirited.

Bit disappointed in your other comment to be honest. I'll leave it at that.

Don't be so fkn sensitive. You lose one match in every 20 years and its all touchy feely time.

Breaking your balls.

On a more serious note, it was great result for the Westies.

Realt Dearg Sec

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Exactly, hopefully this will spark the required action from the powers that be in Kilkenny to improve and invest in the hurling standards in the county.

Had not seen this when writing my last post. Think everyone really singing from the same hymn sheet basically. But the players must have regressed. Why is probably a complicated question!

randd1

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Would agree that blaming Eddie is too simplistic, and it clearly runs deeper than that, but saying the players weren't good enough is a strange one when so many of them have all Ireland medals. They can't be that bad!

A few of them are top go-to players for their clubs too.

Rumours during the year about players dropped, lack of intensity in training and a lack of training sessions.

The signs were there in the Walsh Cup, didn't we lose to Offaly and DIT (heavily enough) with this group of players.

Given their underage record, their general performances for their clubs and (with all due respect) the opposition, the general feeling you get would be something was seriously wrong in the preparation and setup the last few years. That's down to management.

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

Sorry I must of got my wires crossed so I tought alan murphy would of being on the frees who missed the penalty?

Andrew Gaffney took the penalty, hit a blaster but wide

These things happen.

blackcard

Cornerback1 wrote: »

These things happen.

Not blaming Andrew Gaffney, as I said he hit a blaster and was a fraction wide.

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

Don't be so fkn sensitive. You lose one match in every 20 years and its all touchy feely time.

Breaking your balls.

On a more serious note, it was great result for the Westies.

I had more of a problem with your comment about my club to be honest. Not sure how successful you would expect a club to be after five years in existence with zero resources, but we're proud of what we've achieved and where we are in Dublin hurling. We can look anyone in the eye on that subject, but there's nothing new for us in people from established Dublin clubs putting us down either. It's just a bit demoralising when we get these occasional insights into how we're actually still regarded.

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

Cornerback1 wrote: »

These things happen.

Not blaming Andrew Gaffney, as I said he hit a blaster and was a fraction wide.

I understand that Blackcard. Just saying these things happen and not the lad's fault. Pity we left it late!!

Topcat32

blackcard wrote: »

Not blaming Andrew Gaffney, as I said he hit a blaster and was a fraction wide.

Did any player stand out for Kilkenny?

Bonniedog

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I had more of a problem with your comment about my club to be honest. Not sure how successful you would expect a club to be after five years in existence with zero resources, but we're proud of what we've achieved and where we are in Dublin hurling. We can look anyone in the eye on that subject, but there's nothing new for us in people from established Dublin clubs putting us down either. It's just a bit demoralising when we get these occasional insights into how we're actually still regarded.

i

Will you stop for fks sake!

I'd hardly be snooping about a hurling site if I didn't respect any man who played the game.

My "ha" was genuine shock that Westies had beaten you. apologies again if I thought was pretty remarkable result and worthy of comment, and only reason I was here was I didn't believe the tweets about what was happening.

Up the fkn Cats.

One of Grannies was Gowran woman so she be on your side

shockframe

I'd say Kilkenny are going to hit a bit of a lull soon at senior.

They might prove me wrong but last year they had no link from 2000 to 2014* and as much as you have to stand back ad applaud their success it would be unlikely you would have 2 golden era's one after another.(Maybe Man Utd premiership era being an exception)

They'll still be a force and win all irelands every couple of years but the utter domination of the last decade maybe coming to a close.

We'll find out!

*No link from the 2000 to 2014 All Irelands and all in between like Henry Shefflin.

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

i

Will you stop for fks sake!

I'd hardly be snooping about a hurling site if I didn't respect any man who played the game.

My "ha" was genuine shock that Westies had beaten you. apologies again if I thought was pretty remarkable result and worthy of comment, and only reason I was here was I didn't believe the tweets about what was happening.

Up the fkn Cats.

One of Grannies was Gowran woman so she be on your side

Look, sorry for calling names, it's not a response I'm proud of, but you have to expect some reaction when it looks that way to read the post!

I'll leave it about the club, I assume the comment was a spur of the moment reaction. Just a bit sensitive, we've dealt with a lot of condescension from hurling people in Dublin over the years. You could count the clubs responsible for most of it on one hand nearly (oh lord I'd give anything to be allowed list them, so as not to be tarring the good clubs with that brush), but we're not inclined to take it lying down either.

Your granny sounds like a grand woman!

dastardly00

Scorers and subs etc. from the match:

D Brennan; E Cody, C Delaney, H Lalor; P Lyng, J Cleere, P Deegan; C Browne, E Kenny; L Blanchfield, S Morrissey (0-2), N Mullins; B Ryan (0-3), A Murphy, J Walsh (0-6 frees).

Subs: A Gaffney (0-1, ‘65’) for Kenny (h/t), K Blanchfield for Murphy (49 mins), T Phelan for Mullins (59 mins).

citykat

Can't be too critical of Eddie. Wasn't he asked personally by Ned to take this on. He said at the time that he couldn't refuse such a request. Might be hard for some to believe but prospective managers are not exactly falling from the sky. Spoke to a panel members Da earlier in the week. He said the players had huge respect for Eddie. Apparently there was no expense spared in preparation. I wasn't too hopeful for the minors this year but I thought the U21s might have a good run.

Cornerback1

dastardly00 wrote: »

Scorers and subs etc. from the match:

D Brennan; E Cody, C Delaney, H Lalor; P Lyng, J Cleere, P Deegan; C Browne, E Kenny; L Blanchfield, S Morrissey (0-2), N Mullins; B Ryan (0-3), A Murphy, J Walsh (0-6 frees).

Subs: A Gaffney (0-1, 65 ) for Kenny (h/t), K Blanchfield for Murphy (49 mins), T Phelan for Mullins (59 mins).

5pts from play over 62/63 mins!!!!

Bonniedog

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Look, sorry for calling names, it's not a response I'm proud of, but you have to expect some reaction when it looks that way to read the post!

I'll leave it about the club, I assume the comment was a spur of the moment reaction. Just a bit sensitive, we've dealt with a lot of condescension from hurling people in Dublin over the years. You could count the clubs responsible for most of it on one hand nearly (oh lord I'd give anything to be allowed list them, so as not to be tarring the good clubs with that brush), but we're not inclined to take it lying down either.

Your granny sounds like a grand woman!

Just down the road from the Careys!

Seriously though, Cats people need to realise that people celebrating you being beaten is not some sort of slur.

Westies beating you is huge achievement.

That's it.

Good night and good luck with Realt,

blackcard

Bonniedog wrote: »

Just down the road from the Careys!

Seriously though, Cats people need to realise that people celebrating you being beaten is not some sort of slur.

Westies beating you is huge achievement.

That's it.

Good night and good luck with Realt,

Ok, so next time Tipp are beaten at any level and someone comes on to the Tipp thread and says "ha" that is fine?

kala85

Are Kilkenny out of the under 21-now or is there a back door

northern lad

'If the team plays without spirit, it's the managements fault'.... B. Cody

Surely Westmeath didn't beat us because they've better hurlers.

Attitude is everything

Bonniedog

blackcard wrote: »

Ok, so next time Tipp are beaten at any level and someone comes on to the Tipp thread and says "ha" that is fine?

No wonder they were beaten.. youse are getting soft

Topcat32

10 of the starting team underage again next year by my reckoning. A lot of those players involved in the last big underage disaster against Dublin a few years ago, even if they recovered brilliantly to win the minor All Ireland.

Bonniedog

Wexford be the team to beat this year. Not a bad bet to win All Ireland.

unrealtime

I am annoyed at the rubbishy displays of our underage teams but it will not necessarily mean that we are heading for any long term decline.

Players like Tommy JJ Noel Mick Kavanagh, Henry come along once in a lifetime and these were the best I ever saw in their positions. But with many good, if slightly lesser hurlers, we still won the last 2 All Irelands in a row and that team is as young as any around. We may not need much to come from underage to continue to prosper and the current standard nationally is poor.

Topcat32

I wouldnt write off the players from today either. Its a serious kick in the teeth for them but most of the lads who played tonight are 20 or younger, will learn a tough lesson by the reaction to this loss and will have a chance to get back on track.

Realt Dearg Sec

Topcat32 wrote: »

I wouldnt write off the players from today either. Its a serious kick in the teeth for them but most of the lads who played tonight are 20 or younger, will learn a tough lesson by the reaction to this loss and will have a chance to get back on track.

Well they'll have to learn to beat sweepers because it looks like they'll be playing against then a lot

pmy.murphy

blackcard wrote: »

John Walsh got no score from play and was taken off the frees tonight?

He wasnt taken off the frees, he had missed two prior to the penalty and just didnt fancy the penalty himself. He also had the ball in the net early in the match only for it to be brought back for a free. The lad saw very little ball

blackcard

pmy.murphy wrote: »

He wasnt taken off the frees, he had missed two prior to the penalty and just didnt fancy the penalty himself. He also had the ball in the net early in the match only for it to be brought back for a free. The lad saw very little ball

Agree with you that he saw very little ball and I think he is a great prospect and anyone can have a bad day at freetaking

However, he was taken off the frees tonight after his fourth miss. Andrew Gaffney also took the free previous to the penalty and scored a point

nice_guy80

Time to split Westmeath in two

brookville

blackcard wrote: »

Agree with you that he saw very little ball and I think he is a great prospect and anyone can have a bad day at freetaking

However, he was taken off the frees tonight after his fourth miss. Andrew Gaffney also took the free previous to the penalty and scored a point

Alan murphy was a unbelievable free taker at minor level I was suprised he wasn't on them

Formosa

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Time to split Westmeath in two

Westmeath & West-Westmeath

Topcat32

Interesting tweet from Eddie Brennan this morning highlighting "REAL desire"

galwaylad14

What a result for Westmeath. Unbelievable what that'll do for hurling in the county. Every young lad will want a hurl in his hand now after that.

Didn't Kilkenny win the minor in 2014? Where did it all go wrong? Surely most of those lads should have been there last night? Maybe it was just one of those nights where everything went wrong and in fairness that can happen to any team. But it's crazy to think that both Kilkenny minor and under 21s are out by the end of May.

On the face of it given ye're injuries/retirements, ye're big beating from Clare last time out and this years underage results it looks like worrying times for ye. But at the same time there's still every chance there'll be a Kilkenny man on the steps of the Hogan stand in September collecting yet another All Ireland so I don't think ye'll get too much sympathy from the rest of us just yet!

And anyway winning under 21s and minors is no guarantee of success as we know all too well down in Galway. More important to be able to bring through 2 or 3 guys from each year that can establish themselves as good senior players.

Topcat32

galwaylad14 wrote: »

What a result for Westmeath. Unbelievable what that'll do for hurling in the county. Every young lad will want a hurl in his hand now after that.

Didn't Kilkenny win the minor in 2014? Where did it all go wrong? Surely most of those lads should have been there last night? Maybe it was just one of those nights where everything went wrong and in fairness that can happen to any team. But it's crazy to think that both Kilkenny minor and under 21s are out by the end of May.

On the face of it given ye're injuries/retirements, ye're big beating from Clare last time out and this years underage results it looks like worrying times for ye. But at the same time there's still every chance there'll be a Kilkenny man on the steps of the Hogan stand in September collecting yet another All Ireland so I don't think ye'll get too much sympathy from the rest of us just yet!

And anyway winning under 21s and minors is no guarantee of success as we know all too well down in Galway. More important to be able to bring through 2 or 3 guys from each year that can establish themselves as good senior players.

11 players who won minor medals in 2014 started last night and 1 came on as a sub which makes it hard to believe that we could lose to Westmeath in our first match. James Maher who is pretty much the only player with significant senior intercounty match experience was a big loss to the team, but for a team with that many underage intercounty and schools medals its very suprising that we didnt go close to winning Leinster. We will have to see how Westmeath go in the next round to put this into proper context.

minty81

Eddie Brennan was a terrific servant to kk on the pitch but on what basis was he handpicked for this role? Ahead of say Tom Mulally who has produced phenomenal results with Mount leinster rangers, Clara and Glenmore over recent years. I don't believe Eddie has any mgt experience at club level, plus he has two rookies with him as selectors.

If we were paying Dublin or Wexford last night would two rounds of the club championship have gone ahead over the last two weeks?

I'm not buying that we're just not good enough. Our minor and colleges performances bear no relation to whats happened at u-21 over the last few years..so what exactly is happening at that level to result in such a fall off?

JimboJones99

minty81 wrote: »

Eddie Brennan was a terrific servant to kk on the pitch but on what basis was he handpicked for this role? Ahead of say Tom Mulally who has produced phenomenal results with Mount leinster rangers, Clara and Glenmore over recent years. I don't believe Eddie has any mgt experience at club level, plus he has two rookies with him as selectors.

If we were paying Dublin or Wexford last night would two rounds of the club championship have gone ahead over the last two weeks?

I'm not buying that we're just not good enough. Our minor and colleges performances bear no relation to whats happened at u-21 over the last few years..so what exactly is happening at that level to result in such a fall off?

I think he was involved with Lisdowney when they won the junior a couple of years ago. That's the only managerial experience I think he has.

Bonniedog

One thing last night also underlines is the fairness of a straight knock out.

And I say that as a Dub whose minors have benefitted, as have Cats, from getting a second chance.

Ridiculous that a minor team could be beaten twice and still win an All Ireland! Makes a mockery of the whole thing.

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

One thing last night also underlines is the fairness of a straight knock out.

And I say that as a Dub whose minors have benefitted, as have Cats, from getting a second chance.

Ridiculous that a minor team could be beaten twice and still win an All Ireland! Makes a mockery of the whole thing.

Maybe for Kilkenny and Dublin.

But for the likes of Westmeath, the back door gives their minors a second game