Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

droppingball

Satisfied with the win Sunday but feel like we will have to up the levels for the next game. TJ had a quiet first half along with Colin Fennelly and Larkin so there is definitely room for improvement.

In the forwards scores were hard to come by early but once the game opened up in the second half and Richie come on I would be very happy. Jonjos movement off people making runs was very good, always gives the runner an option and had composure to score. If Ger Aylward stayed injury free, Larkin and Colin Fennelly would have a fight on for a place the ways things are going. That said Jonjo will be watched from here on in and he has set a scoring average which will be hard to maintain. Wally didn't have as good a game and Galway picked a man of the same ilk as Walter to match him and it was reasonably successful.

Conor Fogarty was outstanding, showed great positional awareness and drove forward when required, he is turning into an all round midfielder.

Workrate was unbelievable in the second half, there was a stage there were the blocks and hooks were flying in from lester and mick fennelly, the training must be as intense as ever as other teams can't seem to live with it when the lads put the squeeze on them

Charlie69

Can anybody confirm that Colin had a hamstring injury??, I'd be very surprised if Cody brought him off if he wasn't injured. I know he wasn't having his best game but Cody loves Colin's insatiable appetite for work for the full 70 mins.

When the KK forwards upped the work-rate in the second half the the Galway forwards were starved of quality ball. Colin's first touch can be off at times and he's not our most prolific score getter but his work-rate makes him an invaluable member of our team.

Cornerback1

Charlie69 wrote: »

Can anybody confirm that Colin had a hamstring injury??, I'd be very surprised if Cody brought him off if he wasn't injured. I know he wasn't having his best game but Cody loves Colin's insatiable appetite for work for the full 70 mins.

When the KK forwards upped the work-rate in the second half the the Galway forwards were starved of quality ball. Colin's first touch can be off at times and he's not our most prolific score getter but his work-rate makes him an invaluable member of our team.

I heard on radio on way home (Marty's Squad i think), someone said he had a slight hamstring strain and that's why he was taken off at half time.

unrealtime

I know I am pxxsing against the wind but what good has Galway's extended stay in Leinster done for the province or for Galway in the 8 seasons since it began - purportedly for 3 years only.

It has done nothing at all to foster hurling. Galway have not improved at all but teams like Westmeath, Offaly, Laois and Wexford have been seriously damaged by the unnecessary intrusion into the provincial championships. It's way past time to end this failed experiment. It's real purpose of course was to try and hobble Kilkenny and not to improve hurling in Leinster generally. It was brought in over the protest of most Leinster counties. To its shame, Kilkenny backed it. Time for rethink.

adrian522

It's made the Leinster championship at least somewhat interesting.

I'm an advocate of getting rid of the provincial championships but the current setup at least gives Galway some games before Late July. I'd also have Galway in Leinster at underage grades as them starting at the semi final doesn't really make any sense, but ideally scrap the provincials and have a system fairer to all teams.

Realt Dearg Sec

unrealtime wrote: »

I know I am pxxsing against the wind but what good has Galway's extended stay in Leinster done for the province or for Galway in the 8 seasons since it began - purportedly for 3 years only.

It has done nothing at all to foster hurling. Galway have not improved at all but teams like Westmeath, Offaly, Laois and Wexford have been seriously damaged by the unnecessary intrusion into the provincial championships. It's way past time to end this failed experiment. It's real purpose of course was to try and hobble Kilkenny and not to improve hurling in Leinster generally. It was brought in over the protest of most Leinster counties. To its shame, Kilkenny backed it. Time for rethink.

The Leinster championship was an utter waste of time for nearly a decade before they joined it. I definitely don't want to return to a situation where we might, if we're lucky, see one decent Leinster game in a year. I don't see what damage has been done to any other county by them being in either. Galway joining was a step towards a more balanced championship. Not perfect by any means but if they leave it will be a huge step back into the dreary boring dark ages that the provincial system represents.

Utopia Parkway

unrealtime wrote: »

I know I am pxxsing against the wind but what good has Galway's extended stay in Leinster done for the province or for Galway in the 8 seasons since it began - purportedly for 3 years only.

I'd love to have seen the state of the Leinster championship the past few years without Galway. What would seeing Wexford or Offaly receiving unmerciful flakings from Kilkenny every year done for anyone? Dublin might have put up token resistance the odd time but generally the only consistently competitive games Kilkenny have had have been against Galway for the most part.

An open draw hurling championship is probably the way to go but the Munster counties will not give up the Munster hurling championship without a bitter fight.

Realt Dearg Sec

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I'd love to have seen the state of the Leinster championship the past few years without Galway. What would seeing Wexford or Offaly receiving unmerciful flakings from Kilkenny every year done for anyone? Dublin might have put up token resistance the odd time but generally the only consistently competitive games Kilkenny have had have been against Galway for the most part.

An open draw hurling championship is probably the way to go but the Munster counties will not give up the Munster hurling championship without a bitter fight.

The Munster championship is also well past its sell-by date. I agree they'll fight it tooth and nail, but whatever excitement it generates now is purely the product of the relatively even competition between teams. An open draw would maintain that. The actual value of a Munster championship medal isn't a fraction of what it used to be. Any serious team has eyes only for one thing, and that's the All Ireland.

blue note

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I'd love to have seen the state of the Leinster championship the past few years without Galway. What would seeing Wexford or Offaly receiving unmerciful flakings from Kilkenny every year done for anyone? Dublin might have put up token resistance the odd time but generally the only consistently competitive games Kilkenny have had have been against Galway for the most part.

An open draw hurling championship is probably the way to go but the Munster counties will not give up the Munster hurling championship without a bitter fight.

I actually think they've really added to the Leinster Championship. They've had some good battles with Kilkenny as well as a great two legged battle with Offaly a few years ago (where they were very lucky to come out victorious the second day) and a couple of close games against Laois and Westmeath in the last couple of years.

An open draw would clearly be the best, but the Munster counties in particular would be terrified of where their income would come from if you brought it in. It's not about the prestige of the Munster Championship - don't get me wrong it's still a very good competition. But the majority of people I know would rather a fairer all ireland championship.

unrealtime

KK people don't give a damn about hurling in other counties at present when we have walloped all and sundry for more than a decade and a half. I doubt that most other Leinster counties would support maintaining Galway in Leinster as they never did anyway.

The provincial championships should be maintained with an open draw and no back door. Then a separate All-Ireland competition - again with open draw and no back door. That would give teams a chance with the luck of the draw and no second chance for losers in the case of surprises.

The Leinster Championship does not exist in practice with all counties other than some Munster counties competing.

Cornerback1

Anybody know what way the semi-final pairings will work out?

Realt Dearg Sec

unrealtime wrote: »

KK people don't give a damn about hurling in other counties at present when we have walloped all and sundry for more than a decade and a half. I doubt that most other Leinster counties would support maintaining Galway in Leinster as they never did anyway.

The provincial championships should be maintained with an open draw and no back door. Then a separate All-Ireland competition - again with open draw and no back door. That would give teams a chance with the luck of the draw and no second chance for losers in the case of surprises.

The Leinster Championship does not exist in practice with all counties other than some Munster counties competing.

If you were to win the Leinster and all Ireland championships, how many matches is that in total? Presumably there's still a league as well?

catseye2

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Anybody know what way the semi-final pairings will work out?

Assuming cork and Clare come through, it all depends on who loses the Munster final.

If Waterford lose final then they play cork and Galway play Clare . Assuming Waterford beat cork then they play Kk and tipp play Clare or Galway

If tipp lose final then tipp play Clare and Galway play cork .assuming Galway beat cork then we play winners of tipp and Clare


Although if Limerick or wexford win this weekend, all bets are off

Cornerback1

Really there are only 8 teams who can win the All Ireland.

Ulster, where i'm from, are a long way behind and it's getting longer with each passing year. Some Derry clubs have only played 3 leagues this year and we're already 1 week into July. In Fermanagh for example, there is only 1 senior club team. What sort of future is there there? Cavan haven't got their senior team back in action after saying they would do so but they haven't put a timeframe on it. The biggest problem in Ulster is that any young lad who is good with a hurl is naturally going to be good at football and at U16 and minor level, he's going to pick the football development squads.

There is great work going on in Westmeath and Carlow etc. but it's going to be hard to get up to that level without help from Croke Park in terms of money and coaching.

In hurling, i agree with the Christy Ring competitions etc. as in county championships, all club teams aren't threw into 1 championship. I just wish there were more games. Really Kilkenny will play 5 league games, 4 c'ship games and be All Ireland winners. I understand that there must be club committments etc. but i just think sometimes there is a far too high ratio of training to games.

Will there ever be a time where there will be 15 teams of equal standing playing for an All Ireland? I suppose you could say there are only 2 or 3 teams with a realistic chance of winning a football All Ireland.

I suppose everybody thinks they have the right idea on how to fix it but to do away with the Munster c'ship and Ulster football c'ship would be a big decision.

tbiggertycome

I've been reading about the different structures being proposed for an open hurling championship, which I agree would be the best way forward. First things first is you need to decide what teams should be included at different levels if you look at the attached image of a screen shot of a hurling ranking done on boards it gives a good indication of teams level over the last few years league and championship are included in this.

It shows that from Kilkenny 1st on 8900 to Limerick 8th on 8155 are relatively close and then there's a gap for a second grouping from 9th-Wexford on 7537 to 15th Aintrim on 6452

I think if the GAA replicated the Kilkenny club structure it would be the fairest for all involved. I've never heard too many gripes about the structure of the Kilkenny Championship and we all know that it has helped raise standards by providing competitive games. so that would run as follows an open draw for the top twelve teams so i did a quick draw which would have two groups of 6 in a completely open draw.
Group A
Cork
Kerry
Limerick
Offaly
Wexford
Waterford

Group B
Dublin
Galway
Westmeath
Tipperary
Kilkenny
Clare

This was just a random open draw and invariable these draws throw up stronger and weaker groups but a draw would be made every year like in the Kilkenny Championship.

So each team plays each other at least once and if you wanted more games you could play each other twice but eitherway you end up with a table at the end of the league portion of the Championship
so lets say the tables finish in this order
Group A
1 Waterford
2 Limerick
3 Wexford
4 Cork
5 Kerry
6 Offaly

Group B
1 Tipperary
2 Kilkenny
3 Galway
4 Clare
5 Dublin
6 Westmeath

Next Phase
League final -Waterford v Tipperary - 1stA v 1stB
League Shield - Kilkenny v Limerick - 2ndA v 2ndB

Championship round 1
Wexford v Clare - 3rdA v 4thB -Winner Clare =Wexford eliminated
Cork v Galway -3rdB v 4thA -Winner Cork =Galway eliminated

Relegation Semi's/Championship round 1
Kerry v Westmeath - 5thA v 6thB -Winner Westmeath = Kerry relegation final
Dublin v Offaly - 6thB v 5thA -Winner Dublin = Offaly relegation final

Relegation Final
Kerry v Offaly -Winner Kerry stays up Offaly relegated to the Christy Ring champ which would be reformated like the Liam McCarthy champ The winner of the Christy ring gets immediate promotion No promotion playoff games which are only a cheat to try and keep poor teams up and developing teams down.

Championship Quarter finals
Westmeath v Waterford -Winner Waterford = Westmeath eliminated
Dublin v Tipperary - Winner Dublin (shock result) = Tipperary eliminated
Kilkenny v Cork - Winner Kilkenny = Cork eliminated
Clare v Limerick - Winner Clare = Limerick eliminated

Championship Semi Finals
Waterford v Kilkenny - Winner Kilkenny
Clare v Dublin - Winner Clare

AI Final
Clare v Kilkenny Winner Kilkenny (obviously)

I think If you started the League element in March and ran off the 5 rounds of league games in 7 weeks with your League Final/ Shield played the first week of May. 2nd week of May the relegation semis followed by the first round games the next week. Last week in May Relegation Final. Championship quarter finals played in the first week in June, Semis in the last week in June with the AI final in mid July. This would leave a lot of the summer for counties to run off their club games in good conditions not slopping around in Oct or Nov.

You could spread the games out more but I would say it was manditory for counties to run a round of club championship games if there was more than a 3 week gap between intercounty games and to run off two rounds if there is more than a 5 week gap between intercounty matches.

Leinster and Munster championships could be played as warm up competitions instead of the Walsh cup and the likes in early part of the year.

Just an idea.

Faugheen

unrealtime wrote: »

<snip>

Actually as a Kilkenny man, I think you're talking absolute nonsense as well.

Canning not fit to lace TJ's boots? Come off it. TJ's been at an incredible level for the last 2 years but Canning is still an excellent hurler and he would walk into our team no matter how good we are.

Galway useless? They were beating us at HT and so much so that Cody had to act. It says more about how good Cody is than how poor Galway are.

Galway's stay in Leinster done nothing? If you would rather no opposition then so be it, but you're in the minority.

unrealtime

never mentioned Canning compared to TJ. Would you say Leinster hurling is in a better state now than 10 years ago. I'd say it's not.

MfMan

unrealtime wrote: »

never mentioned Canning compared to TJ. Would you say Leinster hurling is in a better state now than 10 years ago. I'd say it's not.

Probably not, but it was weak even back then. Since, Wexford and Offaly have become much weaker while Dublin have ebbed and flowed in that time. Galway have provided the most competition for KK since joining but I doubt if their presence has led to the decline in the aforementioned anyway.

kkclubhurling

Club games back tonight & over the weekend, three big games in Group B tonight

Martins vs Rower
Boro vs The Bridge
Village vs Fenians

As it stands this group is massively open and 4 of the teams could be looking at top spot depending tonight on results.

Martins vs Rower- Martins absolutely tore out of the blocks by sneaking past the Boro before trouncing The Bridge. They followed that up with a tight loss vs Fenians. Martins are short McGrath in the goal I think and hes a loss. Rower massively need a result to avoid being cut adrift at the bottom and id expect the summer conditions to suit them a bit better than the previous matches.

Dicksboro vs Bridge

This has the potential to be a right game between two young teams with a few old heads sprinkled about. The Bridge will have to make do without last years captain Enda Morrissey who is out and the Boro have a few missing through J1 and injury too. Could come down to who has the best players to come in, although the Bridge fire power led by Blanchfield, Cleere and Sean Morrissey could really cause damage.

Village vs Fenians

A hard one too call after the last round. Village struggled in the park vs Boro and Fenians had a good win vs Martins in Ballyragget. Comer pitch probably suits the Village although they dont posses the same pacey forward line they did two years ago when they hit Fenians for 5 or 6 in the same venue. Potential return of Luke Scanlon is a massive boost for Village and theyll be expecting to come through unscathed.

citykat

Just in from Boro V Bridge. Classic game of two halves. 1st half all Bridge. 2nd all Boro. Bridge went in at half time 5 pts up when they could have been 11. They had a penalty saved and Blanchfield (L) had a one on one saved when it looked easier to score. Looked ominous for the Boro at that stage as the Bridge were carving them open at will. Bridge started the second half with an early goal from Blanchfield putting them 8 pts up. All appeared lost for the Boro. In fairness the Boro dug deep from then and pulled themselves back into the match picking off points. Ollie Walsh put in a great shift in this half and was a major reason why they won. Others to shine were A Gaffney and Flynn. The Boro finished stronger and were deserved winners though some of the Bridge crowd weren't happy surrounding the ref and umpires as they walked off. Why? I don't know. Best for the Bridge were Lennon, Cleere N+J, Blanchfields (2) and Morrissey.
Buckley went off early in the first half with a calf injury. His movement had looked laboured before that.

Faugheen

unrealtime wrote: »

never mentioned Canning compared to TJ. Would you say Leinster hurling is in a better state now than 10 years ago. I'd say it's not.

Apologies for that. Mixed you up with someone else re: TJ and Canning.

unrealtime

Thanks Faugheen

JJs Left Hand

Carnage at Martins Rower last night. Paddy Nolan sent off after linesman said he'd knee'd him when the ball went over the sideline. Cleere gave the linesman every chance to back down asking him was it deliberate and then checking was he sure. Literally nobody else seen this and Paddy got a red. We managed to recover and get a draw and could have won it in the end. Mental stuff.

citykat

blackcard wrote: »

I would imagine the Bridge supporters were disgruntled that Pat Dunphy didn't send off a few of the Boro lads for off the ball striking and ripping a helmet off.

You were obviously at a different match.

dastardly00

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Carnage at Martins Rower last night. Paddy Nolan sent off after linesman said he'd knee'd him when the ball went over the sideline. Cleere gave the linesman every chance to back down asking him was it deliberate and then checking was he sure. Literally nobody else seen this and Paddy got a red. We managed to recover and get a draw and could have won it in the end. Mental stuff.

WTF?! He knee'd the linesman? :eek:

PáircLife

citykat wrote: »

You were obviously at a different match.

Didn't see that either!! They're finding Senior hurling a big step up...

JJs Left Hand

dastardly00 wrote: »

WTF?! He knee'd the linesman? :eek:

So he claimed. Ball went over the line and Paddy and his man went over with it and the pair of them and the linesman got tangled up. Linesman claimed Paddy knee'd him. I didn't see him do it and everyone in the area couldn't figure out what was going on until Cleere called the linesman out onto the field and asked him was he sure it was deliberate. Whole thing was farcical as he'd given the line ball to Rower when it was our ball as well

blackcard

Good wins for Danesfort and Mullinavat over O'Loughlins and Clara respectively. The regulation battle will be intriguing with Danesfort, Fenians, Bennettsbridge Mullinavat and the Rower in the mix. Tullaroan have been impressive at intermediate level and I fancy them to go all the way.

dirkmeister

blackcard wrote: »

Good wins for Danesfort and Mullinavat over O'Loughlins and Clara respectively. The regulation battle will be intriguing with Danesfort, Fenians, Bennettsbridge Mullinavat and the Rower in the mix. Tullaroan have been impressive at intermediate level and I fancy them to go all the way.

Mullinavat are safe from relegation.
Clara and Danesfort are sure to finish in the bottom two in that group.

You're right though, the relegation battle is going to be very hard fought.

blackcard

dirkmeister wrote: »

Mullinavat are safe from relegation.
Clara and Danesfort are sure to finish in the bottom two in that group.

You're right though, the relegation battle is going to be very hard fought.

Clara are too good to go down. Are positions decided by points difference or by results of games between teams?

dirkmeister

blackcard wrote: »

Clara are too good to go down. Are positions decided by points difference or by results of games between teams?

If two teams finish level, then it's head to head.
Points difference comes into it if three or more finish level.

Comer and Mullinavat have both beaten Clara and Danesfort so neither can be overtaken.


Not a chance Clara will go down but they'll have to do it the hard way.

JJs Left Hand

Relegation is between Danesfort and Johnstown and the Hogans and Murphy should see Danesfort through now they've given Leahy the heave. Johnstown are awful

blackcard

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Relegation is between Danesfort and Johnstown and the Hogans and Murphy should see Danesfort through now they've given Leahy the heave. Johnstown are awful

People have been saying that for a number of years but the Fenians have a habit of surviving.

JJs Left Hand

Very true. Nothing worse than playing Johnstown in Ballyragget. Sticky bastards

brookville

Good to see shane prendergast get through a full match after a frustrating injury.anyone know did richie hogan play or how the county men done for their respective clubs?hopefully no serious injuries,I know cillian buckley went off early in their win but I dont think it's to serious

JJs Left Hand

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Relegation is between Danesfort and Johnstown and the Hogans and Murphy should see Danesfort through now they've given Leahy the heave. Johnstown are awful

Who is managing Danesfort now?

northern lad

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Relegation is between Danesfort and Johnstown and the Hogans and Murphy should see Danesfort through now they've given Leahy the heave. Johnstown are awful

If Fenians beat Bbridge and Boro beat Rower, Fenians won't be in bottom two

JJs Left Hand

mezitozil wrote: »

Who is managing Danesfort now?

James Maher of Freshford as far as I know

Coogee

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

James Maher of Freshford as far as I know

James Meagher coach, Pat Treacy of Radio KK manager I heard. Tables a bit more clear cut after this weekend. Clara struggling is bit of a surprise in senior. Village have a nice look about them. The Boro were very impressive v Bridge.

Tullaroan flying in Intermediate. Probably between them, Carrickshock who are also going well again and Ballyragget. Glenmore are in a good position also.

Cornerback1

When is the final round of games...next week-end?

JJs Left Hand

Week after the semi final

Cornerback1

Wexford or Waterford it is in the semi-final then.

Hopefully all the lads have come through the games ok at the week-end.

Any word on James Maher?

kkclubhurling

Saw two games after this weekend and neither particularly great, was at Comer vs Ballyhale on Saturday and Ballyhale really blew Comer away without really leaving second gear.

TJ was brilliant and I thought Richie Reid at 6 was very good too, most of the rest of them played well without showing a huge amount. For Comer Conor Delaney did well enough, Fogarty did his best around the middle vs Fennelly and up front Sean Buggy fought hard.


The other game I saw was James Stephens vs Fenians, had hoped to make the Boro Bridge game but work intervened. It was hard to take much from this game as Fenians just seemed to be really poor. Matt Ruth gave an exhibition in the first half scoring 0-5 from play while Walton in the corner hit 0-4 in the game I think. The Village intercounty contingent looked steady without being overly tested. For Fenians JJ tried his best at the back and one of the Grehans shot some nice scores from play

Speak Now

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Wexford or Waterford it is in the semi-final then.

Hopefully all the lads have come through the games ok at the week-end.

Any word on James Maher?

Or Clare!

brookville

Speak Now wrote: »

Or Clare!

Afaik we'll play the winners of wexford/waterford

blue note

brookville wrote: »

Afaik we'll play the winners of wexford/waterford

Think they just avoid repeat pairings. So if waterford win you'll get us, if Galway win tipp will get them. If Wexford and clare win it'll be an open draw.

Cornerback1

Speak Now wrote: »

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Wexford or Waterford it is in the semi-final then.

Hopefully all the lads have come through the games ok at the week-end.

Any word on James Maher?

Or Clare!

I thought it will be the Cats V Waterford or Wexford and Tipp will play Clare or Galway?

Happyilylost

Cornerback1 wrote:

I thought it will be the Cats V Waterford or Wexford and Tipp will play Clare or Galway?

This is correct.

dastardly00

The semi-final pairings have NOT been determined (link).

Provincial Champions play a Quarter-Final Winner, draw to be made to determine pairings subject to the respective Provincial Champions not meeting the defeated Finalists from their own Province at this stage and, where feasible, the avoidance of repeat pairings.

minty81

Any word on Buckleys injury?