Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

citykat

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

What exaggeration. It's Cody's role to pick the team and he was bound to make changes up front given that two players carried the forward line last week.

There was no "springing" anyone. Change was expected. As you admit yourself (above) the player had a decent game but no more than that really. It was hardly an act of serious wizardry. And any wizardry might be also measured with reference to the success or otherwise of Mark Bergin's inclusion.

But then again it is hardly the time or place for perspective.

Sorry, I don't understand, is your whole point here that the word "wizardry" is wrong? Is that the sum of it?

IMO the sum of it is, **** the begrudgers.

unrealtime

Ah well I suppose we just have to go and beat them again - so boring.

Justice for the individual

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand, is your whole point here that the word "wizardry" is wrong? Is that the sum of it?

In a way, the wizardry was last week, where Kilkenny pulled a draw 'out of the hat', even though Waterford played brilliantly, and Kilkenny were completely out of the game for most of the match, apart from the last 5 minutes of ordinary time, and the extra time period.

In Thurles, Kilkenny, with BOTH teams playing to a high standard, were the better team, yet a draw looked on at the end of normal time, but the difference was, with a combination of luck and never say die spirit, Cody and his charges were able to put Waterford away.

Two great games, which in both cases, could have gone either way, but we'll take it.

Another thing, when Liam Blanchfield legitimately shouldered Austin Gleeson over the sideline, the referee awarded a free to Waterford. This was when Cody and the Kilkenny supporters finally had enough of the one-sided refereeing by McGrath, and voiced their disapproval. I am not so sure, but I pointed out to two guys from Clare, when TJ was awarded a free in the 31st minute of the first half, was that the first one he took?

Faugheen

'One-sided refereeing' - would you come off these bull**** theories.

mullinr2

Have Tipp improved since 2014 - yes.
Have Kilkenny improved since 2014 - no.
Since the last All Ireland between these two teams, we have lost Shefflin, Jj, Richie Power and Mick Fennelly will be injured. I have a feeling it will be a beating something along the lines of 2010.

Rosita

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand, is your whole point here that the word "wizardry" is wrong? Is that the sum of it?

More your use of exaggeration really. Cody had to make changes - one worked, one didn't. The one that didn't work does not deserve to be regarded as complete failure which reflects badly on the manager. Neither is the one that worked - up to a point - "wizardry".

I know you'd like to make the issue about a single word because then you can try to trivialise it but it's about OTT analysis really.

Charlie69

Rosita wrote: »

More your use of exaggeration really. Cody had to make changes - one worked, one didn't. The one that didn't work does not deserve to be regarded as complete failure which reflects badly on the manager. Neither is the one that worked - up to a point - "wizardry".

I know you'd like to make the issue about a single word because then you can try to trivialise it but it's about OTT analysis really.

My God you're annoying....another one for the ignore button

dirkmeister

Mark Bergin didn't work?!?

He certainly wasn't "bad".

Watch the game again..he played reasonably well for a lad starting his first game.

Himself and Blanchfield created plenty of space for Colin.

PaulKK

dirkmeister wrote: »

Mark Bergin didn't work?!?

He certainly wasn't "bad".

Watch the game again..he played reasonably well for a lad starting his first game.

Himself and Blanchfield created plenty of space for Colin.

I agree, he didn't do anything wrong, created scores and worked hard. Unlucky to be blocked down for a point too if I remember correctly.

JJs Left Hand

mullinr2 wrote: »

Have Tipp improved since 2014 - yes.

Have they? This seems to be the general consensus but have they?

James Barry is still full back, Kennedy and Maher are gettable in the half back line and we've proven before we can deal with Paraic. Breen scored a few points today but in general wasn't great.

Dan McCormack didn't exactly pull up trees.

I'd be very very worried about their full forward line clicking against our full back line but other than that I don't see this massive improvement everyone is talking about.


If Michael Fennelly didn't get injured yesterday I'd be pretty confident. With him unlikely to make it I think it's a pick em.

Also, Gleeson is a truly woeful keeper in my opinion. Goals to be gotten there.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rosita wrote: »

I know you'd like to make the issue about a single word because then you can try to trivialise it but it's about OTT analysis really.

I think you'll find it's you who is trying to make the issue.

blackcard

I would be afraid of Tipperary doing a number on us. John McGrath, Michael Breen and Ronan Maher seem to be improvements from 2014 whilst we will be missing Richie Power and Mick Fennelly along with JJ Delaney, all vital to our victory then. What concerned me was that we didn't push on when we went five points up against Waterford

Arcade_Tryer

blackcard wrote: »

What concerned me was that we didn't push on when we went five points up against Waterford

People will say it was close, but in truth KK dominated from start to finish and you're right, should really have pushed on and won by a few points. Guilty of some casual play and a lack of clinical finishing in the forwards at times. But that can be worked on in a short space of time.

Xenophile

unrealtime wrote: »

Ah well I suppose we just have to go and beat them again - so boring.

Just remember that ye faltered on the drive for five at the foot of Slievenamon.

cul beag

There will be nothing between both teams in the final. We thought by targeting your fullback line we would make inroads and it worked to a certain extent in the first half but clearly didn't in the second half as our 3 inside forwards were all replaced. Expect Tipp to do the same with Bubbles,Callanan and McGrath probably starting in there.
It was a pleasure to say that having attended both games that really there wasn't much between us,the difference being that Waterford played like ye did in the drawn game as in were hanging in there but ye were able to finish it out whereas we couldn't. Colin Fennelly cleaned us out both directly and indirectly,Richie Hogan drifting into positions between the lines did the same. As a Waterford man I applauded Mick Fennelly off as I wanted him to here my appreciation for an absolute colossus of a hurler. He is a man mountain an unbelievable athlete and will be irreplaceable in my opinion in the final. As a hurling supporter I truly hope it's not the last we see of him.
Credit must go to your never say die attitude and how Cody gets that on a continuous basis year in year out is phenomenal. We are in the process of trying to win one title since 1959,I would say if that ever happens we would have a job to repeat it on an ongoing basis just as Clare have found out since 2013 so to be in 10 finals in 11 years is remarkable.
We are getting there slowly,we have to believe our day will come,its one that will not be achieved easily but if we meet again next year or the year after I hope we are served with the same performances as we got on the last two games. Can we eventually get over the line against ye? Only time will tell but it won't be for the want of trying!! Best of luck in the final I for one will definitely be attending.

citykat

Xenophile wrote: »

unrealtime wrote: »

Ah well I suppose we just have to go and beat them again - so boring.

Just remember that ye faltered on the drive for five at the foot of Slievenamon.

And straight back on the horse the next year. Slievenamon has been pretty barren since.

Xenophile

citykat wrote: »

And straight back on the horse the next year.

I have to agree yes ye did get straight back on the horse probably a better horse the following year ! As the well known TV commentator, the late Bill O'Herlihy used to say " We will leave it there so ". The best of luck to both to both teams in the final and we can all look forward, I hope to a magnificent game !

dastardly00

cul beag wrote: »

We are getting there slowly,we have to believe our day will come,its one that will not be achieved easily but if we meet again next year or the year after I hope we are served with the same performances as we got on the last two games. Can we eventually get over the line against ye? Only time will tell but it won't be for the want of trying!! Best of luck in the final I for one will definitely be attending.

If Waterford continue to play like they did in the two matches against KK, I have no doubt that they will eventually get the reward (an AI title) that they deserve.

dubcat51

Fear no one with our spirit .think tipps full back line is not as good as ours.also all the pressure on tipp another beating by us would be a disaster.bring it on .

hurler on de ditch

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

People will say it was close, but in truth KK dominated from start to finish and you're right, should really have pushed on and won by a few points. Guilty of some casual play and a lack of clinical finishing in the forwards at times. But that can be worked on in a short space of time.

seriously!

unrealtime

Free count first half Waterford 7 Kilkenny 2. No way could that be considered one-sided.

me89

unrealtime wrote: »

Free count first half Waterford 7 Kilkenny 2. No way could that be considered one-sided.

Kilkenny didn't get a free until the 27th minute which was strange for a match played with such intensity.

mountgomery burns

unrealtime wrote: »

Free count first half Waterford 7 Kilkenny 2. No way could that be considered one-sided.

Teams aren't automatically entitled to the same number of frees. McGrath let a lot go, which is great for a neutral but will always frustrate the fans of the teams involved. Makes a much better spectacle than Barry Kelly blowing everything today but finding a balance between the two is hard.

There was a lot of complaining, booing and ironic cheering by Kilkenny fans at the match and look we all get carried away in the heat of the moment. But It was obvious to me by thhe reaction when the incident happened, that if Tadhg Bourke's yellow card when Fennelly barged into him had correctly been given as a free out there would have been boos for about ten minutes.

It might be worthwhile taking stock and considering that you are not impartial and therefore it is very difficult to fairly assess a refs performance in a match your team are involved in.

Cornerback1

Re: James Grath. There was two major clear cut frees that were given/not given. One was the shoulder to shoulder by Blanchfield. It was a clear shoulder to shoulder and should have been a line ball to KK. It wasn't even debateable especially with the linesman right beside it. I think back to Richie Hogan being manhandled rugby style over the line, under the Cusack Stand last Sunday and W'ford got the sideline ball. Two different referees i know but two wrong decisions.

The second one was the foul on Paul Murphy deep in the second half as he was coming out. Clear foul and i could see it 80 yards away. Result was a point to Waterford.

I always think when you hear any crowd shouting in unison or cheering ironically when their team gets a free, then the ref has made a bad decision.

adrian522

I think supporters at matches always seem to come away with an idea that the ref was biased against them. Happened to me loads, watched a game, thought the ref was awful, watch a repeat on TV and reassess the opinion.

Agree with you on the shoulder though, it did seem like a fair challenge, but no ref is going to get every decision right. On the balance of things I think he did a good job overall and contributed to a great game.

Justice for the individual

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Re: James Grath. There was two major clear cut frees that were given/not given. One was the shoulder to shoulder by Blanchfield. It was a clear shoulder to shoulder and should have been a line ball to KK. It wasn't even debateable especially with the linesman right beside it. I think back to Richie Hogan being manhandled rugby style over the line, under the Cusack Stand last Sunday and W'ford got the sideline ball. Two different referees i know but two wrong decisions.

The second one was the foul on Paul Murphy deep in the second half as he was coming out. Clear foul and i could see it 80 yards away. Result was a point to Waterford.

I always think when you hear any crowd shouting in unison or cheering ironically when their team gets a free, then the ref has made a bad decision.

Yes, all too familiar a story. I have already pointed out two of those incidents. I did not pick up the Paul Murphy incident. I will re-watch it later.

Any referee worth his salt would know about the illegal bundling tackle on Richie Hogan last week in Croke Park, but Richie just laughed it off. The shoulder tackle by Blanchfield was an example of a perfectly executed and legal shoulder which knocked the stuffing out of Austin Gleeson (a great player but inclined to be impetuous). A tackle like that should be appreciated by the referees and linesmen and not penalised.

Blanchfield had a very good championship debut, and in fact, you could see the outfield players looking up to pick him out, as he had the measure of his marker, in breaking for the ball and collecting a high ball in. Connors hardly touched the ball, so it looked like Blanchfields side was favoured.

At times referees are their own worst enemy, and picking on Brian Cody for remonstrating against sloppy refereeing is the lazy way out, instead of referees making decisions with careless abandon. What authority has the linesman apart from waving their flag, and can he advise the match referee of his wrong/bad decision making. The team managers and supporters certainly let them hear all about it.

Badabing

Will Brian Gavin get the final?

mountgomery burns

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Yes, all too familiar a story. I have already pointed out two of those incidents. I did not pick up the Paul Murphy incident. I will re-watch it later.

Any referee worth his salt would know about the illegal bundling tackle on Richie Hogan last week in Croke Park, but Richie just laughed it off. The shoulder tackle by Blanchfield was an example of a perfectly executed and legal shoulder which knocked the stuffing out of Austin Gleeson (a great player but inclined to be impetuous). A tackle like that should be appreciated by the referees and linesmen and not penalised.

Blanchfield had a very good championship debut, and in fact, you could see the outfield players looking up to pick him out, as he had the measure of his marker, in breaking for the ball and collecting a high ball in. Connors hardly touched the ball, so it looked like Blanchfields side was favoured.

It was Jamie Barron who Blanchfield shouldered.

Justice for the individual

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It was Jamie Barron who Blanchfield shouldered.

Sorry Mountgomery - you are right. It is a bit hard to pin down Austin for a shoulder all right - some player too.

dastardly00

Badabing wrote: »

Will Brian Gavin get the final?

I would assume so.

The clear trend of the last few years is that the referee for the final wasn't in charge for either of the semi-finals. So that would appear to rule out Barry Kelly, James Owens, and James McGrath for the final next month. Brian Gavin is the most obvious choice remaining.

Year | Final | Semi-Final (Leinster Winner) | Semi-Final (Munster Winner)
2016 | | J Owens / J McGrath (Replay) | B Kelly
2015 | J Owens | B Gavin | B Kelly
2014 | B Kelly / B Gavin (Replay) | J McGrath | J Owens
2013 | B Gavin / J McGrath (Replay) | J Owens | J Ryan
2012 | B Kelly / J McGrath (Replay) | B Gavin | C McAllister
2011 | B Gavin | B Kelly | C McAllister
2010 | M Wadding | B Gavin | J Sexton

Cornerback1

In summary, what a game. It was an honour to be there. 2 greats teams giving everything for the cause. The first half was unreal. I couldn't believe it when Mc Grath blew for half time - flew by. Great start by both teams - goals galore in the first 20mins which set the tone. Waterford hung in there and i was thinking what are the odds of the 3 matches (2 camogie) all going to extra time. Super entertainment. I could see Mahony's free dropping short and was even thinking, 'let it go over Murphy, take no chances and we'll regroup for extra time'. How wrong I was? What a take under pressure and under the lights!

The game flowed and ebbed throughout and KK's intensity from the first whistle was evident. Both managements tried to isolate their full forwards one on one inside and it worked, especially for Colin F. He worked realley hard and his touch and vision for Larkin's point was excellent. P draig chipped in with 2 quick points and T.J. was really good in open play and got on a lot of ball. Blanchfield could have had a goal in 2nd half but he had a really good championship starter. Got a handy point early on which set him up well. As well as that, he caught a great ball when it was needed and won a crucial free from it late in the game.

Full back line done well - really worked hard. Gleeson's goal came from bad control from Cillian and their 2nd goal was well worked and that was their tactic. Paul Murphy gets through a ton of work in there - great at doing the basics with no fuss.

Half back line was more assertive on Saturday evening. Really worked hard. Will Joyce come back for the final and Conor got to midfield?

T.J. and Richie clogged up the middle third and Richie is well able to find the small pockets of space. That's all he needs. He always seems to do the right thing with the sliotar. His decision making is first class. T.J. seemed to direct things in there nearly like a quarterback. He always has 2 or 3 men around him which allows time and space for others. An example of this was P draig's second point - a class reverse pop pass to take out 2 Waterford lads. He chipped in with a great point from play in the first half.

Half forwards worked hard also and the rucks were evenly contested. Nice vision by Wally to spot Colin. Others may have attempted to take it on themselves but role reversal from last Sunday's goal.

Quiet day for Bergin but it'll stand to him. Not sure who Cody will start in the corner in the final but there's a place to be played for.

Loved the way lads stayed on the pitch to sign autographs etc. for the youngsters after the game. #downtoearth

Final word to big Mick. Hope your injury is not serious and that you'll be back playing again. Such a servant and such a warrior. If you're not available for final, the lads need to do it for you as much as themselves etc. You have given so much to that team in terms of energy and commitment. Best of luck with the recovery.

blackcard

adrian522 wrote: »

I think supporters at matches always seem to come away with an idea that the ref was biased against them. Happened to me loads, watched a game, thought the ref was awful, watch a repeat on TV and reassess the opinion.

Agree with you on the shoulder though, it did seem like a fair challenge, but no ref is going to get every decision right. On the balance of things I think he did a good job overall and contributed to a great game.

I agree with you, the Waterford supporters around me were livid when one of their players had a free given against him for catching the ball three times but seeing it back on tv, the ref was right. The ref let a lot go which meant that both sets of supporters were going to be aggrieved. At the match, I was certain that the ref had 'done' us,but watching it back on tv, it is clear that he could have given frees to both teams. On the other hand, his approach helped in making this an epic battle. I suppose if both sets of fans are unhappy, there is a good chance that you were balanced. It is probably easy for me to say this seeing as kk won but I going to make a resolution to not criticise refs any more (This will start immediately after the AI)

unrealtime

It's great for us that neither Kelly nor McGrath can ref the final. Both are unable to give us fair play.

Cornerback1

@KilkennyCLG
Kilkenny GAA tonight confirm that Ml Fennelly has ruptured his Achilles' tendon & is out of All Irl Final. We wish him well in his recovery.

adrian522

Cornerback1 wrote: »

@KilkennyCLG
Kilkenny GAA tonight confirm that Ml Fennelly has ruptured his Achilles' tendon & is out of All Irl Final. We wish him well in his recovery.

Terrible news. Sad to say but hard to see him coming back from this.

dubcat51

Terrible for mick.hooefully he will be back in the black and amber soon.places up for grab.can see someone like john walsh making the bench.plenty of rabbits in codys hat.

amber69

Is Ger Awards back training? If not I'd chance John Walsh right corner forward.

Whiplash85

unrealtime wrote: »

It's great for us that neither Kelly nor McGrath can ref the final. Both are unable to give us fair play.

Yea Lets have a ref that has Tommy Walshs jersey on his mantlepiece, allowed Tommy to flake him accross the face in the All Ireland final and that can be intimidated by Cody and is from the same province as us instead.:rolleyes:

Utopia Parkway

Cornerback1 wrote: »

@KilkennyCLG
Kilkenny GAA tonight confirm that Ml Fennelly has ruptured his Achilles' tendon & is out of All Irl Final. We wish him well in his recovery.

One of the toughest injuries to come back from sadly.

Michael Kavanagh

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea Lets have a ref that has Tommy Walshs jersey on his mantlepiece, allowed Tommy to flake him accross the face in the All Ireland final and that can be intimidated by Cody and is from the same province as us instead.:rolleyes:

Is it not going to be Nigel Owens

Buck Melanoma

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea Lets have a ref that has Tommy Walshs jersey on his mantlepiece, allowed Tommy to flake him accross the face in the All Ireland final and that can be intimidated by Cody and is from the same province as us instead.:rolleyes:

Look back on the incident, that's not exactly what happened though is it ? Must be terrible now that Tommy is not playing anymore , have to find someone else to be the pantomime villain. Why wouldn't he have a jersey belonging to one of the greatest hurlers of our time. Did he not win all stars on 4 lines of the pitch? 9 all Ireland's etc. :rolleyes:

Realt Dearg Sec

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Look back on the incident, that's not exactly what happened though is it ? Must be terrible now that Tommy is not playing anymore , have to find someone else to be the pantomime villain. Why wouldn't he have a jersey belonging to one of the greatest hurlers of our time. Did he not win all stars on 4 lines of the pitch? 9 all Ireland's etc. :rolleyes:

Not worth having the argument IMO! He's a good ref as these things go, I think we complain too much about refs in KK, the only thing worse is the amount of complaining other fans do about refs' treatment of KK! Hopefully the discussion before and especially after the match won't end up being endless **** about referees. Thought the ref on Saturday was very good all in all, let the players at it. Would be happy enough to see him in again. My main problem with Kelly is he tends to be a bit whistle happy.

brookville

Devastating news for michael and a huge loss for kk.it makes the task ahead all the more difficult but if coady can get the match ups right we have a chance,obviously keeping their full foward line quite will be the winning or losing of this game I think.I thought fogarty was caught out a few times in possession and joyce will probably come back at six where he'd suit bonner.I know we say it every year that this would be his best one ever but if he wins this one it would be some achievement.

amber69

brookville wrote: »

Devastating news for michael and a huge loss for kk.it makes the task ahead all the more difficult but if coady can get the match ups right we have a chance,obviously keeping their full foward line quite will be the winning or losing of this game I think.I thought fogarty was caught out a few times in possession and joyce will probably come back at six where he'd suit bonner.I know we say it every year that this would be his best one ever but if he wins this one it would be some achievement.

His best one ever was 2006

iMacHunt

You would have to feel desperately sorry for Mick Fennelly of course but his inter county career may not be over.

I ruptured my achilles two years ago playing hurling, I had an op and was in a cast for around 5 or 6 weeks. There were no complications and the physio, demanding as it was, worked well.

From the time of the injury to the time I was back playing fully was around 5 months.

Hopefully Mick will be the same and he will be back at full tilt next year.

Good luck to the team in the final, no fear of Tipp!

danganabu

iMacHunt wrote: »

You would have to feel desperately sorry for Mick Fennelly of course but his inter county career may not be over.

I ruptured my achilles two years ago playing hurling, I had an op and was in a cast for around 5 or 6 weeks. There were no complications and the physio, demanding as it was, worked well.

From the time of the injury to the time I was back playing fully was around 5 months.

Hopefully Mick will be the same and he will be back at full tilt next year.

Good luck to the team in the final, no fear of Tipp!

All well and good in an ideal scenario but the reality is that Mick Fennelly has had a litany of injuries that would have already ended the career of a lesser player, as much as I hate to say it I feel that his inter county playing days are over.

Whiplash85

I think an achillies injury is worse than your standard leg break of cruciate ligament. They are notoriously hard to get right and the issue with an achillies tendon is that that particular area has very bad blood flow.

unrealtime

I would expect him to come back. If necessary he could go into goals and be the best there. The man can do anything. I'd say his scoring percentages are second to none also as well as his other attributes that make him such a fantastic player.

adrian522

I don't know, I'd say he was a candidate for retirement this year anyway. If he is facing into a year on the sidelines and looking at a comeback in 2018 I'd say it would be a bridge too far.

The chances of him being back on the team in 2017 would be slim enough I'd say, talk of a 9 month rehab would not be encouraging.

Cornerback1

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't know, I'd say he was a candidate for retirement this year anyway. If he is facing into a year on the sidelines and looking at a comeback in 2018 I'd say it would be a bridge too far.

The chances of him being back on the team in 2017 would be slim enough I'd say, talk of a 9 month rehab would not be encouraging.

I suppose it all depends how long he's out for: 6-9 months? He could, if suited, miss the National League and tailor his training etc. to be ready for the championship in June time. Who knows. He's a fit lad naturally.

More important thing is that he gets the best medical care and given time to have a think about the future.

What a soldier he is anyway - a real warrior who has had some tough times with injuries through his career. Great to have seen him play and always has had a great influence in games for the Cats.