Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Realt Dearg Sec

danganabu wrote: »

Absolutely, I was fully in agreement that he shouldn't start against Galway but he must start this game.

He has had his disciplinary problems and the red card against Limerick had been coming, his punishment was a one match suspension, which we walked through and if allowed to walk back into a team which had performed to a man in his absence for basically 2 full games would have sent out all the wrong messages and he would have learnt nothing.

Mick Ryan played it perfect, let him stew keep him on the bench and eventually let him off the hook, he will be bursting a gut in training the next few weeks trying to get back in the first 15.

Discipline issue aside and possible question marks over his fitness ( looks a little over weight to me) he is still pure quality and we will need all the quality we can get, even KK's most ardent supporters will admit that a FF line of Bubbles, Seamie and John McGrath is a huge concern, it would be for any FB line tbh.

The question for Kilkenny is how to starve your full forwards of ball, we're not likely to win the battle itself.

dastardly00

C__MC wrote: »

For all the talk that holden and prendergast are weak in the full back line, I have yet to see them exposed at all at this level.

The defeat to Clare in the league semi-final.

Okay it wasn't a championship match and Paul Murphy wasn't playing... But, for me anyway, it shows that if things start going wrong in the full-back line, they can go badly wrong.

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The question for Kilkenny is how to starve your full forwards of ball, we're not likely to win the battle itself.

Absolutely, I mean for all are half forward lines endeavour they are not going to trouble the scoreboard, Noel McGrath the obvious exception and even Noel is hot and cold at this stage. But its for this very reason that Mick Fennelly's absence cannot be under estimated, if Tipp win midfield I can only see one outcome. But that is obviously easier said than done.

Tipp have their concerns in the the FB line as well, Cathal Barrett had been having an outstanding year up until last Sunday where he really struggled aerially and Cody will not have missed that fact, KK have plenty of guys that could expose that, and as we all know Cody is very much of the ilk to ''hammer the hammer'' from a Tipp perspective the hope is that last SUnday was a blip in Barrett's case.

Cornerback1

dastardly00 wrote: »

C__MC wrote: »

For all the talk that holden and prendergast are weak in the full back line, I have yet to see them exposed at all at this level.

The defeat to Clare in the league semi-final.

Okay it wasn't a championship match and Paul Murphy wasn't playing... But, for me anyway, it shows that if things start going wrong in the full-back line, they can go badly wrong.

I think that Murphy coming off his line twice didn't help the full back line. Bit rash to be honest. It skewed the result. Not saying we'd have beat Clare on the day but it didn't help matters. He did it once in drawn game V Waterford.

unrealtime

Kilkenny have at least 5 that did not start in 2014 final. Shows that we have a young team and that it keeps being refreshed. That is one of the reasons we remain at the top.

Charlie69

unrealtime wrote: »

Kilkenny have at least 5 that did not start in 2014 final. Shows that we have a young team and that it keeps being refreshed. That is one of the reasons we remain at the top.

That's one way of looking at it, on the other hand surely you would prefer to have Jackie Tyrell(2014 version), JJ Delaney, Mick Fennelly and Richie Power on the starting fifteen for Sept 4th???

Not to mention Henry Shefflin and Brian Hogan (started the drawn game) on the bench.

unrealtime

Tipp are in a bad place so.

Charlie69

unrealtime wrote: »

Tipp are in a bad place so.

Are they??? , as far as I can see Tipp are a hugely improved outfit compared to the 2014 team while we have regressed without a doubt. We're up against it this time I'm afraid.

dubcat51

All that matters is what happens on the day with the players selected.I For one have always felt we have players who can come in and perform given the chance.yes we might not be as srong as 14 but I dont see tipp being better than their 14 team.we know kk will perform (they always do)tipp are yet unproven when they chips are down.

blackcard

Comparing the two teams.
Eoin Murphy v Darren Gleeson. No advantage.
Paul Murphy v Cathal Barrett. No advantage
Joey Holden v James Barry. Advantage Tipp
Michael Cahill v Shane Prendergast
Advantage Tipp
Padraig Walsh v Seamus Kennedy
Advantage KK
Kieran Joyce v Ronan Maher. Advantage Tipp.
Cillian Buckley v Pauric Maher. No advantage
Conor Fogarty v Brendan Maher. No advantage
Lester Ryan v Michael Breen. Advantage Tipp.
Walter Walsh v Dan McCormack. Advantage KK
Richie Hogan v Bonnar Maher. Advantage KK
TJ Reid v Noel McGrath. Advantage KK.
Liam Blanchfield v John McGrath. Advantage Tipp
Colin Fennelly v Seamus Callinan. Advantage Tipp
Eoin Larkin v John O'Dwyer
Advantage Tipp.
Bench. Advantage Tipp.
Tipps to lose

dubcat51

Barrett as good as paul murphy.ronan maher better than joyce.barry better than joey holden.Wouldnt agree with those .also its how you play as a team not as individuals.example walsh joyce buckley.(kk have not lost a competitive game when this line has started a game)

mountgomery burns

dubcat51 wrote: »

Barrett as good as paul murphy.ronan maher better than joyce.barry better than joey holden.Wouldnt agree with those .also its how you play as a team not as individuals.example walsh joyce buckley.(kk have not lost a competitive game when this line has started a game)

It's a wonder then that Cody didn't start Joyce in the replay.

Cornerback1

dubcat51 wrote: »

Barrett as good as paul murphy.ronan maher better than joyce.barry better than joey holden.Wouldnt agree with those .also its how you play as a team not as individuals.example walsh joyce buckley.(kk have not lost a competitive game when this line has started a game)

I agree. Individual match ups are all well and good but at this level, it's down to a panel of at least 20. The team ethic will out usually.

In some cases I actually counted up a newspaper players' rating and the losing team had one or two points more than the winning team. Strange but true, although probably just an oversight by the journalist/editor.

Obviously a bit of magic by an individual will help but collectively it's all about how the teams perform on the day. A good bench also helps!!

There is no doubt that both teams are even enough in terms of players but it'll depend on match ups, individual magic, team collective and a little bit of luck on the day.

After the game, we'll all be saying this and that - Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!!

dubcat51

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It's a wonder then that Cody didn't start Joyce in the replay.

He was injured.didnt make the 26 maych day squad.sure we will see him back gor the final.

dastardly00

dubcat51 wrote: »

He was injured.didnt make the 26 maych day squad.sure we will see him back gor the final.

I didn't actually know that. What was his injury?

Realt Dearg Sec

Didn't hear that either, presumed he was dropped because he was roasted?

randd1

Charlie69 wrote: »

Are they??? , as far as I can see Tipp are a hugely improved outfit compared to the 2014 team while we have regressed without a doubt. We're up against it this time I'm afraid.

While there's no doubt we've regressed a bit, it shouldn't be forgotten that this side is going for 3 in a row.

Tipperary's improvement can only be measured against the best of what's out there in the AI series, as the quality of games they've faced in Munster the past few years has been shocking.

Tipp were impressive in beating a Galway side that quite frankly were the better team but just didn't take their chances. It takes a very good side to win an AI SF when not playing well as Tipp did.

But Galway were the better side, they physically dominated Tipp as well throughout the game. Given the 75 minutes of intensity and physicality from our lads the night before, there's little doubt in my mind that we can not only match but beat Tipp on that front.

As I said, we have regressed a bit, but we're still going for 3 in a row. For me though Tipp's improvement is hardly that noticeable, they're not the same team as two years ago, and whereas Kilkenny have won the AI when they regressed, Tipp have won two Munsters of poor quality and scraped past a Galway side that were a better team than them.

Ultimately the AI will tell a lot. While we've regressed a bit, Tipp have too and a lot further than what we did, and their improvement is based on the much further slide. Neither side have the same quality as two years ago, the only difference is we have the big scalp of the last two years.

For me it's hard to judge Tipp based on the poverty of the Munster championship. At least in Leinster, Kilkenny have faced Galway who are the third best side in the country and the ones most likely to take out the top two, and even at that we've had it much easier against them than Tipp. The SF was the one high quality knockout match in which Tipp have had to dig deep to win since the the Galway game of 2014 in the early rounds.

Have Tipp have improved enough to win? I think they're more direct and hard working but I would have still my doubts given their record against the better sides the last few years, but they certainly look like a better goal threat than the last few years too, and I think that might be difference.

brookville

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Didn't hear that either, presumed he was dropped because he was roasted?

There was talk he was injured but he was part of the 26 on the night and he was warming up at different times along with the other subs.This is a great chance for tipp to get the kk monkey off their back but it'll take a huge performance from them.If we can somehow keep tabs on their full foward line we have a great chance.the match ups will be crucial and the team selection will be intresting.

dubcat51

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Didn't hear that either, presumed he was dropped because he was roasted?

No chance of being roasted playing on bonner maher.joyce has always had his number.

Realt Dearg Sec

dubcat51 wrote: »

No chance of being roasted playing on bonner maher.joyce has always had his number.

I mean her was roasted against Gleeson the first day against Waterford, presumed that was why he was dropped, not because of an injury. Didn't hear anything about that.

Maher is more suited to Joyce's style of play alright.

Cornerback1

Mick Fennelly upbeat enough!!!

Michael Fennelly is confident that the Achilles tendon injury he sustained in last Saturday's All-Ireland SHC semi-final replay won't end his hurling career.

The injury, which is one of several he has suffered down the years, rules the midfielder of the All-Ireland final against Tipperary on September 4. Fennelly will undergo surgery on Monday and is expected to be out of action for at least six months.

I ve had a lot of injuries - especially with the back - it s been a rough few years, Fennelly said in an interview with Aidan Cooney on TV3's Ireland AM yesterday morning.

I ve been here before but I ve no doubt it ll come back right again. We ll just see how it is. You can t rule out anything.

If your body can t cope with the load that carries it during the season, you might have to step away from it but we ll cross that bridge. I ve no intention of retiring at the moment.

Fingers crossed everything will go well with that (operation). Six weeks then in a cast and then another six to eight weeks in a boot and hopefully then by next February or March I ll be back playing a bit of sport.

danganabu

dubcat51 wrote: »

He was injured.didnt make the 26 maych day squad.sure we will see him back gor the final.

dastardly00 wrote: »

I didn't actually know that. What was his injury?

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Didn't hear that either, presumed he was dropped because he was roasted?

You didn't hear it because its not true, dubcat never let the truth get in the way of a good story to be fair to him!

A bit like when he claims that Joyce has ''always'' had Bonner's number, when they have only marked each other once and pretty much every KK player was on top that day.

danganabu

randd1 wrote: »

While there's no doubt we've regressed a bit, it shouldn't be forgotten that this side is going for 3 in a row.

Tipperary's improvement can only be measured against the best of what's out there in the AI series, as the quality of games they've faced in Munster the past few years has been shocking.

Tipp were impressive in beating a Galway side that quite frankly were the better team but just didn't take their chances. It takes a very good side to win an AI SF when not playing well as Tipp did.

But Galway were the better side, they physically dominated Tipp as well throughout the game. Given the 75 minutes of intensity and physicality from our lads the night before, there's little doubt in my mind that we can not only match but beat Tipp on that front.

As I said, we have regressed a bit, but we're still going for 3 in a row. For me though Tipp's improvement is hardly that noticeable, they're not the same team as two years ago, and whereas Kilkenny have won the AI when they regressed, Tipp have won two Munsters of poor quality and scraped past a Galway side that were a better team than them.

Ultimately the AI will tell a lot. While we've regressed a bit, Tipp have too and a lot further than what we did, and their improvement is based on the much further slide. Neither side have the same quality as two years ago, the only difference is we have the big scalp of the last two years.

For me it's hard to judge Tipp based on the poverty of the Munster championship. At least in Leinster, Kilkenny have faced Galway who are the third best side in the country and the ones most likely to take out the top two, and even at that we've had it much easier against them than Tipp. The SF was the one high quality knockout match in which Tipp have had to dig deep to win since the the Galway game of 2014 in the early rounds.

Have Tipp have improved enough to win? I think they're more direct and hard working but I would have still my doubts given their record against the better sides the last few years, but they certainly look like a better goal threat than the last few years too, and I think that might be difference.

I could have sworn that Waterford were in the last two Munster championships?

unrealtime

Munster championship have been poor for at least the last 50 years. In that time Munster teams have won only a third of the all Ireland's on offer. Hurling in Munster has not been the standard for decades now.

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

Munster championship have been poor for at least the last 50 years. In that time Munster teams have won only a third of the all Ireland's on offer. Hurling in Munster has not been the standard for decades now.

A small bit of cop on every now and again wouldn't go astray?? Your not too hot on the auld fractions either!!

dirkmeister

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I mean her was roasted against Gleeson the first day against Waterford, presumed that was why he was dropped, not because of an injury. Didn't hear anything about that.

Maher is more suited to Joyce's style of play alright.

There were rumours going around the week before the replay that he was concussed during the drawn game.

unrealtime

Bionn an firinne searbh

danganabu

Changing language doesn't make it any more of a stupid claim, 20/50 is not a third btw, should have went to maths while you were getting the Irish lessons!

Dick phelan

In fairness anybody could get roasted by Austin Gleeson when he plays the way he did the first day against ye, Joyce is a fine hurler i wouldn't be afraid to play him against Tipp just because a hurler of Austin Gleesons quality gave him a hard time that can happen to the best in the game if there marking one of the best hurlers in the country.

randd1

danganabu wrote: »

I could have sworn that Waterford were in the last two Munster championships?

Waterford were not near good enough last year, and were easily beaten by Tipp.

They were so poor in this years Munster it was actually unbelievable.

They only added intrigue to the Munster finals, they lacked the quality in their performance both years.

And even at that they were light years ahead of the other Munster sides.

dubcat51

Anyone can have a bad day.kilkenny hurlers dont have 2 many.cant remember a kilkenny player having 2 bad days in a row.team ethic kicks in when someone is having a off day to insure the result.thats what seperates us from everyone else.

JimboJones99

Dick phelan wrote: »

In fairness anybody could get roasted by Austin Gleeson when he plays the way he did the first day against ye, Joyce is a fine hurler i wouldn't be afraid to play him against Tipp just because a hurler of Austin Gleesons quality gave him a hard time that can happen to the best in the game if there marking one of the best hurlers in the country.

Exactly, he had a bad day, happens to the best of them. I would also have no problem putting Joyce back in there. I'd say he is chomping at the bit to get back out there

adrian522

Harsh...

https://twitter.com/PaulMurphykk/status/767822199097090049

Cornerback1

Brian Gavin to referee the final - will he need a helmet this time!!!!

pmy.murphy

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Brian Gavin to referee the final - will he need a helmet this time!!!!

More like the players will need gladiatorial gear Id say. Gavin is fond of letting the game flow

unrealtime

He hates Tipp

Whiplash85

Yea definitely advantage Kilkenny with the Gavin appointment for reasons I wont get into as I could incur another ban from this forum. Even with Tipps manner of victory in the munster final it didn't slip my radar what an utterly shocking performance he put in that day. Sometimes you have to wonder.

Interestingly with such a small pool of referees Barry Kelly officiated at least 2 championship games a year for Kilkenny between the years of 2008-2014 aside from 2010. Since 2014 Kilkenny have played 10 championship games and he has been the man in the middle for NONE of them.

adrian522

Given his performance in 2014 the only surprise is that he ever got another senior championship game.

citykat

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea definitely advantage Kilkenny with the Gavin appointment for reasons I wont get into as I could incur another ban from this forum. Even with Tipps manner of victory in the munster final it didn't slip my radar what an utterly shocking performance he put in that day. Sometimes you have to wonder.

Interestingly with such a small pool of referees Barry Kelly officiated at least 2 championship games a year for Kilkenny between the years of 2008-2014 aside from 2010. Since 2014 Kilkenny have played 10 championship games and he has been the man in the middle for NONE of them.

Wtf. Does Kelly have to ref the AI EVERY year? What is the fixation with Kelly not getting it this year? Given the no. of inter county refs he should only be getting it every 7/8 years.

Whiplash85

citykat wrote: »

Wtf. Does Kelly have to ref the AI EVERY year? What is the fixation with Kelly not getting it this year? Given the no. of inter county refs he should only be getting it every 7/8 years.

Maybe do a bit of research before you make such outlandish claims.
Gavin has reffed 4 of the last 6 AI's so maybe substitute Gavin with Kelly in your above statement and then you might make a bit of sense. The pertinent point here is that Kelly hasn't refereed any of Kilkennys last 10 championship games over a 2 year period. Before that he reffed on average 2 a year. Do you not think thats a bit strange? Do the maths. Even more interesting is the double standards. Marty asked in an interview after the 09 all Ireland were a couple of decisions very debatable and that Kilkenny benefited from a few of kirwans brainfarts that day. Cody was less than impressed to say the least. Now Kelly it seems cant get a game when KK are involved.

dubcat51

After the free in the last minute against jackie in 12 hogan in 14 and sheffs sending off in 13 shoudnt ever get another kk game.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

From reading a certain Tipp forum, there are many Tipperary people of the opinion that the biggest obstacle to Tipp winning the All-Ireland is Brian Gavin

Whiplash85

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

From reading a certain Tipp forum, there are many Tipperary people of the opinion that the biggest obstacle to Tipp winning the All-Ireland is Brian Gavin

Haha saw that too. There is 6 pages of a thread dedicated to it. I dont think Tipp people will exaggerate when they say they got a shiver down their spine when they saw the appointment. I am surprised the odds on the game haven't swung dramatically.

danganabu

If KK win it will not be down to Brain Gavin, it will simply be that they were the better team on the day, referees don't win or lose games players do, simples!

Whiplash85

danganabu wrote: »

If KK win it will not be down to Brain Gavin, it will simply be that they were the better team on the day, referees don't win or lose games players do, simples!

What a meaninless cliche. You're trying to tell me that if 45 seconds of additional time wasn't magiced up in the 2013 All Ireland that Cork wouldn't have won. I can think of so many examples over the years. a referee has to make more decisions in a game than any player. If he gets a few of them wrong it makes all the difference. So to surmise yes referees can be the winning and losing of the game. We are talking about tiny margins here.

Rasputin11

danganabu wrote: »

If KK win it will not be down to Brain Gavin, it will simply be that they were the better team on the day, referees don't win or lose games players do, simples!

Tell any Louth football person that.

danganabu

Whiplash85 wrote: »

What a meaninless cliche. You're trying to tell me that if 45 seconds of additional time wasn't magiced up in the 2013 All Ireland that Cork wouldn't have won. I can think of so many examples over the years. a referee has to make more decisions in a game than any player. If he gets a few of them wrong it makes all the difference. So to surmise yes referees can be the winning and losing of the game. We are talking about tiny margins here.

No what I'm telling you is that Cork had no one to blame only themselves, they missed numerous chances and let a poor Clare team back in, i think time have since proven that neither was good enough to win an AI in truth.

An the referee dint magic up any time, please please look up the phrase ''at least'' becasue I'm sick of explaining it to people who don't seem to be able to comprehend a very simple concept.

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Tell any Louth football person that.

I would If I knew any, unfortunately I don't!

People giving out about a referee before the game is played is weak and defeatist, I'm sure Mick Ryan isn't talking any such nonsense.

We can not control the referee, we can only control our performance and if we perform well enough no referee can change that, its a non-story tbh.

unrealtime

Brian Gavin is worth any 15 Tipp players. he is a man's ref for a man's game

Whiplash85

unrealtime wrote: »

Brian Gavin is worth any 15 Tipp players. he is a man's ref for a man's game

:rolleyes:

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

Brian Gavin is worth any 15 Tipp players. he is a man's ref for a man's game

Trolling is actually something that requires a bit of skill and intelligence, you might want to consider a new approach!!