Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Realt Dearg Sec

I thought Kilkenny fans were bad for craunchauling about refs after matches, but bitching about the ref BEFORE the match, that's taking it to a new level. Pathetic, some tipp fans are getting themselves READY to lose. Kk are really in some lads heads at this stage.

Rasputin11

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gif-umpire-chose-questionable-time-picture-eoin-murphy/138132

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I thought Kilkenny fans were bad for craunchauling about refs after matches, but bitching about the ref BEFORE the match, that's taking it to a new level. Pathetic, some tipp fans are getting themselves READY to lose. Kk are really in some lads heads at this stage.

I agree completely but come on be honest, if Barry Kelly had of been appointed it would have been the exact same from KK fans.

iebamm2580

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I thought Kilkenny fans were bad for craunchauling about refs after matches, but bitching about the ref BEFORE the match, that's taking it to a new level. Pathetic, some tipp fans are getting themselves READY to lose. Kk are really in some lads heads at this stage.

Just to enlighten you, on KCLR fm before the 2014 All Ireland i heard various kilkenny supporters on one night complaining that Barry Kelly got the match i suppose you dont remember that though.
Also i have to admit i love that unreal time is from kilkenny.

Realt Dearg Sec

danganabu wrote: »

I agree completely but come on be honest, if Barry Kelly had of been appointed it would have been the exact same from KK fans.

Probably. I just think this **** about the ref all the time on boards is completely ****ing tedious, lazy nonsense from people looking for excuses rather than facing the reality their team wasn't up to it. Every single game there's lads cribbing about a decision here and there against them and then saying "that's a two point swing right there". Which is much easier than looking at the hundreds of little mistakes all over the field in a game that could as easily swing a game. The refs are expected to be perfect, usually by folks who have never, and would never ref a game themselves.

danganabu

Spot on, and I have no qualms in admitting that I was as guilty as anyone in the aftermath of '09, but on reflection it wasn't the refs fault that we missed at least 5 goalscoring chances and that PJ Ryan had the best game of his life, reality was that it wasn't a penalty but it should not have mattered we should have been out of sight and had no one to blame only ourselves.

blackcard

danganabu wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I thought Kilkenny fans were bad for craunchauling about refs after matches, but bitching about the ref BEFORE the match, that's taking it to a new level. Pathetic, some tipp fans are getting themselves READY to lose. Kk are really in some lads heads at this stage.

I agree completely but come on be honest, if Barry Kelly had of been appointed it would have been the exact same from KK fans.

Barry Kelly is the Standby Referee and linesman. Incidentally, he did referee one Kilkenny match since 2014 and reffed it fairly. I would have no problem with him doing the AI. Apart from being codded for the final free in 2012, I thought he did okay. I think he would tell you himself that he had a dreadful match in 2013. Again, I thought he only made one bad decision in 2014. In 2008, I thought he favoured us even though we didn't need it. I can only remember Brian Gavin making one decision favouring KK, I remember more that he gave against us

citykat

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Maybe do a bit of research before you make such outlandish claims.
Gavin has reffed 4 of the last 6 AI's so maybe substitute Gavin with Kelly in your above statement and then you might make a bit of sense. The pertinent point here is that Kelly hasn't refereed any of Kilkennys last 10 championship games over a 2 year period. Before that he reffed on average 2 a year. Do you not think thats a bit strange? Do the maths. Even more interesting is the double standards. Marty asked in an interview after the 09 all Ireland were a couple of decisions very debatable and that Kilkenny benefited from a few of kirwans brainfarts that day. Cody was less than impressed to say the least. Now Kelly it seems cant get a game when KK are involved.

That's rich. You say Gavin reffed 4 of the last 6 AI. You're either being disingenuous or you haven't a clue. Then again it's more than likely both.

unrealtime

The ref is beyond doubt the only reason that this mighty Tipp team could be beaten.

unrealtime

The reason why Brian Gavin got 4 of the last 8 Finals is that he is head and shoulders above all the other refs. He is the fairest of all and the best to control a game.

His selection is to be welcomed.

Whiplash85

citykat wrote: »

That's rich. You say Gavin reffed 4 of the last 6 AI. You're either being disingenuous or you haven't a clue. Then again it's more than likely both.

2011 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2013 Cork V Clare Ref Brian Gavin
2014 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2016 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin

I don't think I can make that any clearer.

Incidentally it is a lot of officiating of All Ireland finals for one person.
He also has Tommy Walshs jersey over his mantlepiece.

Whiplash85

blackcard wrote: »

Barry Kelly is the Standby Referee and linesman. Incidentally, he did referee one Kilkenny match since 2014 and reffed it fairly. I would have no problem with him doing the AI. Apart from being codded for the final free in 2012, I thought he did okay. I think he would tell you himself that he had a dreadful match in 2013. Again, I thought he only made one bad decision in 2014. In 2008, I thought he favoured us even though we didn't need it. I can only remember Brian Gavin making one decision favouring KK, I remember more that he gave against us

Can you tell me which championship game Barry Kelly reffed Kilkenny in since 2014 please?

Philip82

Please let someone start a thread about referees only, preferbly Barry Kelly vs Brian Gavin and keep the whinging there. There is no such thing as a perfect referee in any sport or era through a fans eyes, accept it and get on with it.

Martin567

Whiplash85 wrote: »

2011 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2013 Cork V Clare Ref Brian Gavin
2014 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2016 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin

I don't think I can make that any clearer.

In fairness, you are being disingenuous there. You neglected to mention that there were replays in 2012, 2013 & 2014. That's three extra All Irelands.

So this will be Brian Gavin's 4th out of the last 9 All Irelands. It's still a lot but not quite 4 out of the last 6, as you claimed.

Realt Dearg Sec

There seems to be a direct link between times whiplash is posting on here, and times actual match or team discussion goes right out the window. Maybe that's a coincidence. I dunno.

citykat

You could probably call this the silly season in terms of the All Ireland. Some lads are happy to fill the gap with any old ****e.

Cornerback1

Can we give a red card to anyone, from now on, who mentions 'the referee' before the game???

dastardly00

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Can we give a red card to anyone, from now on, who mentions 'the referee' before the game???

I agree!

Michael Kavanagh

Whiplash85 wrote: »

2011 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2013 Cork V Clare Ref Brian Gavin
2014 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin
2016 Tipp V Kilkenny Ref Brian Gavin

I don't think I can make that any clearer.

Incidentally it is a lot of officiating of All Ireland finals for one person.
He also has Tommy Walshs jersey over his mantlepiece.

were you looking in his window

dubcat51

All great open games let flow by the ref.wheres the problem.

JJs Left Hand

Never really get the issue Tipp had with the Tommy/Gavin incident. It was a bit of pushing and shoving and nothing happened to a Tipperary player. There was no foul play against them at all. It had absolutely no bearing on the game bar the ref got clipped.

If Kelly or McGrath were reffing it I'd go oh ffs and then move on. I hate this booing ****e Kilkenny fans have started.

No opinion on Gavin either way but if his mere appointment rattles Tipp this much then I'm all for him reffing the game. If the players let themselves get affected by it as much as their fans then they're as mentally weak as everyone thinks they are. Personally don't think it will affect them but the fans are already going in thinking they're going to get ****ed over which is going to create a lovely hostile atmosphere. Can't ****ing wait.

Deise Vu

Considering that every single match throws up at least half a dozen decisions by the referee which were blatantly stupid, blind or corrupt in the minds of some people I once started a thread on the late, lamented Fear Rua site on the lines of "list one occasion where the ref rode the opposition".
My point obviously was that if refs were that bad there must be loads of games where they were bad in your favour. I think one poster made one suggestion and the rest admitted it was kinda hard to see bias in your favour but no problem to see possible discrimination.

Just saying like......

Realt Dearg Sec

Deise Vu wrote: »

Considering that every single match throws up at least half a dozen decisions by the referee which were blatantly stupid, blind or corrupt in the minds of some people I once started a thread on the late, lamented Fear Rua site on the lines of "list one occasion where the ref rode the opposition".
My point obviously was that if refs were that bad there must be loads of games where they were bad in your favour. I think one poster made one suggestion and the rest admitted it was kinda hard to see bias in your favour but no problem to see possible discrimination.

Just saying like......

That's pretty much exactly it.

citykat

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I hate this booing ****e Kilkenny fans have started.

+1. It's wrong on many levels. Sounds bad. Petty.

Realt Dearg Sec

citykat wrote: »

+1. It's wrong on many levels. Sounds bad. Petty.

I agree. And it's nearly every match now.

unrealtime

Booing is antediluvian. The suggestion that KK fans started it is incorrect. I have heard booing for one thing or another for over 50 years.

Realt Dearg Sec

unrealtime wrote: »

Booing is antediluvian. The suggestion that KK fans started it is incorrect. I have heard booing for one thing or another for over 50 years.

I don't remember anyone saying Kilkenny invented booing?

blackcard

Whiplash85 wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

Barry Kelly is the Standby Referee and linesman. Incidentally, he did referee one Kilkenny match since 2014 and reffed it fairly. I would have no problem with him doing the AI. Apart from being codded for the final free in 2012, I thought he did okay. I think he would tell you himself that he had a dreadful match in 2013. Again, I thought he only made one bad decision in 2014. In 2008, I thought he favoured us even though we didn't need it. I can only remember Brian Gavin making one decision favouring KK, I remember more that he gave against us

Can you tell me which championship game Barry Kelly reffed Kilkenny in since 2014 please?

It was a league match, can't remember which one

brookville

blackcard wrote: »

It was a league match, can't remember which one

It was against galway at home

blackcard

So, any opinions on what the team should be. Joyce definitely back at centre back, Fogarty to midfield. Lester Ryan or TJ Reid in midfield. I would go with TJ leaving the forwards as Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan, Eoin Larkin, JonJo Farrell, Colin Fennelly and Liam Blanchfield. Anyone with a different opinion?

Realt Dearg Sec

blackcard wrote: »

So, any opinions on what the team should be. Joyce definitely back at centre back, Fogarty to midfield. Lester Ryan or TJ Reid in midfield. I would go with TJ leaving the forwards as Walter Walsh, Richie Hogan, Eoin Larkin, JonJo Farrell, Colin Fennelly and Liam Blanchfield. Anyone with a different opinion?

Largely agree with that, Reid in the middle if the field was beneficial the last day. I would probably start Lester Ryan as well, at wing forward, and let he and Reid alternate midfield as the game develops. Dunno if they'll take that approach but it gives you some flexibility regarding how to deploy tj. Blanch to give way, coming in as a sub. There's not much tweaking to be done from what I can see, although maybe we'll see another surprise sprung as often happens on all Ireland weekends.

dubcat51

Can see blanch starting and his confidence right up(just like ger awlyard last year)also see walter tj and larks on the 45.colin blanch jj in the full.richie and fogarty midfield with richie swapping on and off with tj.joyce back in with the other 5 backs.think john walsh will make the bench.

unrealtime

agree with that team - with TJ at midfield and Joyce at CB. With the ref on our side also we should be hard to beat.

dastardly00

unrealtime wrote: »

With the ref on our side also we should be hard to beat.

Ah would you give it a rest with all the referee BS.

minty81

I think 2 main options.

Fogarty & Lester
Wally Richie Tj
Blanchfield Colin F Larkin

Or

Fogarty & Tj
Wally Richie Larkin
Farrell Colin Blanchfield

I'd be very surprised if Richie doesn't start centre forward

danganabu

dastardly00 wrote: »

Ah would you give it a rest with all the referee BS.

FYP

Cornerback1

I'd like to see Blanchfield starting from the point of view that he'll have a serious height advantage over whoever marks him and it'll put the pressure on the Tipperary full back line straight away.

kk.man

minty81 wrote: »

I think 2 main options.

Fogarty & Lester
Wally Richie Tj
Blanchfield Colin F Larkin

Or

Fogarty & Tj
Wally Richie Larkin
Farrell Colin Blanchfield

I'd be very surprised if Richie doesn't start centre forward

I think Fogarty will remain CB

Lester TJ
Wally Richie Power
Colin Blanch Larkin

dastardly00

My choice would be Joyce at centre-back and Fogarty at midfield.

danganabu

dastardly00 wrote: »

My choice would be Joyce at centre-back and Fogarty at midfield.

I'd be amazed it that's not what happens. I have always had the feeling that Cody has never really fully trusted Lester Ryan and would be surprised to see him start. Joyce had one bad day against a guy, while terribly inconsistent and petulant, who when on fire is unmarkable. Bonner Maher is decent in the air but not in Gleesons league, it will be a totally different challenge.

tbiggertycome

Personally I would like to see us line out as follows
Scruffy
Murphy, Joey, Prender
Walsh, Joyce, Buck
Fogarty, Richie
Wally, TJ, Power/Lester (which ever is going better in training I'd prefer to start Lester and bring on Power)
Blanch, Colin, Larks

I could see Richie and TJ changing like Richie and Fennelly did too T. De Burca in the semi replay and they'd cause R Maher untold trouble. If you look at Tipps players in the middle third where they expect their going to come and hit us hard it includes 4 lads who haven't played in an AI before and two are in their first season thats a lot of inexperience in that vital middle third.
Tipps middle third players- this match would be there (?th)AI apperance (including the drawn match)
Seamus Kennedy(1st), Ronan Maher(1st), Padraig Maher(6th)
Brendan Maher(6th-1 as sub), Michael Breen (1st)
Dan McCormick (1st), Bonner(5th), Noel McGrath(6th)

Compare that to our middle third players as named above
Walsh(4th- 1 as sub), Joyce(5th), Buck(5th)
Fogarty(4th), Richie(8th- 1 as sub)
Wally(4th), TJ(10th- 3 as sub), Power(4th- 2 as sub)
The as sub means they took the field, I didn't count games or years where they stayed on the bench lots of our lads only made the team in '12 or '14 but still have had the experience of being there on the pitch on at least 4 occassions.

I would say with 4 AI debutants in that middle third, at least 1 of them is in for a tough day, 1 will probably excel and the other two could go either way.

The likely match ups
Murphy v John McGrath- I would be happy Murphy will keep him fairly quite we won't ever stop him scoring we just need to keep him out of the net
Joey v Callanan- Joey should be really confident after the semi's, again keep him out of the net and let Murphy sweep up the loose ball
Prender v Bubbles- strangely enough I'm happy at the thought of Prender on Bubbles, Prender won't dominate him but he'll go about his business quietly

Padraig v Noel McGrath- I'd be happy if Padraig stops him spraying it around and wins all in the air
Joyce v Bonner- I think Joyce has the winning of this one
Buck v Dan McCormick- Buck should get well on top here with any luck, McCormick might win the odd high ball but after that it should all be Buckley

Conor and Richie v Brendan Maher and Michael Breen- Ideally I'd like to see Conor on Brendan and Richie ghosting away from Breen giving him something to concentrate on and curtail his forward drives and if it doesn't Richie will run amok

Wally v Padraig Maher- I think Wally can keep him quite and cause trouble I think it's important to stop Maher making catches that inspire Tipp.
TJ v Ronan Maher- if TJ can do what the Waterford U21's did to Ronan Maher we'd practically have the game won.
John Power v Seamus Kennedy- I'd be happy with a break even here.

Blanchield v Micky Cahill- High ball in here and Blanch would cause lots of trouble.
Colin v Barry- I think Colin could run riot in here if we play smart we can give him loads of joy in there.
Larkin v Cathal Barrett- Larkin probably won't spend long in here but when he is high ball over Barrett is the name of the game.

I'd love to see Larkin and Blanch camp out in their respective corners for the first 15 mins and we send low diagonal ball into Colin this would cause loads of trouble for Barry. If their men don't want to stay out there with them let the ball into Blanch & Larks and tip it over the bar running back out.

All of this is based on us playing at least too the level we played against Waterford the second day if not higher and even at that it'll be very close I reckon. There's never much between us but if we can keep them to less than two goals I reckon we'll have it in the end.

blackcard

I see if the all stars were picked now, the bookies have Tipp favourite for 8 positions with 4 for KK, Eoin Murphy Paul Murphy Tj Reid and Richie Hogan. Tipps eight are James Barry, Cathal Barrett, Pauric Maher, Michael Breen, John O'Dwyer, Noel McGrath, John McGrath and Seamus Callinan. The remaining three are Austin Gleeson, Daithi Burke and David Burke. Tbh, I don't care if they give all 15 to Tipp as long as we win.

dastardly00

blackcard wrote: »

I see if the all stars were picked now, the bookies have Tipp favourite for 8 positions with 4 for KK, Eoin Murphy Paul Murphy Tj Reid and Richie Hogan. Tipps eight are James Barry, Cathal Barrett, Pauric Maher, Michael Breen, John O'Dwyer, Noel McGrath, John McGrath and Seamus Callinan. The remaining three are Austin Gleeson, Daithi Burke and David Burke. Tbh, I don't care if they give all 15 to Tipp as long as we win.

I'd be of the same opinion that I won't be upset about the All-Stars as long as we win.

I think the four picked by the bookies are all sure enough to get an All-Star. Cillian Buckley is probably the best of the rest of the KK players not mentioned in the above list.

Cornerback1

dastardly00 wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

I see if the all stars were picked now, the bookies have Tipp favourite for 8 positions with 4 for KK, Eoin Murphy Paul Murphy Tj Reid and Richie Hogan. Tipps eight are James Barry, Cathal Barrett, Pauric Maher, Michael Breen, John O'Dwyer, Noel McGrath, John McGrath and Seamus Callinan. The remaining three are Austin Gleeson, Daithi Burke and David Burke. Tbh, I don't care if they give all 15 to Tipp as long as we win.

I'd be of the same opinion that I won't be upset about the All-Stars as long as we win.

I think the four picked by the bookies are all sure enough to get an All-Star. Cillian Buckley is probably the best of the rest of the KK players not mentioned in the above list.

The All Stars are an added bonus for the players - individual awards are all well and good.

Whoever wins the final will probably get 6 or 7, the runners up will get 4 or 5 and the others shared out amongst the semi-finalists.

dubcat51

Would have barron from waterford in myself and wally.think walter was our stand out player in the league and his performace against galway and waterford in the championship rould get my vote.

Arcade_Tryer

If Colin Fennelly delivers in the final he should be nailed on for an all star.

Buckley should be in the running too.

Stripeymen

First time post long time reader..
I love your prediction on the possible line ups. If kilkenny are at their peak which I think they will be after the two amazing battles with waterford minus fennelly I give us every chance. But Tipp will not want to lose this game it's probably unimaginable for them could they bear they media and personal slaggibg that would come their way after making such a song and dance that they would have bet us last year. Have Tipp been really tested ?? They destroyed waterford in the MF but WAT still had the back door they bet Galway without canning for the 2nd half and they fell over the line . It's going to be a belter but I just feel that tipp are putting themselves in very vunrable position of having to win. KK have nothing to lose they owe us nothing. Mon the Cats !!

tbiggertycome

Stripeymen wrote: »

First time post long time reader..
I love your prediction on the possible line ups. If kilkenny are at their peak which I think they will be after the two amazing battles with waterford minus fennelly I give us every chance. But Tipp will not want to lose this game it's probably unimaginable for them could they bear they media and personal slaggibg that would come their way after making such a song and dance that they would have bet us last year. Have Tipp been really tested ?? They destroyed waterford in the MF but WAT still had the back door they bet Galway without canning for the 2nd half and they fell over the line . It's going to be a belter but I just feel that tipp are putting themselves in very vunrable position of having to win. KK have nothing to lose they owe us nothing. Mon the Cats !!

Welcome and fair dues for getting involved in the discussion.

I would agree Tipp have had very little testing but they can only beat whats in front of them at the same time and while Waterford fell apart in the Munster final I think a lot of the credit there has to go to Tipperary in the first place for ripping them apart particularly at the start of the second half, the last 20-25mins of the game was not a contest, Waterford had given up at that stage. So yes not a lot can be read into the result but a bit can be read into the first 45 mins and Tipp out fought Waterford for most of that. I do think however that Waterford went back and refocused and obviously changed tactics for the semi and were a different animal to what Tipp beat.

I would agree Canning and Touhy could easily have swung that game for Galway or even leaving Coen in midfield would have helped a lot. Galway put it up to Tipp physically and most of them were able for it a few struggled but I would say Galway were also a notch or two better than what we faced in the Leinster final.

As most on here have said there won't be much between them but hopefully two very intense games will have brought us up another level again. If we sharpen up our first touch, bring the same intensity and our shot/pass selection is a bit better we should get past them.

The one thing Tipp think is different this year is there ability to win a close contest. If you look at all our games League and Championship since 09 they either wallop us but if it's close 3-4 points with ten to go we invariably come out on top. I believe the same will apply again because grinding out a win against Limerick and Galway is completely different to grinding out a win against Kilkenny, just ask Waterford.

The only part of your post I don't get is the

Stripeymen wrote: »

after making such a song and dance that they would have bet us last year.

Was this fans or the team? I don't remember hearing or reading anything like that. I'm not having a go I just must have missed it.

Stripeymen

It was one of the first things Michael lester said last week after tipp bet Galway last wk on the Sunday game. Plus I have been talking to alot of tipp guys lately and that's what they believe. That makes next Sunday all the more interesting as Cyril farrell said "I don't know what tipp will do if they don't win "

Motivator

dubcat51 wrote: »

No chance of being roasted playing on bonner maher.joyce has always had his number.

That's a statement that is going to come back & haunt you.