Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Brian Gavins whistle

I think Cody should start Jackie Tyrrell full forward, and reign balls in on his head, target the full back line, which is a bit suspect.

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

As Paddy Grace said we have no hope against this mighty Tipp team but we'll turn up to puck out the ball to them anyway. Tipp fans need not despair; game will be over in 15 minutes 😪

Talking from the grave is Paddy??

tbiggertycome

In fairness I've heard Jackie is hurling well in training but as the man himself said to me a few years ago. "If you ever see me taking a shot for a score you know we're fu***d".

I'm delighted if he is going well as he's putting pressure on the lads in there to up they're game. Would be a massive call to start him at this stage and the only place I think you'll see him would be at 4. Prendergast has done nothing wrong and will he disturb our best line so far this year? Although if you had a choice between a Jackie of 11 or 12 versus Prendergast who would you pick? I'd have Jackie but is he going that well? Do you drop your captain? All big calls

adrian522

I think 1-8 is pretty obvious. Only call really is who to play in mid field alongside Fogarty and who to pick in the forwards.

dubcat51

Anyone think bolger john walsh or even awlyard might make the matchday 26.also if we pull this one off it would be great to introduce the 3 mentioned above plus a few more like jason cleere tommy walsh rob lennon etc during the league next year.we could go from functional to good maybe��

kk1970

dubcat51 wrote: »

Anyone think bolger john walsh or even awlyard might make the matchday 26.also if we pull this one off it would be great to introduce the 3 mentioned above plus a few more like jason cleere tommy walsh rob lennon etc during the league next year.we could go from functional to good maybe��

No...

brookville

dubcat51 wrote: »

Anyone think bolger john walsh or even awlyard might make the matchday 26.also if we pull this one off it would be great to introduce the 3 mentioned above plus a few more like jason cleere tommy walsh rob lennon etc during the league next year.we could go from functional to good maybe��

I agree the likes of bolger,john walsh,conor delaney etc are good prospects and will probaly see league action next year plus awlyard and maher should be back from injury.kevin kelly should be that bit stronger.I'd expect diarmuid coady to take michael fennellys spot on the panel.Ger is gone for the year unfortunately and it doesn't look like maher will make it back.

Cornerback1

From Kilkenny's point of view, I think part of the 'Tipperary will win' is on the law of averages. It's like Kilkenny have beaten Tipp in a lot of big games and finals recently that the mind is like, sure they have to win sometime. The law of averages and all that.

I give the KK a great chance of winning. Loads of experience on the big day and proven players on the big stage.

mountgomery burns

dubcat51 wrote: »

Anyone think bolger john walsh or even awlyard might make the matchday 26.also if we pull this one off it would be great to introduce the 3 mentioned above plus a few more like jason cleere tommy walsh rob lennon etc during the league next year.we could go from functional to good maybe��

Lad Aylward did his cruciate in February, you won't see him again till the middle of the league next year.

tbiggertycome

Although Aylward and Maher are back in training with the lads I'd be amazed to see them named on the bench. I did see Ger on the town last week and he looked in fine shape but too early for them I'd say. John Walsh is not in the extended panel this year hopefully next year. Bolger is on the extended training panel but I don't think he's playing all the training matches so he's going to struggle to make the bench too.

adrian522

Anyone read James Woodlock going on about the referee in the Examiner?

The sort of stuff you'd expect from keyboard warriors here on boards or over on premier view, not what I'd expect from him to be honest. I'd wonder is that view shared with players still on the panel?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ex-tipperary-star-james-woodlock-wants-fairness-from-brian-gavin-418636.html

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

Anyone read James Woodlock going on about the referee in the Examiner?

The sort of stuff you'd expect from keyboard warriors here on boards or over on premier view, not what I'd expect from him to be honest. I'd wonder is that view shared with players still on the panel?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ex-tipperary-star-james-woodlock-wants-fairness-from-brian-gavin-418636.html

It's ill advised drivel but Woodlock is just an normal Tipp fan, has no involvement what soever with the current set-up so obviously his views are in no way a reflection of the current players.

In the same way that Eddie Keher and Noel Skehan and I think was it Wille O'Connor all spouted drivel in the wake of the 2014 drawn match, being an ex-player does not suddenly empower one with intelligence or tact.

dastardly00

adrian522 wrote: »

Anyone read James Woodlock going on about the referee in the Examiner?

The sort of stuff you'd expect from keyboard warriors here on boards or over on premier view, not what I'd expect from him to be honest. I'd wonder is that view shared with players still on the panel?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ex-tipperary-star-james-woodlock-wants-fairness-from-brian-gavin-418636.html

He doesn't really give definitive reasons for Tipp fans being 'apprehensive' about Gavin does he?

The fact that Barry Kelly hasn't reffed a KK championship match in the last couple of years is a valid point.

The argument regarding Munster referees has nothing got to KK and is a different story altogether.

Overall I think the Examiner have heavily edited the interview and sensationalised it.

I also agree with Danganabu's post.
Eddie Keher has come out with some amount of horse manure over the years.

adrian522

To my mind it is completely irrelevant what province a ref is from. Seems like there is apprehension when none is needed?

Not sure why they would be looking for excuses before the ball is thrown in.

Can't think of too many Munster refs who would be in the running to be honest. Wadding, bad ref, not sure if he is even still around. Sexton, again not sure if he is still knocking about, who else?

dastardly00

It's much more worthwhile reading Richie Power's comments that were published in this article today.

He's pushed his body way past it's limits in order to win AI titles, and he'll be suffering for the rest of his life because of it.

"Having three operations in 10 months, the deterioration in the knee was a lot worse than the specialist was expecting. I was under the influence, as was the surgeon, that he’d get me back hurling going into the operation last October.

“Unfortunately, after he came out of the knee, that wasn’t the case. What happened between July and October was a lot more severe than we all thought.”

“A knee is not something you can build up. It’s not a muscle. You can’t really do much bar build up around it. From a very young age I was prone to knee problems. First operation was when I was 16. That’s when it all started for me. I got 14 years out of it.

“If I can get back with the club, that will be something. It would be nice to give something back after missing so many years after being involved with Kilkenny. Time will tell on that front.”

The 30-year-old is aware he faces knee replacement surgery 10 or 15 years down the line. In day-to-day life the knee gives him pain some mornings and especially during the winter months. That’s part of the deal when you have ”two bones grinding off each other,” as he describes it.

Power is asked if he would trade an All-Ireland medal or two for a fully-functioning knee.

“Of course I would – you’d give it back.”

But then, even with eight Celtic Crosses in his medal cabinet at home, he backtracks somewhat.

“It’s a high price to pay from that point of view but I suppose then you’re playing at the highest level. You’re going to get these knocks and bruises and bumps.

“Would I like to have a fully functioning knee? Absolutely. Would I change my career? I don’t think so. The success that we had. I suppose it’s a price I kind of have to pay on a personal level."

kk.man

I would not like to have Barry Kelly under any circumstances however the 'best' ref I ever saw was Dickie Murphy of Wexford he had it all, let game flow and when he did blow the whistle took the heat of his decisions by communicating effetely with the players thus they were less aggravated and that followed through to the fans.

danganabu

Unfortunately what Power is/was going through will become the norm for many many players with the strains being put on players bodies in the modern game, as he says himself a high price to pay.

But really he shouldn't have gone for the operation drunk, and certainly shouldnt have let the surgeon perform it after a drink

granturismo

adrian522 wrote: »

To my mind it is completely irrelevant what province a ref is from. Seems like there is apprehension when none is needed?

Not sure why they would be looking for excuses before the ball is thrown in.

Can't think of too many Munster refs who would be in the running to be honest. Wadding, bad ref, not sure if he is even still around. Sexton, again not sure if he is still knocking about, who else?

True. There is a limited pool, this article lists 9, two of which are from Tipperary, one from Cork and one from Waterford.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-refs-cartel-bad-for-hurling-34971725.html

dastardly00

adrian522 wrote: »

Can't think of too many Munster refs who would be in the running to be honest. Wadding, bad ref, not sure if he is even still around. Sexton, again not sure if he is still knocking about, who else?

There aren't too many referees in the running for the big games.

And it's been fairly obvious over the past few years who they are.
Basically it's Brian Gavin, James Owens, James McGrath and Barry Kelly.

Wadding and Sexton are gone. Here's a list of the "Munster" referees who have taken charge in matches in the 2016 championship:

Fergal Horgan (Tipperary): Leinster Final KK-Galway; Leinster Quarter-Final Dublin-Wexford.
Diarmuid Kirwan (Cork): Leinster Quarter-Final Westmeath-Galway.
Colm Lyons (Cork): Leinster Semi-Final Offaly-Galway; Leinster Qualifier Group Round 1 Kerry-Carlow.
Johnny Ryan (Tipperary): AI Qualifier Round 1 Wexford-Offaly; Leinster Quarter-Final Offaly-Laois.

I posted this before, but here is a list of who has reffed the AI semi-finals and finals over the last few years.

Year | Final | Semi-Final (Leinster Winner) | Semi-Final (Munster Winner)
2016 | B Gavin | J Owens / J McGrath (Replay) | B Kelly
2015 | J Owens | B Gavin | B Kelly
2014 | B Kelly / B Gavin (Replay) | J McGrath | J Owens
2013 | B Gavin / J McGrath (Replay) | J Owens | J Ryan
2012 | B Kelly / J McGrath (Replay) | B Gavin | C McAllister
2011 | B Gavin | B Kelly | C McAllister
2010 | M Wadding | B Gavin | J Sexton

adrian522

granturismo wrote: »

True. There is a limited pool, this article lists 9, two of which are from Tipperary, one from Cork and one from Waterford.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-refs-cartel-bad-for-hurling-34971725.html

If Breheny had his way there'd be a free every 30 seconds.

danganabu

granturismo wrote: »

There is a limited pool

That's the real problem, seems to be very hard to break into that top level and all the big games have been shared between a very small select 4 or 5 referees.

Maybe the standard isn't good enough outside those but that seems unlikley and if that is the case then serious resources need to be invested, to try and avoid the inevitble in a couple of years when we are left in a position of having no referees with big match experience. Barry Kelly is 46 and Brian Gavin is 39 and not exactly the fittest.

Cornerback1

I think there is too much emphasis on the final referee lads - see what happens in the game first.

danganabu

Cornerback1 wrote: »

I think there is too much emphasis on the final referee lads - see what happens in the game first.

Absolutely and its putting unwarranted pressure on Gavin. There is an issue about referees in hurling in particular but it has fcuk all to do with Sunday's match.

Whiplash85

adrian522 wrote: »

Anyone read James Woodlock going on about the referee in the Examiner?

The sort of stuff you'd expect from keyboard warriors here on boards or over on premier view, not what I'd expect from him to be honest. I'd wonder is that view shared with players still on the panel?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ex-tipperary-star-james-woodlock-wants-fairness-from-brian-gavin-418636.html

Its shared by everyone in Tipp. Incredible double standards by KK folk on the subject of referees. Barry Kelly as previously stated was eviscerated by Eddie Brennan on Sunday game. Cody called some of his decisions criminal. At least be consistent. I know one or 2 of the players personally and trust me they are worried about his appointment.

pmy.murphy

I dont think the referee will win or lose the game Sunday to be perfectly honestly. Gavin likes to let the game flow which is how the game should be played

danganabu

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Its shared by everyone in Tipp. Incredible double standards by KK folk on the subject of referees. Barry Kelly as previously stated was eviscerated by Eddie Brennan on Sunday game. Cody called some of his decisions criminal. At least be consistent. I know one or 2 of the players personally and trust me they are worried about his appointment.

Speak for yourself!

I think its the greatest load of nonsense ever and most genuine and knowledgeable hurling people in the county I have spoken to have agreed, I would be saying the same thing if Barry Kelly had been appointed. It's the biggest non-story ever tbh. Complaining over what a ref 'might do' :rolleyes:

dastardly00

Yeah... It's not Olympic boxing... The refs aren't paid off! :pac:

adrian522

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I dont think the referee will win or lose the game Sunday to be perfectly honestly. Gavin likes to let the game flow which is how the game should be played

Completely agree with this! He's as good a ref as is out there to be honest.

Whiplash85

danganabu wrote: »

Speak for yourself!

I think its the greatest load of nonsense ever and most genuine and knowledgeable hurling people in the county I have spoken to have agreed, I would be saying the same thing if Barry Kelly had been appointed. It's the biggest non-story ever tbh. Complaining over what a ref 'might do' :rolleyes:

So James Woodlock isn't a knowledgeable hurling person in the county no?
Or the people of Drom & Inch that he would be talking to wouldn't really be knowledgeable either no? Or maybe the 2 lads on the panel that I played underage with. Give me a break. Keep drinking the koolaid there like a good boy. There is a whole body of work that indicates what a ref might do. Maybe you still listen to games on the wireless.

danganabu

Whiplash85 wrote: »

So James Woodlock isn't a knowledgeable hurling person in the county no?
Or the people of Drom & Inch that he would be talking to wouldn't really be knowledgeable either no? Or maybe the 2 lads on the panel that I played underage with.

Who said that? Try reading what I actually said please, just to point you in the right direction, I have not spoken to James or anyone in Drom for that matter and I have no idea who you played go games with. The fact that I haven't spoken to them does not mean they are not knowledgeable but that particular article from Woodlock, if the quotes are accurate would certainly suggest he is not.

I am always amused at the assumption that because someone was a good player they are qualified to offer insight into said sport, have you ever heard or read the ramblings of your average professional footballer?

Realt Dearg Sec

Whiplash85 wrote: »

So James Woodlock isn't a knowledgeable hurling person in the county no?
Or the people of Drom & Inch that he would be talking to wouldn't really be knowledgeable either no? Or maybe the 2 lads on the panel that I played underage with. Give me a break. Keep drinking the koolaid there like a good boy. There is a whole body of work that indicates what a ref might do. Maybe you still listen to games on the wireless.

You said that this opinion is shared by EVERYONE in Tipp, he was simply pointing out that not everyone in Tipp shares that opinion. Some of them are more concerned with how Tipp will play, how they might go about winning, etc. You seem to be the only one on here who posts exclusively about the ref. You would swear he was the only one playing Sunday.

I would love if everyone in Tipp (especially the players) was obsessed with the ref the way you are, it's such a pathetic, loser mentality, setting yourself up to have excuses for failure, getting ready to lose and knowing exactly how you are going to go about bitching about it while the opposition celebrate with the cup. Sadly I doubt they are.

Whiplash85

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

You said that this opinion is shared by EVERYONE in Tipp, he was simply pointing out that not everyone in Tipp shares that opinion. Some of them are more concerned with how Tipp will play, how they might go about winning, etc. You seem to be the only one on here who posts exclusively about the ref. You would swear he was the only one playing Sunday.

I would love if everyone in Tipp (especially the players) was obsessed with the ref the way you are, it's such a pathetic, loser mentality, setting yourself up to have excuses for failure, getting ready to lose and knowing exactly how you are going to go about bitching about it while the opposition celebrate with the cup. Sadly I doubt they are.

Well if it is such a pathetic loser mentality why was Barry Kelly accused of criminal like decisions by Brian Cody? Eddie Brennan had a graph on the sunday game highlighting Kilkennys record when Barry Kelly has officiated a KK game. Why did a large cohort of Kilkenny people lampoon the referee AFTER beating Waterford. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander lads. Do try and be consistent and stop spouting $hite. The hypocrisy on here is incredible.

Whiplash85

danganabu wrote: »

Who said that? Try reading what I actually said please, just to point you in the right direction, I have not spoken to James or anyone in Drom for that matter and I have no idea who you played go games with. The fact that I haven't spoken to them does not mean they are not knowledgeable but that particular article from Woodlock, if the quotes are accurate would certainly suggest he is not.

I am always amused at the assumption that because someone was a good player they are qualified to offer insight into said sport, have you ever heard or read the ramblings of your average professional footballer?

I think you suffer from Stockholm syndrome pal therefore your views cannot be taken seriously.

Realt Dearg Sec

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Well if it is such a pathetic loser mentality why was Barry Kelly accused of criminal like decisions by Brian Cody? Eddie Brennan had a graph on the sunday game highlighting Kilkennys record when Barry Kelly has officiated a KK game. Why did a large cohort of Kilkenny people lampoon the referee AFTER beating Waterford. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander lads. Do try and be consistent and stop spouting $hite. The hypocrisy on here is incredible.

I love the way criticising a referee AFTER a game is what you have a problem with. You, on the other hand, have decided already that if ye lose, it will have been the referees fault. If you can't see how that isn't a loser mentality, I despair. Enjoy your week of constant anger over literally nothing at all. I won't be talking to you again, as I'm sure you'll be devastated to hear.

unrealtime

Gavin hates Tipp thank God 'cos everyone else does.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Whiplash85, who would the Tipp players like to ref the match?

gobo99

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Whiplash85, who would the Tipp players like to ref the match?

Michael Ryan

minty81

The tipp lads must be forgetting the penalty that Gavin incorrectly awarded them in the 14 replay.
Did ye expect him to stick it in the net for ye as well?!

Whiplash85

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Whiplash85, who would the Tipp players like to ref the match?

James McGrath, Barry Kelly, James Owens, Alan Kelly, Cathal McAlister, Colm Lyons.

Anyone bar Gavin.

There has been a monopoly of Leinster refs refereeing All Irelands. Pat O Connor (who forms part of munster referee committee) alluded to this very fact. All we want is fair play and to let our hurling do the talking.

Anyway enough said on the matter.
Revert back to match talk and who will be marking who and where the game might be won or lost.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

So you're dressing it up as a Munster vs Leinster thing now, I thought your concern was based upon what adorns a certain referee's mantle piece?

Cornerback1

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Whiplash85, who would the Tipp players like to ref the match?

James McGrath, Barry Kelly, James Owens, Alan Kelly, Cathal McAlister, Colm Lyons.

Anyone bar Gavin.

There has been a monopoly of Leinster refs refereeing All Irelands. Pat O Connor (who forms part of munster referee committee) alluded to this very fact. All we want is fair play and to let our hurling do the talking.

Anyway enough said on the matter.
Revert back to match talk and who will be marking who and where the game might be won or lost.

The last sentence.....Where the game might be won and lost....the referee's fault of course!!

blackcard

Very quiet build up to the match, normally you would hear rumours of injuries, surprise starters etc. Last year, the build up started in Kilkenny around Friday and the celebrations were over by Monday. I think we are a victim of our own success, a lot of younger people don't realise how hard won an All Ireland is, particularly an All ireland against Tipp. Fair play to Cody and the players for maintaining their hunger despite all the success

kk.man

blackcard wrote: »

Very quiet build up to the match, normally you would hear rumours of injuries, surprise starters etc. Last year, the build up started in Kilkenny around Friday and the celebrations were over by Monday. I think we are a victim of our own success, a lot of younger people don't realise how hard won an All Ireland is, particularly an All ireland against Tipp. Fair play to Cody and the players for maintaining their hunger despite all the success

Concur 100 %

Michael Kavanagh

Whiplash85 wrote: »

James McGrath, Barry Kelly, James Owens, Alan Kelly, Cathal McAlister, Colm Lyons.

Anyone bar Gavin.

There has been a monopoly of Leinster refs refereeing All Irelands. Pat O Connor (who forms part of munster referee committee) alluded to this very fact. All we want is fair play and to let our hurling do the talking.

Anyway enough said on the matter.
Revert back to match talk and who will be marking who and where the game might be won or lost.

Did Michael Rice get much protection from a munster referee all Ireland semifinal 2012 I don't think so

allthedoyles

Wonder will KK start with the players dropped for semi.

I have doubt Joyce will be definate starter

brookville

allthedoyles wrote: »

Wonder will KK start with the players dropped for semi.

I have doubt Joyce will be definate starter

unlikely jackie will start although someone like rob lennon could who knows

Cornerback1

brookville wrote: »

allthedoyles wrote: »

Wonder will KK start with the players dropped for semi.

I have doubt Joyce will be definate starter

unlikely jackie will start although someone like rob lennon could who knows

Although Lennon played in the corner V Galway, i'd have thought he'd be a more 'central' type of player.

I suppose the key issues from a Kilkenny point of view are;

1. Who will start at No. 6?
2. Who will play midfield with I presume, Conor Fogarty? - Lester or will TJ start there?
3. Will Liam Blanchfield start?
4. Who will play in the forwards? - JJ, Bergin or JP??
5. Any other suggestions?

danganabu

Whiplash85 wrote: »

James McGrath, Barry Kelly, James Owens, Alan Kelly, Cathal McAlister, Colm Lyons.

Anyone bar Gavin.

There has been a monopoly of Leinster refs refereeing All Irelands.

That post just about sums up your knowledge of the matter all right.

Westmeath, Wexford and Galway are not in Munster FWIW.

Cathal McAlister is an absolute shambles of a ref and in the last 4 games involving Tipp teams he has remarkably sent off 5 Tipp players!

Colm Lyons has no where near enough experience to be refereeing an AI.

adrian522

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Although Lennon played in the corner V Galway, i'd have thought he'd be a more 'central' type of player.

I suppose the key issues from a Kilkenny point of view are;

1. Who will start at No. 6?
2. Who will play midfield with I presume, Conor Fogarty? - Lester or will TJ start there?
3. Will Liam Blanchfield start?
4. Who will play in the forwards? - JJ, Bergin or JP??
5. Any other suggestions?

At a guess, Joyce/TJ/Yes/JJ

but there will be switches throughout the game but I can see TJ starting out there again.

Martin567

danganabu wrote: »

That post just about sums up your knowledge of the matter all right.

Westmeath, Wexford and Galway are not in Munster FWIW.

Cathal McAlister is an absolute shambles of a ref and in the last 4 games involving Tipp teams he has remarkably sent off 5 Tipp players!

Colm Lyons has no where near enough experience to be refereeing an AI.

I agree with your view of Cathal McAllister as a ref. He surely killed any hope he ever had of refereeing semi-finals and finals with his performance in the 2012 semi final.

I wasn't aware of him sending off so many Tipp players recently. He must be still trying to make up for that 2012 match where Padraic Maher made three separate genuine efforts to get a red card but to no avail.;)