Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

dastardly00

Butterbeans wrote: »

Some interesting stats from under Codys reign.

http://takeoffthecornerforward.com/the-cody-era-the-numbers-part-1/

Part 2 of The Cody Era – The Numbers was published online last month.
Just thought I'd post it here as other people might find it interesting as well.
A lot of work has gone into I'd say!

From this table you can see that the loss of Michael Fennelly to Kilkenny for this years All Ireland Final was substantial. He is the “winningest” player under Cody at an incredible 86% win rate. The only hurler currently active to make the Top 20. Joey Holden at 21st is the next highest ranked active hurler.
Cody’s trusted selectors James McGarry and Derek Lyng both make the list, showing Cody knows his winners well. It is incredible to see that Kavanagh, Shefflin & Brennan had an 80% win rate over 100+ games played.

adrian522

Quite clearly shows Cody's pro-Village/Anti-Boro bias :cool:

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

Quite clearly shows Cody's pro-Village/Anti-Boro bias :cool:

Sadly it shows reality's pro-Village/anti-Boro bias as well.

dubcat51

My 15 from kk/tipp 2009/2014
1.B cummins
2.P.murphy
3.jj
4.jackie
55.tommy
6.B hogan
7.p.maher
8.mick fennelly
9.richie hogan
10.larks
11.henry
12.tj
13 fast eddie
14.callinan
15 l.corbett

Cornerback1

A very Merry Christmas to all Kilkenny GAA supporters all over the world and obviously to all hurling supporters everywhere. Safe travels wherever you are going to!

Hard to believe in a few weeks that'll the county action will be starting al over again.


Beannachtaí na Féile.

Realt Dearg Sec

Going to Kilkenny, at Chicago airport right now, can't get home quick enough to be honest.

Hon the cats, hope ye all have a good Christmas and here's to getting our cup back in 2017!

Dionysis

New Year is nearly here and were less than 8 weeks from the start of the league. This is a big league for Kilkenny. In some ways this year makes watching KK more interesting than others, with regards to, what will Cody do now?

Myself I'd prefer him to drop the regular first team players from the league games and picking a second string 15. My team for the league. We need to hothouse the players rather than stay in division 1a. Cody needs to drive these lads so they get up to speed quicker.

1. Richie Reid
2. Tommy Walsh
3. Michael MurphyPhelan? (Young Ireland)
4.
5.
6. Robert Lennon
7. Huw Lawor
8. Joe Lyng
9. Lester Ryan
10. James Maher
11. Michael Malone
12. Conor OShea
13. Liam Blanchfield
14. Ger Aylward
15. John Walsh

Subs:
John Joe Farrell
Mark Bergin
Ollie Walsh
Richie Leahy
?
?
?
?
?
?
?

dubcat51

Dionysis cant agree with leaving all the established out.new ones need experienced heads beside them.my team v watergord would be.
1.r reid
2.t walsh
3m. Walsh
4.pender
5p.walsh
6.r .lennon
7.c.buckley
8.c fogarty
9.r.leahy
10.j.maher
11.tj
12.wallie
13.ger awylard
14.c.fennelly
15.j.walsh
Subs
R.hogan
K.kelly
P..murphy
Joey holden
O.walsh
L.blanchfield
J.lyng
E.murphy

ProudDUB

dubcat51 wrote: »

See the walsh cup fixtures are out.kk to play antrim in abbotstown 2nd game on the 15/1/17.first game on the 5/1/17 at home to dcu

Will home Walsh Cup games be at Nowlan Park, or some other ground in the county?

dubcat51

Playing dcu at dunmore training centre. Antrim in abbotstown and westmeath in mullingar

Dionysis

dubcat51 wrote: »

Dionysis cant agree with leaving all the established out.new ones need experienced heads beside them.my team v watergord would be.
1.r reid
2.t walsh
3m. Walsh
4.pender
5p.walsh
6.r .lennon
7.c.buckley
8.c fogarty
9.r.leahy
10.j.maher
11.tj
12.wallie
13.ger awylard
14.c.fennelly
15.j.walsh
Subs
R.hogan
K.kelly
P..murphy
Joey holden
O.walsh
L.blanchfield
J.lyng
E.murphy

Wouldn't play padraog Walsh, Buckley, Paul Murphy, Joyce or pender during the league. We need to find backs especially a 3 and a 6. He should probably try Joe Lyng and Lennon at 3 and 6.

brookville

Afaik tommy walsh isn't on the panel but it's highly unlikely he'll put out a 2nd string during the league.I think it's essential that tj and richie are spared during the league.colin fennellys workrate can't be questioned but I still think he should be doing more.Rob lennon will probaly get tried at 6 during the league.id expect conor delaney,jason cleere,richie leahy,john walsh to see game time.Richie reid could be tried outfield although id prefer to see him in goal.
The biggest dillema he has will probaly be no 3,Joey got a all star last year and had a good year,this year he was poor in the league semi final and he struggled at times against dublin especially in the first half and obviously the full back line were cleaned out in the final.i wouldn't be to critical of joey but I don't think his the long term solution and he'd be better out half back.

dubcat51

For me the loss of mick fennelly was crucial.watching his performance again v waterford he was immense.the cover he gave to the back line when he dropped back shored things up.think joey and joyce have got alot of undeserved stick.on 42 minutes we were ahead in the final and the game was there to be won.management needed to make changes earlier when things started to go wrong.joyce did ok on bonner for me.joey needed the space in front of callinan to be filled and paul murphy could have done better .jackie should have came on but didnt.yes we need to find a couple of defenders but managemennt also need to react quicker(im sure they will).the core of a all ireland winning team for 2017 is there with a few tweaks.

brookville

dubcat51 wrote: »

For me the loss of mick fennelly was crucial.watching his performance again v waterford he was immense.the cover he gave to the back line when he dropped back shored things up.think joey and joyce have got alot of undeserved stick.on 42 minutes we were ahead in the final and the game was there to be won.management needed to make changes earlier when things started to go wrong.joyce did ok on bonner for me.joey needed the space in front of callinan to be filled and paul murphy could have done better .jackie should have came on but didnt.yes we need to find a couple of defenders but managemennt also need to react quicker(im sure they will).the core of a all ireland winning team for 2017 is there with a few tweaks.

Michael was a huge loss but I don't think it would of mattered that much we were out worked and out played.We huffed and puffed this year but I'm confident with a few adjustments and hopefully everyone available we'll definitely be in the mix.
I agree joyce done ok but coady likes lennon at 6.I don't think joyce will be moved to 3 but no 4 will be up for grabs.
it's possible joey could be moved but it still leaves a hole at 3 where we haven't many options

dubcat51

Maybe cody can move buckley to 3or someone else.just like fogarty went to midfield from left corner.alot has been made of our last 25 min v tipp in the final.they did to us what we usallly do to others.cody has always learnt from mistakes(hence our great record in replays)im sure he will come up with the answers. Looking forward to seeing the young ones during the walsh cup and leagues.

tbiggertycome

I agree he won't put out a complete second string team he has always mixed youth and experience otherwise it's unfair on young lads and they don't get a proper chance to show their talents if their all struggling.

I would like to see a team something like this to emerge from the league as our Championship team
E Murphy
P Murphy, K Joyce, J Cleere
P Walsh, R Lennon, C Buckley
C Fogarty, O Walsh
Wally, TJ Reid, R Hogan
G Aylward, C Fennelly, J Walsh

R Reid,
S Prendergast
J Holden
C Delaney
E Cody
M Fennelly (replacing O Walsh if fully fit)
L Ryan
C Bolger
K Kelly
L Blanchfield
M Bergin.

Extended panel
S Morrisey
M Malone
M Walsh
R Leahy
P Lyng
L Scanlon
P Deegan
H Lawlor

brookville

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I agree he won't put out a complete second string team he has always mixed youth and experience otherwise it's unfair on young lads and they don't get a proper chance to show their talents if their all struggling.

I would like to see a team something like this to emerge from the league as our Championship team
E Murphy
P Murphy, K Joyce, J Cleere
P Walsh, R Lennon, C Buckley
C Fogarty, O Walsh
Wally, TJ Reid, R Hogan
G Aylward, C Fennelly, J Walsh

R Reid,
S Prendergast
J Holden
C Delaney
E Cody
M Fennelly (replacing O Walsh if fully fit)
L Ryan
C Bolger
K Kelly
L Blanchfield
M Bergin.

Extended panel
S Morrisey
M Malone
M Walsh
R Leahy
P Lyng
L Scanlon
P Deegan
H Lawlor

I agree with most of your team although it's nearly impossible to predict a team and panel for next year and it's only a bit of craic but i wouldn't be in favour of joyce going to 3 but I would be in favour of cillian buckley getting tried at 3.
i think james maher will be close to the set up if he recovers fully from his injury he was showing good form before he got that unfortunate injury
The league should definitely be used to try unearth new talent.
My league/champ team
Murphy
murphy,buckley,delaney/coady
walsh,lennon,joey
fogarty,oillie walsh/leahy
wally,richie,colin
ger,tj,john walsh/bolger
I've excluded michael fennelly who is obviously huge to our plans but hopefully he can make a full recovery

tbiggertycome

brookville wrote: »

I agree with most of your team although it's nearly impossible to predict a team and panel for next year and it's only a bit of craic but i wouldn't be in favour of joyce going to 3 but I would be in favour of cillian buckley getting tried at 3.
i think james maher will be close to the set up if he recovers fully from his injury he was showing good form before he got that unfortunate injury
The league should definitely be used to try unearth new talent.
My league/champ team
Murphy
murphy,buckley,delaney/coady
walsh,lennon,joey
fogarty,oillie walsh/leahy
wally,richie,colin
ger,tj,john walsh/bolger
I've excluded michael fennelly who is obviously huge to our plans but hopefully he can make a full recovery

I totally forgot about James Maher and Jonjo Farrell we definitely shouldn't have any problems for forwards it's the defence where we're tight at the minute. You can play Buckley in most positions but you would be eliminating the big influence he can have on the game from wing back as he would be a lot more confined at full. I'm not sure if Joyce is the answer at FB but I think he will and should be given a shot there. He won't be our CB anyway. He played FB for Kilkenny minor and U21 as far as I remember, and he was very good there. He's not blessed with pace and can be slow to turn so put him in a place where he doesn't have to turn. He's strong as an Ox and wins a lot of aerial ball this is what a FB needs in my opinion. For me his biggest flaw is he holds onto possession too long and tries to run through players before passing the ball this sometimes costs us a turnover and you definitely don't want to see that 20 yards from your own net.

Dionysis

Joyce is only getting slower and is too slow for intercounty full back.
Buckley full back????? Just because probably the greatest ever defender managed to go back full back from wing back does not mean that anyone else can do it. And JJ suffered at the early part of being a full back. Robert Lennon plays full back for his club yes??? Or did I hear that his natural position is full back

Cornerback1

I think we all agree that the forward department is ok. 2-20 would havewon a lot of All Irelands but we obviously conceded too much in defence.


There will probably be changes at 3, 4 and 6 but I think changes must be made quicker in terms of sealing up the centre.


In terms of this, should we adapt to a sweeper system in certain games or go 15 on 15 as normal? Should we even be thinking about a sweeper?

I'm not in favour of it personally but maybe an option if we don't have the personnel for key central positions.

I I'd try Lennon at 6 in the league. I think Joyce is decent but he tries to take on an extra man instead of laying off the simple ball. Then he gets dispossessed or hooked.

If players have regular experience at 3 or 6 at club level, then they should be tried out.

Dionysis

Forwards scored 2-20 in the final.l, but there is only two maybe three that are really up to the standard that KK should looking for and KK have players of the same calibre as Rice, Larkin and Taggy Fogarty coming through so rather than stay with what's there they should be looking to bring these guys on quicker i.e. J Walsh, Leahy, S Morrissey, O Shea.

Regarding the backs yes Joyce didn't look great but I wouldn't totally blame him for all that was scored by Tipp. Can't see KK winning in 2017, but what action Cody takes in this league will go a long way towards how far they go to winning 2018 and beyond. I'd gladly sacrifice this year as another 2005, if it meant we were using it bring another few Taggys, Larkins, Powers, etc.

Cornerback1

I think also that, with hindsight, we were blessed with unreal players in this period and it'd be impossible to keep this standard up.

I still think the we are over critical of players at times. We reached the All Ireland Final, after a semi-final replay and scored 2-20 in the final (a lot of frees from T.J.) but Tipperary were the better team on the day and won fair and square.


Defence, clearly, needed to be adjusted and changes made. I have always said to take a chance with the league and throw youth in and give them a chance. By this I mean give lads at least 2 games, not just 10mins at the end of a game.

1A is tight and doesn't allow for experimentation but i'd mix team with youth and experience and see what happens. Rwlegation play-off but dwvelopment of young players is more important in my opinion. Other lads like Maher, Alyward and Kelly etc. can come into the mix (more forwards).

dubcat51

Agree we must blood quiet a few during the league.but I think there has been a over reaction to the final.yes we lost(but we were on for 3 in a row)we need to tinker with the team not dismantle it and we will be right there again.have watched the semi final v waterford (replay)many times over xmas and the 2014 replay.mick fennellys loss was huge.he was unbelievable in those games.getting him back fit would really be a boost.

Dionysis

Mick Fennelly has at max one year left. if even that, its time to be planning without him and if he makes it back, then that's a bonus.
Waterford should have beaten KK and Tipp did with ease. No point in not playing a good few youngsters in the league where they can get some hard earned experience and KK can see who makes the grade and who needs more time. Then if we finish in the bottom two put out a strong side for the relegation playoff. KK need to unearth talent badly, as a couple of key players are keeping this team in the top two and they get older every year. Had Mick Fennelly and Richie Power played in the 2016 final I would say that KK could have stole it, why?, cos of experience and no end of ability which is never going to come from some of those that played in September. Why continue using average players who will never be great enough to turn an all Ireland final for you,when you have on the bench known underage talent with high potential for lads who are never going to be better than a 6/10. Time to hothouse the up and coming stars, and let's see.

dubcat51

I think cody knows the talent is there but transfering it to the senior stage is the unknown .

Cornerback1

I watched TG4's Top 15 hurling goals of 2016 there and not a Kilkenny one among them.


Some great goals in fairness!!

dubcat51

Surely fennellys first in the replay v watetford.great build up and brillant finish.

Cornerback1

dubcat51 wrote: »

Surely fennellys first in the replay v watetford.great build up and brillant finish.

I was waiting on that t one!

PlayByTheRules

Would agree, there were some poor choices and that first Fennelly goal was a serious goal, had plenty of work to do and finished it very well. He struck it from his perfect distance, a bit similar to his goal in the AI club final.

brookville

Its hard to believe the walsh cup starts next week,the seniors are in san diego so it'll be a u21 side minus cup tied players.I wonder will they mix a few fringe players with the u21s to strengthen the team up.I read over the christmas brian saying he'll be back for the 2nd walsh cup match.Do dcu have any county players or any kilkenny contingent?

Faugheen

brookville wrote: »

Its hard to believe the walsh cup starts next week,the seniors are in san diego so it'll be a u21 side minus cup tied players.I wonder will they mix a few fringe players with the u21s to strengthen the team up.I read over the christmas brian saying he'll be back for the 2nd walsh cup match.Do dcu have any county players or any kilkenny contingent?

Patrick Curran would be the star name they have. I'm not sure of other players but their Freshers got to the championship final last year so they'll be a young, solid side.

dubcat51

Happy new year to all kk supporters out there.looking forward to proving to everyone that we havent gone away you know.

Topcat32

brookville wrote: »

Its hard to believe the walsh cup starts next week,the seniors are in san diego so it'll be a u21 side minus cup tied players.I wonder will they mix a few fringe players with the u21s to strengthen the team up.I read over the christmas brian saying he'll be back for the 2nd walsh cup match.Do dcu have any county players or any kilkenny contingent?

Conor Delaney and Jason Byrne are on the team, they also have Eoghan O Donnell and a good few other Dublin underage players. Carlow IT beat them in the league quarter final.

Topcat32

Dionysis wrote: »

Forwards scored 2-20 in the final.l, but there is only two maybe three that are really up to the standard that KK should looking for and KK have players of the same calibre as Rice, Larkin and Taggy Fogarty coming through so rather than stay with what's there they should be looking to bring these guys on quicker i.e. J Walsh, Leahy, S Morrissey, O Shea.

Regarding the backs yes Joyce didn't look great but I wouldn't totally blame him for all that was scored by Tipp. Can't see KK winning in 2017, but what action Cody takes in this league will go a long way towards how far they go to winning 2018 and beyond. I'd gladly sacrifice this year as another 2005, if it meant we were using it bring another few Taggys, Larkins, Powers, etc.

The forwards who have played regularly for us and are available are TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Walter Walsh, Colin Fennelly, Ger Aylward and Liam Blanchfield, id expect at this point that they would be picked if available. Walsh, Morrissey, Alan Murphy, Richie Leahy and maybe Billy Ryan will likely get chances but Im not sure if any will start championship matches. I think James Maher, Luke Scanlon, Robert Lennon, Conor Delaney and Jason Cleere have a better chance of playing, mainly because they are in positions where we need replacements or more options.

dubcat51

Think chris bolger is a talent but needs to make break thru this year.

brookville

dubcat51 wrote: »

Think chris bolger is a talent but needs to make break thru this year.

He had a great club campaign for clara he was their main man.His definitely a good prospect along with john walsh

Cornerback1

dubcat51 wrote: »

Think chris bolger is a talent but needs to make break thru this year.

Yeah, he came on V Clare in league semi-final in Thurles and chipped in with 2 decent points. I thought we'd see more of him over the summer but he seemed to slip down the pecking order after Kelly and Blanchfield.

Maybe needs to up the workrate on the county scene but he has the talent and is at the right age now to push on for Kilkenny.

dubcat51

I saw him play for 21s v dublin 2 seadons ago in parnell park.he was the best player on the park.cameo v clare promised alot.hope he can step up as I think he has a killer instinct

Deise_2012

He's in St.Pats isn't he?

Deise_2012

Patrick Curran would be the star name they have. I'm not sure of other players but their Freshers got to the championship final last year so they'll be a young, solid side

Faugheen wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

Its hard to believe the walsh cup starts next week,the seniors are in san diego so it'll be a u21 side minus cup tied players.I wonder will they mix a few fringe players with the u21s to strengthen the team up.I read over the christmas brian saying he'll be back for the 2nd walsh cup match.Do dcu have any county players or any kilkenny contingent?

Patrick Curran would be the star name they have. I'm not sure of other players but their Freshers got to the championship final last year so they'll be a young, solid side.

Patrick's in St.Pats isn't he? His brother was in DCU

Topcat32

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Patrick Curran would be the star name they have. I'm not sure of other players but their Freshers got to the championship final last year so they'll be a young, solid side


Patrick's in St.Pats isn't he? His brother was in DCU

St Pats is part of DCU now but they are keeping seperate teams at least for this year, he can play with both but DCU have a much stronger team

citykat

Leinster GAA (@gaaleinster) tweeted at 5:41 PM on Tue, Jan 03, 2017:
Thursday Night Hurling Lights!
@KilkennyCLG v @DCUGAAAcademy
MWHire Pk Dunmore @ 7.30 Thursday
Bord na Móna #WalshCup https://t.co/Am96QfIfd3
(https://twitter.com/gaaleinster/status/816338611666829313?s=09)

You'll need your thermals for this one!

dastardly00

Anybody at the match?

Realt Dearg Sec

Wasn't at it, heard Richie Leahy was class, the weather was freezing, and the match was sh1t.

suirway

Good crowd in Dunmore. Ok match without being anything to write home about! Evan Cody solid full back, Tommy Walsh very impressive wing back, Richie Leahy best player on field, Pat Lyng won a fair bit of ball and John Donnelly was a handful full forward. Sub goalie Dunphy pulled off few very good saves late on. Under 21's have plenty of hurlers to work with so should be expected to produce a big year.

kilkennyboy

dastardly00 wrote: »

Anybody at the match?

yea game ok.dcu fairly poor .Tommy Walsh looked good and Cody in the corner look like they could step up.pat Lyng also and leahy.
would need to add a few more good lads for that group to win u21.

The Slobs

John Walsh Liam Blanchfield, Conor Delaney, Darren Mullen Luke Scanlan among other to return to that squad

brookville

Alan Murphy, conor doheny,andrew gaffney,sean morrissey,billy ryan and jason cleere also missing.
Richie leahy the best player on view last night.outstanding under the high ball.

Cornerback1

kilkennyboy wrote: »

dastardly00 wrote: »

Anybody at the match?

yea game ok.dcu fairly poor .Tommy Walsh looked good and Cody in the corner look like they could step up.pat Lyng also and leahy.
would need to add a few more good lads for that group to win u21.

Strange to have 3 free takers or was it one for short frees and one for long range?

brookville

Tommy walsh scored two long range frees and kevin farrell went off at half time.I'd like to see leahy,tommy walsh and mullen getting some league time