Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Topcat32

brookville wrote: »

I wouldn't dismiss joyce but joey is only getting by at this level,he had great protection from murphy,He'll probably have to put murphy back corner back and he could leave padraig at 3 but we probably need padraig at 5 or maybe we need him in the fowards?
I know lads have mixed reviews bout bolger but as someone else said his better than conor martin,sean morrissey and michael malone (who wasn't listed since the walsh cup) at least himself and john walsh are goal getters

Too early to say he is better than Sean Morrissey who is 20/21, don't see Martin or Malone making it.

Backs must likely to be P Walsh, P Murphy, C Buckley, K Joyce, J Holden, R Lennon

Topcat32

The players of current and potential intercounty standard that we havent seen so far for various reasons are Michael Fennelly, Colin Fennelly, Ger Aylward, Conor Delaney, Chris Bolger, John Walsh, Luke Scanlon, Jason Cleere, Tommy Walsh, Diarmuid Cody

Anybody else to add to this list?

Village87

John Power - Pity its not his brother

Hawkeye6

Virtually every poster here wanted to see this change and that change, this lad tried and that lad tried.  Winning the league is not important one poster wrote. This change and that change happened, this lad and that lad was tried and still nobody is happy!! 

Fact 1: Two years ago we lost the first two games of the league. Went on to win an All-Ireland.
Fact 2: We have a 100% trophy record in 2017 winning the Walsh cup beating Wexford (lot of talk about them after the weekend) in New Ross and Galway. Only a few weeks ago. Are our memories that short?
Fact 3: We can still mathematically win the league to keep the 100% trophy record in 2017.

Over a week ago, I asked here what county had a top class Full Back and bar one or two hesitant votes for Daithi Burke from Galway, there wasn’t one. There are lads singing about Padraig Walsh at full back as if it is the only good thing happening. I wonder… There was even the farcical situation yesterday of the local radio station giving him the Man of the Match. Seriously!! How two legendary hurlers could allow themselves to get sucked into such nonsense? I don’t know. I would suggest people should look at the last two matches again and see where Padraig Walsh was for the three goals we conceded. He certainly was not protecting the square. Also, look at the number of superb saves Eoin Murphy has had to make in those two games. A lot more than normal, I would say… Combine that with the lack of points from the half back line. Really! There was one poster who questioned Padraig and in my opinion he is not a full back at the moment.  The choice for our management is should they persist and make him one or try something else?

Fact 4: Joey Holden was the All-Star full back in 2015, that last time we lost the first two games of the league and went on to win the All-Ireland. He also captained the team.

My opinion as opposed to fact, Joey Holden was the best of our three players in the full back line in the All-Ireland final against Tipperary.  Also in my opinion, Joey Holden was Not at fault for the goals conceded against Clare in the League last year, Eoin Murphy was. These are the two games that have turned people against Joey, if you study past posts. Some talk about his speed, but was Noel Hickey fast? I remember a similar bias against Brian Hogan not long after he came on the panel.  Maybe we should stick with Joey as the best we have and try to fix the problem which exists further out the field which again in my opinion and obviously Eoin Larkins too (though he should have kept it to himself) is the work rate. It wasn’t there yesterday.  I believe particularly our half forward line need to work a lot harder when they haven’t the ball and that goes for some of the established players as much as the newer players. A lot of lads are codding themselves that they are doing it. Workrate is a key ingredient of a Cody Kilkenny team.

People who post here are entitled to their opinion, but they also need to be wary. The younger players are more inclined to read online comments than past generations. I don’t need to explain why this is. They will be told to avoid these forums like the plague, but they get hooked when they read something good about themselves and are unprepared for when the bad happens and are unlikely to tell anyone because they’ve been told avoid them in the first place. So bear that in mind.

Also forums like these do give a general view of the mood in the county, though often an inaccurate view of the squad. I often lol when I see some of the “facts” written here.  Last September there was an unusual air of blaise around the county. Shocking given that we were meeting Tipp in an All-Ireland Final. I do believe it got to the players.  Now a massive depression has hit judging by the comments here. That is not going to be good particularly for the younger player. The players are there and the raw material is good enough, it just needs to be blended to get the right mix. We might need to be a little bit patient.

On the bright side Carrickshock were absolutely brilliant on Saturday. An All-Ireland in the bag for the county. Hard luck Mooncoin. Both Kilkenny Camogie teams won their openers in the National League. The seniors hammering Tipp and the Intermediates beating Down, with a completely new team!! The Minor Camogie also won their first game of the All-Ireland serious against Limerick.  The real Kilkenny GAA fans will appreciate this. And there’s another All Kilkenny Leinster senior colleges hurling final on the way too.

There is something of a more debatable nature coming up this weekend with Congress with anti-club and ignore-hurling motions the big item on the agenda and our own Young Irelands are one of a number of clubs trying to bring common sense to the minor/Under-17 debacle which is coming like a freight train and has already hit many clubs in rural Ireland. (Btw I believe Kilkenny is considered the second most rural county in Leinster after Longford) I might post on congress in a separate post later in the week.

 

Village87

[QUOTEMy opinion as opposed to fact, Joey Holden was the best of our three players in the full back line in the All-Ireland final against Tipperary][/QUOTE]

His man got 9 points from play and walked off the field without breaking sweat, did as he pleased without interference. Shows how bad are full back line really is

Nedflanders02

Topcat32 wrote: »

The players of current and potential intercounty standard that we havent seen so far for various reasons are Michael Fennelly, Colin Fennelly, Ger Aylward, Conor Delaney, Chris Bolger, John Walsh, Luke Scanlon, Jason Cleere, Tommy Walsh, Diarmuid Cody

Anybody else to add to this list?

Michael Cody, Darren Mullen, Billy Ryan, Huw Lalor, Ciaran Wallace possibly. Robbie Fitzpatrick looked a great prospect the year the Boro got to the county final but seems to have dropped off a bit since, possibly through injuries.

unrealtime

I am afraid we are in real trouble and denying reality does not wash.

There has been such unbelievable messing with all stars like Joyce, Walsh Buckley and Murphy.

No doubt the back line should be Murphy Joey (I'd give him a chance on past form) and one other. If we don't have better than Joyce then half line is Walsh Joyce and Buckley. Stop the messing around and find a tight left full and perhaps a centre-half. Fogaty stays at midfield and Hogan Reid Colin Fennelly and Walter are in the forwards. Find two more. Is Ger Aylward ever going to play again. But stop stop stop all the messing around and the disgraceful undermining of all stars.

Topcat32

unrealtime wrote: »

I am afraid we are in real trouble and denying reality does not wash.

There has been such unbelievable messing with all stars like Joyce, Walsh Buckley and Murphy.

No doubt the back line should be Murphy Joey (I'd give him a chance on past form) and one other. If we don't have better than Joyce then half line is Walsh Joyce and Buckley.  Stop the messing around and find a tight left full and perhaps a centre-half.  Fogaty stays at midfield and Hogan Reid Colin Fennelly and Walter are in the forwards.  Find two more. Is Ger Aylward ever going to play again. But stop stop stop all the messing around and the disgraceful undermining of all stars.

Playing in a different position in a league match is not being undermined. Ger is coming back from a cruciate ligament injury, it's hardly surprising that he has not started yet. To find two more as you put it he has to try out new players who will take time to settle in even if they do eventually work out.

buck65

Topcat32 wrote: »

4 all ireland this decade, 4 all irelands in the history of hurling, bump, but sadly yesterday doesnt even prove that your backline isnt poor, despite how much they dominated, will need to see Clare again against a team with at least one fast forward to make a judgement

Bump, biggest loss ever under Cody's stewardship.

brookville

unrealtime wrote: »

I am afraid we are in real trouble and denying reality does not wash.

There has been such unbelievable messing with all stars like Joyce, Walsh Buckley and Murphy.

No doubt the back line should be Murphy Joey (I'd give him a chance on past form) and one other. If we don't have better than Joyce then half line is Walsh Joyce and Buckley. Stop the messing around and find a tight left full and perhaps a centre-half. Fogaty stays at midfield and Hogan Reid Colin Fennelly and Walter are in the forwards. Find two more. Is Ger Aylward ever going to play again. But stop stop stop all the messing around and the disgraceful undermining of all stars.

I think it's more than the backs are the problem the forwards have being very poor the ball yesterday clare were getting and the same as tipp last year it's easy enough make hay.
Have teams finally worked us out?man mark hogan and keep tj quite
I hope now he throws caution to the wind and tries a few more players if dublin can compete with youngsters we should be able aswell

Morris Moss

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

much smaller than that. 5 - 10 max is my guess

I'd know him very well, and he's taller than 5-10, it doesn't really matter anyway he shouldn't be playing fullback, he's to important a hurler for us.

minty81

It was our biggest defeat since 1992 v Limerick which was 1-18 o 0-7.

minty81

Firstly I think anyone saying its only February and only the league are burying their heads in the sand. We have serious problems all over the field. We were in a relegation battle 2 years ago but on that occasion we were straight out of 6/7 huge retirements, injuries and the shamrocks players unavailable. The worrying thing now is there aren’t a host of automatic starters to come back in. Mick Fennelly would make a huge difference but given his injury problems we really can’t depend on that.

We lost a huge amount of players over the last 2 or 3 years but maybe the biggest loss of all was Martin Fogarty. I haven’t seen the training sessions that are put on now but we look a very poorly coached team. No shape to our team at all. Last week in the second half Waterford left Patrick Curran one on one with Joey for much of the second half. No other players inside the 45 yard line, our other defenders dragged out easily. Now fortunately it was at a stage where kk were getting on top and we weren’t caught out too much at that period but I just couldn’t believe how easily we were dragged around.

Similarly in the All Ireland our half back line were dragged upfield to create loads of space inside. Its not exactly a revolutionary tactic but we can’t keep our shape at the back at all.

And as for delivery of ball, just lump it up the field. Grand when we had the likes of Henry, Eddie and Power up there to look after themselves, different story now. If theres any coaching being done on this we certainly aren’t seeing it on matchday.

And when Colin Fennelly is out of the team there is no pace whatsoever in our forward line. Not easily fix that!

Richie & TJ have lost a few yards and no longer can get away from their men. Richie was very poor yesterday but he just looked frustrated to me.

As far as a team for the Cork game goes I agree with the other comments that we have to get Paul Murphy back in the corner.

I don’t like seeing Padraig Walsh full back but to be honest I just don’t see an alternative at the moment. The modern full back needs to be mobile so Joyce and Lennon don’t fit the bill for me. Any takers for trying Richie Reid in half back line by the way?

We need to look elsewhere than Shane Pender, he’s 31 now, he’s not going to suddenly improve or gain some pace. Realistically we need to build for the next couple of years. The chickens have come home to roost as far as our u-21 performances this decade.

Suggested team for Cork game, though whenever Jason Cleere is back from injury I’d certainly be trying him in half back line.

E Murphy

Murphy Walsh O’Shea

C Delaney Joyce Buckley

Fogarty O Walsh

Leahy Hogan TJ

Wally Blanchfield Bolger

Topcat32

Got a good beating by Dublin in the league final in 2011 as well, losing by 12

SteJer

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

no relegation playoff this year , as i heard before but wasnt sure , this is from the offical gaa website makes sense really , and makes the next game against cork huge for the cats

That's only for the losers of the 1B relegation final and the winner of 2A. The winner of 2A had to play the loser of the 1B relegation final in previous years but that's now scrapped. There is still a 1A relegation final and it's scheduled for either April 1st or 2nd.

Nedflanders02

Does anyone know what the story is with Joe Lyng is or when is he due back from injury? He be another option at the back or maybe midfield.

Topcat32

Nedflanders02 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is with Joe Lyng is or when is he due back from injury? He be another option at the back or maybe midfield.

Still on the panel but injured at the moment I belive

randd1

For the rest of the league, is like to see the lads line out like this:

E Murphy,
P Murphy - J Holden - P Walsh
K Joyce - R Lennon - C Buckley
O Walsh - C Fogarty
W Walsh - TJ Reid - J Power
L Blanchfield - R Hogan - R Leahy

If we went with that I'd like to see three things happen along with it.

- The HB line hold their line a bit deeper, Lennon especially, to cut down the space between them and the FB line, with Fogarty operating as a covering midfielder and as an out for the defence.
Walsh would be the legs to cover the defence/support the forwards with his direct running.

- With the HB line playing deeper, the HF line would really need to get stuck in physically. Walsh, Reid and Power are all big men capable of winning their own ball, and crucially can cover the yards as well, dropping into midfield to cover the attacks to help cut down quality ball coming at the defence, and all three are strong runners going towards goal.

- All of which would mean that the ball to the FF line should be good low ball as our HF line and midfield playing a bit deeper should drag the opposition out a bit. Richie Hogan could drop another 10 yards and be the link man if he got the right ball.

I think that team playing that way would be a tough nut to crack.

Come championship we would have Aylward and Colin Fennelly back, with Farrell another option from te bench up front. Murphy and Walsh in the corners would allow Holden to tight mark as both are better at covering than marking.

brookville

randd1 wrote: »

For the rest of the league, is like to see the lads line out like this:

E Murphy,
P Murphy - J Holden - P Walsh
K Joyce - R Lennon - C Buckley
O Walsh - C Fogarty
W Walsh - TJ Reid - J Power
L Blanchfield - R Hogan - R Leahy

If we went with that I'd like to see three things happen along with it.

- The HB line hold their line a bit deeper, Lennon especially, to cut down the space between them and the FB line, with Fogarty operating as a covering midfielder and as an out for the defence.
Walsh would be the legs to cover the defence/support the forwards with his direct running.

- With the HB line playing deeper, the HF line would really need to get stuck in physically. Walsh, Reid and Power are all big men capable of winning their own ball, and crucially can cover the yards as well, dropping into midfield to cover the attacks to help cut down quality ball coming at the defence, and all three are strong runners going towards goal.

- All of which would mean that the ball to the FF line should be good low ball as our HF line and midfield playing a bit deeper should drag the opposition out a bit. Richie Hogan could drop another 10 yards and be the link man if he got the right ball.

I think that team playing that way would be a tough nut to crack.

Come championship we would have Aylward and Colin Fennelly back, with Farrell another option from te bench up front. Murphy and Walsh in the corners would allow Holden to tight mark as both are better at covering than marking.

I don't think john power is the answer awful shame richie has only one knee his twice the hurler john is with only one leg,pat lyng will be half forward when he returns from injury
I'm suprised lennon isn't getting time in conditions that suit him and I would of preferred to have seen delaney ahead of pender yesterday.
There'll hopefully be a kick for the cork match a win there will lift things it's tipp then hopefully they'll be qualified at that stage and put out their junior team

Michael Kavanagh

Is there a need to bring in the sweeper system, no body hits a ball more than twenty yards now the amount of hand passing by Clare yesterday was unreal. The match v Waterford we were still pumping in high balls from the backs they were coming back as quick we could have getting a result from that match.

suirway

Since lads are posting teams might as well join in. Unsure how many of the following are available V Cork but here goes!

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy Robert Lennon Tommy Walsh
Jason Cleere Cillian Buckley Conor Fogarty
Richie Hogan Lester Ryan
Walter Walsh Padraig Walsh TJ Reid
Ger Aylward Colin Fennelly John Walsh

brookville

suirway wrote: »

Since lads are posting teams might as well join in. Unsure how many of the following are available V Cork but here goes!

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy Robert Lennon Tommy Walsh
Jason Cleere Cillian Buckley Conor Fogarty
Richie Hogan Lester Ryan
Walter Walsh Padraig Walsh TJ Reid
Ger Aylward Colin Fennelly John Walsh

Lester gone for the league and colin will hardly be back.I'm nearly certain cleere is having hip trouble which is common issue with inter county players unfortunately,I was told last week that joe lyng and aylward are nearly back but both probably won't be rushed for the league
It's unlikely we'll see tommy walsh this year and certainly unlikely padraig will be pushed to center forward although I did suggest earlier we probably need him in attack

Topcat32

brookville wrote: »

Lester gone for the league and colin will hardly be back.I'm nearly certain cleere is having hip trouble which is common issue with inter county players unfortunately,I was told last week that joe lyng and aylward are nearly back but both probably won't be rushed for the league
It's unlikely we'll see tommy walsh this year and certainly unlikely padraig will be pushed to center forward although I did suggest earlier we probably need him in attack

Dont know anything about Jason Cleere's issues, but just on the hip problem and on a wider gaa perspective, doesnt it make sense that hip problems like what Richie Doyle had, is identified earlier, surely if we are going to put under 16 players on weights programmes which I believe Kilkenny have started to do recently a full and comprehensive health check including scans should be undertaken

ttowncat

randd1 wrote: »

For the rest of the league, is like to see the lads line out like this:

E Murphy,
P Murphy - J Holden - P Walsh
K Joyce - R Lennon - C Buckley
O Walsh - C Fogarty
W Walsh - TJ Reid - J Power
L Blanchfield - R Hogan - R Leahy

If we went with that I'd like to see three things happen along with it.

- The HB line hold their line a bit deeper, Lennon especially, to cut down the space between them and the FB line, with Fogarty operating as a covering midfielder and as an out for the defence.
Walsh would be the legs to cover the defence/support the forwards with his direct running.

- With the HB line playing deeper, the HF line would really need to get stuck in physically. Walsh, Reid and Power are all big men capable of winning their own ball, and crucially can cover the yards as well, dropping into midfield to cover the attacks to help cut down quality ball coming at the defence, and all three are strong runners going towards goal.

- All of which would mean that the ball to the FF line should be good low ball as our HF line and midfield playing a bit deeper should drag the opposition out a bit. Richie Hogan could drop another 10 yards and be the link man if he got the right ball.

I think that team playing that way would be a tough nut to crack.

Come championship we would have Aylward and Colin Fennelly back, with Farrell another option from te bench up front. Murphy and Walsh in the corners would allow Holden to tight mark as both are better at covering than marking.

This system sounds like what has served us well over the last decade, especially the half back line staying in position (best example I can think of is John Tennyson in 2009 letting Noel McGrath catch a puck out on the sideline uncontested and score a point - take your point but there's no way you're dragging us out so as to get in for goal!) But I wonder if they had played that way over the last two league matches would they just be watching their midfielders being smothered by the the oppositions half forwards and midfield and then bracing themselves for a wave attack of runners, dummy runners and interlocking hand passing that is near impossible to hold out especially if in a standing position and them brushing by at full pelt... I can easily understand why they feel the need to go out and get involved in the mosh pit that is now midfield...

Cornerback1

I suppose the one positive thing out of all this is the management are trying different lads and different lads in different positions etc. It's not like they can say they never got a chance. We all have different opinions of who should play where etc.

I'd like to see P Murphy back in the corner and Padráig Walsh out at half back. We need to compress the first third and stop easy goal scoring opportunities.

I think people need to realise the day of starting in the corner and staying there the who match is kinda gone - forwards move all over the place now in trying to create space.


I think Cody must build his defence first - whether that is playing a sweeper or squeezing space, it must be done. A strong defence is half the battle in my opinion. Be good to see Robert Lennon at No. 6 and see how he goes there.

The forwards are another story.

Topcat32

minty81 wrote: »

It was our biggest defeat since 1992 v Limerick which was 1-18 o 0-7.

Despite winning 2 all irelands in a row that Kilkenny team had some bad results in the league, lost to both Down and Antrim the following year and were relegated. Only scraped over teams like Kerry and Westmeath. Very different time but imagine the reaction on here if this site was around then.

Have to wonder how much benifit being in division 1 A and going hell for leather for 5 matches in early Spring is for any team. Its an odd league when you consider that a team in the second division has won the whole thing for the last two years.

Hawkeye6

CONGRESS - Motion to reverse Anti-rural club Under-17 rules
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=266417
One of the key elements of the existing rules that is forgotten/ignored is the fact that if even an up to the Minor inter-county player CANNOT play Adult for his club until the county is knocked out of the Championship.  Imagine being a panelist on an inter county team and from a small club and still getting no matches.  Its one of the many issues with this which is also driving the changes to underage grades from 2018 onwards.   There will be two minor All-Irelands this year to accommodate this change. The usual under-18 one and a once off under-17 one for lads born in 2000 who would have missed out next year (but they are still really missing out). Well done to Young Irelands and it would be a shame if it is not passed.

All the Motions
http://www.gaa.ie/news/annual-congress-2017-the-motions-explained/

Michael Kavanagh

Jason Cleere did a lot of hurling with the Bridge, St Kierans, and under age with kilkenny the last couple of years

brookville

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Jason Cleere did a lot of hurling with the Bridge, St Kierans, and under age with kilkenny the last couple of years

Huge amount done already hopefully the break will give him a chance to get over the injury.Anyone any idea how the u21s are going with practice matches etc?

Topcat32

Think the papers have overblown the two defeats a lot, absolutely there are genuine questions to ask about Kilkenny, but front page and a full back page on the indo yesterday and John Fogarty questioning players pride on the old Cork Examiner today, Dublin, Clare and Cork allready have been reported to be in crisis this February. I wonder is this more about the mainstream journalists feeling threatened by online media than anything else.

Realt Dearg Sec

Topcat32 wrote: »

Think the papers have overblown the two defeats a lot, absolutely there are genuine questions to ask about Kilkenny, but front page and a full back page on the indo yesterday and John Fogarty questioning players pride on the old Cork Examiner today, Dublin, Clare and Cork allready have been reported to be in crisis this February. I wonder is this more about the mainstream journalists feeling threatened by online media than anything else.

I dunno, it's not like online media has been a rock of good sense either so I'm not sure if print media should be shipping too much blame! But I agree with your general point about the alarm bells being rung. I think it's because of how the hurling season is structured, and just how little we have to go on in forming opinions. We never seem to learn: I'm excited there's hurling back on TV, so I'm reluctant to dismiss what I'm seeing as irrelevant.

That having been said, there are a lot of things to be genuinely worried about from Sunday. I don't think it's at all like the last time we were in a relegation final. If it were, there'd be concrete things we could point to as signs of promise. Who are the players emerging that we feel could make a big difference this year? It's worrying that our keeper was probably our best player. Eoin Larkin was saying the young players didn't stand up and left it to the senior men. I don't know who he was referring to, because from what I could see the senior men were at nothing.

Interestingly to me, a few weeks ago most of us were mainly discussing full back and what's to be done. There's some debate about Padraig Walsh there, personally I was against the move because I don't think the position suits him, but he's not been too bad at least in some people's view. In the meantime, though, virtually every other position we've looked dodgy. I still think Walsh is getting dragged all over the place and leaving us vulnerable, but even with Noel Hickey there we'd be in trouble at the moment because opposition are getting ball into the danger area at will. Our half forwards have simply not been able to put any kind of pressure onto the backs. Not that they need much quality ball, nobody for Kilkenny at either end of the field looks like they can catch anything out of the air. Maybe we're heavy legged with training, and if so, so be it, and I'm sure improvement will follow. But what new players are we expecting to come in that will make us a better team next year (given that we were not good enough last year, so the same again won't work)?

I don't think it's time to panic, and overreaction to February hurling is a bit silly, but on the other hand, if we are thinking about an All Ireland this year, there's a huge, huge gap to be made up even at this stage. People have mentioned 2015 and how slowly we started, sure, but the look of the team, the lethargy, the lack of fight, the uncertainty about what they're trying to do, it all looks a lot more like 2013. But without the batin of Tipp.

EDIT: should clarify, I think we'll beat Cork, the players will be hurt by all the talk of their demise and how poor the new players are. Hopefully it'll galvanise them even just to spite us all for our unbelief. Whatever about that, I think we'll show huge improvement the next day. But that doesn't mean there aren't things to worry about.

Topcat32

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I dunno, it's not like online media has been a rock of good sense either so I'm not sure if print media should be shipping too much blame! But I agree with your general point about the alarm bells being rung. I think it's because of how the hurling season is structured, and just how little we have to go on in forming opinions. We never seem to learn: I'm excited there's hurling back on TV, so I'm reluctant to dismiss what I'm seeing as irrelevant.

That having been said, there are a lot of things to be genuinely worried about from Sunday. I don't think it's at all like the last time we were in a relegation final. If it were, there'd be concrete things we could point to as signs of promise. Who are the players emerging that we feel could make a big difference this year? It's worrying that our keeper was probably our best player. Eoin Larkin was saying the young players didn't stand up and left it to the senior men. I don't know who he was referring to, because from what I could see the senior men were at nothing.

Interestingly to me, a few weeks ago most of us were mainly discussing full back and what's to be done. There's some debate about Padraig Walsh there, personally I was against the move because I don't think the position suits him, but he's not been too bad at least in some people's view. In the meantime, though, virtually every other position we've looked dodgy. I still think Walsh is getting dragged all over the place and leaving us vulnerable, but even with Noel Hickey there we'd be in trouble at the moment because opposition are getting ball into the danger area at will. Our half forwards have simply not been able to put any kind of pressure onto the backs. Not that they need much quality ball, nobody for Kilkenny at either end of the field looks like they can catch anything out of the air. Maybe we're heavy legged with training, and if so, so be it, and I'm sure improvement will follow. But what new players are we expecting to come in that will make us a better team next year (given that we were not good enough last year, so the same again won't work)?

I don't think it's time to panic, and overreaction to February hurling is a bit silly, but on the other hand, if we are thinking about an All Ireland this year, there's a huge, huge gap to be made up even at this stage. People have mentioned 2015 and how slowly we started, sure, but the look of the team, the lethargy, the lack of fight, the uncertainty about what they're trying to do, it all looks a lot more like 2013. But without the batin of Tipp.

EDIT: should clarify, I think we'll beat Cork, the players will be hurt by all the talk of their demise and how poor the new players are. Hopefully it'll galvanise them even just to spite us all for our unbelief. Whatever about that, I think we'll show huge improvement the next day. But that doesn't mean there aren't things to worry about.

My point is more that online media is all abouts hits and clickbait and by definition needs to be sensational. Its success and the need for mainstream journalism to compete with it has made journalists prone to overstatement.

On what further players can make a difference to the team there is a relatively long list, Colin Fennelly, Ger Aylward, Michael Fennelly, John Power, Luke Scanlon, Conor Delaney, Jason Cleere, Richie Reid, Alan Murphy, Joe Lyng and John Walsh potentially for this year, next year Tommy Walsh, Darren Mullen, Michael Cody and Billy Ryan. Add that to Pat Lyng, Sean Morrissey, Richie Leahy and Liam Blanchfield and there is potential there. Obviously not all of the above players will work out but I believe the younger players mentioned do have talent.

Noddy33

Kevin Farrell has since been called in to KK panel following the end of the All Ireland series with Carrickshock. I am a bit suprised if im honest but certainly not ruling out the possibility of him making any impact...... Its just I would have thought he would be a very similar player and playing style to alot of the other young lads we have already and feel we need lads of more physical presence that are able to take their scores. All considerations his form has been very impressive at times this year although lacks consistency in my opinion but definitely no harm in giving him a run out and whether that does be the Cork game next week remains to be seen......

Cornerback1

Good that all these lads' names are mentioned as they have talent and potential at this level but we can only play 15 players and use our subs when needed. It's important that we have the best 15 on the park and the worrying thing for me is we don't know who they are.

Lads have had chances but haven't performed as expected, for whatever reason, so Cork is a huge game and not even the result. The attitude and workrate will tell the tale in the Cork game and we'll have a better picture then.

I think with the 2 week break we'll come out of the blocks fired up and go at it from the first whistle. With a huge intensity, the performance will be better regardless of what team starts.

MfMan

Topcat32 wrote: »

Think the papers have overblown the two defeats a lot, absolutely there are genuine questions to ask about Kilkenny, but front page and a full back page on the indo yesterday and John Fogarty questioning players pride on the old Cork Examiner today, Dublin, Clare and Cork allready have been reported to be in crisis this February. I wonder is this more about the mainstream journalists feeling threatened by online media than anything else.

Hey, hey, hey, Galway are in crisis too after last Sunday. Why are you always leaving us out of things?

Who was the powerful midfielder that played for the KK minors in '15? Outstanding prospect if I recall...

Topcat32

MfMan wrote: »

Hey, hey, hey, Galway are in crisis too after last Sunday. Why are you always leaving us out of things?

Who was the powerful midfielder that played for the KK minors in '15? Outstanding prospect if I recall...

Richie Leahy, played and scored a point on Sunday, even though he looked a reasonably big minor he looks very light at senior level, will need to bulk up a good bit. Can't really judge him at this stage, winter hurling doesn't suit him at the moment.

adrian522

Good Article here I think. I'm certainly in the "No need to panic just yet" camp.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/second-opinion-write-brian-cody-off-at-your-peril-1.2984967

Noddy33

mullinr2 wrote: »

Was at the match. Where do I begin. All I can say lads is that we were a complete shambles. No structure to our backs, first touch off,  losing all the 50/50 exchanges.  Cannot catch a ball out of the sky anymore.  For a big man Walter Walsh is pure useless in the air. He can never get his positioning right. R. Hogan looks like he couldn't give a damn. Attitude is completely off.  They looked like a team seriously lacking in confidence, drive and intensity.  
No more excuses lads, the decline has come fast. Apparently Ger Alyward has been kicked off the panel. Was told at match. Won't get into it,  but it's for serious indiscipline.  
Cody has them playing in a way that doesn't suit our current group of forwards. We just don't have those ball winners anymore.  
Lads there was a u14 team a few years ago that won the Forristal tournament.  They were meant to have been very good.   It could have been 3 or 4 years ago. Hopefully we can come good again, but for now, we will just have to watch TIPPERARY dominate for the next 3-5 years.

Just to nip this kind of talk here ........there is no truth what so ever to Ger Alyward been dropped off the panel. He has been doing alot of gym work and suffered a minor setback last week when tweaked a hamstring so I would assume he wont be risked for the Cork match and considering our struggles in the forwards so far this year I wouldnt be suprised if he is held back for the rest of the league altogether to ensure he is fully fit when he does return.
Really hope Carlow IT have a good weekend in the Fitzgibbon this weekend and that Chris Bolger puts down a performance that leaves Cody with no choice but to give him a run. It has to be an mental and attitude thing with Bolger that Cody must not like in him which has failed to see him really get any real proper opportunity because there no doubt he been one of the best performers on the Kilkenny club scene

paulie gaultieri

IT Carlow and UCC gone to extra time

JimboJones99

Kevin Kelly scored a goal with 4 mins left to put Carlow 5 ahead. John Power scored a goal a couple mins later to bring UCC back into it, think that was followed by 2 Michael Breen points to level it. Carlow missed a 65 to win it in injury time

paulie gaultieri

Congrats to the dodger and IT Carlow best of luck tomorrow afternoon

Nedflanders02

Good day for the Kilkenny contingent on display Bolger with 0-04 from play and Kevin Kelly with 1-1 for Carlow, John Power came on at half time for UCC and scored 1-1.

brookville

Nedflanders02 wrote: »

Good day for the Kilkenny contingent on display Bolger with 0-04 from play and Kevin Kelly with 1-1 for Carlow, John Power came on at half time for UCC and scored 1-1.

Well done to carlow and dj what they've achieved is unbelievable.He'll probably have clubs and maybe counties after his services next year,I was suprised he wasn't given the intermediate or a selector role with the minor/u21
It's good to read of a few kk players on the score sheet today john power and bolger will probably see league action.I wonder could kevin kelly be a option for midfield? he seems to have done well for college granted it would be a few steps down from county

Cornerback1

Well done to all concerned. As I stated earlier, I saw Kevin Kelly play mid-field for Carlow IT V Meath in Jan. He was very good but different competition.

Big ask for them tomorrow esp. after playing extra-time today. 24hrs not long enough but you never know. When you look at St. Mary's winning last week, it'll be all to play for.

Picky Maher doing really well this year.

dobbs2210

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Well done to all concerned. As I stated earlier, I saw Kevin Kelly play mid-field for Carlow IT V Meath in Jan. He was very good but different competition.

Big ask for them tomorrow esp. after playing extra-time today. 24hrs not long enough but you never know. When you look at St. Mary's winning last week, it'll be all to play for.

Picky Maher doing really well this year.

Also saw Kevin Kelly midfield but it was in the quarter final of the Fitzgibbon Cup against University of Limerick and he incredibly poor.
Taken off with 15 to 20 minutes remaining.

blackcard

The final of the Fitzgibbon Cup is on TG4 tomorrow l

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

The final of the Fitzgibbon Cup is on TG4 tomorrow l

Followed by Slaughtneil V Cuala in club semi-final.

Cornerback1

Localstreaming.club covering CBS V St. Kieran's Leinster Final.

dubcat51

Young ciaran brennan of kierans going over on trial to bournemouth next week.pkayed for ireland u16s v hungary on thursday.only 15 but has plsyed for kk u17 and kierans seniors.

unrealtime

There was a time when young lads main desire was to play hurling with Kilkenny and win All Irelands. Times have changed and there are huge awards and unknown pitfalls for professional players.
The general mindset has certainly changed. Maybe our gathering of medals by the dozen has had something to do with the changing attitudes too.