Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

68deville

usualstripes wrote: »

Interesting articles from nick brennan, dj Carey and brian cody in the last couple of days.
Carey and Brennan going on the basis that a lot of young lads blooded very quickly and might need a year or two to adjust. Cody stating he has a wealth of young lads between u21s and college's players around the county.
It's time to row in behind the lads and get the numbers to nowlan park tomorrow, whatever the weather. These lads need support and we need to give it to them.
Colin fennelly will add some impetus and all that is needed is a full on commitment for the 70 plus minutes. Hopefully a win and whats as important is the performance.

Well Cody is hardly going to say anything else is he?? I'm sure any inter county
Manager managing their native county isn't going to run down the the situation in fairness or be completely blunt in an interview?

kk.man

This match will tell us exactly where we are. Apart from the obvious (defeat is a certain demotion). Cork wouldn't be in a great place at the moment so I think this match is the best barometer of where we are.

On another subject I was just thinking when did KK play in the second division (i know its not called that now) but I guess it was 35 odd years ago? Almost every hurling county has being demoted in that time including Kerry footballers. There is 1a and 1b now but ya what I mean.

brookville

It's a hugely important game today cork have excellent forwards if there let play but I'd be hopefull you'll see a response from our players if we could win today and beat dublin we should get avoid a relegation playoff.
The league has being very inconsistent but maybe we're not giving dublin enough credit for beating cork.I think ger cunningham will be happy enough with his teams last two performances considering who their missing
Just on today's team im suprised buckley hasnt being tried at 6 and the number 5 might suit cleere better

Ompala

kk.man wrote: »

This match will tell us exactly where we are. Apart from the obvious (defeat is a certain demotion). Cork wouldn't be in a great place at the moment so I think this match is the best barometer of where we are.

On another subject I was just thinking when did KK play in the second division (i know its not called that now) but I guess it was 35 odd years ago? Almost every hurling county has being demoted in that time including Kerry footballers. There is 1a and 1b now but ya what I mean.[/QUOTE]

I am open to correction, but I think Tipp and KK are the only 2 counties that have never been relegated from division 1.

Powerhouse

kk.man wrote: »

This match will tell us exactly where we are. Apart from the obvious (defeat is a certain demotion). Cork wouldn't be in a great place at the moment so I think this match is the best barometer of where we are.

On another subject I was just thinking when did KK play in the second division (i know its not called that now) but I guess it was 35 odd years ago? Almost every hurling county has being demoted in that time including Kerry footballers. There is 1a and 1b now but ya what I mean.

You have a short memory. Kilkenny played in the second tier in 1993-94. I have no recollection of Tipperary playing in the second tier since then - you could be going back 30 years for that. Cork were last there in 1997 I think. I'd say there are no constants in the top division since. Kilkenny also finished bottom of their group in 1998 but were spared relegation because the format changed for the following season.

I doubt Kilkenny will drop this time either. They should beat Cork for starters.

Stopitwillya

68deville wrote: »

Well Cody is hardly going to say anything else is he?? I'm sure any inter county
Manager managing their native county isn't going to run down the the situation in fairness or be completely blunt in an interview?

You obviously never read any of Derek McGraths interviews then. Winning an all ireland under 21 is like winning the Vauxhall conference is one of the beauty's he has come out with. His interviews are nearly as negative as the ****e brand of hurling he has us playing.

Kilkenny to hammer Cork today, be there or thereabouts come September and win the under 21 all ireland this year. Ye have nowt to worry about, even if the rest of us would love if ye were really in trouble.

dastardly00

Powerhouse wrote: »

You have a short memory. Kilkenny played in the second tier in 1993-94.

I dunno how you can say that he has a short memory... it was over 20 years ago!

windy shepard henderson

expect a back lash today form the cats , cody had a smile on his face near the end of the clare match which was very similar to the one he had on during john mullhalls version of "hon the super cats" at the 2011 home coming ,

the wether conditions will probably take the good out of both televised games today though

dastardly00

Halfway through the first half and nothing too inspiring from us so far...

Powerhouse

dastardly00 wrote: »

I dunno how you can say that he has a short memory... it was over 20 years ago!

Fair point! Although when he was referring back 35 years himself I kind of assumed he was an ould lad.

unrealtime

Cody needs to get a grip. This is dire.

dzer2

unrealtime wrote: »

Cody needs to get a grip. This is dire.

He did

unrealtime

Better second half but not great. No obvious players coming through. Deegan put in a good stint and got it tough too. Still entirely rely on the old warriors though

Topcat32

unrealtime wrote: »

Better second half but not great. No obvious players coming through. Deegan put in a good stint and got it tough too. Still entirely rely on the old warriors though

I think Richie Leahy looks like a great prospect.

usualstripes

A lot better showing today, particularly for the 1st 15 mins of the 2nd half. Still think conor o shea is not the answer. Cleere did ok for his 1st outing. Deganwy poor but did come into it in the last 20 mins. Conor Fogarty very good. Colin fennelly got through a hell of a lot of work and was a threat. Walter did well and Richie hogan good today. TJ found more space today. Leahy a lot better but conor martin doesn't seem to be strong enough. All in all a lot better showing and in fairness the lads created a lot more space. Big test next Saturday evening in Thurles but this performance will give the lads a lift. Need to create more in the full forward line.

brookville

usualstripes wrote: »

A lot better showing today, particularly for the 1st 15 mins of the 2nd half. Still think conor o shea is not the answer. Cleere did ok for his 1st outing. Deganwy poor but did come into it in the last 20 mins. Conor Fogarty very good. Colin fennelly got through a hell of a lot of work and was a threat. Walter did well and Richie hogan good today. TJ found more space today. Leahy a lot better but conor martin doesn't seem to be strong enough. All in all a lot better showing and in fairness the lads created a lot more space. Big test next Saturday evening in Thurles but this performance will give the lads a lift. Need to create more in the full forward line.

Hard to disagree with this we'll have to be patient with cleere I wouldn't be critical of him. I thought conor o shea did ok when he went off cadogan but i dont think his the awnser.colin fennelly was very good and created two good goal chances richie leahy looked good and fogarty was probably my mom

JJs Left Hand

Jesus Cork are pathetic. Completely downed tools after 5/10 minutes of the 2nd half.

I don't know how it's happened but we've ended up with a lot of players who aren't playing the game in front of them. Even someone like Buckley thinks a ball lobbed in on top of a full forward and a full back is a good ball into a forward line when there is space either side. Even when we do go crossfield the weight on the ball is all wrong so instead of the ball bouncing into the space for a forward to run on to its still a 50/50 ball between the forward and back the only change is the angle of delivery.

Also how easy is it for a team to pull us out of shape. For the first 15 minutes Corks half forward line stood in midfield and our half back line followed them leaving 50 yards of grass in front of our full back line. Our forwards werent closing the puck outs down well enough so the ball was getting pumped in front of Lehane for that period. We got to grips with it but I think that was as much to do with Cork as us.

Fogarty was good but don't understand the logic of him and Buckley swapping places.

All in all I thought we were pretty poor for the most part but on the brightside at least we're not Cork.

mullinr2

I'm afraid for us going to Semple next week. Tipp could do to us what we did to them in 09 league. They're too far ahead

usualstripes

mullinr2 wrote: »

I'm afraid for us going to Semple next week. Tipp could do to us what we did to them in 09 league. They're too far ahead

I understand that you are afraid going to semple next Saturday but look at game today.
On the negative side we did give cork an awful lot of space on our half back line but we have to learn our lesson here. Also our 1st touch is still not what it will be or should be.
On the positive side our forwards were pulling their backs around but aside from fennellys two chances we didn't create any goal chances.
A team is only as strong as it's weakest link and unfortunately o shea, deegan and conor martin were found wantin today. Deegan did come into the game but only when we had a lot of space around the middle in the last 20 mins.
Evan cody had a rough day v clare but could get another chance in at no. 4. My personal choice here would be conor delaney or at least someone who is up with his man coming out to the ball. When we give away cheap scores it's disheartening for the team.

My team v tipp:

E Murphy
P Murphy
P Walsh
C Delaney
C Fogarty
J Cleere
K Joyce
R Hogan
C Buckley
TJ Reid
C Fennelly
R Leahy
W Walsh
L Blanchfield
J Maher

This takes into consideration lester is still recovering and Pat lyng injured.
Any reason why ger aylward is not on the panel the last few weeks and is john walsh going to come onto the matchday panel?

mullinr2

usualstripes wrote: »

I understand that you are afraid going to semple next Saturday but look at game today.
On the negative side we did give cork an awful lot of space on our half back line but we have to learn our lesson here. Also our 1st touch is still not what it will be or should be.
On the positive side our forwards were pulling their backs around but aside from fennellys two chances we didn't create any goal chances.
A team is only as strong as it's weakest link and unfortunately o shea, deegan and conor martin were found wantin today. Deegan did come into the game but only when we had a lot of space around the middle in the last 20 mins.
Evan cody had a rough day v clare but could get another chance in at no. 4. My personal choice here would be conor delaney or at least someone who is up with his man coming out to the ball. When we give away cheap scores it's disheartening for the team.

My team v tipp:

E Murphy
P Murphy
P Walsh
C Delaney
C Fogarty
J Cleere
K Joyce
R Hogan
C Buckley
TJ Reid
C Fennelly
R Leahy
W Walsh
L Blanchfield
J Maher

This takes into consideration lester is still recovering and Pat lyng injured.
Any reason why ger aylward is not on the panel the last few weeks and is john walsh going to come onto the matchday panel?

I mentioned on here after the Clare game, that apparently there was discipline issues with Ger Alyward. Two sources told me at the Clare game. Maybe that's why we haven't seen him.

Topcat32

mullinr2 wrote: »

I'm afraid for us going to Semple next week. Tipp could do to us what we did to them in 09 league. They're too far ahead

Didnt do Tipp any harm in the end, they are a good bit ahead at the moment but id prefer to stay positive and look at it as a great test for the team and a good learning experience for the younger lads on the team.

Topcat32

mullinr2 wrote: »

I mentioned on here after the Clare game, that apparently there was discipline issues with Ger Alyward. Two sources told me at the Clare game. Maybe that's why we haven't seen him.

Saying that based on hearsay is pretty poor.

brookville

mullinr2 wrote: »

I mentioned on here after the Clare game, that apparently there was discipline issues with Ger Alyward. Two sources told me at the Clare game. Maybe that's why we haven't seen him.

I too heard his dropped from the panel but a few people have said it's not true and he had a set back with his injury.

Dionysis

Today's game was very poor from both a KK and cork point of view.

JaffaP

Dionysis wrote: »

Today's game was very poor from both a KK and cork point of view.

True enough, a pretty awful spectacle.

Conor O'Shea is light years away from being an intercounty hurler. Leahy is a nice hurler, but you'd worry about him in a full blooded championship game. He's very light.

Dionysis

KK were very average, no point in commenting on the seasoned players as we know their capabilities at this stage but suffice to say that the whole team were more than willing to play the game a yard behind their man. Yes they were not as fit, but that wouldn't have made a difference here.
To comment on the younger lads and to be honest taking into account that no-one goes out to play poorly:
Conor O Shea - simply speed of movement, both swinging and pace as well as reading of the game so that he can judge where to be to allow for his lack of pace is simply not up to intercounty standard. Played the whole game a yard behind his man.
Cleere- DId not even try to command his position, should be at least trying to impose himself even if not successful. But it's his first game, so let's persist with him further.
Deegan - Drove me demented watching him. Looking to hang free all day and get lose ball. Playerd in to Corks hands all day. It's his first game but would think his midfield style cannot be adjusted enough to make him an intercounty player. Ollie Walsh still way better.
Leahy - Has ability but is far to willing to let his man win the ball. No point running chasing you man half way back the pitch showing that your willing to put the yardage in when your after hardly contesting the ball In the first place letting you man win it easily. ( Blanchfield is a divil for this and he's fooling no-one) Has talent but needs to be pushed to use it.
Conor Martin - reminds me of Taggy fogarty when he started out. Could put the ball over the bar from anywhere, when in his hand. But winning it is the issue. Today he got loads of ball and left his man take it off him. Was poor today.

These young lads need to develop some drive cos it's just not there. You get the feeling that they feel, so what, Cody needs me, more than I need to impress him. Nobody is out there trying to impress which is very worrying. They don't feel the need. Cody needs to take these guys aside and push them like Davy Fitz would. A few hard months of early morning mountain running would stand to some of these young lads.

usualstripes

JaffaP wrote: »

True enough, a pretty awful spectacle.

Conor O'Shea is light years away from being an intercounty hurler. Leahy is a nice hurler, but you'd worry about him in a full blooded championship game. He's very light.

Agree re conor o shea. Fine hurler but not at this level. Surely conor delaney is worth a shot corner back. If we had lester back we would have more strength in the middle. Big test next week but it's one that we should look forward to. Possibility of playing wexford in the quarter final of the league if we beat dublin in the last league match and other results go as expected. I still think we can cause tipp a few headaches if we up our game again next Saturday evening but we do need to keep improving and stay as tight as possible against tipp. I would certainly think we are going to be under pressure but our backs need to be as competitive as possible and midfielders need to be strong towards oncoming attacks. This means we can't be 6 yards behind tipp forwards giving them easy scores. Also we cannot be turned in our full back line happened today with o shea when there seemed to be no danger

Topcat32

Dionysis wrote: »

KK were very average, no point in commenting on the seasoned players as we know their capabilities at this stage but suffice to say that the whole team were more than willing to play the game a yard behind their man. Yes they were not as fit, but that wouldn't have made a difference here.
To comment on the younger lads and to be honest taking into account that no-one goes out to play poorly:
Conor O Shea - simply speed of movement, both swinging and pace as well as reading of the game so that he can judge where to be to allow for his lack of pace is simply not up to intercounty standard. Played the whole game a yard behind his man.
Cleere- DId not even try to command his position, should be at least trying to impose himself even if not successful. But it's his first game, so let's persist with him further.
Deegan - Drove me demented watching him. Looking to hang free all day and get lose ball. Playerd in to Corks hands all day. It's his first game but would think his midfield style cannot be adjusted enough to make him an intercounty player. Ollie Walsh still way better.
Leahy - Has ability but is far to willing to let his man win the ball. No point running chasing you man half way back the pitch showing that your willing to put the yardage in when your after hardly contesting the ball In the first place letting you man win it easily. ( Blanchfield is a divil for this and he's fooling no-one) Has talent but needs to be pushed to use it.
Conor Martin - reminds me of Taggy fogarty when he started out. Could put the ball over the bar from anywhere, when in his hand. But winning it is the issue. Today he got loads of ball and left his man take it off him. Was poor today.

These young lads need to develop some drive cos it's just not there. You get the feeling that they feel, so what, Cody needs me, more than I need to impress him. Nobody is out there trying to impress which is very worrying. They don't feel the need. Cody needs to take these guys aside and push them like Davy Fitz would. A few hard months of early morning mountain running would stand to some of these young lads.

If you are going to point out the negative points isnt it fair to point out the good things they did too, no mention of leahy's 3 points for instance, also cant remember Taggy ever finding it hard to win ball.

dubcat51

Overall today we did well. martin and deegan not up to this level.have never seen anything in martin baffles me how he is there ahead of bolger and john walsh.murphy much better in the corner and colin gave us pace up front.Im looking forward to next week to see what team we send out and how they front up.

thebigmann

Topcat32 wrote: »

If you are going to point out the negative points isnt it fair to point out the good things they did too, no mention of leahy's 3 points for instance, also cant remember Taggy ever finding it hard to win ball.

Plus not a mention of any fields he made

Dionysis

Topcat32 wrote: »

If you are going to point out the negative points isnt it fair to point out the good things they did too, no mention of leahy's 3 points for instance, also cant remember Taggy ever finding it hard to win ball.

Well if you were watching KK in the flesh back in 2006 in the league you would have seen very clearly taggys inability to win ball.
Granted his attitude/ability changed 180degrees, but he was poor back in those days.

Topcat32

Dionysis wrote: »

Well if you were watching KK in the flesh back in 2006 in the league you would have seen very clearly taggys inability to win ball.
Granted his attitude/ability changed 180degrees, but he was poor back in those days.

He was on the panel a couple of years by then. I just disagree with you that he had an attitude problem, the only problem I saw was that he was awkward at times.

Dionysis

Topcat32 wrote: »

He was on the panel a couple of years by then. I just disagree with you that he had an attitude problem, the only problem I saw was that he was awkward at times.

I remember him vs limerick in the league back then, pretty much lost every ball that came his way bar two or three. One of these was between the 21 and end line beside the side line, while being marked one turn strike, point. Had that ability to score from anywhere. Conor Martin has that, but like Taggy of back then losses far too much ball.

dastardly00

It must be a long time since we went 3 games (League and/or Championship) without scoring a goal.

Colin Fennelly was the only goal threat today. He's great when he gets the ball about 40 yards out and runs towards the goal. Unfortunately his striking hasn't improved (yet again) over the winter.

usualstripes

dastardly00 wrote: »

It must be a long time since we went 3 games (League and/or Championship) without scoring a goal.

Colin Fennelly was the only goal threat today. He's great when he gets the ball about 40 yards out and runs towards the goal. Unfortunately his striking hasn't improved (yet again) over the winter.

The goals will come.
The game today will give the lads a little more confidence and the know they need to step up next weekend.
We know we need to sort out no.4 and midfield but james maher along with leahy will improve with more games. Aylward will be back that will add to the options. Hopefully lester won't be too long out but thr prize at the moment is to get to a quarter final of the league, more games and they will come a long way.

dastardly00

usualstripes wrote: »

The goals will come.

Based on what evidence?

usualstripes

dastardly00 wrote: »

Based on what evidence?

Based on the premise that the new forwards need time to work together and Colin fennelly was a big addition today. They will work better as time goes on.We have been unfortunate with injuries to key players.

FrankCummins

Who is the person that works with the subs when they are doing there exercises on the sideline to day.

Village87

TJ and Richie outstanding, the difference really.

Cork could have had 3 goals if more clinical before Kilkenny pulled away

Noddy33

Two points on the board but no point in getting carried away as that was a brutal Cork team and we wont beat Tipp this weekend if we dont improve much more again and need to score goals which is the big worry. Cork did cause us problems when they ran at us in packs at speed and if they had some better forwards we would have been in trouble. Also somewhat suprised at the small attendance yesterday. I know the weather was bitter cold but are KK supporters losing faith now.....
Murphy-Descision Making, Distribution and shot stopping top notch.By far the best all round keeper around
P-Murphy- A lot better in the corner but still a good bit off the extreme high standards he no doubt sets himself
Walsh- Very good again other than 1 or 2 frees he gave away. Iv no doubt it not his favorite  position but he taking one for the team and for the moment will be kept there for the good of the team
O'Shea- He a good hurler but not an inter county corner back. Slow and sluggish at times but did improve as the game went by. Dont think he is helped by not having a settled position with club or county and constantly changes between defence and attack
Fogarty- IMO my Man of the Match. Brilliant throughout
Cleere- Decent first showing. Got blocked down twice trying to clear the ball within dangerous areas but will learn and can be happy. Done enough to deserve a start again for Tipp game
Joyce/Pender- Joyce was going reasonable well until injury. Thought Pender did well when introduced too
Buckley- Still prefer to see him at Left half back as he one of the best in the business. But he getting better at midfield with each game. Suprisingly for him tho his first touch wasnt great again today
Deegan- Far from the finished article but works hard. Still too reliant on his Left hand side, At one stage in second half he picked the ball up in the middle and all he had to do was turn to his right and flick ball to Richie Hogan who was in acres of space. But instead cut back in on favoured left towards 3 cork defenders and fortunately was able to find TJ with a hand pass who then then hit the 20yard pass to Hogan to put over the bar for his 4th point. 
Leahy- took his scores well and seems to fitting well in to the team
TJ- Looked Sharp and did alot of the graft for others to score. Still not dominating the aerial balls like he did in 2015
Fennelly- Worked his socks and looked our best bet for a goal.First game back so sharpness should improve but he made a big difference to the team today
Hogan- Made the right decisions to take the available scores when given the ball. Class act that just makes it look so easy
Wally- Took his point well but I still prefer to see out on the wing. He is wasted when in on the full forward line
Martin- He actually has good wrists and stick work.However he couldnt win any of the 50/50 balls and was out muscled alot. I have seen get some great scores for Emeralds but Jury still out on whether he good enough for this level....

Ceist_Beag

I thought it was an enjoyable match up until about 50 minutes after which Cork just completely capitulated. First half the backs were way off their men, Conor O'Shea especially had a nightmare. Second half was a different story. Plenty of comments on individual performances but one thing that stood out for me, especially in the first half were the puck outs from Nash. Jesus but they were good. He's like Cluxton in the football. Admittedly the KK backs were slow to react to the runs in the Cork half forward line but all the same, every single ball from Nash was on the money. Second half he struggled a bit when KK tightened up.

danganabu

dastardly00 wrote: »

Colin Fennelly was the only goal threat today. He's great when he gets the ball about 40 yards out and runs towards the goal. Unfortunately his striking hasn't improved (yet again) over the winter.

Jaysus he has an awful swing for a player at inter-county level, still a real handful on a going day though.

dastardly00

A few basic stats collected from the first three rounds...

v3ttel

Although Cork are poor, I thought the second half was much better yesterday.

Leahy took his scores well, fielded some good high ball and looks like he'll be a very good player as he develops. Conor Martin was quiet but he did alright. He had one nice point from play, and was in very hard luck not to get another two, and was fouled for at least one easy free for TJ. That's fine for a first league outing. Cleere was solid without being involved too much, he is one that will definitely improve.

Conor O'Shea reminds me of Conor Fogarty. I remember when he broke into the team first, he was roasted at corner back in Tullamore against Dublin, always behind his man going for the ball. O'Shea had a ropey first 25 minutes, but after that he grew into the game. I think he would be better further out the field with his size. I don't agree with others that says he's not an inter-county player, he needs more chances and is capable I think. He just seemed nervous at the start of the game.

I don't know much about Paddy Deegan, he seemed to be fouled a lot, primarily because he always turns back into trouble. He could have taken a few scores but didn't seem capable of taking long range scores on his right.

I'd really like to see Alyward, Scanlon, Lennon, John Walsh, Bolger, Alan Murphy (out the field), Maher get their chance. Those lads have plenty of talent.

Lastly, Conor Fogarty was brilliant yesterday, Colin Fennelly looked fresh, and Richie Hogan was much more influential out the field.

jeff bingham

Haven't seen it mentioned but Ryan Bergin is another who was called into senior panel recently

usualstripes

Conor O'Shea reminds me of Conor Fogarty. I remember when he broke into the team first, he was roasted at corner back in Tullamore against Dublin, always behind his man going for the ball. O'Shea had a ropey first 25 minutes, but after that he grew into the game. I think he would be better further out the field with his size. I don't agree with others that says he's not an inter-county player, he needs more chances and is capable I think. He just seemed nervous at the start of the game.

O shea grew into the game as he was a spare man at times. He does seem nervous but if you look at the mistakes made and the fact that he is not near quick enough out with his marker it makes it difficult to see how he can step up. His awareness is not good enough. If you are 5-10 yards behind your man before the ball comes in then you have problems straight away. As I said previously he is a fine hurler but I don't think he has the necessary speed or awareness for this level. Would love to be proved wrong here but too many cheap scores come from him.

dubcat51

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I thought it was an enjoyable match up until about 50 minutes after which Cork just completely capitulated. First half the backs were way off their men, Conor O'Shea especially had a nightmare. Second half was a different story. Plenty of comments on individual performances but one thing that stood out for me, especially in the first half were the puck outs from Nash. Jesus but they were good. He's like Cluxton in the football. Admittedly the KK backs were slow to react to the runs in the Cork half forward line but all the same, every single ball from Nash was on the money. Second half he struggled a bit when KK tightened up.

Dublin shut down his puck outs and scored at least 3pts from them.really demoralised cork.

dubcat51

Anyone know of rumours that john dalton has been asked into the panel.also whatever happened to paady hogan.remember him as a half back v tipp in 09 u21 final he was outstanding.

Village87

dubcat51 wrote: »

Anyone know of rumours that john dalton has been asked into the panel.also whatever happened to paady hogan.remember him as a half back v tipp in 09 u21 final he was outstanding.

I heard similar rumors about Pat Hartley last year after the first 3 club matches. Although Dalton would be a great addition i don't think Brian will be calling a player that is turning 32 back in soon.

Paddy Hogan still playing great stuff for his club. Paddy was on the panel for a good few years

FrankCummins

Did John Dalton not leave the panel himself, Paddy Hogan got chances but didn't take them.