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Lease issue - don't want to sign

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  • 25-11-2015 2:47pm
    #1
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭


    Hi
    I'm trying to help my daughter here with landlord/lease issues.
    She has been in an apartment since the beginning of July without a lease - she asked for one when she moved in at the beginning of July, but none was forthcoming. Anyway a couple of months ago the landlord decided to increase the rent and at the same time wanted the four girls to sign new leases ( he actually wanted them to renew them, but as none of them were on a lease, obviously that wasn't possible).
    My daughter doesn't want to sign the lease as there are numerous issues and she would like to leave when she eventually finds somewhere else. One of these issues is that one of the girls has brought in a succession of animals (a rabbit, several foster cats, foster puppies) and has now brought in a big dog permanently. The lease says no pets without the landlord's permission, so in signing the lease with a dog already there, my daughter would be in the wrong also. The lease also has the names of the four former tenants on it, although the signing page has the correct names on it, so again, it would be stupid for someone to sign it, as far as I can tell.

    The other girls are pressuring my daughter to sign the lease, saying that if she does not, it is in effect, her 28 days notice and that she will have to leave at the end of December
    ( she has already paid December's rent.)
    I'm sure that I read somewhere that she is not legally obliged to sign a lease, and she really doesn't want to sign her name to it given the above issues.
    If she stays until the end of December she will have been there for 6 months anyway, and will have part 4 rights, but I don't know if that will improve the situation.
    Am I right in thinking that if she contacted the landlord's agent herself and asked if she could continue on as she is but the other three girls signed the lease she would in effect become their licensee and they could turn around and evict her at will?


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    #2
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭whippet


    so she wants to be a tenant with all the rights of a tenant and none of the responsibilities of a tenant?


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    #3
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭twiglet24


    She would happily take on the responsibilities of a tenant, if it was a better situation! She is in a room with no window, there is no heating in the apartment (waiting more than a month for it to be seen to!), in a situation where if she signs a lease where she knows some of the conditions are already being broken, she is going to be held liable for something she had no part in doing. ( Dog).
    She has been looking for somewhere else to live for a couple of months, and has applied to somewhere in the region of 20 places, and been to 7 viewings. She is a postgrad student living with 3 undergrads and is unhappy and sick all the time.
    All she wants is to be settled somewhere and to have a proper lease - yes with all the responsibilities that come with it!
    This place is a classic case of a landlord taking advantage though and she wants to leave, but cannot give notice as it is impossible to find somewhere else.


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    #4
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    If they are there since July they cant have a rent increase till next july


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    #5
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭whippet


    she can sign a lease and make note of all the conditions you are mentioning on the lease, also the PRTB is there for such cases and even if the tenancy isn't registered she can avail of their services.

    Ignoring the landlord and not co-operating is of no help to her.


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    #6
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭twiglet24


    ted1 wrote: »
    If they are there since July they cant have a rent increase till next july

    One of the girls had been there since the previous September, so the landlord based it off the previous lease. We did try to dispute it, but three of the girls were happy to accept a 50 euro per person increase instead of a 100 euro increase. Since they all took rooms at different times it was a bit complicated.


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    #7
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭twiglet24


    whippet wrote: »
    she can sign a lease and make note of all the conditions you are mentioning on the lease, also the PRTB is there for such cases and even if the tenancy isn't registered she can avail of their services.

    Ignoring the landlord and not co-operating is of no help to her.

    It looks like she will have to sign the lease - once she gets a copy with the correct dates and names on it, but not sure how she can make note of the issue with the dog without landing the other housemates in it.
    The tenancy is not registered, but the other girls don't want to make waves - particularly the one with the dog!
    Would a lease that she signed knowing that some of the covenants were already being broken be legal?


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    #8
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The part 4 means that her lease automatically renews. She doesn't have a lease so she can't claim part 4.
    She's really looking to have her cake & eat it too.


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    #9
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Why doesn't she tell the landlord about the animals?


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    #10
    sKeith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    Send the lease back and ask that they remove the clause regarding having no animals before she will sign it.


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    #11
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    A house share situation where everyone is on the one lease but moved in at different times seems really strange to me. Did she know the people she lives with prior to moving in?


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    #12
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭twiglet24


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »
    A house share situation where everyone is on the one lease but moved in at different times seems really strange to me. Did she know the people she lives with prior to moving in?

    She knew one of them. That girl had moved in with three others (all students) who left at different times, so then they got other students to take the rooms. She knew my daughter was looking for somewhere and asked her if she would be interested in taking a room as two of the girls had decided to leave early and the landlord was annoyed and had told her she would be liable for all their rent if she didn't fill the rooms. Seemed a bit off to us at the time, but it meant that she (our daughter) could avoid the stress of house hunting, so ...
    Little did we know that my daughter's friend didn't even have her name on the lease!


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    #13
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    twiglet24 wrote: »
    She knew one of them. That girl had moved in with three others (all students) who left at different times, so then they got other students to take the rooms. She knew my daughter was looking for somewhere and asked her if she would be interested in taking a room as two of the girls had decided to leave early and the landlord was annoyed and had told her she would be liable for all their rent if she didn't fill the rooms. Seemed a bit off to us at the time, but it meant that she (our daughter) could avoid the stress of house hunting, so ...
    Little did we know that my daughter's friend didn't even have her name on the lease!

    I guess that's not a particularly uncommon situation.

    I would strongly advise her to not sign the new lease and move out asap.

    Co-signing a lease in that way is stating that you trust the other people on it to adhere to it and if they don't you are personally liable. Since they are already breaking it by having a dog in the house then who knows what other damage they could do in the next year, all of which your daughter will be liable for. Especially since one of the other tenants is prone to bringing home random animals.

    There is also the extremely common situation where one person bails on the new lease before it's up, leaving your daughter in the same situation her friend was in where she needs to find someone to fill the spot or help cover that persons rent herself.

    I know rent is expensive at the moment so finding a new place is hard, but staying put could end up costing her an awful lot more in the long run.


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    #14
    twiglet24
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭twiglet24


    @ Tiddlypeeps - that was the plan, but it appears no-one wants a 21 year old (almost 22!) postgrad with no work reference and previous landlord reference is from on campus accommodation.
    We are paying her rent and have upped our budget considerably, but the private rental market is not working.
    She was trying to move on from student accommodation as she likes a quieter environment.
    Also, she is studying to become a member of the legal profession - it doesn't sit well to sign the lease under those circumstances.


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    #15
    beyondbelief67
    Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭beyondbelief67


    I think I remember you posting about this landlord before, isn't your daughter living in what was originally a 2 bed apartment turned into a 4 bed?
    It sounds like wherever she rented would be an improvement on the place she is in!
    I don't advise her signing the lease especially with the dog there.
    She might not want student accommodation but really wouldn't anything be better than nothing?
    Some often drop out at Christmas so if she contacts students union she may get lucky, good luck.


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,423 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    twiglet24 wrote: »
    She is in a room with no window
    I'm not sure this is legal. She has a big problem if there is a fire.


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    #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I would pass on the details of the apartment and location to your local building control department.

    You cannot change a 2 bed into a 4 bed without proper planning, fire safety very and DAC.
    No window in the room means it's a non habitable room and your daughter SHOULD NOT be sleeping in there!


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    #18
    Diamond Doll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭Diamond Doll


    twiglet24 wrote: »
    @ Tiddlypeeps - that was the plan, but it appears no-one wants a 21 year old (almost 22!) postgrad with no work reference and previous landlord reference is from on campus accommodation.
    We are paying her rent and have upped our budget considerably, but the private rental market is not working.
    She was trying to move on from student accommodation as she likes a quieter environment.
    Also, she is studying to become a member of the legal profession - it doesn't sit well to sign the lease under those circumstances.

    The main problem is obviously the lack of work reference, she'll find it practically impossible to find a place without proof she can pay the rent. It may help if you provide a work reference (or proof of means) for yourself and/or her father, along with a signed letter that you are taking on the responsibility of paying her rent.

    The fact that her previous landlord reference is from campus accommodation shouldn't matter.

    I think she should refuse to sign the lease, and plan to move out at the end of December as suggested. Even if she does end up having to go back to student accommodation, even short-term, it sounds better than the current situation.


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    #19
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    I took a lad with no references, he's worked out brilliantly. I didn't care about references as I live there. I had almost 1000 views on Daft, maybe 100 calls and emails, and wait for it... 2 show up to view. Housing crisis my foot.

    People are being too picky and not looking into the burbs with DART access. The amount of people that won't live with an owner occupier couple - how many people here complaina about the nut job fellow tenants?


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    #20
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The part 4 means that her lease automatically renews. She doesn't have a lease so she can't claim part 4.
    She's really looking to have her cake & eat it too.
    Just need to point out that the above, with all due respect, is totally wrong, a lease can only add extra rights to the standard rights given by law. Part 4 is automatic once you're there 6 months, nothing to do with a lease.

    OP sounds like the house is a disaster and she really would be best getting out of there, even if this awkward.


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    #21
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The part 4 means that her lease automatically renews. She doesn't have a lease so she can't claim part 4.
    She's really looking to have her cake & eat it too.

    Posts like this prove why you need to take a lot of what you read on the internet with a hefty pinch of salt.


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    #22
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    twiglet24 wrote: »
    She is in a room with no window
    Is it under a stairs by any chance?


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    #23
    jeamimus
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭jeamimus


    Get real, the place isn't suitable or safe for her to live in. The last thing she should do is take a lease on it.

    As you're paying the rent, maybe the best thing is that you sign the lease next time on her behalf. A landlord would be more receptive to you than a 21 year old with no income and no history.


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    #24
    Butters1979
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    Diamond Doll wrote: »
    The main problem is obviously the lack of work reference, she'll find it practically impossible to find a place without proof she can pay the rent.

    If the parents are paying the rent surely a landlord would be happy with the parents work reference. I would be.

    That however is not the main problem.

    To OP, the lease is dodgy as she is already breaking it, if she signs it she will be putting herself at risk. Also a bedroom with no window is a red flag. I know options might be limited but i would not live in that situation. I also assume the property isn't registered?


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    #25
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,967 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    jeamimus wrote: »
    As you're paying the rent, maybe the best thing is that you sign the lease next time on her behalf. A landlord would be more receptive to you than a 21 year old with no income and no history.

    As a LL, I wouldn't be.

    References are only partly about ability to pay the rent. They're also about character and maturity and behaviour.

    Unless the parent is actually living in the place, they're not there to supervise the behaviour. If the kid doesn't sign the lease, they won't appreciate that you're giving the the use of an asset worth 00's of thousands and that they're responsible for looking after it.


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