Ballycotton 10 - Sunday March 6th 2016

amcgee

its the same every year with regard to t-shirts for the first 100 runners.

its a no win situation for the organisers. if they did top 50 each, the logistics of managing it would make it tough to manage, and probably not worth while doing

equal opportunity for all sexes to get a top 100 t shirst.


their is a bit of unfairness in it, true, but its a brilliant race, so lets think of the positives of it.

good to get a mug for us people who will never get the t-shirts

just wondering if you get the t-shirt ..do you still get the mug?

demfad

adrian522 wrote: »

I find it strange that you can finish 99th in the mens race and get a T-shirt, yet finish 2nd in the womens race and not get one.

Have to agree with that. It's certainly not fair. I remember running the Streets of Galway 8k on it's 25th anniversary and finishing 27th. If they had allocated only to the absolute top 25 then only two women (Maria McCambridge, Siobhan O'Doherty) would have won a T-Shirt. There would have been the ludicrous situation of fine elite sub 28 min runs by the likes of Rosemary Ryan and Patrycja Wlodarczyk not being rewarded. But hey, this would have been Ok because this would have been the "opposite of Sexism" apparently!

Luckily a sense of fairness prevailed in that most open minded of Irish cities, and those deserving of T-shirts got them (including myself )

Another anecdote that comes to mind is the inaugural Warriors run where no prizes AT ALL were awarded to females. I don't think the first female across the line who travelled all the way from Kerry to Sligo an back was too impressed but it was all OK, it was actually the opposite of sexism: After all the first few people across the line were awarded prizes.

Ballycotton can issue their T Shirts anyway they like. Nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious, that 50/50 would be fairer.

tang1

Tshirts are for the Top 100, the whole sexist thing isn't a factor in that decision made by the organisers. If your good enough to place in the top 100 be male or female you get a tshirt. It's about how good a runner you are not what sex you are.

Gavlor

Some pile of nonsense being posted on this thread.

Top 100 is a fairly neutral, all encompassing range.

Why not have a separate race for women in the Saturday and give them a top 100 shirt too?!

PC gone mad.

Krusty_Clown

demfad wrote: »

Ballycotton can issue their T Shirts anyway they like. Nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious, that 50/50 would be fairer.

By that logic, 'A grades' in honours mathematics in the Leaving Certificate should be distributed evenly across both genders. That would be more fair.

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

By that logic, 'A grades' in honours mathematics in the Leaving Certificate should be distributed evenly across both genders. That would be more fair.

Would it be equally fair to abolish the gender divide in Olympic athletics, and give medals to the first 3 in each event instead of the first 3 men and first 3 women? Or should men be allowed to compete if they achieve the women's qualifying times?

Some things just can't be made "fair", no matter how hard we try.

adrian522

FBOT01 wrote: »

T-Shirt or no t-shirt this is a great event. Has become one my favourite events of the year. As always this year it was well organized, well managed and had a field with excellent depth. If you want to test yourself this is a great place to do it....male or female. Thanks to all involved. Hope to see you again same time same place next year!!

Agreed, its a great event, but on the organisational side I thought the bag drop was a bit messy this year, probably due to the weather.

It's something they will need to sort out for next year and I'm sure they will.

kkcatlou

aero2k wrote: »

Would it be equally fair to abolish the gender divide in Olympic athletics, and give medals to the first 3 in each event instead of the first 3 men and first 3 women? Or should men be allowed to compete if they achieve the women's qualifying times?

Some things just can't be made "fair", no matter how hard we try.

Exactly Aero2k, hate that I'm even having to get in on this debate! Science has proven for millions of years that men and women are physically different creatures, so saying that they can compete on an even platform is ludicrous. Really shocked at the amount of (I assume men!) on here in 2016 arguing that its sexist to offer females the same chance of acquiring a t-shirt as men!! No wonder running is still seen as elitist and intimidating to many females with this kind of attitude still prevalent! :eek:

kkcatlou

adrian522 wrote: »

Agreed, its a great event, but on the organisational side I thought the bag drop was a bit messy this year, probably due to the weather.

It's something they will need to sort out for next year and I'm sure they will.

Definitely agree! A 25 minute wait and then 10-15 minute delay for most people starting the race was madness (and cold), but given how great the event is, I'm sure they've already got a plan in place for next year. There's bound to be one glitch every few years!

average_runner

The things people are complaining about on this is pure stupid.

If you don't like the rules, then don't enter the race, simple as.
And if you really want a bloody a t-shirt I have loads at home, all different colors!!

At the end of the day, its your own run, your own time and no t-shirt will change that

kkcatlou

average_runner wrote: »

The things people are complaining about on this is pure stupid.

To be fair, this is a public forum for exactly that sort of thing. If you don't want to read complaints or take part in a discussion, boards.ie probably isn't the place for you!

I don't think anybody gives a sh1te about the actual t-shirt - it's more the lack of equal treatment of elite women (of which I will never be one!)

Ososlo

At least nobody's calling them 'LADIES'!!!!!!!

#makingprogress

average_runner

kkcatlou wrote: »

To be fair, this is a public forum for exactly that sort of thing. If you don't want to read complaints or take part in a discussion, boards.ie probably isn't the place for you!

I don't think anybody gives a sh1te about the actual t-shirt - it's more the lack of equal treatment of elite women (of which I will never be one!)

Considering the elite women would run between 54 - 57 min, they would have no problem getting into the top 100

adrian522

average_runner wrote: »

Considering the elite women would run between 54 - 57 min, they would have no problem getting into the top 100

You might want to take a look at the results. Aoife Cooke won the race with a time of 59:57.

demfad

average_runner wrote: »

The things people are complaining about on this is pure stupid.

If you don't like the rules, then don't enter the race, simple as.
And if you really want a bloody a t-shirt I have loads at home, all different colors!!

At the end of the day, its your own run, your own time and no t-shirt will change that

There's a new PR job going in Virgin Media I hear.......

lustformoney

demfad wrote: »

There's a new PR job going in Virgin Media I hear.......

Always thought you would be more of the Irish countrywomens association type,but havin read some of your posts lately you would be too much of an whinging oulwan for them.

Myles Splitz

FFS, Is there any bit of competitiveness still alive in modern day Ireland?

Why do standards need to be continually lowered for fear of offending people?

Token things like a top 100 t shirt are sweeter because of the effort put in to achieving this and probably even more so for women who become part of a relatively small group over the years to earn one of these.

We should be encouraging tougher standards not shying away, there are plenty of all inclusive "everyone is a winner" type races around these days to keep the odd event aimed at being competitive ( such as this, Charleville HM and Armagh 5k)

Look at the US and the Boston/US Olympic Trial qualifiers. They are a big deal to people and a tangible reward aside from a PB.

aero2k

Ososlo wrote: »

At least nobody's calling them 'LADIES'!!!!!!!

#makingprogress

I wouldn't dare to presume:), though I'm sure some of them are.

kkcatlou wrote: »

Exactly Aero2k, hate that I'm even having to get in on this debate! Science has proven for millions of years that men and women are physically different creatures, so saying that they can compete on an even platform is ludicrous. Really shocked at the amount of (I assume men!) on here in 2016 arguing that its sexist to offer females the same chance of acquiring a t-shirt as men!! No wonder running is still seen as elitist and intimidating to many females with this kind of attitude still prevalent! :eek:

I don't know what the right answer is - whether they should give t-shirts to a certain % of the finishers of each gender, or set a time cut-off. I haven't checked but I presume the women's prize list is the same as the men. it just seems logical to me to be consistent with allocation of t-shirts and prizes.

average_runner wrote: »

The things people are complaining about on this is pure stupid.

If you don't like the rules, then don't enter the race, simple as.
And if you really want a bloody a t-shirt I have loads at home, all different colors!!

At the end of the day, its your own run, your own time and no t-shirt will change that

I hope I didn't come across as complaining, I just wanted to present another point of view. I've never run this one but by all accounts it's a fantastic event.


Myles posted while I was composing my response, but judging by the results the t-shirts certainly didn't have a bad effect on the times - it must be the highest general standard of any 10 mile in Ireland.

davedanon

If it's discriminatory to women to offer t-shirts to the first 100, then it's certainly discriminatory to older runners as well. So that means we will need those 100 tees broken down by gender, and then into age groups, senior, master, 0-50, 0-60 etc etc. And what about disabled athletes, walkers even? What if the great Rob H turned up? How shameful would it be that a WORLD CHAMPION wasn't good enough for a mickey-mouse tee-shirt? These clowns really haven't thought through the dreadful ramifications of their appalling discrimination!!!

adrian522

aero2k wrote: »

I wouldn't dare to presume:), though I'm sure some of them are.



I don't know what the right answer is - whether they should give t-shirts to a certain % of the finishers of each gender, or set a time cut-off. I haven't checked but I presume the women's prize list is the same as the men. it just seems logical to me to be consistent with allocation of t-shirts and prizes.



I hope I didn't come across as complaining, I just wanted to present another point of view. I've never run this one but by all accounts it's a fantastic event.


Myles posted while I was composing my response, but judging by the results the t-shirts certainly didn't have a bad effect on the times - it must be the highest general standard of any 10 mile in Ireland.

The standard is incredible alright. Almost 100 runners sub 60 mins. And its probably even better most years given a lot of the elite runners didn't run this year.

aero2k

davedanon wrote: »

If it's discriminatory to women to offer t-shirts to the first 100, then it's certainly discriminatory to older runners as well. So that means we will need those 100 tees broken down by gender, and then into age groups, senior, master, 0-50, 0-60 etc etc. And what about disabled athletes, walkers even? What if the great Rob H turned up? How shameful would it be that a WORLD CHAMPION wasn't good enough for a mickey-mouse tee-shirt? These clowns really haven't thought through the dreadful ramifications of their appalling discrimination!!!

Believe me I was thinking the same thing as I posted - not that I'd ever play the age card, in case Chivito is watching:).

Look at the first M50 time though, and try not to weep.....

Chivito550

In no way should there be 50/50 splits on T-Shirts. The depth in women’s athletics is not anywhere near as strong as it is in men’s. To do so would actually be unfair. As has been pointed out the difference between world records is around 11-12%. When we start seeing differentials of 25% between the 100th man and the 100th woman then you know that men’s athletics is far more fiercely competitive.

It’s the same in track and field. There were 4 or 5 heats of the men’s 400m at Nationals last year. The women had a straight final. You basically just had to show up and sign your name and you were a national finalist!

You could split it 75/25 as a reflection of the wide gap between men’s and women’s athletics. Or better still, just leave it as it is, and whoever are the top 100 gets their t-shirt. Open for all!

demfad

davedanon wrote: »

If it's discriminatory to women to offer t-shirts to the first 100, then it's certainly discriminatory to older runners as well. So that means we will need those 100 tees broken down by gender, and then into age groups, senior, master, 0-50, 0-60 etc etc. And what about disabled athletes, walkers even? What if the great Rob H turned up? How shameful would it be that a WORLD CHAMPION wasn't good enough for a mickey-mouse tee-shirt? These clowns really haven't thought through the dreadful ramifications of their appalling discrimination!!!

Yes, the 99 deserving top men who got fast finishing T-Shirts included categories up to M55. Of the..... eh....one deserving top woman....obviously zero categories.

So yes, throwing in an extra 10 T-shirts for cat winners who didnt make it----nice gesture. Not exactly a big deal. And have the fast finishing T's split 50:50 instead of the 1:99. Only fair. Brings up the standard too.

davedanon

Maybe we should extend this concept to the wider world of athletics, and for instance handicap Kenyan long-distance runners who are after all operating with an unfair genetic heritage, not to mention black American and Jamaican sprinters who are more heavily-muscled than white athletes.

kkcatlou

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Look at the US and the Boston/US Olympic Trial qualifiers. They are a big deal to people and a tangible reward aside from a PB.

Which have different qualifying times for different genders.

Nobody is talking here about age, disability, race quotas, etc. just the same as is done in most other athletic events by having a women's entry and a men's entry. Surely it's not that big a deal as to garner the amount of debate this has!! :rolleyes:

Personally my aim in every race is to make the top 10% of women (I rarely make it). In 99% of sports we compete against those of the same gender, regardless of age, race, etc. so opening up that debate is just being ridiculous for the sake of it!

average_runner

adrian522 wrote: »

You might want to take a look at the results. Aoife Cooke won the race with a time of 59:57.

You may want to look at the results over the years, Maria McCambridge has a 54:XX, she is an elite

adrian522

average_runner wrote: »

You may want to look at the results over the years, Maria McCambridge has a 54:XX, she is an elite

I see, so you don't consider the race winner to be elite in that case? Fair enough.

average_runner

adrian522 wrote: »

I see, so you don't consider the race winner to be elite in that case? Fair enough.

I know nothing about Aoife except for her Novice Cross Country win.

Where does she rank in the country in the distances?
Will she be going to Rio?

Never said she wasn't an elite, just said what Maria did.

Jakey Rolling

kkcatlou wrote: »

Personally my aim in every race is to make the top 10% of women (I rarely make it).

Me too!
Pity that I'm actually an O45 male

ClashCityRocker

adrian522 wrote: »

The standard is incredible alright. Almost 100 runners sub 60 mins. And its probably even better most years given a lot of the elite runners didn't run this year.

Funnily enough the finisher in 110th this year has the exact same gun time as the 100th finisher last year - 1:00:38. (i was 108th this year so was keen to check if i'd have got a tshirt last year! ). 100th in 2014 was 1:01:22.