Who will win the Premier League?

Harry Palmr

monkey9 wrote: »

Montpellier a couple or so years back. In English football, maybe Forest.

Derby County (Cloughie again!) were the last genuine outlier to win the league - Forest while also modest did have some pedigree having been runners up in the late 60s.

ants09

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Derby County (Cloughie again!) were the last genuine outlier to win the league - Forest while also modest did have some pedigree having been runners up in the late 60s.

Unless I mistaken, Aston Villa won the league after forest ?

Rayne Wooney

CSF wrote: »

No actually, I think you'll find I'm right. In the last 9 games the only teams United have dropped points against are Arsenal, Man City and Crystal Palace away.

And if you look at all of the games you'll see we've dropped points against Newcastle, Swansea, Palace, Arsenal, and City. So more 'small' teams than big teams and I believe Van Gaal's record overall against the bigger teams is satisfying enough 1W 1D 1L against Arsenal, 1W 1D 1L against City, 1L 1D against Chelsea, 2W 1D Spurs 3W win over Liverpool

7W 4D 3L against the bigger teams is fine

City from same games have
5W 4D 5L

Arsenal
3W 7D 4L

Bobby Baccala

It's city's to lose imo. If aguero can stay fit I think theyll walk it.

Arsenal already picking up way too many injuries as usual, it's a shame because I genuinely thought we could win it but it's looking grim on the injury front.

Jon Stark

Anyone but United or Chelsea.

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And if you look at all of the games you'll see we've dropped points against Newcastle, Swansea, Palace, Arsenal, and City.

Not to mention "dropping points" against PSV, Middlesborough and CSKA when we needed wins in the cups. When the point is that we are often failing to do enough to put away weaker teams and that it will catch us again before the season is out, then there is plenty of evidence there to support that.

CSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not to mention "dropping points" against PSV, Middlesborough and CSKA when we needed wins in the cups. When the point is that we are often failing to do enough to put away weaker teams and that it will catch us again before the season is out, then there is plenty of evidence there to support that.

Cup games don't really apply for a variety of reasons. Most teams drop points against Swansea and Palace in a season. They're not easy games by any stretch. The Newcastle game was the only one in the league where United dropped points where they really should have taken all 3 and had a good goal disallowed in that game if I remember correctly. I know refereeing decisions go different ways over the course of the season, but still in that game that's how it was.

eagle eye

jester77 wrote: »

Can't see Vardy maintaining that form for the rest of the season. They have a tough December coming up, will be interesting to see where that are on Jan 1st.

It would be hard to see him maintain that because nobody has ever scored in more than ten consecutive games!

It's all about hanging onto their stars in January. I'd imagine there will be insane bids for Mahrez and big bids for other players like Schlupp and Kante too.

eagle eye

Personally I have this feeling that Liverpool are going to be right in contention for it along with Arsenal, City and United. I would dearly love for Leicester City to do it but you just get the feeling that a couple of injuries to key players could scupper their chances.

My head tells me City, my gut tells me Liverpool. The mean average for me is Arsenal. Really is impossible to call this early and that has not been the case for some time. It has seemed to be between two teams the last couple of years even at this early stage.

nice_guy80

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally I have this feeling that Liverpool are going to be right in contention for it along with Arsenal, City and United. I would dearly love for Leicester City to do it but you just get the feeling that a couple of injuries to key players could scupper their chances.

My head tells me City, my gut tells me Liverpool. The mean average for me is Arsenal. Really is impossible to call this early and that has not been the case for some time. It has seemed to be between two teams the last couple of years even at this early stage.

Liverpool?
Do Liverpool fans never learn?

they've just lost Sturridge to another foot injury

5starpool

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Liverpool?
Do Liverpool fans never learn?

they've just lost Sturridge to another foot injury

He is not a Liverpool fan.

apart from the tongue in cheek brigade who do it to wind up those looking for something to pounce on, no Liverpool fan thinks we have a chance at winning the league this season.

CSF

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Liverpool?
Do Liverpool fans never learn?

they've just lost Sturridge to another foot injury

He isn't a Liverpool fan

Liam O

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Liverpool?
Do Liverpool fans never learn?

they've just lost Sturridge to another foot injury

I was listening to Football Weekly there on Monday and one of them said something along the lines of "you know what, Liverpool are just 6 points off Arsenal in 4th now". As if that was a good thing after 13 games!

They look strong in bursts but losing to Palace at home cancels out any City away win and it was one of those cases of a team playing right into another's hands, like United did against Arsenal.

Does anyone actually believe Liverpool have a stronger team than United/City/Arsenal? Coutinho is in form and when he is they look like world beaters. It remains to be seen if he can keep that up over a sustained period and they don't exactly have the strongest players waiting in the wings. I'd rate Spurs higher due to having better players all over the pitch.

shamrock55

Liverpool/they have all of last seasons top 5 played away already and everton away too

only messin,has to be city for me

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

Cup games don't really apply for a variety of reasons.

They only don't apply because you don't want them to.

They were all games against lesser teams that United should have been winning but didn't because their attacking problems meant they didn't score enough. The point made was that this will happen again. Whether it previously happened in cup games, league games, both or neither doesn't really matter, it happened and is likely to keep happening, and this will eventually affect their title chances.

MR NINE

5starpool wrote: »

He is not a Liverpool fan.

apart from the tongue in cheek brigade who do it to wind up those looking for something to pounce on, no Liverpool fan thinks we have a chance at winning the league this season.

I'm a Liverpool fan and I'd say they have a chance. It's a slim chance,as represented by the bookies odds (~20/1) but still a chance. The league has been so strange this year, with no exceptional team that I'd say this is the likeliest season in a long time that we could have a surprise winner. Any one of City, Arsenal, Utd, Liverpool or Spurs could win the league imo. My prediction is Arsenal.

K-9

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Everton will be pushing top 4.

they've a nice run until the end of January

4th is going to be tight as well and I'd fancy Everton more than Southampton to give it a go. They've a few tough fixtures coming up before the New Year and might fall back. Chelsea beat Spurs and they are back in the picture, 7 points behind them. Lose and I'd say 13 points is too much to make up.

Maximus Alexander

I would actually love if Leicester won it.

K-9

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And if you look at all of the games you'll see we've dropped points against Newcastle, Swansea, Palace, Arsenal, and City. So more 'small' teams than big teams and I believe Van Gaal's record overall against the bigger teams is satisfying enough 1W 1D 1L against Arsenal, 1W 1D 1L against City, 1L 1D against Chelsea, 2W 1D Spurs 3W win over Liverpool

7W 4D 3L against the bigger teams is fine

City from same games have
5W 4D 5L

Arsenal
3W 7D 4L

That's a good return and remember those wins are 6 pointers too.

United drawing to Palace away is a poor result though, they aren't great at Selhurst Park at all. West Ham are similar away and Stoke seem to be good on the road as well.

With the league being so open I think you nearly have to break it down to 3 divisions! Top 6 or 7, bottom 6 or so and then the rest. Hell you could even divide the likes of Palace into a separate category based on home or away form.

I think City still have to be favourites, Kompany will help. When is Silva back?

Arsenal are capable of runs but then the usual surprise loss somewhere. Injuries mounting up too.

United boring and solid, but it is hard to see where that spark is going to come from.

Liverpool or Spurs nope! Spurs have too many draws though are stringing a few wins together now with Kane scoring. Liverpool need to sort out the home form but if they do, all the "top" teams have to go to Anfield. Still as Klopp said "Are you joking?"

CSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

They only don't apply because you don't want them to.

They were all games against lesser teams that United should have been winning but didn't because their attacking problems meant they didn't score enough. The point made was that this will happen again. Whether it previously happened in cup games, league games, both or neither doesn't really matter, it happened and is likely to keep happening, and this will eventually affect their title chances.

No they don't apply because they're in completely different competitions with a completely different dynamic that need to be approached very differently. As well as this, not every competition is valued the same amount so like for like comparisons don't work well.

In the Premier League, United have shown a very good knack for getting the job done even when not at their best against lesser opposition.

Nailz

Come mid-May, this is how I feel the top 7 in the table will look:

1. City
2. United
3. Arsenal
4. Spurs
5. Chelsea
6. Leicester
7. Liverpool

Flint Fredstone

K-9 wrote: »

That's a good return and remember those wins are 6 pointers too.

United drawing to Palace away is a poor result though, they aren't great at Selhurst Park at all. West Ham are similar away and Stoke seem to be good on the road as well.

With the league being so open I think you nearly have to break it down to 3 divisions! Top 6 or 7, bottom 6 or so and then the rest. Hell you could even divide the likes of Palace into a separate category based on home or away form.

I think City still have to be favourites, Kompany will help. When is Silva back?

Arsenal are capable of runs but then the usual surprise loss somewhere. Injuries mounting up too.

United boring and solid, but it is hard to see where that spark is going to come from.

Liverpool or Spurs nope! Spurs have too many draws though are stringing a few wins together now with Kane scoring. Liverpool need to sort out the home form but if they do, all the "top" teams have to go to Anfield. Still as Klopp said "Are you joking?"

I wouldn't call a draw away to Palace a poor result. They are one of those teams that raise their game and take points off the bigger teams. Arsenal and City beat them at Selhurst but they were by no means routine wins. They drew against United at home and beat Chelsea and Liverpool away. Spurs beat them 1-0 at WHL also.

I would class them as a banana skin for any of the so called bigger clubs, home or away.

CSF

MR NINE wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan and I'd say they have a chance. It's a slim chance,as represented by the bookies odds (~20/1) but still a chance. The league has been so strange this year, with no exceptional team that I'd say this is the likeliest season in a long time that we could have a surprise winner. Any one of City, Arsenal, Utd, Liverpool or Spurs could win the league imo. My prediction is Arsenal.

Those odds are just the bookies being conservative really as they are prone to do in situations of change.

If the final 25 games of the season could be played out 20 times (which is obviously proposterous), I don't think Liverpool would win one.

Speak Now

eagle eye wrote: »

Really is impossible to call this early and that has not been the case for some time. It has seemed to be between two teams the last couple of years even at this early stage.

I think it was just as tight 2 seasons ago, 2pts between top 5 at Christmas. Liverpool were top and the discussion was how the team at top had never missed top 4 by seasons end. By December 29th they were down to 5th.

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

No they don't apply because they're in completely different competitions with a completely different dynamic that need to be approached very differently. As well as this, not every competition is valued the same amount so like for like comparisons don't work well.

In the Premier League, United have shown a very good knack for getting the job done even when not at their best against lesser opposition.

Right, sure. So lets just ignore all those examples of United not getting the job done against lesser opposition, those football matches have no relevance when it comes to these other football matches. Fine.

CSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

Right, sure. So lets just ignore all those examples of United not getting the job done against lesser opposition, those football matches have no relevance when it comes to these other football matches. Fine.

You mean like the League Cup where they didn't even bother to start a lot of their best players? Yeah that's extremely relevant. Cause if not we're really just discussing the 0-0 draw at home to PSV which was obviously a disappointment. Not many teams win in Moscow and I don't think United have any divine right to be winning away in PSV either.

Really, the cup games where United would have been expected to win and didn't where the League Cup game against Middlesbrough and the home game against PSV the other night.

K-9

I can see what your saying but the results do back up what I'm saying! Palace and West Ham can't be quite as defensive at home, plus the top teams are probably more mindful of their threat at their places. When Palace are away to the big teams there's even more expectation on the big teams to attack, leaving the space that those teams thrive on.

I suppose we'll see as the season progresses. Palace have proved they are one of best teams away under Pardew, so it isn't a this season thing. Less games with Bilic to say for definite.

Leicester have 4 or 5 huge games coming up but they are a different proposition again, they don't care whether they are home or away! They are carrying that form over from last season too. Keep Vardy fit and who knows!

K-9

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

I think it was just as tight 2 seasons ago, 2pts between top 5 at Christmas. Liverpool were top and the discussion was how the team at top had never missed top 4 by seasons end. By December 29th they were down to 5th.

Big difference this time is it is much more competitive. The top 4 cleaned up those points United dropped, Arsenal finished with very high points in 4th.