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Flat full of excrement (news)

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  • 26-11-2015 6:27pm
    #1
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html
    Judge Sean O'Donnabhain in Cork Circuit Criminal Court was told that the excrement had caused enormous damage to the flat.
    All the floor-boards had to be ripped up and replaced.
    The entire flat had to be cleaned and fully redecorated involving all ceilings, walls and floors.
    Kummer had been remanded on bail following his plea to allow him raise compensation for the landlord involved.
    However, the court was told that, despite lengthy adjournments, he had raised only €800 despite being in good employment.

    I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!


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    #2
    hytrogen
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    To the Gallows (or Australia) for those haneous crimes! Sadly yet another reason not to get into the property market..


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    #3
    CarolynSmith
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭CarolynSmith


    Even Australia at the time of transportation wouldn't have accepted that idiot!


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    #4
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    hytrogen wrote: »
    To the Gallows (or Australia) for those haneous crimes! Sadly yet another reason not to get into the property market..

    Exactly. There's no incentive for landlords to risk it, there just seems to be no accountability. I'm sure the LL would rather the money be paid back (plus compensation) rather than see him jailed. How is he supposed to pay it back in prison?


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    #5
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    rawn wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html



    I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!

    Becuase it's a debt to a business and they're not considered a major priority in the scheme of things. (Rightly or wrongly)


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    #6
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html


    Truely shocking behaviour and the Landlord is still out of pocket to the tune of 15k



    Just noticed threat on this. Please delete this thread


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    #7
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    How many such strange criminal activity is done by tenants that never makes it to court as the knows they will never get justice.


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    #8
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,438 ✭✭✭cml387


    ***HEAD EXPLODES**

    This is something we don't usually associate with Germans or Apple.


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    #9
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    cml387 wrote: »
    ***HEAD EXPLODES**

    This is something we don't usually associate with Germans or Apple.

    Dunno about anyone else but strange toilet behaviour is certainly something I associate with ze Germans!

    Not sure what Apple has to do with anything.


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    #10
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    Social media may have been a factor.


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    #11
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    I'm strangely glad, if anything, that it was a working tenant, rather than a RA tenant.


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    #12
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    rawn wrote: »
    I'm strangely glad, if anything, that it was a working tenant, rather than a RA tenant.

    Not sure it makes a difference, he's not a scumbag tenants in the true sense. He clearly has mental health issues.


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    #13
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Not sure it makes a difference, he's not a scumbag tenants in the true sense. He clearly has mental health issues.

    As do many people needing the support of RA. I'm not having a go but it's interesting to see the differing attitudes just because he sat at a computer 7-8 hours a day rather than in front of the telly.


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    #14
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I think people are generally sympathetic towards anyone engaging in hoarding of any kind, as it indicates some kind of mental health issue. This case is particularly extreme, but I don't think anyone would say, "Ah typical scummy RA tenants" for this kind of case.

    The surprise about him working is probably more shock at how in the hell he managed to function.

    The compensation is pretty pathetic, as others have said it's considered a debt payable to a business, not a private individual. Ultimately any losses on the landlord's part may be reclaimable against tax bills and such. Whereas a private individual is straight out of pocket.


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    #15
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    As do many people needing the support of RA. I'm not having a go but it's interesting to see the differing attitudes just because he sat at a computer 7-8 hours a day rather than in front of the telly.

    There is a difference between the guy who collected months of excrement and the person who bought a puppy and let it destroy the furniture/floors. Or had months of house parties, put holes through every wall, broke every fixture and left drug paraphernalia everywhere. Or the person who wasn't arsed paying for bin charges, so put everything in the back garden for a year. Or the person who couldn't be arsed reporting a water leak until the floor collapsed, then moved and lodged a PRTB case for unsuitable dwellings.

    I've dealt with a person with significant mental health problems(like killing your ferret and writing things on the wall in its blood) and a lazy/malicious person who games the system and stops paying rent or maintaining the property. There isn't enough of a grey area to even remotely compare the two.


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    #16
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    seamus wrote: »
    I think people are generally sympathetic towards anyone engaging in hoarding of any kind, as it indicates some kind of mental health issue. This case is particularly extreme, but I don't think anyone would say, "Ah typical scummy RA tenants" for this kind of case.

    The surprise about him working is probably more shock at how in the hell he managed to function.

    The compensation is pretty pathetic, as others have said it's considered a debt payable to a business, not a private individual. Ultimately any losses on the landlord's part may be reclaimable against tax bills and such. Whereas a private individual is straight out of pocket.

    Thats ok so.....


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    #17
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Can the landlord not pursue a civil case separately to recoup costs?

    The landlord is screwed for now but would he not have a case further down the line?


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    #18
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    A former <SNIP> neighbour of mine did the same thing. If you went out my back on a cold morning and you choked on the smell of urine. He used to piss in Coke bottles, milk cartons, basins etc. I know a landlord in Nenagh who have had tenants who urinate in bottles too. Seems to be always tenants from <SNIP>.


    Could he be the urine bandit http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/cork-indepndent-not-taking-the-piss-e50-reward-for-outing-bottled-urine-bandit/28183


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    #19
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    Wasn't there a thread on boards a while back with this exact same problem? In that case, the OP's flat mate was storing urine in bottles. Revolting.


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    #20
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    There isn't enough of a grey area to even remotely compare the two.

    Perhaps not in the scenario you describe but there's plenty of other scenarios which don't fit nicely into black and white.

    There is not disputing the fact that RA or no RA there's mentally ill people out there. One set get the benefit of the doubt, another set do not for no other reason than personal prejudice.


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    #21
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    This sort of behavior is not uncommon, even with people who own their homes.


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    #22
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    rawn wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html



    I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!
    How did he get away with it though? He got jailed.


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    #23
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Azalea wrote: »
    How did he get away with it though? He got jailed.

    The landlord is 15k out of pocket. He should not have been jailed, he can't pay back from prison, that's what I was aiming at, not that he got away.


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    #24
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    The man clearly had mental health issues. All this talk of "being made pay it back" is being dense. He was not at capacity and I think the jail sentence itself is extremely harsh and symptomatic of the major problem in this country with people who are suffering from serious psychological issues being thrown into jail instead of receiving the proper care they need. It's extremely unfortunate that the landlords insurance doesn't cover the damage and I'm feel awful for them because they're out of pocket. But this is just a bad situation all around.


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    #25
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    The man clearly had mental health issues. All this talk of "being made pay it back" is being dense. He was not at capacity and I think the jail sentence itself is extremely harsh and symptomatic of the major problem in this country with people who are suffering from serious psychological issues being thrown into jail instead of receiving the proper care they need. It's extremely unfortunate that the landlords insurance doesn't cover the damage and I'm feel awful for them because they're out of pocket. But this is just a bad situation all around.


    If you read the article there is no mention of in ability to pay. It Reads like he has the money but choose not to pay.


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    #26
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    handlemaster wrote: »
    If you read the article there is no mention of in ability to pay. It Reads like he has the money but choose not to pay.

    I did read the article. Talking about ability to pay here is again not comprehending the overarching issue. The man is not well.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    . The man is not well.

    This is making excuses. I don't care how fecked up he is that shouldn't exempt him from paying what he owes. Giving some people a free pass is a big issue in this county and it's being demonstrated in this thread also.

    The money should have been taken from his directly, leave him enough to pay rent and eat the rest should have just been taken from him every month. After destroying that place he moved to one of the nicest and most expensive apartment complexes in cork if he could afford that he could afford to pay his debts.


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    #28
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    Casey Scrawny Oats wrote: »
    This is making excuses. I don't care how fecked up he is that shouldn't exempt him from paying what he owes. Giving some people a free pass is a big issue in this county and it's being demonstrated in this thread also.

    The money should have been taken from his directly, leave him enough to pay rent and eat the rest should have just been taken from him every month. After destroying that place he moved to one of the nicest and most expensive apartment complexes in cork if he could afford that he could afford to pay his debts.

    A policy where this man got the help that he needs instead of being thrown into jail would be a much better outcome for everyone. Better insurance for landlords would also help in this instance. It's a freak case, that's why there are headlines.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    A policy where this man got the help that he needs instead of being thrown into jail would be a much better outcome for everyone. Better insurance for landlords would also help in this instance. It's a freak case, that's why there are headlines.

    I actually don't really agree with jail in this instance either but for the simple reason that he should be working to pay off his debts rather than sitting in jail and his former LL being out of pocket.


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    #30
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Casey Scrawny Oats wrote: »
    I actually don't really agree with jail in this instance either but for the simple reason that he should be working to pay off his debts rather than sitting in jail and his former LL being out of pocket.

    The article suggests he was working and not poorly paid but was making next to no effort to repay the debt.


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