Match Thread - Leinster v Ulster - RDS Arena - Fri 27 November 19:35 | TG4 BBC NI

molloyjh

Reddan was really poor in the second half. Only at 53 mins here now but he has made mistake after mistake.

The Rape of Lucretia

.ak wrote: »

Yeah it was never a forward pass, I was in line with it and even with momentum it clearly went backwards.

Sometimes I wonder if the refs are aware of the momentum realtive motion law.

It was a perfectly good pass. Ref error.

CatFromHue

I don't see that pass going backwards.

Sexton is jogging when he passes it and the guy who catches it does so a good meter in front of where Sexton threw it from.

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't see that pass going backwards.

Sexton is jogging when he passes it and the guy who catches it does so a good meter in front of where Sexton threw it from.

The whole momentum argument doesn't stop applying because you aren't full out sprinting, considering he was jogging forward and throwing a pass of considerable length going forward a metre isn't really anything at all, I think it was a perfect pass

CatFromHue

I can feel a science experiment coming on.....if I had the money to waste that is

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't see that pass going backwards.

Sexton is jogging when he passes it and the guy who catches it does so a good meter in front of where Sexton threw it from.

That he is moving forward slower than he could be doesn't change the fact that he is moving forward. At no time is the ball ahead of where Sexton is, it leaves his hands backwards and it only travels about 1-2 metres forward while he himself is also moving forwards.

Anyway, it was just a query on the laws as much as anything. I actually think Lacey did OK over the 80 for the most part so it's not meant in that way.

mfceiling

.ak wrote: »

Yeah it was never a forward pass, I was in line with it and even with momentum it clearly went backwards.

Sometimes I wonder if the refs are aware of the momentum law.

Remember who the ref was...

.ak

mfceiling wrote: »

Remember who the ref was...

The linesman called it iirc

Dave_The_Sheep

Does that "lines on the pitch, momentum" video have to be posted again?

Clearly not a forward pass.

CatFromHue

You get forward momentum onto the pass when you're running (and usually running fast), look at the clip again and Sexton slows right down to walking speed when he throws the pass and only gets up to a jog after the ball leaves his hand.

I don't think he puts any forward momentum onto the ball as he doesn't have any forward momentum himself.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

You get forward momentum onto the pass when you're running (and usually running fast), look at the clip again and Sexton slows right down to walking speed when he throws the pass and only gets up to a jog after the ball leaves his hand.

I don't think he puts any forward momentum onto the ball as he doesn't have any forward momentum himself.

If he is moving forward, which you're saying he was, then he has forward momentum. I'm getting very confused here.....

EDIT: So hang on, does he have very little forward momentum because he was jogging or no forward momentum because he was walking (forward)?

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sexton has very little forward momentum when he's passing the ball

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sexton is jogging when he passes it

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sexton slows right down to walking speed when he throws the pass and only gets up to a jog after the ball leaves his hand.

I don't think he puts any forward momentum onto the ball as he doesn't have any forward momentum himself.

It wasn't a forward pass. You see passes like this every game.

However, you can tell Sexton is concerned about it being deemed a forward pass as he noticeably accelerates after the ball leaves his hands to get a distance ahead of where the ball ends up.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

It wasn't a forward pass. You see passes like this every game.

However, you can tell Sexton is concerned about it being deemed a forward pass as he noticeably accelerates after the ball leaves his hands to get a distance ahead of where the ball ends up.

I don't think that's what Johnny is doing there at all, he's looking to get himself into a position to take the pass from Kirchner. It's something we see Sexton do a lot, continue his line after passing the ball so that he can get involved again. He did something similar against Sarries in 2010 (1:45 below):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTbVoGm8k7U

CatFromHue

molloyjh wrote: »

If he is moving forward, which you're saying he was, then he has forward momentum. I'm getting very confused here.....

EDIT: So hang on, does he have very little forward momentum because he was jogging or no forward momentum because he was walking (forward)?

I watched it again and saw that he wasn't actually jogging when he passed the ball but walking, he's jogging when he gets the ball but slows right down to walking speed to pass it and then speeds up again after he's passed it.

Yes as he's moving forward he has forward momentum but it's negligible so can be discounted when considering is the pass forward or not.

Think about a car driving at 1 km/h and throwing a rock out the window. Then compare it with a car 100km/h where you throw another rock out the window at the exact same spot and in the exact same way.

The rock at 100km/h will be way ahead of the other rocks as the car will give it forward momentum when you throw it. The rock from the 1km/h car will take no forward momentum from the car as the forward speed is so small or negligible.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think that's what Johnny is doing there at all, he's looking to get himself into a position to take the pass from Kirchner. It's something we see Sexton do a lot, continue his line after passing the ball so that he can get involved again. He did something similar against Sarries in 2010 (1:45 below):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTbVoGm8k7U

Yeah you're probably right but I thought at the time he looked like he was running too far ahead of the ball and figured it was for show.

accidentprone1

CatFromHue wrote: »

I watched it again and saw that he wasn't actually jogging when he passed the ball but walking, he's jogging when he gets the ball but slows right down to walking speed to pass it and then speeds up again after he's passed it.

Yes as he's moving forward he has forward momentum but it's negligible so can be discounted when considering is the pass forward or not.

Think about a car driving at 1 km/h and throwing a rock out the window. Then compare it with a car 100km/h where you throw another rock out the window at the exact same spot and in the exact same way.

The rock at 100km/h will be way ahead of the other rocks as the car will give it forward momentum when you throw it. The rock from the 1km/h car will take no forward momentum from the car as the forward speed is so small or negligible.

Your analogy is just an exaggeration of the actual situation. I'm not sure if that works as something to back up the point!

dub_skav

mfceiling wrote: »

Remember who the ref was...

Typical favouritism to Ulster from him