2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

LordSutch

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Redmond is rightly despised to this day.

John Redmond?

Glossed over and not given the credit he deserved maybe, but 'despised'. Despised by who?

He wanted Home Rule for Ireland, (instead of being ruled from London). An early form of devolved Government if you will. I wonder will they mention him in the drama next Sunday?

not yet

Anyone else think that Gleesons Character will face the firing squad with his brother in it ala wind that shakes the barley...

While I'm at it.. the production values and acting in the Wind that shakes the barely were miles ahead of Rebellion..

Happyman42

LordSutch wrote: »

John Redmond?

Glossed over and not given the credit he deserved maybe, but 'despised'. Despised by who?

He wanted Home Rule for Ireland, (instead of being ruled from London). An early form of devolved Government if you will. I wonder will they mention him in the drama next Sunday?

Footnoted himself in fairness.

Bellerstring

Robert Kee documentary from 1980 here for anyone who is interested.

https://youtu.be/oCkxwROWYAQ

P. Breathnach

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The rebels set up a Provisional Government which gave them the authority to stop looters.

So they had authority because they said that they had authority?

Strazdas

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So they had authority because they said that they had authority?

Pretty much it would appear. In the proclamation read out by Pearse, he announced they had set up a Provisional Government which would "administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic". By any stretch of the imagination though, this was an illegal action and they did not have any legal authority to shoot dead civilians on the streets of Dublin.

wp_rathead

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Redmond openly preached blood sacrifice in the trenches in return for Home Rule post war.

The UVF was allowed to remain intact when it became the Ulster Division while the Irish Volunteers were broken up and Irish soldiers were led by Anglo Irish Protestants and British officers.

The Unionists and Tories were delighted so many Irish died so they could kill Home Rule for good after the Great War was over.

Redmond is rightly despised to this day.

ah c'mon who the feck despises Redmond
i know he wasn't republican enough for some - while he wanted an All-Ireland autonomy he also wanted Ireland to remain in the Commonwealth afaik

josephryan1989

not yet wrote: »

Anyone else think that Gleesons Character will face the firing squad with his brother in it ala wind that shakes the barley...

While I'm at it.. the production values and acting in the Wind that shakes the barely were miles ahead of Rebellion..

The leaders of the rebellion were shot. Not nobodys like Jimmy.

josephryan1989

wp_rathead wrote: »

ah c'mon who the feck despises Redmond
i know he wasn't republican enough for some - while he wanted an All-Ireland autonomy he also wanted Ireland to remain in the Commonwealth afaik

The Irish people.
They overwhelmingly backed SF and rejected the IPP in the 1918 election.

josephryan1989

Strazdas wrote: »

Pretty much it would appear. In the proclamation read out by Pearse, he announced they had set up a Provisional Government which would "administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic". By any stretch of the imagination though, this was an illegal action and they did not have any legal authority to shoot dead civilians on the streets of Dublin.

The British had no right to rule Ireland.

Strazdas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The British had no right to rule Ireland.

They had in 1916 seeing as the state of Britain and Ireland was a parliamentary democracy and there were free elections. It's not as if Britain had invaded and occupied Ireland six months previously.

TCDStudent1

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The Irish people.
They overwhelmingly backed SF and rejected the IPP in the 1918 election.

Come on - Redmond wasn't even alive for that election! To use it as proof he was despised is very unfair and misleading.

josephryan1989

Strazdas wrote: »

They had in 1916 seeing as the state of Britain and Ireland was a parliamentary democracy and there were free elections. It's not as if Britain had invaded and occupied Ireland six months previously.

There were no free elections. The Commons was designed to gerrymander the Irish MPs and drown them out after our own parliament was disposed of in 1800. The demands for the penal laws to be repealed and for Catholics to be emancipated were only won through the threat of force. The Proestant Church forced Catholics to pay tithes until the 1860s. The British helped engineer famine and mass emigration for decades. The country was ruled for the benefit of a tiny Pro-British elite. When the Irish people voted for a Republic in 1918 the British sent the Tans.

The Irish people were serfs and we had enough of it. The men and women of 1916 fought back and gave the country and example to follow and today we are a free republic.

One day partition will end too and we will have a united country. Expect the British to continue to meddle and West Brits to continue to tug the forelock to the Monarchy.

Strazdas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There were no free elections. The Commons was designed to gerrymander the Irish MPs and drown them out after our own parliament was disposed of in 1800. The demands for the penal laws to be repealed and for Catholics to be emancipated were only won through the threat of force. The Proestant Church forced Catholics to pay tithes until the 1860s. The British helped engineer famine and mass emigration for decades. The country was ruled for the benefit of a tiny Pro-British elite. When the Irish people voted for a Republic in 1918 the British sent the Tans.

The Irish people were serfs and we had enough of it. The men and women of 1916 fought back and gave the country and example to follow and today we are a free republic.

One day partition will end too and we will have a united country. Expect the British to continue to meddle and West Brits to continue to tug the forelock to the Monarchy.

You could say that the people of Scotland and Wales were "serfs" under "British rule" as well then, correct? Their status within the UK was exactly as that of Ireland in early 1916.

KingBrian2

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Redmond openly preached blood sacrifice in the trenches in return for Home Rule post war.

The UVF was allowed to remain intact when it became the Ulster Division while the Irish Volunteers were broken up and Irish soldiers were led by Anglo Irish Protestants and British officers.

The Unionists and Tories were delighted so many Irish died so they could kill Home Rule for good after the Great War was over.

Redmond is rightly despised to this day.

Redmond was not despised but he was seriously misguided in remaining so loyal to the British establishment. He spoke out against the executions and the whole handling of the crisis. He was forced to condemn the Revolutionaries as a British MP. I would not have expected any less.

It was more his refusal to accept the logical position that Britain were not going to negotiate with Ireland on an equal footing. Redmond was no fanatic or grand reformer evidence of this is the corrupt nature of the IPP which was already seen as unrepresentative of Irish people.

The Irish Revolutionaries did not have popular support as has been mentioned, the records show this but neither did the IPP and Redmond chose instead to continue to appease the Brits instead of standing shoulder to shoulder with Arthur Griffith, Patrick Pearse and Francis Sheehy-Sheffington.

Strazdas

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Redmond was not despised but he was seriously misguided in remaining so loyal to the British establishment. He spoke out against the executions and the whole handling of the crisis. He was forced to condemn the Revolutionaries as a British MP. I would not have expected any less.

It was more his refusal to accept the logical position that Britain were not going to negotiate with Ireland on an equal footing. Redmond was no fanatic or grand reformer evidence of this is the corrupt nature of the IPP which was already seen as unrepresentative of Irish people.

The Irish Revolutionaries did not have popular support as has been mentioned, the records show this but neither did the IPP and Redmond chose instead to continue to appease the Brits instead of standing shoulder to shoulder with Arthur Griffith, Patrick Pearse and Francis Sheehy-Sheffington.

Redmond gambled by assuming WW1 would be a very short infantry style war, probably over by Christmas 2014 and with all the Irish Volunteers home by then. It's easy for us to be wise with hindsight but WW1 definitely changed everything and altered the course of Irish history.

TCDStudent1

In the programme, people are saying 'the shinners are rebelling' etc. I always read that it was a mistake by Britain referring it to as the Sinn Fein rebellion. Did dubliners actually see it as a Sinn Fein rebellion while it was happening??

Strazdas

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

In the programme, people are saying 'the shinners are rebelling' etc. I always read that it was a mistake by Britain referring it to as the Sinn Fein rebellion. Did dubliners actually see it as a Sinn Fein rebellion while it was happening??

Apparently the Irish media also thought it had been a "Sinn Fein rebellion" even though the party played no part in the Rising.

gormdubhgorm

barney 20v wrote: »

A shocking waste of 6 million euro - downton with rifles and jobs for the boys and girls from nidgeville -

The story told from a west Brit perspective- produced by a west Brit organisation so no shocks for me on that count .

Plastic acting - pointless story lines - so much they had to use for inspiration/ real stories ,instead we get the bride to be with the one expression .

I'm not a republican but my god this is awful rubbish - hard to fathom it cost €1.2 million per episode ......

Agreed with the above in bold this I watched two episodes and will not be able to stick a third. Despite this the women who acts as May has put in decent performances even if there are obvious shortcomings with the series.
It's main selling point seems to be that it focuses on women. Which is fair enough but if it is focused on women at least make the women interesting and not some badly acted one dimensional characters out of a novel. The West Brit bit is taken for granted though!

KingBrian2

Strazdas wrote: »

Apparently the Irish media also thought it had been a "Sinn Fein rebellion" even though the party played no part in the Rising.

Well that is not entirely true they arrested Arthur Griffith and other Sinn Fein members. The usual suspects were rounded up for sympathies to the cause and espousing a Republican Declaration. Lets be reasonable here the party was skirting acceptability. They did not care that they were seen as traitors they openly wore it as a badge of identity.

gormdubhgorm

Lt Dan wrote: »

Did they ? So much so that they been fighting for their own Parliament since the days of Issaac Butt (granted, that movement never sought for complete Independence)

There is a reason why Dublin were known as Jackeens. Not every county was so passionately in love or identified themselves as British

Yes they wanted home rule but they still wanted to be British citizens...much like the Scottish in the recent referendum "Better together etc.

Your getting Home Rule v Republic mixed up. The republic was only founded in 1948.
Prior to 1916 the majority of the Irish people wanted a form of self-governance but within the United Kingdom.

The country people or (culchies if you prefer) tried to identify with the British through language. Irish was viewed as the language of the poor and English was for the upwardly mobile. It was not just "the pale" that identified as British. You are viewing history with modern eyes. Why do you think the Irish language is relegated behind English in today's Ireland?

JeffKenna

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There were no free elections. The Commons was designed to gerrymander the Irish MPs and drown them out after our own parliament was disposed of in 1800. The demands for the penal laws to be repealed and for Catholics to be emancipated were only won through the threat of force. The Proestant Church forced Catholics to pay tithes until the 1860s. The British helped engineer famine and mass emigration for decades. The country was ruled for the benefit of a tiny Pro-British elite. When the Irish people voted for a Republic in 1918 the British sent the Tans.

The Irish people were serfs and we had enough of it. The men and women of 1916 fought back and gave the country and example to follow and today we are a free republic.

One day partition will end too and we will have a united country. Expect the British to continue to meddle and West Brits to continue to tug the forelock to the Monarchy.

With you all the way until your last paragraph.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It's main selling point seems to be that it focuses on women. Which is fair enough but if it is focused on women at least make the women interesting and not some badly acted one dimensional characters out of a novel. The West Brit bit is taken for granted though!

I've been thinking about it today and I am inclined to agree with this, in part. I was all for them not focusing on the known names and giving us a look at it from a new perspective. I was also quite pleased to see that 3 of the main characters were going to be women. So I am slightly disappointed to see that we basically had one scene of them all together, very briefly, then two one on one scenes and the rest of it they've been separated and all their scenes have been with men.
Frances is probably the only one that's been well written. We've seen her dedication to the cause, the respect the younger boys have for her, the disappointment of PP's attitude towards her and women in general and then the almost disillusionment with it all when she went out onto the streets.

Mae's storyline has been entirely about her boyfriend and Elizabeth has had about 3 lines of dialogue over the two episodes.

Lt Dan

josephryan1989 wrote: »

He's acting as Robert Barton. He fought against the rebels but later joined Sinn Fein and was part of the Treaty negotiations in 1921.

Funny enough, the actor has the chin, a bit. Shame about the hair colour

Barton also voted no against the Treaty and sided with De Valera and chums during the Civil War.

Like Erskine Childers, a very strange man.

iguana

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Despite this the women who acts as May has put in decent performances even if there are obvious shortcomings with the series.

Unlike the woman who plays Peig who is singularly the worst actor I have ever seen in anything. I'm hoping against hope that her husband, brother-in-law and son all make it out alive just so we can be spared her acting out grief.

Lt Dan

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The Bachelor's Walk massacre (a "big" word for the killing of 3 people) was a good few weeks previously: it happened in July 1914.

There was a more serious event in the context of the 1916 Rising. It happened at North King Street, and involved 15 civilian deaths.

Boom major typo on the Bachelor's Walk date.

Francis Sheffington Sheehy's murder was also a big issue. Though in that case the culprit genuinely had lost the plot

6 were killed at Portbello area too.

Wonder will RTE show that? Doubt it. The government probably reminded RTÉ of the apparent need for this period to be inclusive

Lt Dan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I've been thinking about it today and I am inclined to agree with this, in part. I was all for them not focusing on the known names and giving us a look at it from a new perspective. I was also quite pleased to see that 3 of the main characters were going to be women. So I am slightly disappointed to see that we basically had one scene of them all together, very briefly, then two one on one scenes and the rest of it they've been separated and all their scenes have been with men.
Frances is probably the only one that's been well written. We've seen her dedication to the cause, the respect the younger boys have for her, the disappointment of PP's attitude towards her and women in general and then the almost disillusionment with it all when she went out onto the streets.

Mae's storyline has been entirely about her boyfriend and Elizabeth has had about 3 lines of dialogue over the two episodes.

2016's version of the Wimmen's movement, Una Mullaly of the Irish Times won't be agreeing with ye.

May's story is entirely pointless. The sex scene was unnecessary, dare I say, "would someone think of the children" who might have wanted to watch this. Nice eye candy though.

Elizabeth, for such a "strong independent" woman, does not really come out as such

josephryan1989

Strazdas wrote: »

You could say that the people of Scotland and Wales were "serfs" under "British rule" as well then, correct? Their status within the UK was exactly as that of Ireland in early 1916.

The people of the UK are ruled by an unelected monarch and her aristocratic family and extended family.

Mal-Adjusted

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The people of the UK are ruled by an unelected monarch and her aristocratic family and extended family.

They're not really.

josephryan1989

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Come on - Redmond wasn't even alive for that election! To use it as proof he was despised is very unfair and misleading.

Redmond was the Bertie of his day.