2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

Corruptedmorals

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

Smooth pathways were laid across the front square of Trinity College a few years so that the queen of England would not trip on the cobblestones. Yet characters were shown walking along these new paths in what is supposed to be 1916

Ah, no. They were put in place as paths for wheelchairs.

josephryan1989

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I know the Volunteers openly drilled with wooden rifles and the like, but can someone answer with historical accuracy, where they genuinely drilling in Dublins main streets with actual rifles? Find that hard to believe. Like the scene where Gleeson is on the street approaching the wedding party, in full volunteer uniform and carrying a rifle. Surely the British were not that liberal in turning a blind eye...

The Volunteers openly drilled with rifles. The reason the Brits were caught with their pants down was because the rebels in the weeks leading up to the main event held drills and marches on the streets of Dublin. In one incident they took over Dame Street before dispersing again. They played a game of hate and hounds with the DMP and RIC who failed to find their arms caches.

The_Morrigan

I've decided to rewatch the first two episodes today to see if I feel any different about them. I've watched them when I've gotten home from work so have been tired and at the time thought they were flat and lacked some substance.
Being a five part series I was unsure how they would work the lead up to the events and the aftermath of the rising. It was a very emotive time and an event that still drums up reactions from people. I can only speculate that at the time the Irish population was in a state of turmoil with emotions running high, desperation and fear would have been at the forefront with many families either having their breadwinners fighting in WWI or involved in the rebellion or families who didn't know which side of the coin they fell on with regards to the future of Ireland. This doesn't seem to come across at all.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I've decided to rewatch the first two episodes today to see if I feel any different about them. I've watched them when I've gotten home from work so have been tired and at the time thought they were flat and lacked some substance.
Being a five part series I was unsure how they would work the lead up to the events and the aftermath of the rising. It was a very emotive time and an event that still drums up reactions from people. I can only speculate that at the time the Irish population was in a state of turmoil with emotions running high, desperation and fear would have been at the forefront with many families either having their breadwinners fighting in WWI or involved in the rebellion or families who didn't know which side of the coin they fell on with regards to the future of Ireland. This doesn't seem to come across at all.

I see what you're saying here but I think the problem with things like this, fictional characters in historical settings, is it can't be all things to all people. Good or bad 1916 was an important part of Irish history and it hasn't really been covered all that much in terms of TV/film. So there's an entire population of people wanting something very specific from it and it's never going to be able to deliver it all.
It reminds me of when Suffragette came out last year and people complained that it didn't cover the part WW1 played in getting women the vote, and it didn't cover all the lives of the real people that featured and it should have done this and it should have done that. The suffragette movement is something that hasn't been covered all that extensively in film/TV either so bar making some 5 hour long historical epic it was never going to be able to cover the entire history of the movement and everyone involved in it.

To be honest Rebellion hasn't been what I hoped it would be, so far, either. I don't think we need to dwell on this period of our history but there's no reason that there shouldn't be more things produced around these events, even outside of the centenary year. Look at how much TV/Film in the US is set in or around the Civil War, or WW1 or WW2. There are probably hundreds of really interesting people and stories from that whole period of Irish history that could be explored in different ways. The problem is it never is and then you get one program every 50 years with the expectation of a nation on it. It's never going to live up to it.

The_Morrigan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I see what you're saying here but I think the problem with things like this, fictional characters in historical settings, is it can't be all things to all people. Good or bad 1916 was an important part of Irish history and it hasn't really been covered all that much in terms of TV/film. So there's an entire population of people wanting something very specific from it and it's never going to be able to deliver it all.
It reminds me of when Suffragette came out last year and people complained that it didn't cover the part WW1 played in getting women the vote, and it didn't cover all the lives of the real people that featured and it should have done this and it should have done that. The suffragette movement is something that hasn't been covered all that extensively in film/TV either so bar making some 5 hour long historical epic it was never going to be able to cover the entire history of the movement and everyone involved in it.

To be honest Rebellion hasn't been what I hoped it would be, so far, either. I don't think we need to dwell on this period of our history but there's no reason that there shouldn't be more things produced around these events, even outside of the centenary year. Look at how much TV/Film in the US is set in or around the Civil War, or WW1 or WW2. There are probably hundreds of really interesting people and stories from that whole period of Irish history that could be explored in different ways. The problem is it never is and then you get one program every 50 years with the expectation of a nation on it. It's never going to live up to it.

I can completely understand that expectations may never be met but when you think of films like Michael Collins and The Wind that Shakes the Barley that cast managed to convey a lot more. Yes they had more experienced actors and yes they had bigger budgets but I've seen the same emotions conveyed by amateurs in theatrical productions better than some of the cast of Rebellion. At this point I'm unsure if it's the cast or the direction.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I can completely understand that expectations may never be met but when you think of films like Michael Collins and The Wind that Shakes the Barley that cast managed to convey a lot more. Yes they had more experienced actors and yes they had bigger budgets but I've seen the same emotions conveyed by amateurs in theatrical productions better than some of the cast of Rebellion. At this point I'm unsure if it's the cast or the direction.

I see what you're saying. Personally I'd blame the writing. I mentioned this before but I've seen Charlie Murphy in a few other things and although she does seem to love that one facial expression she is a good actress. It feels like she's only had about 5 lines of dialogue over the first 2 episodes though and none of it that good. They haven't really given an explanation for anything, friendships, relationships, political leanings, motivations etc. etc. They've just thrown a pile of people at us and expect us to care. Even the best of actors would struggle to convey anything when their characters are quite poorly written.

That said I think Ruth Bradley is selling the crap out of her character. I don't know why she's doing anything she's doing but I believe she means it
Jimmy's brother is quite good too. I don't know that it's been explained but I assume he signed up to go to war to earn a decent wage to keep his family. Although I'm not sure how much of this has actually been shown on screen and how much of it is me projecting my own knowledge of the time onto the characters. If you were an American, for example, watching this with zero knowledge of anything would you even understand what was happening? Never mind why?

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Charlie Murphy in a few other things and although she does seem to love that one facial expression she is a good actress.

There is a touch of the Kathrine Hepburn, and running the full gamut of emotions from a to b.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There is a touch of the Kathrine Hepburn, and running the full gamut of emotions from a to b.

The_Morrigan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I see what you're saying. Personally I'd blame the writing. I mentioned this before but I've seen Charlie Murphy in a few other things and although she does seem to love that one facial expression she is a good actress. It feels like she's only had about 5 lines of dialogue over the first 2 episodes though and none of it that good. They haven't really given an explanation for anything, friendships, relationships, political leanings, motivations etc. etc. They've just thrown a pile of people at us and expect us to care. Even the best of actors would struggle to convey anything when their characters are quite poorly written.

That said I think Ruth Bradley is selling the crap out of her character. I don't know why she's doing anything she's doing but I believe she means it
Jimmy's brother is quite good too. I don't know that it's been explained but I assume he signed up to go to war to earn a decent wage to keep his family. Although I'm not sure how much of this has actually been shown on screen and how much of it is me projecting my own knowledge of the time onto the characters. If you were an American, for example, watching this with zero knowledge of anything would you even understand what was happening? Never mind why?

The back stories and reasoning would help a lot. My family did the musical Michael Collins few year ago and anyone could have watched it and understood who was involved, where they stood and what they were feeling. The audience left emotional every night and with a greater understanding of the various conflicts between the fight for the Republic, the six counties, the split in families who fell on opposite sides etc etc. All it took was snippets of the script to reflect on these issues and vocalise them.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The back stories and reasoning would help a lot. My family did the musical Michael Collins few year ago and anyone could have watched it and understood who was involved, where they stood and what they were feeling. The audience left emotional every night and with a greater understanding of the various conflicts between the fight for the Republic, the six counties, the split in families who fell on opposite sides etc etc. All it took was snippets of the script to reflect on these issues and vocalise them.

I'm going to have to stop you there.... a musical Michael Collins?

Heraldoffreeent

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm going to have to stop you there.... a musical Michael Collins?

The Hills were alive with the sound of Mausers?

The_Morrigan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm going to have to stop you there.... a musical Michael Collins?

Yup.

http://www.kilkennymusicalsociety.com/show/michael-collins-a-musical-drama

They also won best overall show in Ireland for their production of it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

The Hills were alive with the sound of Mausers?

"I'll forgive and forgeeeeet if you say you'll never go, yes it's true what they saaaaay.....better the DeValera you know!"

fisgon

Haven't had a chance to read all of the posts on this thread, but the last few pages that I have read seem incredibly negative. No doubt some of the comments and opinions are genuinely felt, but others just smack of nick-picking and the typical bashing on Boards of any Irish production that comes on our screens.

I have to give a counterpoint to all the negativity. I was really unsure if RTE would get this right, and though it started off slow, I think they are really succeeding so far.

I have found the whole thing moving and affecting. It has gone some of the way to showing what people alive at the time of the Rising felt about Britain, about Ireland, the war and the prospect for Home Rule. The characters are subtly drawn, they are emerging slowly and some of the performances are controlled but really excellent. Especially admire Ruth Bradley, Brian Gleeson, Charlie Murphy.

Some people seem to be complaining about the pace, that it is too slow. I disagree, I think the writing is contained, controlled, and the pace is slowly building. The whole thing is a convincing portrayal of Ireland a century ago.

There is a default position of a significant number of people to see any attempt at Irish drama as somehow sub-standard, an assumption that if it is Irish, it cannot be any good. It is obvious that some comments here are effected by this assumption. Maybe we should open our eyes a little and stop assuming that if we made it, it can't be any good.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

fisgon wrote: »

Haven't had a chance to read all of the posts on this thread, but the last few pages that I have read seem incredibly negative. No doubt some of the comments and opinions are genuinely felt, but others just smack of nick-picking and the typical bashing on Boards of any Irish production that comes on our screens.

There is a default position of a significant number of people to see any attempt at Irish drama as somehow sub-standard, an assumption that if it is Irish, it cannot be any good. It is obvious that some comments here are effected by this assumption. Maybe we should open our eyes a little and stop assuming that it we made it, it can't be any good.

It reminds me a little of when The Fall was on last year (the year before?). There were some posters who were discussing what we were seeing, questioning some things, wondering where certain things were going etc. Unfortunately there were as many posters just looking to tear every aspect of it apart and what a lot of it boiled down to there was they weren't paying attention to it. They were so determined to hate it that they were imagining problems with logic or plot holes or any number of other things. Most of which were easily explained by anyone actually paying attention.

Although I myself have some issues with the writing/characters in Rebellion I am trying to hold off on any serious judgment of it until all the episodes have aired.

The Black Oil

I enjoyed the on screen chaos of the second episode.

By no means do I feel it's bad like some are making out, I like the production values and generally how things have unfolded. However, I think there are a few too many characters, perhaps unavoidable given the story, and the show has to service 'here's what's happening with character A-F', each time. Sure, they're integrated into the bigger picture, but I think things would be a lot tighter had they gone with maybe 2-4 and their principles/values rather than some of the side plots. It's not easy to pull off. I'm not critiquing the romantic stuff, btw.

I can understand the notion that it's somewhat flat. It's lacking in tension. There's just not enough of a bubbling underneath from individual moments building to 'holy sh!t' that I get from imported cable (more so than network) dramas. With Rebellion, they dabble a bit with tension when they get to the final scene. That's about it. On the whole, I think it would be impactful with a more capable director.

josephryan1989

There's no comic relief whatsoever.
A number of funny episodes happened during the Rising.
A bunch of Cumann na mBan girls armed with revolvers were guarding a British airman held prisoner in the summer house at the corner of St. Stephen's Green after he had been walking out with his sweetheart. Typical Irish women they had cake and sandwiches and tea made. While the Countess was away the airman and his female captors apparently got up to some hanky panky and when she returned she threatened the hussies with court martials!
The groundskeeper apparently negotiated a cease-fire between the British military and the rebels so he could feed the ducks before the shooting for going again.
And in the middle of the shooting and shelling on O'Connell Street men from the slums continued to visit the pubs and despite hails of bullets and shrapnel staggered home drunk without a scratch.
Many Dubliners actually came out to watch the scrap as if it was entertainment even though stray shots claimed many lives.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There's no comic relief whatsoever.
A number of funny episodes happened during the Rising.
A bunch of Cumann na mBan girls armed with revolvers were guarding a British airman held prisoner in the summer house at the corner of St. Stephen's Green after he had been walking out with his sweetheart. Typical Irish women they had cake and sandwiches and tea made. While the Countess was away the airman and his female captors apparently got up to some hanky panky and when she returned she threatened the hussies with court martials!
The groundskeeper apparently negotiated a cease-fire between the British military and the rebels so he could feed the ducks before the shooting for going again.
And in the middle of the shooting and shelling on O'Connell Street men from the slums continued to visit the pubs and despite hails of bullets and shrapnel staggered home drunk without a scratch.
Many Dubliners actually came out to watch the scrap as if it was entertainment even though stray shots claimed many lives.

I'm sure they'll make a comedy version of the rising eventually.

fisgon

josephryan1989 wrote: »

. While the Countess was away the airman and his female captors apparently got up to some hanky panky .

"hanky-panky" with his captors - plural? Please elaborate....

Strazdas

fisgon wrote: »

Haven't had a chance to read all of the posts on this thread, but the last few pages that I have read seem incredibly negative. No doubt some of the comments and opinions are genuinely felt, but others just smack of nick-picking and the typical bashing on Boards of any Irish production that comes on our screens.

I have to give a counterpoint to all the negativity. I was really unsure if RTE would get this right, and though it started off slow, I think they are really succeeding so far.

I have found the whole thing moving and affecting. It has gone some of the way to showing what people alive at the time of the Rising felt about Britain, about Ireland, the war and the prospect for Home Rule. The characters are subtly drawn, they are emerging slowly and some of the performances are controlled but really excellent. Especially admire Ruth Bradley, Brian Gleeson, Charlie Murphy.

Some people seem to be complaining about the pace, that it is too slow. I disagree, I think the writing is contained, controlled, and the pace is slowly building. The whole thing is a convincing portrayal of Ireland a century ago.

There is a default position of a significant number of people to see any attempt at Irish drama as somehow sub-standard, an assumption that if it is Irish, it cannot be any good. It is obvious that some comments here are effected by this assumption. Maybe we should open our eyes a little and stop assuming that it we made it, it can't be any good.

The ratings for the second episode were actually up on RTE1 from what was a healthy start the first week which is a very good sign. It seems to be a handful of TV critics and people on discussion forums and social media saying how "terrible" the second episode was. I thought it was a cracking episode myself and it held my attention throughout.

KingBrian2

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There's no comic relief whatsoever.
A number of funny episodes happened during the Rising.
A bunch of Cumann na mBan girls armed with revolvers were guarding a British airman held prisoner in the summer house at the corner of St. Stephen's Green after he had been walking out with his sweetheart. Typical Irish women they had cake and sandwiches and tea made. While the Countess was away the airman and his female captors apparently got up to some hanky panky and when she returned she threatened the hussies with court martials!
The groundskeeper apparently negotiated a cease-fire between the British military and the rebels so he could feed the ducks before the shooting for going again.
And in the middle of the shooting and shelling on O'Connell Street men from the slums continued to visit the pubs and despite hails of bullets and shrapnel staggered home drunk without a scratch.
Many Dubliners actually came out to watch the scrap as if it was entertainment even though stray shots claimed many lives.

It was pretty epic. The fighters were finally slogging it out against the occupying force. The combatants had the sympathy of a great many people and seeing their heroes taken on the might of the bloody Imperialists was great site to behold.

Dangerous hell yeah though for the kids it must have been exciting. The soldiers with their bayonets and commanders issuing the orders against the backdrop of the unrelenting blasts of machine fire. Martial law then being imposed and the civilians disregarding the draconian laws to embrace freedom.

ectoraige

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It was pretty epic. The fighters were finally slogging it out against the occupying force. The combatants had the sympathy of a great many people and seeing their heroes taken on the might of the bloody Imperialists was great site to behold.

Dangerous hell yeah though for the kids it must have been exciting. The soldiers with their bayonets and commanders issuing the orders against the backdrop of the unrelenting blasts of machine fire. Martial law then being imposed and the civilians disregarding the draconian laws to embrace freedom.

What show was that, sounds good?

KingBrian2

ectoraige wrote: »

What show was that, sounds good?

Just describing the moment. Describing the moment.

The Rape of Lucretia

Ruth Bradley's Irish accent is poor in this. Has she lost her natural Irish accent, or is she trying, poorly, to do some specific county accent ? Sounds like an English person doing a reasonable imitation of a generic Irish one.

josephryan1989

fisgon wrote: »

"hanky-panky" with his captors - plural? Please elaborate....

The guy's name was Pratt apparently!

I hope they recreate the Battle Of Mount Street Bridge in the next episode.
If Sam Pekinpah or Sergio Leone had made a movie about the Rising it would have been epic!
Liam Cunningham have a brilliant performance as Michael Malone in Rebel Heart shooting down British Tommies until his last round.
The last stand at No.25 Northumberland Road and Clanwilliam Road has been sometimes called the Irish Thermopalyae.

The Rape of Lucretia

fisgon wrote: »

"hanky-panky" with his captors - plural? Please elaborate....

Hanky-panky as in high jinks, or hanky panky as in plumpi strumpi ?

weadick

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Ruth Bradley's Irish accent is poor in this. Has she lost her natural Irish accent, or is she trying, poorly, to do some specific county accent ? Sounds like an English person doing a reasonable imitation of a generic Irish one.

Yeah sounds like a poor attempt at a Dub at doing a culchie accent. At a guess I'd say shes meant to be from the midlands, Carlow/Kilkenny area. Same flat monotone tones.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Pretty sure she's supposed to be from Galway. Although why I have that in my head I'm not sure. Sounds fine to me anyway.

HeidiHeidi

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Ruth Bradley's Irish accent is poor in this. Has she lost her natural Irish accent, or is she trying, poorly, to do some specific county accent ? Sounds like an English person doing a reasonable imitation of a generic Irish one.

Finally got around to watching Ep 2 tonight - and have to agree and more with this comment.

Ruth Bradley's character for me is far and away the worst of the three girls. I know people are saying Charlie Murphy's character is flat, and has no lines or development, and I'd agree with that - but Ruth Bradley's just keeps trotting out clichéd line after clichéd line in that awful accent - I heard someone on the radio during the week saying it was like she was put in as an "everyman" character - trying to portray a stereotype rather than an individual. Don't know if I'm expressing that right (it's very late!) but anyway, she's bloody annoying me now.

On a much lighter, more frivolous note - could we either start mentioning here, or on a separate dedicated thread (á la the L/H locations thread) where scenes were shot? It's been driving me nuts trying to figure out where Elizabeth's family house is - can someone please put me out of my misery?

And all those streets where the looting happened - were they sets or real?

The train station was the fruit market behind the four courts.

There were loads of other locations that looked really familiar, but like I say it's very late and my brain is fried!

Strazdas

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Finally got around to watching Ep 2 tonight - and have to agree and more with this comment.

Ruth Bradley's character for me is far and away the worst of the three girls. I know people are saying Charlie Murphy's character is flat, and has no lines or development, and I'd agree with that - but Ruth Bradley's just keeps trotting out clichéd line after clichéd line in that awful accent - I heard someone on the radio during the week saying it was like she was put in as an "everyman" character - trying to portray a stereotype rather than an individual. Don't know if I'm expressing that right (it's very late!) but anyway, she's bloody annoying me now.

On a much lighter, more frivolous note - could we either start mentioning here, or on a separate dedicated thread (á la the L/H locations thread) where scenes were shot? It's been driving me nuts trying to figure out where Elizabeth's family house is - can someone please put me out of my misery?

And all those streets where the looting happened - were they sets or real?

The train station was the fruit market behind the four courts.

There were loads of other locations that looked really familiar, but like I say it's very late and my brain is fried!

I notice they have a replicate of the facade of the old Liberty Hall faithfully reconstructed from photos of the era (the place where the printing press is) but I've no idea if it's merely a film set.