2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

I can't help thinking that some of this has translated into criticism of Rebellion. It's interesting that many people seemed to have no particular problem with the first episode and yet episode 2 came in for a load of flak when it coincidentally didn't appear to show the rebels in a very good light at times.

A very good point. Lots of criticism about things that were factually accurate and came from first hand accounts of the events.

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, but I was challenging the idea that Ireland had been "occupied" for 800 years or so,

Challenging reality must be a fascinating hobby. The reality is that Ireland had been occupied for approximately 800 years.

as if the desire in the first few hundred years had been for us to be a nation state which was being denied to us by the occupiers.

Well the violent suppression of any uprisings, the execution of probably hundreds of thousands of people and the deaths of millions in various famines and military campaigns should have been a clue that there was a desire for Ireland to stand on its own.

The move towards nationalism and a desire to be running our own affairs was something that only became potent in the late 19th century along with the Gaelic Revival.

So 1798 never happened?

Having said that, Irish people heading into the 20th century would not necessarily have had any problem with being described as "British", especially as no Irish nation state existed at that point. Hang ups about the use of such words are almost certainly a post-independence thing.

Again, rubbish! The Irish people, even then, were not British. No matter how much revisionist "historians" and other crayon jockeys in RTE and the Dublin media would like it so, the Irish people were not British and were not considered so. Even the 1801 Act of Union (more of this history stuff that you seem to want to challenge) does not make Ireland "British" but part of a United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Irish society at the time of the Rising was quite complex and the growing Catholic middle classes had a lot to lose but the working classes were being screwed as usual. The trite anachronisms of the Rebellion series ("but we're British") do a disservice to the history. The Rising has become almost a backdrop in the series rather than the central theme.

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

The trite anachronisms of the Rebellion series ("but we're British") do a disservice to the history. The Rising has become almost a backdrop in the series rather than the central theme.

Which was the intention from the start. It's a drama set against the backdrop of the Rising. Do they're doing a great job after achieving what they set out to, is what you're saying.

jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's amazing to see the bitterness and hostility some people still have towards any version of history that isn't the one they want to be true.

Really? Like the attempt to rewrite the people of 1916 as "constitutional nationalists" as Micheal Martin of Fianna Fail did recently? Like John Bruton's scribbling in the "Irish" Independent newspaper about those nasty people in 1916 betraying his hero Redmond and how "Independence" could have been achieved (in his neo-Unionist fantasy) without 1916?

At the time of the Rising there were people who were staunchly Irish and despised everything British. There were also plenty who held the exact opposite opinion. To imply the Rising was not universally supported or that some Irish natives actively supported the army at the time is not "revisionist" history. It's a balanced and unbiased look at the events.

A typical strawman argument. As an "Irish native", your wibbling is rather offensive. There was a lot of poverty in Ireland at the time that the British Army and Navy provided employment for Irish men and there was a World War in progress. Home Rule had been on the statute books for a number of years but it was the continued obstruction of its implementation, the Curragh Mutiny and the introduction of the gun into Irish politics by the arming of the UVF with German weapons that created the conditions for the Rising. This is the real backstory that Rebellion seems to ignore. Then there is the willingness of politicians such as Redmond to stupidly sacrifice tens of thousands of Irish lives for broken promises. (More of this History thing that seems to have been ignored in RTE's Down Town Abbey.)

Rebellion, so far, is not balanced and it is not unbiased. Some of the cliches are grating.

Perhaps it would be a good thing to watch how it handles the executions of the leaders of the Rising and the aftermath before making such a claim that it is balanced and unbiased.

Ironically, and too late, Redmond realised the effect that those would have on the Irish people. Incidentally, though you didn't mention it, it was described in the Dublin media of the time as the "Sinn Fein Rebellion" though SF had little to do with it. That attitude of journalistic inaccuracy and hatred of anything hinting of Irish Independence from the UK still seems to permeate some sections of the Dublin media. But will RTE's Down Town Abbey revise all that history to provide a Politically Correct view of events acceptable to those who refer to the Irish people of the time as "Irish natives"?

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

Really? Like the attempt to rewrite the people of 1916 as "constitutional nationalists" as Micheal Martin of Fianna Fail did recently? Like John Bruton's scribbling in the "Irish" Independent newspaper about those nasty people in 1916 betraying his hero Redmond and how "Independence" could have been achieved (in his neo-Unionist fantasy) without 1916?

I didn't realise Micheal Martin and John Bruton had made an appearance on the show. I mustn't be watching closely enough.

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

Challenging reality must be a fascinating hobby. The reality is that Ireland had been occupied for approximately 800 years.

Well the violent suppression of any uprisings, the execution of probably hundreds of thousands of people and the deaths of millions in various famines and military campaigns should have been a clue that there was a desire for Ireland to stand on its own.

So 1798 never happened?

Again, rubbish! The Irish people, even then, were not British. No matter how much revisionist "historians" and other crayon jockeys in RTE and the Dublin media would like it so, the Irish people were not British and were not considered so. Even the 1801 Act of Union (more of this history stuff that you seem to want to challenge) does not make Ireland "British" but part of a United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Irish society at the time of the Rising was quite complex and the growing Catholic middle classes had a lot to lose but the working classes were being screwed as usual. The trite anachronisms of the Rebellion series ("but we're British") do a disservice to the history. The Rising has become almost a backdrop in the series rather than the central theme.

Regards...jmcc

The "We're not British, we're Irish" conversation is something that has come along post-independence and dare I say much more recently. People in Ireland in the early 20th century weren't remotely interested in labels of national identity nor they did they have hang ups about flags, national anthems and royal families....all of that came with Irish republicanism and nationalism later in the century ie. via the likes of Fianna Fail and then Sinn Fein.

Even those who firmly wanted independence weren't bothered with labels of identity and flags, that was an irrelevant sideshow. They were much more concerned with their day to day lives.

Of course there was violent suppression of uprisings but that would have happened anywhere in Europe be it in the Russian Empire, the Austro-Hungarian empire, the Ottoman empire etc. As I said earlier, large swathes of Europe and it's people were "occupied" and governed by a nation which wasn't it's own, that was the status quo in many cases (and even in the countries that weren't occupied, living conditions were often pretty awful for it's citizenry, hence something like the French Revolution taking place).

The Black Oil

Enjoyed the third episode, seemed to have more of a pulse to it.

Miss Lacey should shout 'Up Cork!' at that woman she's staying with.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Black Oil wrote: »

Enjoyed the third episode, seemed to have more of a pulse to it.

Miss Lacey should shout 'Up Cork!' at that woman she's staying with.

Walk around banging a pot from the kitchen while shouting "Oh to, oh to be, oh to be A REBEL!"

silverharp

where is that chapel where the bishop and priest were talking at the start of episode 3?

KingBrian2

If the series was longer they probably could have mixed it up and added depth and more fighting this would have the show a lot more enjoyable. 7 episodes for 7 days is not really enough time to portray all the personalities. Griffith, O' Neill and Casement are not included and they would have filled in the gap between the arch Republicans in the GPO and the pro British/anti Rising Nationalists.

The Rebellion itself was the tip of the iceberg the later war of independence drew on these events. The show even nods towards it with the rebuke of the tactics of applying 19th century military maneuverers to actually win the day. It was the combination of artful politics and guerrilla warfare that coerced Brits out of the country.

Strazdas

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If the series was longer they probably could have mixed it up and added depth and more fighting this would have the show a lot more enjoyable. 7 episodes for 7 days is not really enough time to portray all the personalities. Griffith, O' Neill and Casement are not included and they would have filled in the gap between the arch Republicans in the GPO and the pro British/anti Rising Nationalists.

The Rebellion itself was the tip of the iceberg the later war of independence drew on these events. The show even nods towards it with the rebuke of the tactics of applying 19th century military maneuverers to actually win the day. It was the combination of artful politics and guerrilla warfare that coerced Brits out of the country.

They could easily have stretched it to eight or ten episodes (and perhaps they might be regretting that now). They've had to force along the pace a bit, though they've done a decent job of trying to tease out the complexities.

TerrorFirmer

Very watchable, but falls far short of what it could have been. The acting is all over the place, some excellent performances but the overall production is marred by some questionable talent as well. I think the best character is Private not-Aidan-Gillen - his scenes are good.

Had to laugh at the 'death' of young Peter - in the scenes where he's supposed to be dead on the table, his chest is very clearly rising and falling. I find it hard to believe that no-one noticed that during shooting or post production.

seanin4711

The show is the spoiler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Had to laugh at the 'death' of young Peter - in the scenes where he's supposed to be dead on the table, his chest is very clearly rising and falling. I find it hard to believe that no-one noticed that during shooting or post production.

I thought I noticed that myself. I hate to find fault in little things but when Frances was with Jimmy in the house she put that bottle or whatever it was down 4 times in the one scene! Once for every camera angle.

Blackie Grey

Watched this recently and I have to say its one of the worst produced shows I have seen awful-the actors are so wooden they bleed sap.

To much emphasis on women in it .


Awful

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Blackie Grey wrote: »

Watched this recently and I have to say its one of the worst produced shows I have seen awful-the actors are so wooden they bleed sap.

To much emphasis on women in it .


Awful

Surprised you could stop your knuckles dragging on the ground long enough to type that.

Irish_rat

Blackie Grey wrote: »

Watched this recently and I have to say its one of the worst produced shows I have seen awful-the actors are so wooden they bleed sap.

To much emphasis on women in it .


Awful

+100. The lad crying on top of the poor dead child was so emotional I nearly fell asleep.

The scenes in the house out in Dalkey were fascinating too, May Lacey finally came down the stairs after vomiting for half the day in the bedroom. It felt both actresses were dying for 4 o'clock to come to get out the door so the speak.

iguana

Irish_rat wrote: »

+100. The lad crying on top of the poor dead child was so emotional I nearly fell asleep.

I have to say I watched that thinking he seemed more like someone bringing a tough bout of constipation to it's painful end than a man grieving the nephew he had a fatherly relationship with.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I have to wonder if so many of you think so little of it why are you still watching it three episodes in? Just so you have something to whinge about?

Or did you only tune in for this one episode without having seen the first two, just so you could have something to whinge about?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I have to wonder if so many of you think so little of it why are you still watching it three episodes in? Just so you have something to whinge about?

Or did you only tune in for this one episode without having seen the first two, just so you could have something to whinge about?

The Rape of Lucretia

Blackie Grey wrote: »

Watched this recently and I have to say its one of the worst produced shows I have seen awful-the actors are so wooden they bleed sap.

To much emphasis on women in it .


Awful

Yeh. Drama focusing on women. Whats the world coming to. Drama of all sorts has gone down the tubes over the last 400 years. Letting women on the stage at all was the start of it I tells ya.

PeterTheEighth

Irish_rat wrote: »

The scenes in the house out in Dalkey were fascinating too, May Lacey finally came down the stairs after vomiting for half the day in the bedroom. It felt both actresses were dying for 4 o'clock to come to get out the door so the speak.

The one thing I couldnt help thinking was "This girl is having an affair with her husband, and is now carrying her child, yet she is still letting her stay in her house?"

The Rape of Lucretia

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms....

Well, 'the Irish people' is a bit all encompassing. What about those who were perfextly happy being part of the richest and most powerful nation on earth, even if some dreamed of running their own little thing. Poor road chosen I always feel, and even today would feel that rejoining the Union would be a great step. Consign the Republic eperiment as a sort of prodigal son mistake.
I am sure many felt the same 100 years ago, but got carried away by the secessionist rhetoric. And lived to regret it.

Blackie Grey

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Surprised you could stop your knuckles dragging on the ground long enough to type that.

How so mod explain -the women characters are poor actors whats the problem?

ricero

Blackie Grey wrote: »

Watched this recently and I have to say its one of the worst produced shows I have seen awful-the actors are so wooden they bleed sap.

To much emphasis on women in it .


Awful

i think its decent. episode 1 was good, episode 2 was terrible and episode 3 was decent. Tonight is make or break for me.

Also i do agree the focus on the women was a big mistake imo. Very boring characters the lot of them

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Blackie Grey wrote: »

How so mod explain -the women characters are poor actors whats the problem?

That's not what you said. You said "to much emphasis on women in it", which is an entirely different thing, and also spelled wrong.

There are some poor actors in the show, I'll agree, but the three main women are not among them.

I don't see why you feel the need to address the fact that I'm a mod in the racquet sports forum either. Seems entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

Mal-Adjusted

ricero wrote: »

Also i do agree the focus on the women was a big mistake imo. Very boring characters the lot of them

Not a mistake per-say, but of the three main characters, only one seems to be a big player in the events of that week, and that's pushing it. of the other two, one is only in the periphery and the other has no involvement alltogether so it feels like the writers are pulling hens teeth trying to come up with ways to make them relevant.

amdublin

Mod:

Ok less of the squabbling and the insults.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO - attack the post not the poster.
Blackie Grey - that a moderator is a moderator in this, or any other forum is irrelevant

silverharp

its watchable but its a bit thin , its like something put together by a committee. only 5 episodes and they are flaffing around with affairs and morning sickness. it would have been better if they dropped all that soap opera crap and instead for instance focus on the Irish and British soldiers in Dublin, its missing a whole sub plot of their views or tensions etc.

josephryan1989

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Not a mistake per-say, but of the three main characters, only one seems to be a big player in the events of that week, and that's pushing it. of the other two, one is only in the periphery and the other has no involvement alltogether so it feels like the writers are pulling hens teeth trying to come up with ways to make them relevant.

I imagine in the next series Frances will be the only female member of the 12 Apostles and in the Civil War episodes she will be the sniper who kills Collins at Beal na Blath.