2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

weadick

A silly production about three silly women who didn't actually exist. Tearing up the history book for the sake of making good drama is fine as long as the end justifies the means. This is little more than Mills & Boon does 1916.

Unhistorical ****.

josephryan1989

Lt Dan wrote: »

Yes, it happened. Collins didn't get the death penalty unlike over sixty others.

When Maxwell was under pressure not to implement future executions , he is on record of asking William Wylie , Prosecuting Officer and future High Court Judge (and supreme authoritarian in the area of Irish Land Law) whether he thought Eamonn De Valera would be a trouble maker in the future, Wylie said no that he was a no body as well.

Collins played no role in commander of any unit of sub unit, unlike say William T Cosgrave.


Anyone notice at the end names called out when Gleeson was leaving the screen. Cosgrave (future leader of Cumann na nGaedheal and father of future leader of Fine Gael) got mention but no other future Fianna Failer?. I wonder was that to appease Fine Gael? lol.

Maxwell ironically was dismissed when he began preaching home rule and righting wrongs such as absentee landlordism.

Lt Dan

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I imagine in the next series Frances will be the only female member of the 12 Apostles and in the Civil War episodes she will be the sniper who kills Collins at Beal na Blath.

12 Apostles? Nah. She will be insisting that she does them all, alone, but maybe Jimmy (does he die?) tags alone for another wacky adventure.

Meanwhile, Lizzy begins to feel the pinch now that daddy won't fund her. Still use the same facial expression.Lizzie's Mama will become a libertarian and lesbian and gets Republican fever while playing snap with Francis' aunt.

Jimmy will get disillusioned with Collins and the fact that Connolly's Ireland will not happen. He will refuse to "fight for the church" and moan about it in a pub and maybe flee to France or Russia


What happens to Minny? Will she be on the game for Ireland? Draws British soldiers in and they get jumped on by the Love/Hate gang.


The other waun?, bha. She will get sick of the sick of the English chap. Moan about it for 50 minutes of the show before she goes a long dangerous dash across a bullet ridden street to kiss her fella off as he sails out of Dublin. Will she go or will she stay? Ireland ain't no country for a fallen woman. She might even get her hair shaved off and tarred for being with a British fella , done by the same wauns who cursed the rebellion

josephryan1989

KingBrian2 wrote: »

No likeable characters. The Rebels and British army are both given negative portrayals. The Rebels use chid soldiers and support civil unrest while the Brits strip naked and torture prisoners as well as being a bunch of misogynists.

No clear sense of yeah the rebels where fighting to secure a freedom from occupation. It's no admiration of General Washington. If they did a show about the American Revolution it would depict him as a handsome great person.

I'd like to see more of the Nationalist leaders and less of the occupation landscape we are getting. This is Ireland 1916 the place was run by a military over lordship. No sense of military rule is showing. The city was in ruins.

But Pearse DID use child soldiers and the British DID strip Thomas Clarke naked.

Lt Dan

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Maxwell ironically was dismissed when he began preaching home rule and righting wrongs such as absentee landlordism.

From a British point of view , Maxwell, who didn't have an political nous and his military career was nothing to brag about, was royally shafted by his government who gave him mixed instructions. Maxwell had no idea about the political implications of the country nor did he understand the Irish.


Government, like all governments, in many wars, like to use the military as scapegoats eg Vietnam (and any subsequent war America and Britain have been in and "lost" since - politically that is)

Lt Dan

weadick wrote: »

A silly production about three silly women who didn't actually exist. Tearing up the history book for the sake of making good drama is fine as long as the end justifies the means. This is little more than Mills & Boon does 1916.

Unhistorical ****.

Dare I say, Indiana Jones did a better attempt, with his adult friend Sean Lemass (who was only 16 at the time, he was in 1916 but not an adult like the episode showed) It even had decent social commentary with a Sean O'Casey figure (Liam Lynch)

I never thought Haughey was that bad, but by Christ the writers really ballsed this up. Where is the drama or context? The women have no meaning at all

Lt Dan

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A few smoke bombs to spare them the expense of a burning GPO artillery explosions rifle and machine gun fire and the heroic escape to Moore Street.

How much did this cost again? No way. The budget must have been used up getting Nelson's pillar imposed in O'Connell Street

You wouldn't think O'Connell Street got touched. Barely anything fighting at all. At least that garbage Michael Collins film made an attempt.

Collins Barracks seemed to have been the only place they used, with a small scene of outside Kilmainham. Didn't even bother using the Stone Breakers yard. Surely they could have used the old Hospital next to Kilmainham (weren't many of the trials held there) The Court set looked cheap (even if it was only used for half a minute). Granted they couldn't use the Rotunda area as there are too many buildings but really? Collins barracks for everything ?

josephryan1989

Lt Dan wrote: »

Dare I say, Indiana Jones did a better attempt, with his adult friend Sean Lemass (who was only 16 at the time, he was in 1916 but not an adult like the episode showed) It even had decent social commentary with a Sean O'Casey figure (Liam Lynch)

I never thought Haughey was that bad, but by Christ the writers really ballsed this up. Where is the drama or context? The women have no meaning at all

You are never told how Eliza and Frances were radicalized. Both of them just have blank expressions on their faces. Jimmy and Art are believable characters and well acted. Hammond is a good villain - a promotion hungry bureaucrat. Eliza's fiance is interesting because he is noble but finds himself in British uniform fighting his own countrymen but perhaps will become a convert to republicanism later.

Irish_rat

I've been dissing this series quite a bit but that episode wasn't too bad.

The highlight of tonight goes to the bloke acting Michael Collins. He came across very well and looked the part. Possibly the strongest performance in the whole series to date. Fabulous.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

PeterTheEighth wrote: »

In the days of female quotas and stupid boy/clever girl advertising, it is certainly a popular decision to write in a female hero (or heroine), but it's not based in reality.

How is it not based in reality? There were around 100 women arrested with the men after the Rising. There were female snipers on rooftops. There were women of fairly high ranking taking command of others. How is Frances' character unrealistic?

Lt Dan wrote: »

Very strange comment to make. People are expressing criticism about the programme. The least they should do is watch it in its and form a full evaluation of the complete work. Not everyone is Ruth Dudley Edwards who went off on a tirade about a film that she admitted that she had not watched when making her comments (Wind The Shakes The Barely)

No idea what any of that means or who you're referring to at the end there. My comment was not strange at all. I have seen plenty of people make reasonable complaints about certain issues with the program. I have some issues myself and have expressed them. I was referring to the glut of posts from people saying it's the worst thing they've ever seen or it's worse than Fair City etc. etc.
Perfectly reasonable to wonder why they're still watching 3 or 4 episodes in if that's their opinion.

One thing is for sure, thread like this or any other tv related thread wouldn't exist. Sorry to reign on the parades of the fools who publicly threw platitudes of praise at the start. Considering the film was specially commissioned to cover an important period of Irish life and spent a lot of tax payers money on it, don't expect people to stay silent.

Again, not sure what that's about. Plenty of people are having a reasonable discussion about the program. Plenty of reasonable faults and failings, as I've said above. I'd be interested to see how much tax payers money was spent on it too. A common complaint I've yet to see backed up with exact figures. I know it got €400,000 from the BAI but that's the only precise figure I've seen.

Considering your position on this site, surely you know that at least 60% of the site's content is about people having something to whine about

What exactly do you think my position on the site is? Mod in Racquet Sports is not the height of power a lot of people in here seem to think it is. They're not very whingy over there either, for what it's worth.

josephryan1989

Irish_rat wrote: »

I've been dissing this series quite a bit but that episode wasn't too bad.

The highlight of tonight goes to the bloke acting Michael Collins. He came across very well and looked the part. Possibly the strongest performance in the whole series to date. Fabulous.

The Clarke scene was magnificently emotional. It gave me a lump in my throat. A brave actor to do that scene to show how brave the real man was. Followed by the scene where Art punches Jimmy and then they both bawl crying over the death of his son. Brilliant acting. Such a shame the female leads are so sh*he.

jmcc

Wasn't the scene with the working class Dub in a British Army uniform on the ship taken from the end of Strumpet City?

Regards...jmcc

Irish_rat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Im assuming Jimmy was shot?

Jimmy is still alive in the next episode. Poor actor though IMO. The others tonight were fairly good tonight. The priest is not so good either.

Pretzill

This episode was poorly edited. Hopping from scene to scene with nonsense filler in-between. I could see the editing faux pas in last week's episode but they took it to a whole new level tonight. It was jumbled. Still haven't warmed to any character but thought the last scene with the imprisoned women banging the walls as the leaders were being executed was really strong just wasted on a poorly executed series ( no pun intended)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The Clarke scene was magnificently emotional. It gave me a lump in my throat. A brave actor to do that scene to show how brave the real man was. Followed by the scene where Art punches Jimmy and then they both bawl crying over the death of his son. Brilliant acting. Such a shame the female leads are so sh*he.

Brian Gleeson is fairly amateurish. If you're going to criticise the acting be honest. The guy playing his brother is probably the best actor in it. All Gleeson did in that scene was get punched and then hug him. All the emotion came from the other guy. Compare that to Gleeson's big scene last week where he looked like he was badly constipated.

I don't think the women are bad actors, the writing is pretty poor at times though which can't help.

KingBrian2

Deleted User wrote: »

the writers are trying to show it in a neutral light. They are trying to avoid romanticising the whole thing and making it lop sided.

I realise that, though lets be clear these guys are the Revolutionaries of their era I expect them to be treated as such. We should have zero sympathy for the cause of Empire. The men and women that went into the GPO were fighting for a free Ireland with or without local support. They are the champions. This is not about glorification it is about showing a story about those men not the background characters.

jmcc

This isn't RTE's attempt at portraying the Rising. This Ooorr Tee Eeee's Down Town Abbey.

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I realise that, though lets be clear these guys are the Revolutionaries of their era I expect them to be treated as such. We should have zero sympathy for the cause of Empire. The men and women that went into the GPO were fighting for a free Ireland with or without local support. They are the champions. This is not about glorification it is about showing a story about those men not the background characters.

It's not actually. It's a program about fictional characters. The real people are the background ones and they've done a pretty good job of showing them honestly. Tonight's episode in particular did a good job of showing why they would have rebelled. The treatment they got from the soldiers was horrific.

KingBrian2

Anyone else fell scumbaggery what they did to Clarke? Not even certain it was historically accurate but it made me really want one of the volunteers pick himself up and give that officer a punch in the face.

Irish_rat

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Mod in Racquet Sports is not the height of power a lot of people in here seem to think it is. They're not very whingy over there either, for what it's worth.

Being a former mod of three forums there is no power involved. Racquet Sports must be an exciting forum. Should be a sub forum of gambling though I think.

kneemos

Haven't watched it but tuned in tonight for five minutes to see how bad it was.
Just wondering has there been any fighting at all?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

kneemos wrote: »

Haven't watched it but tuned in tonight for five minutes to see how bad it was.
Just wondering has there been any fighting at all?

There was fighting when the fighting was happening.

Strazdas

Irish_rat wrote: »

I've been dissing this series quite a bit but that episode wasn't too bad.

The highlight of tonight goes to the bloke acting Michael Collins. He came across very well and looked the part. Possibly the strongest performance in the whole series to date. Fabulous.

I thought it was an excellent episode myself (I can't believe all the negativity here surrounding the series).

You could see the British arrogance coming through very clearly post-insurrection ("Showing your true colours at last" as Connolly aptly put it to Hammond). It does explain the context of how the country moved towards Sinn Fein firstly and then a violent war of independence three years later.

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

This isn't RTE's attempt at portraying the Rising. This Ooorr Tee Eeee's Down Town Abbey.

Regards...jmcc

The much vaunted Strumpet City which became a huge international success was also very Downton Abbey-esque with romance and personal relationships at the centre of the series, alongside the depictions of poverty and the 1913 Lockout. I'm amused that Downton Abbey is used almost as a form of insult in comparing Rebellion to it.

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

The much vaunted Strumpet City which became a huge international success was also very Downton Abbey-esque with romance and personal relationships at the centre of the series, alongside the depictions of poverty and the 1913 Lockout. I'm amused that Downton Abbey is used almost as a form of insult in comparing Rebellion to it.

Strumpet City was written by a writer of real talent. It was also made into a TV series decades before Downton Abbey. Wanting to be good little Britons, RTE obviously tried for a Down Town Abbey of Downton Abbey. How's the "challenging reality" hobby going?

Regards...jmcc

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

Strumpet City was written by a writer of real talent. It was also made into a TV series decades before Downton Abbey. Wanting to be good little Britons, RTE obviously tried for a Down Town Abbey of Downton Abbey. How's the "challenging reality" hobby going?

Regards...jmcc

Check out the episodes of Strumpet City on Youtube. The romance between the Bryan Murray character and his girlfriend was one of the main storylines as was the troubled relationship between the young curate and the older alcoholic priest. If it was on air now, it would probably be bashed here for being too "soapy" and Downton Abbey-lite and not paying enough attention to Jim Larkin and the Lockout.

nagdefy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well, 'the Irish people' is a bit all encompassing. What about those who were perfextly happy being part of the richest and most powerful nation on earth, even if some dreamed of running their own little thing. Poor road chosen I always feel, and even today would feel that rejoining the Union would be a great step. Consign the Republic eperiment as a sort of prodigal son mistake.
I am sure many felt the same 100 years ago, but got carried away by the secessionist rhetoric. And lived to regret it.

I'm afraid very few Irish people were truly 'part of' the richest and most powerful nation on earth. In name only. Certainly a peasant catholic who's children attend a hedge school and is taxed for a window in his hut, so called daylight robbery, wouldn't feel part of a great empire. Likewise the Whig government's Laissez Faire approach to the Irish famine would not have been policy had the famine been in Britain. It was a chance to depopulate the country of the labouring classes. To quote the London Times gleeful report on the famine mass emigration 'They are going! They are going! The Irish are going with a vengeance. Soon a Celt will be as rare in Ireland as a Red Indian on the shores of Manhattan.' That's the reality of how many Irish and Celts were treasured as 'part' of the empire. So some of the great empire builders who post here come from a far different background to me and many Irish. The empire did more harm than good for us.

Of course a small group of Irish people benefited from being in the empire. It also must be said that being part of the richest country on earth didn't do a whole lot for the working classes of England, Wales and Scotland either.

So it would be all fun and games rejoining the empire? The truth is, under UK or Irish rule, the majority of us would be in much the same financial position. I suppose i'd rather be ruled badly by Irish men than ruled badly by British men!

IrishWelshCelt

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The clowns that wrote quoted Pearse's last letter to his mother in it he never mentioned the Kaiser, is this some justification to let the brits off with the slaughter.

That whole section with the court martial and the letter are actually bang on historically accurate. Have a read of Sean Enrights book 'The Easter Rising Trials'.

Firstly its clear in court yer man is paraphrasing Pearse in what he says. But Pearse on his last letter wrote on the outside of it a big 'PS' where he knew the soldiers handling the letter would see it. The PS read something along the lines of 'I heard the german expedition I had arranged tried to land but got held up' (roughly speaking, I dont have the book to hand).

As the actor states this condemned Pearse and his friends to death, under Field General Court Marshall laws only aiding the enemy was a capital crime. So essentially Pearse wrote his own and 14 other mens death warrants with that decision. As the episode states Pearse was qualified in law (though only took 2 cases) so he was certainly aware of the legal implications surrounding it.

IrishWelshCelt

PeterTheEighth wrote: »

I think it's meant to be ironic, that he is considered such a small player, a nobody.

He was small time, he was aide-de-camp to Plunkett.

KingBrian2

Watched the show with my Mam as you would expect she left to wash the dishes when the sex came on and I had to call her back in when it was over.:o