2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

IrishWelshCelt wrote: »

That whole section with the court martial and the letter are actually bang on historically accurate. Have a read of Sean Enrights book 'The Easter Rising Trials'.

As has everything else people have chosen to be outraged at. If nothing else this series is giving some people an education.

WHL

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

As has everything else people have chosen to be outraged at. If nothing else this series is giving some people an education.

I watched this series for the drama and just assumed that there would be a lot of fictitious stories. I have been surprised at the amount of times in this thread that posters have pointed out its accuracy. Makes this series even better in my mind - have really enjoyed it

josephryan1989

They lost so many opportunities to hit a real emotional punch by recreating some historical scenes of incredible power.

1. The O'Rahilly returning to Dublin to join his comrades to fight in the GPO and his heroic charge up Moore Street when he and his men were cut to ribbons by machine gunfire before he crawled into an alley and wrote goodbye to his wife and kids before dying.

2. Mick Malone fighting a heroic last stand at Northumberland Road. The British officer Dietrichsen meeting his wife and child on the march to Mount Street where he was killed. His colleague Fane with his arm in a sling leading his teenage soldiers into attack after attack and women running into gunfire to help the boys lying in the road crying for water and their mothers.

3. The geeky but noble Joe Plunkett dying of TB marching into the GPO and later facing a firing squad when he marries he marries the beautiful Grace Gifford. A real life Hollywood love story.

4. Pearse falling in love with a girl in Connemara during Irish classes only for her to drown accidentally combined with the financial failure of his St. Enda's School driving him to suicidal blood sacrifice and a hero's death. A publican his wife and daughter emerging into Moore Street with a white flag and being cut down by machine gun bullets and Pearse shocked to the core before calling a surrender.

4. The city on fire at night with the rebels faces and eyes lit up. The executions with the leaders accepting their deaths perhaps accompanied by Siegfried's Funeral March.

I mean any talented writer and film maker could create an epic but instead they come up with this crap.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

josephryan1989 wrote: »

They lost so many opportunities to hit a real emotional punch by recreating some historical scenes of incredible power.

1. The O'Rahilly returning to Dublin to join his comrades to fight in the GPO and his heroic charge up Moore Street when he and his men were cut to ribbons by machine gunfire before he crawled into an alley and wrote goodbye to his wife and kids before dying.

2. Mick Malone fighting a heroic last stand at Northumberland Road. The British officer Dietrichsen meeting his wife and child on the march to Mount Street where he was killed. His colleague Fane with his arm in a sling leading his teenage soldiers into attack after attack and women running into gunfire to help the boys lying in the road crying for water and their mothers.

3. The geeky but noble Joe Plunkett dying of TB marching into the GPO and later facing a firing squad when he marries he marries the beautiful Grace Gifford. A real life Hollywood love story.

4. Pearse falling in love with a girl in Connemara during Irish classes only for her to drown accidentally combined with the financial failure of his St. Enda's School driving him to suicidal blood sacrifice and a hero's death. A publican his wife and daughter emerging into Moore Street with a white flag and being cut down by machine gun bullets and Pearse shocked to the core before calling a surrender.

4. The city on fire at night with the rebels faces and eyes lit up. The executions with the leaders accepting their deaths perhaps accompanied by Siegfried's Funeral March.

I mean any talented writer and film maker could create an epic but instead they come up with this crap.

And how much tax payers money would it take to make something of that scale while old ladies are on chairs in hospital corridors and the water rates and families living in hotels!

Civil Joe

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

And how much tax payers money would it take to make something of that scale while old ladies are on chairs in hospital corridors and the water rates and families living in hotels!

Probably less that was spent of the current offering of drivel.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Civil Joe wrote: »

Probably less that was spent of the current offering of drivel.

Still can't seem to give me an exact figure on what that was though.

weadick

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

And how much tax payers money would it take to make something of that scale while old ladies are on chairs in hospital corridors and the water rates and families living in hotels!

Are you in some way connected to the makers of this program? You're providing the biggest one man defense of a farce since Eoghan Harris!

I simply can't understand how people actually think this is good? It's an absolute shambles! Sub Mills & Boon nonsense! And a horrendous waste of an opportunity. I rarely agree with Ian O'Doherty but he got it spot on in his review in the Independent.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

weadick wrote: »

Are you in some way connected to the makers of this program? You're providing the biggest one man defense of a farce since Eoghan Harris!

I simply can't understand how people actually think this is good? It's an absolute shambles! Sub Mills & Boon nonsense! And a horrendous waste of an opportunity. I rarely agree with Ian O'Doherty but he got it spot on in his review in the Independent.

I'm not defending the program, except when I feel people are being unfair. There's plenty they could have done better, the writing for example is pretty poor at times. May's storyline with the English guy and his wife seems pretty unnecessary also.

What I am doing is calling out the many idiotic comments form people who seem to have no real opinions on it beyond comparing it to Downton Abbey or Fair City. If they're your only frames of reference for TV I can't hold your (not you personally) opinion too highly.

I don't think anyone is claiming it's the best thing ever to air on Irish TV. Neither is it the worst. Most people's problems seem to be it's not about what they want it to be about in which case I have to ask why they still watch. If you wanted a show about the leaders it was obvious from the start that's not what it was about. So why spend five weeks of your life watching it and then posting the same complaints every week? And if you are going to do that, which you have every right to, you can't be offended or annoyed when other posters get fed up of the same nonsense clogging up the thread every week and making any actual conversation on the program impossible.

josephryan1989

I do not see the point of the caddish brother.
I was hoping he would be swept up in the Rising and join the rebels and fight alongside his sister and Jimmy and become a hero after a lifetime of being a layabout. Instead he is a pantomime villain like Billy Zane in Titanic. In Titanic Zane set up Jack as a diamond thief and in Rebellion poor sweet little Minny is being framed for theft while she takes a day off to pay for her little brother's funeral after he was killed in the Rising.

The sweet hearted nordie girl is a rubbish character. She turns up to find her beloved lawyer just as 1916 happens and then finds empowerment by becoming a nurse helping the wounded. Couldn't they had some tragedy where she gets caught in the crossfire on O'Connell Street when the lancers turn up and is killed dying in her beloved's arms?

Civil Joe

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I do not see the point of the caddish brother.
I was hoping he would be swept up in the Rising and join the rebels and fight alongside his sister and Jimmy and become a hero after a lifetime of being a layabout. Instead he is a pantomime villain like Billy Zane in Titanic. In Titanic Zane set up Jack as a diamond thief and in Rebellion poor sweet little Minny is being framed for theft while she takes a day off to pay for her little brother's funeral after he was killed in the Rising.

This^^^^

Cut out this horse ****e and give us a decent storyline.

Replace the cost of above with the cost of some serious and RELEVANT stories from the rising.

Tickle Me Elmo seems satisfied with this type of rubbishy storyline. Good for him. But many are not and are shockingly disappointed at the drivel served up !

listermint

I enjoyed it tbh,


There are those who are serial complainers, They wont like anything regardless of 'what is served up'

as this thread highlights

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Civil Joe wrote: »

This^^^^

Cut out this horse ****e and give us a decent storyline.

Replace the cost of above with the cost of some serious and RELEVANT stories from the rising.

Tickle Me Elmo seems satisfied with this type of rubbishy storyline. Good for him. But many are not and are shockingly disappointed at the drivel served up !

First of all I'm a she not a he.

Second of all I've pointed out multiple times which parts of the story aren't working for me. I've said from the very first episode the brother is pointless and unnecessary and easily the worst character. I've said repeatedly that the two from Belfast seem to serve no real purpose other than to illustrate it was an all Ireland affair at the time.

Also kind of hilarious that with all the complaints about the "Mills & Boon" like nature of it someone thinks the Belfast girl should die in her beloved's arms and that would improve things.

Some of you seem to pay as much attention to other people's posts as you do to the program itself. I'm getting sick of saying I don't have a problem with people not liking the show.

Civil Joe

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

First of all I'm a she not a he.

Second of all I've pointed out multiple times which parts of the story aren't working for me. I've said from the very first episode the brother is pointless and unnecessary and easily the worst character. I've said repeatedly that the two from Belfast seem to serve no real purpose other than to illustrate it was an all Ireland affair at the time.

Also kind of hilarious that with all the complaints about the "Mills & Boon" like nature of it someone thinks the Belfast girl should die in her beloved's arms and that would improve things.

Some of you seem to pay as much attention to other people's posts as you do to the program itself. I'm getting sick of saying I don't have a problem with people not liking the show.

Well it seems to me you do have an issue with any opinion that doesn't mirror your own fanboi/gurl opinion.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I have to wonder if so many of you think so little of it why are you still watching it three episodes in? Just so you have something to whinge about?

Or did you only tune in for this one episode without having seen the first two, just so you could have something to whinge about?

listermint

Civil Joe wrote: »

Well it seems to me you do have an issue with any opinion that doesn't mirror your own fanboi/gurl opinion.

lol,



Serial Complainer.....

Strazdas

IrishWelshCelt wrote: »

That whole section with the court martial and the letter are actually bang on historically accurate. Have a read of Sean Enrights book 'The Easter Rising Trials'.

Firstly its clear in court yer man is paraphrasing Pearse in what he says. But Pearse on his last letter wrote on the outside of it a big 'PS' where he knew the soldiers handling the letter would see it. The PS read something along the lines of 'I heard the german expedition I had arranged tried to land but got held up' (roughly speaking, I dont have the book to hand).

As the actor states this condemned Pearse and his friends to death, under Field General Court Marshall laws only aiding the enemy was a capital crime. So essentially Pearse wrote his own and 14 other mens death warrants with that decision. As the episode states Pearse was qualified in law (though only took 2 cases) so he was certainly aware of the legal implications surrounding it.

That was one of the most striking parts of last night's episode. The rebel leaders could only be executed if they were accused of treason and Pearse went out of his way to make this happen. It suggests he went into Easter week with the sole intention of dying and being a martyr for Ireland.

Utopia Parkway

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I do not see the point of the caddish brother.

He's actually had a lot of screen time for what is essentially a bit of a nothing story. Had they cut his part out along with all the love triangle nonsense they would have plenty more time to devote to all the important stuff they left out.

wawaman

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

He's actually had a lot of screen time for what is essentially a bit of a nothing story. Had they cut his part out along with all the love triangle nonsense they would have plenty more time to devote to all the important stuff they left out.

I think if they had made this a pure docu-drama then it probably would not have gotten the 9.30 Sunday ratings. So to appeal to the Sunday night demographic they had to include a love story and turn it into essentially a soap with a bit of bother going on in the background

Strazdas

wawaman wrote: »

I think if they had made this a pure docu-drama then it probably would not have gotten the 9.30 Sunday ratings. So to appeal to the Sunday night demographic they had to include a love story and turn it into essentially a soap with a bit of bother going on in the background

I think some people have been using "soap" as if it's almost a dirty word. Many a period or historical drama has had a love interest angle and focus on personal relationships.

A purely political / military conflict type docudrama about the Rising could have ended up being very boring for the average viewer.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Civil Joe wrote: »

Well it seems to me you do have an issue with any opinion that doesn't mirror your own fanboi/gurl opinion.

You're obviously not reading all my posts if that's what you think. You seem incapable or accepting some people don't have as many issues with it as you have. Or that some people want to actually discuss what's happening on the program and not just repeat the same complaints every week.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

That was one of the most striking parts of last night's episode. The rebel leaders could only be executed if they were accused of treason and Pearse went out of his way to make this happen. It suggests he went into Easter week with the sole intention of dying and being a martyr for Ireland.

Some people who seem to know their stuff on twitter were discussing this last night and the general consensus seems to be that the leaders were going to be executed whatever evidence the British did or didn't have but Pearse did put a random p.s. at the end of his letter to his mother mentioning the Germans and that seems to have been his intention. He does mention in that same letter that he's perfectly happy to die and wants to.
Lots of people complaining that they were trying to imply that Pearse got them all executed but I think you can interpret those scenes two ways. I thought the Belfast guy was trying to get it done fairly and not have them executed but the other army guy was making it clear that the powers that be would have them executed with or without evidence anyway so Pearse's letter just made it harder for anyone to question it.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Some people who seem to know their stuff on twitter were discussing this last night and the general consensus seems to be that the leaders were going to be executed whatever evidence the British did or didn't have but Pearse did put a random p.s. at the end of his letter to his mother mentioning the Germans and that seems to have been his intention. He does mention in that same letter that he's perfectly happy to die and wants to.
Lots of people complaining that they were trying to imply that Pearse got them all executed but I think you can interpret those scenes two ways. I thought the Belfast guy was trying to get it done fairly and not have them executed but the other army guy was making it clear that the powers that be would have them executed with or without evidence anyway so Pearse's letter just made it harder for anyone to question it.

It was always my understanding that the leaders were executed because the British wanted them executed, particularly General Maxwell (apparently Asquith and his government became very alarmed at what was happening and eventually had to give him direct orders to stop the killings).

I read somewhere that Connolly knew at the start of the week that the Rising would result in his death, so it seems nobody was under any illusions. It was just that last night's episode made it 'seem' like there was a way out for the leaders if only they would play ball but on the other hand Maxwell appears to have gone about the executions with gusto and enthusiasm.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

I read somewhere that Connolly knew at the start of the week that the Rising would result in his death, so it seems nobody was under any illusions. It was just that last night's episode made it 'seem' like there was a way out for the leaders if only they would play ball but on the other hand Maxwell appears to have gone about the executions with gusto and enthusiasm.

That's what I mean though, you could interpret those scenes either way.

I think they made it fairly clear that the British were doing everything they could to make sure they were executed. Having a military style hearing, no defence for the accused etc.
Pearse's letter made it easier for them but I don't think they meant to imply he had actually dropped them all in it. The Belfast guy who seemed to have a misguided belief that he could get things done above board may have thought Pearse had dropped them all in it, as others at the time may have.

What is certain though is that Pearse set out to die himself and his letter seemed to be making sure he did.


EDIT: This week's "Was that historically accurate?" article on The Journal is about this very issue. (the answer is always yes)
http://www.thejournal.ie/rte-rebellion-pearse-2565840-Jan2016/

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That's what I mean though, you could interpret those scenes either way.

I think they made it fairly clear that the British were doing everything they could to make sure they were executed. Having a military style hearing, no defence for the accused etc.
Pearse's letter made it easier for them but I don't think they meant to imply he had actually dropped them all in it. The Belfast guy who seemed to have a misguided belief that he could get things done above board may have thought Pearse had dropped them all in it, as others at the time may have.

What is certain though is that Pearse set out to die himself and his letter seemed to be making sure he did.


EDIT: This week's "Was that historically accurate?" article on The Journal is about this very issue. (the answer is always yes)
http://www.thejournal.ie/rte-rebellion-pearse-2565840-Jan2016/

Interesting that the issue is nowhere near as clearcut as the keyboard warriors on Twitter claim, and that Rebellion may even be somewhat justified by pursuing that angle.

Even if Pearse wanted to die, he may well have assumed that the execution of the others was a foregone conclusion (and perhaps it was in fact, I imagine the British would have found whatever loophole necessary to justify the executions).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

Interesting that the issue is nowhere near as clearcut as the keyboard warriors on Twitter claim, and that Rebellion may even be somewhat justified by pursuing that angle.

Even if Pearse wanted to die, he may well have assumed that the execution of the others was a foregone conclusion (and perhaps it was in fact, I imagine the British would have found whatever loophole necessary to justify the executions).

Every week twitter is up in arms about something. Last week it was singing the anthem in English, the week before it was the locals looting. All of which is historically accurate.

Last night I tweeted something like "Did they imply Pearse got them all killed?" as a genuine question. It got a couple of RT's and likes and when I looked at the accounts doing it they were all up in arms and assumed I was too.

In hindsight we can see that it was used as evidence against others, we can also see they were going to be executed one way or another. At the time though, to someone like the Belfast lawyer guy, it would probably have seemed very much like Pearse had just guaranteed they'd all die.

I've said it before but if nothing else this program is serving as a real eye opener to how poorly educated most of us are on this event.

josephryan1989

In the show last night Pearse writes to give his thanks and earnest regards to his good friend the Kaiser as a postscript in his final goodbye letter to his mother.

In fact Pearse wrote:

"P. S. I understand that the German expedition which I was counting on actually set sail but was defeated by the British."

This refers to a bombardment of Yarmouth and Lowestoft by a battlecruiser squadron accompanied by cruisers and destroyers commanded by Rear Admiral Friedrich Bodicker.

At the same time Zeppellins bombed Norwich, Lincoln, Harwich and Ipswich.

During the battle two British light cruisers were hit and one submarine was sunk while on land 200 houses were shelled. One German cruiser was hit and two German submarines were lost - one sunk and one captured. 25 British were killed including civilians and 19 were wounded. The Germans lost 11 dead.

This all happened on 24 April 1916 - the first day of the Easter Rising.

josephryan1989

The officer who ordered Thomas Clarke stripped naked was Percival Lea Wilson who was later shot in Gorey Co. Wexford by a gang led by Frank Thornton and Liam Tobin.

Lea Wilson's wife Mary who came from Charlville Co. Cork worked as a paedotrician in Dublin for decades. She purchased an oil painting in Scotland which she donated to the Catholic Church. It was later discovered to be the famous The Taking of Christ by Caravaggio which now hangs in the National Gallery in Dublin.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Did they film at the Pro Cathedral? I was walking past today and it kind of looks like the exterior they used for when Liz and the other girl were looking after the wounded in the the church.

Also, is the guy who keeps coming after the useless brother for money yer man from he EBS ad? Down there for dancing? Couldn't quite see him properly last night but I thought it kind of looked like him.

nagdefy

josephryan1989 wrote: »

In the show last night Pearse writes to give his thanks and earnest regards to his good friend the Kaiser as a postscript in his final goodbye letter to his mother.

In fact Pearse wrote:

"P. S. I understand that the German expedition which I was counting on actually set sail but was defeated by the British."

This refers to a bombardment of Yarmouth and Lowestoft by a battlecruiser squadron accompanied by cruisers and destroyers commanded by Rear Admiral Friedrich Bodicker.

At the same time Zeppellins bombed Norwich, Lincoln, Harwich and Ipswich.

During the battle two British light cruisers were hit and one submarine was sunk while on land 200 houses were shelled. One German cruiser was hit and two German submarines were lost - one sunk and one captured. 25 British were killed including civilians and 19 were wounded. The Germans lost 11 dead.

This all happened on 24 April 1916 - the first day of the Easter Rising.

Correct me if i'm wrong Joseph but were about 300 to 400 Irish men, of the Irish 16th division, gassed and killed at Hulluch in France on the 27th April, Easter Week. Fighting for Home Rule, money, adventure, the King, poor little Belgium and a myriad of reasons. A lot of Irish casualties that week at home and abroad

KingBrian2

That scene they had of Tom Clarke was disgusting. I don't see why after treaty negotiations as part of the agreement British officers and the Black & Tans were not put before an Irish court-martial.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That scene they had of Tom Clarke was disgusting. I don't see why after treaty negotiations as part of the agreement British officers and the Black & Tans were not put before an Irish court-martial.

Not sure they would have been too keen to agree to that. They could have asked for the same in return too. Best off leaving it. Yer man that stripped Clarke was taken care of by Collins' men anyway.