2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

Strazdas

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It's interesting that most posters here are into their history. Some of my friends aren't interested in history and have struggled to follow certain parts. If they were to follow historical characters, then this would be even more keenly felt. There are just too many of them. Somebody suggested a few pages back how it would be great to have a scene where the o'rahilly shows up saying he's going to fight. That's fine if you've a decent knowledge of 1916 but for the casual viewer, they wouldn't have a clue who he was! And there's a hell of a lot to fit in without fitting in his back story as well. I'm not sure it would be too feasible to follow historical characters.

I like this show. It's not as good as strumpet City which I think probably portrays Dublin of that time better and has some wonderfully memorable characters. I'll always remember rashers tierney. However, I doubt I will remember any of the characters of rebellion in 10 years time. In saying that, I think it's a decent show and am curious to what happens them. I will certainly watch to the end and based on previous episodes, will probably enjoy it.

My verdict: good, watchable but not up to the standard of strumpet City.

If they've made a mistake, perhaps they've gone with too few episodes. Strumpet City was a seven parter and I think Rebellion may have benefited from seven episodes too, it may have given us more time to get the know the main characters before the Rising kicks off. For example, we know very little about 'why' Elizabeth and Jimmy have acted as they have done.

TCDStudent1

Strazdas wrote: »

If they've made a mistake, perhaps they've gone with too few episodes. Strumpet City was a seven parter and I think Rebellion may have benefited from seven episodes too, it may have given us more time to get the know the main characters before the Rising kicks off. For example, we know very little about 'why' Elizabeth and Jimmy have acted as they have done.

Well we know jimmy is black listed and can't work. That's a pretty good reason to be disillusioned and to become involved in a socialist movement.

Elizabeth is a bit more complicated alright.

TCDStudent1

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Tom Clarke was tortured and so was your man Gleeson's son given an awful beating than hugged.

His brother hit him a few times. That's not being tortured

Strazdas

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Well we know jimmy is black listed and can't work. That's a pretty good reason to be disillusioned and to become involved in a socialist movement.

Elizabeth is a bit more complicated alright.

Elizabeth did say in Episode 1 that she is a socialist and she is disgusted at how the rich treat the poor in Ireland. Perhaps it might have been helpful to have seen a bit more of this though.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Tom Clarke was tortured and so was your man Gleeson's son given an awful beating than hugged.

He was humiliated, not tortured. Jimmy got punched a few times. You probably shouldn't bother ever watching 12 Years a Slave if that's what you think torture is.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

Elizabeth did say in Episode 1 that she is a socialist and she is disgusted at how the rich treat the poor in Ireland. Perhaps it might have been helpful to have seen a bit more of this though.

Her mother also seems to have a bit more awareness of the common folk than the father, which presumably influenced Elizabeth but we're kind of filling in the blanks ourselves there. She may well have been radicalized by people at college.

wawaman

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Undoubtedly? Collins was well on his way to becoming a military tyrant like Mussolini when he was thankfully shot. The Dublin Guard and his Squad were his praetorians and his designated successor was Eoin O'Duffy. He betrayed Ireland when he signed the Treaty without consulting with President DeValera. He followed the orders of the British when he shelled the Four Courts and if he had lived he probably would have presided over the executions of the 77 Republicans just as Richard Mulcahy did when he took command.

De Valera completed the Irish Revolution when he stood up to the British during the Economic War doing away with annuities and getting back our ports dismantled the Free State and introduced Bunreacht na hEireann in 1937 and kept us out of World War 2 avoiding an Anglo-American military occupation like that in Iceland and Greenland.

Lay off the Scooby snacks

KingBrian2

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He was humiliated, not tortured. Jimmy got punched a few times. You probably shouldn't bother ever watching 12 Years a Slave if that's what you think torture is.

Just because it was only beatings does not subtract from the fact that is was torture. The beatings and humiliations were designed to make the volunteers helpless.

gunny

josephryan1989 wrote: »

But Pearse DID use child soldiers and the British DID strip Thomas Clarke naked.

And Michael Collins did exactly what he said and they did get that British officer for his treatment of Clarke.

nagdefy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Go away out of that with your revisionist history.

The revisionist history was making a God of Collins over the last 25 years or so. I have great admiration for Collins and regard Dev as a bit of a snake at best. But Collins was a bit of a hothead, stopping to fight at Beal na Bláth and leaving the shelter of the armoured car was foolish and a little egotistical. And this wrestling craic and his 'getting a bit of ear' makes him look like a gobsh**te to me. Young, good looking, a bit uncouth, having the ladies after him and dying young enhanced his hero status. He was a great man..but also a very dangerous man and who knows how corrupt he would have become with absolute power. By this i'm in no way putting Dev on a pedestal. But in their struggle their were two of them in it. And often their part in the Irish freedom struggle, particularly Collins, is overstated to the detriment of many great contemporary patriots.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

nagdefy wrote: »

The revisionist history was making a God of Collins over the last 25 years or so. I have great admiration for Collins and regard Dev as a bit of a snake at best. But Collins was a bit of a hothead, stopping to fight at Beal na Bláth and leaving the shelter of the armoured car was foolish and a little egotistical. And this wrestling craic and his 'getting a bit of ear' makes him look like a gobsh**te to me. Young, good looking, a bit uncouth, having the ladies after him and dying young enhanced his hero status. He was a great man..but also a very dangerous man and who knows how corrupt he would have become with absolute power. By this i'm in no way putting Dev on a pedestal. But in their struggle their were two of them in it. And often their part in the Irish freedom struggle, particularly Collins, is overstated to the detriment of many great contemporary patriots.

1 - that post was a joke.

2 - this has nothing to do with the program and there have been 2 mod warnings already about the history lessons so I'm not getting into any of that.

nagdefy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

1 - that post was a joke.

2 - this has nothing to do with the program and there have been 2 mod warnings already about the history lessons so I'm not getting into any of that.

I posted before i read the mod warnings. The post is far from a joke. Don't take it so personally. One can post here with around 10 posts just the same as you with your 13,000 plus.

Collins is a sacred cow to you i see. Get over it.

gunny

I know this sounds petty and has no baring on the story line but the actor playing the British officer picking out men for execution, while aloof looked like he'd fallen out of a tree. His uniform was all over the place , the chin strap on his cap was loose, his tie crooked and his tunic in a deplorable state. Continuity obviously wasnt an important part of the production as a Senior officer in the British Army would not have presented himself in that state. Examine any photographs of the period and you will see well turned out officers in all cases. Had a private presented himself like that he would have been on a charge. In the Northumberland Rd ambush Jimmy asks Francis for the Mauser when its already in his hand and she exchanges it for the Lee Enfield.
Its not rocket science to do things right

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

nagdefy wrote: »

I posted before i read the mod warnings. The post is far from a joke. Don't take it so personally. One can post here with around 10 posts just the same as you with your 13,000 plus.

Collins is a sacred cow to you i see. Get over it.

You're not making any sense. My post was a joke. You responded to it with a history lesson we were told to cut out. I was just telling you there was no point in replying to it due to mod warnings.

I couldn't give two hoots about Collins, Dev or anyone else. And I have no idea what post counts have to do with it.

The Black Oil

In 2116 RTE will commission a series based on the warring factions in this thread. :pac:

nagdefy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You're not making any sense. My post was a joke. You responded to it with a history lesson we were told to cut out. I was just telling you there was no point in replying to it due to mod warnings.

I couldn't give two hoots about Collins, Dev or anyone else. And I have no idea what post counts have to do with it.

Apologies i get you now Elmo, that your initial post was a joke. I thought you were calling mine a joke! Thinking you were calling mine a joke felt like a put down to someone new to the forum, hence my reference to number of posts.

nagdefy

Regarding the show, i'm quite enjoying it. I think all strands of society and political thinking are being represented and the show is historically accurate enough for me. It being a drama it's doing what it says on the tin.

topmanamillion

Pure tripe, gave up midway through episode 2.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

topmanamillion wrote: »

Pure tripe, gave up midway through episode 2.

Then waited two weeks to give us that insight.

Strazdas

nagdefy wrote: »

Regarding the show, i'm quite enjoying it. I think all strands of society and political thinking are being represented and the show is historically accurate enough for me. It being a drama it's doing what it says on the tin.

And look at the healthy debate it's generating here. I'm getting a bit tired of the snooty TV critics bashing it to pieces too.....God knows what sort of TV drama about the Rising could have kept them happy.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes because the Union worked so well when 2m died in the famine and another 2m had to leave the country didnt it?:rolleyes:

This is the simplistic cause and effect mistake that was made at the time too.A wholehearted buy-in to the United Kingdom was the great missed opportunity.

About half a million of those who left the island didnt really leave the country as it was, they went to England and Scotland.

josephryan1989

Strazdas wrote: »

And look at the healthy debate it's generating here. I'm getting a bit tired of the snooty TV critics bashing it to pieces too.....God knows what sort of TV drama about the Rising could have kept them happy.

A good TV drama rather than a crap one?

The Rape of Lucretia

Ep 4 was pretty good and the overall series is well done. Avoiding getting caught up in a docudrama of the detail of the events, or the leaders and personalities, is a very good choice. Giving a broad brush picture of the inhabitants of the city is working very well, presenting all the various aspects, views, and classes.

It does need to be judged as a whole and on its own terms, rather than on each episode, or on what people's expectations or hopes were for the dramatisation of events that are part of our history, and still echo to our views of ourselves today. On a hiding to nothing really, tackling an event that still provokes strong views.

For me, it does make the blood boil at the handful of violent thugs who steered us away from the Union, and the loss of the country we could have been.

Not bad TV drama at all.

The Rape of Lucretia

weadick wrote: »

A silly production about three silly women who didn't actually exist. Tearing up the history book for the sake of making good drama is fine as long as the end justifies the means. This is little more than Mills & Boon does 1916.

Unhistorical ****.

Watch a documentary or read a book if you want history.

This is drama giving a feel for a time, a place, and its people.

Criticising a banana for not tasking like an apple is nonsense.

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Brian Gleeson is fairly amateurish. If you're going to criticise the acting be honest. The guy playing his brother is probably the best actor in it. All Gleeson did in that scene was get punched and then hug him. All the emotion came from the other guy. Compare that to Gleeson's big scene last week where he looked like he was badly constipated.

I don't think the women are bad actors, the writing is pretty poor at times though which can't help.

Gleeson is OK. But yes, That Other Guy is very good. Best actor in it I think.

Strazdas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A good TV drama rather than a crap one?

I see it has a user rating of 7.2 on IMDB which is eminently respectable - the much vaunted Love Hate and described by the luvvies in the media as the greatest Irish TV series ever is on 8.4.

The Rape of Lucretia

Strazdas wrote: »

You could see the British arrogance coming through very clearly post-insurrection ("Showing your true colours at last" as Connolly aptly put it to Hammond). It does explain the context of how the country moved towards Sinn Fein firstly and then a violent war of independence three years later.

This still jars. The Irish being victims of a Machiavellian manipulation of themselves by Pierce et al by this provocation of the British in order to foment antipathy towards them is cynical in the extreme. It is embarrassing that our forefather didnt see through this ploy, and allowed the rebels to pursue their own little aims so easily.

The Rape of Lucretia

josephryan1989 wrote: »

They lost so many opportunities to hit a real emotional punch by recreating some historical scenes of incredible power.

1. The O'Rahilly returning to Dublin to join his comrades to fight in the GPO and his heroic charge up Moore Street when he and his men were cut to ribbons by machine gunfire before he crawled into an alley and wrote goodbye to his wife and kids before dying.

2. Mick Malone fighting a heroic last stand at Northumberland Road. The British officer Dietrichsen meeting his wife and child on the march to Mount Street where he was killed. His colleague Fane with his arm in a sling leading his teenage soldiers into attack after attack and women running into gunfire to help the boys lying in the road crying for water and their mothers.

3. The geeky but noble Joe Plunkett dying of TB marching into the GPO and later facing a firing squad when he marries he marries the beautiful Grace Gifford. A real life Hollywood love story.

4. Pearse falling in love with a girl in Connemara during Irish classes only for her to drown accidentally combined with the financial failure of his St. Enda's School driving him to suicidal blood sacrifice and a hero's death. A publican his wife and daughter emerging into Moore Street with a white flag and being cut down by machine gun bullets and Pearse shocked to the core before calling a surrender.

4. The city on fire at night with the rebels faces and eyes lit up. The executions with the leaders accepting their deaths perhaps accompanied by Siegfried's Funeral March.

I mean any talented writer and film maker could create an epic but instead they come up with this crap.

This is the mistake of those criticising the series. It did not set out to portray these folkloric events. It is a tale of the various averages of Irish people caught up the sweep.

A missed road I though for a moment they were going down and would have liked it : Frances the coward. Slinking away. Peter-like, denying knowing the boy, and getting away with her crimes. Not having the conviction of Pierce say to the cause.

mick malones mauser

Its a woefully bad attempt to portray the events of 1916.
Terrible pity because it really is a story worth telling no matter what your political views.
The acting is generally poor, the sets abysmal, the gleeson character must have been some boyo, in city hall fighting at the start where is own brother captures him and let's him go. Gpo next for a bit more then over to the mount street bridge/ Northumberland road battle and back to the Gpo in time to surrender. Such nonsense, but he is Brendan s son so he needs to use up most of the budget I suppose, and charlie Murphy running off in her wedding dress to take part in the revolutionary action.
Dreadful nonsense, of course they will probably award each other 20 iftas.
Do we still have iftas?

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

What I am doing is calling out the many idiotic comments form people who seem to have no real opinions on it beyond comparing it to Downton Abbey or Fair City. If they're your only frames of reference for TV I can't hold your (not you personally) opinion too highly.

Indeed. Anyone trotting out the Downton line is not watching it at all, but is only superficially seeing British dress of 1916 and making a link to Downton.
Sloppy folks. Sloppy.