2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

KingBrian2

The Lego 1916 film was great. They did a wonderful job.

maudgonner

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Actually the Rubber Bandits did a very good history of the rising
much better than Rebellion and funnier and the sets were more authentic ...but the big plus was NO BLOODY GLEESONS.

Up the Republic

How do you know, Mick? Under those plastic bags there could be secret Gleesons lurking :eek:

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

maudgonner wrote: »

How do you know, Mick? Under those plastic bags there could be secret Gleesons lurking :eek:

I don't get this guy's problem with the Gleesons. Brendan is one of the finest actors we've ever produced. Domhnall is one of the most in demand actors in Hollywood at the moment. Neither of them have been particularly prominent on Irish TV, as far as I know. It's not like they're the cast of Love/Hate popping up in everything.

(I know Brian was in Love/Hate way back when but he hasn't been in much else, has he?)

Strazdas

mick malones mauser wrote: »

No Elmo
I am all for objectivity,I am a very balanced objective person who would be well aware of both sides
However I do not suffer from post colonial self loathing which seems to afflict a lot of my compatriots.

I think what you refer to as post colonial self loathing may stem from the fact that we ended up with a far from perfect country post-independence. The first forty years or so of the state were a horrendous time with widespread poverty and mass emigration and a country dominated by the Catholic Church.

The "non-revisionist" version trotted out by the media in 1966 was of a brutal oppressive regime being shaken off by a small bunch of heroic men who won us our freedom - not much mention of the fact that the new Irish state was very harsh and repressive in it's own way. At least Rebellion is showing that the situation in Ireland in early 1916 was extremely complex and nuanced.

TCDStudent1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I don't get this guy's problem with the Gleesons. Brendan is one of the finest actors we've ever produced. Domhnall is one of the most in demand actors in Hollywood at the moment. Neither of them have been particularly prominent on Irish TV, as far as I know. It's not like they're the cast of Love/Hate popping up in everything.

(I know Brian was in Love/Hate way back when but he hasn't been in much else, has he?)

I doubt you are the only one struggling to understand it.

KingBrian2

Strazdas wrote: »

I think what you refer to as post colonial self loathing may stem from the fact that we ended up with a far from perfect country post-independence. The first forty years or so of the state were a horrendous time with widespread poverty and mass emigration and a country dominated by the Catholic Church.

The "non-revisionist" version trotted out by the media in 1966 was of a brutal oppressive regime being shaken off by a small bunch of heroic men who won us our freedom - not much mention of the fact that the new Irish state was very harsh and repressive in it's own way. At least Rebellion is showing that the situation in Ireland in early 1916 was extremely complex and nuanced.

Nobody said we were perfect but we were better off. Look at other colonies of the Empire. Their fortunes vary greatly but the one constant is they were embroiled in wars after independence. Israel, Pakistan, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa & Cyprus. The list goes on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Nobody said we were perfect but we were better off. Look at other colonies of the Empire. Their fortunes vary greatly but the one constant is they were embroiled in wars after independence. Israel, Pakistan, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa & Cyprus. The list goes on.

Did we not have a bit of an auld Civil War post independence? Not to mention the whole Northern Ireland issue.

Australia has never had a war? Unless you're talking about their involvement in Vietnam, or the World Wars, which have very little to do with their independence. Australia have only really been independent since 1986, definitely no wars since then.

mick malones mauser

Gleesons out north and south
But the fools the fools they have left us our fenian gleesons and while ireland holds these gleesons, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace.
Chill people it's only a bit of post gleeson revisionism

KingBrian2

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Did we not have a bit of an auld Civil War post independence? Not to mention the whole Northern Ireland issue.

Australia has never had a war? Unless you're talking about their involvement in Vietnam, or the World Wars, which have very little to do with their independence. Australia have only really been independent since 1986, definitely no wars since then.

Yes I include WW2. Also I am not including the Civil War as it was an internal war as for Northern Ireland it is not classified as a war, we never sent troops into the six counties I suppose you could get away with calling it a intelligence war. More of a civil rights/British civil war.

Fact still remains all though you could potential include NI all British colonies were involved a major war following independence.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Yes I include WW2. Also I am not including the Civil War as it was an internal war as for Northern Ireland it is not classified as a war, we never sent troops into the six counties I suppose you could get away with calling it a intelligence war. More of a civil rights/British civil war.

Fact still remains all though you could potential include NI all British colonies were involved a major war following independence.

Half the world were involved in WW1 and WW2, ones that had no involvement with Britain at all. What a bizarre/inaccurate fact to try and make your point with.

As I pointed out Australia have only been truly independent since 1986, so have not been involved in any major war.

The issues with Palestine/Israel and India/Pakistan are post colonial issues but they're down to the British just upping sticks and leaving without any proper programs in place for independence. Which is pretty much what happened here. We were 20-30 years behind countries like the US or UK for decades, up until the 2000's really, but hey, it was our own people responsible for it so that's fine.

mick malones mauser

Anyway, is this discussion not meant to be about the quality of the drama rather than the politics.
So on that note could I just as a drama it's really really bad.

Strazdas

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Anyway, is this discussion not meant to be about the quality of the drama rather than the politics.
So on that note could I just as a drama it's really really bad.

I would respectfully disagree. Rebellion is far from perfect but it's also far from being a disaster and has many good points. Some of the real life events they have depicted I wasn't even aware of until now.

Strazdas

RTE's managing director says the series is not perfect but he's very happy with it :

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rt%C3%A9-television-chief-defends-rebellion-as-viewer-numbers-fall-1.2512805

Seems a second series is a certainty from the way he is talking.

KingBrian2

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Half the world were involved in WW1 and WW2, ones that had no involvement with Britain at all. What a bizarre/inaccurate fact to try and make your point with.

As I pointed out Australia have only been truly independent since 1986, so have not been involved in any major war.

The issues with Palestine/Israel and India/Pakistan are post colonial issues but they're down to the British just upping sticks and leaving without any proper programs in place for independence. Which is pretty much what happened here. We were 20-30 years behind countries like the US or UK for decades, up until the 2000's really, but hey, it was our own people responsible for it so that's fine.

Yeah lets exclude Iraq war & the Indonesian War.

josephryan1989

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Yes Joseph,I have read Rebels and have purused the interviews contained in the Bureau of Military History,some fascinating stuff contained therein,
A number of the Mount Street garrison did survive but none made it to the GPO that's just fantasy to help the Gleeson pension fund ( look at my user name,maybe I know a thing or two about Mount Street,maybe I don't)
And yes some took part in action at the North Strand and Ballybough as they made their way into the GPO on the Easter Monday but there was little or no tooing and froing between rebel ouposts.
However all that can be tolerated under "dramatic licence" if the thing was any good.
Its not,its useless
Gene Kerrigans new book The Scrap is well worth a read.

I never said the men from Mount Street made it back to the GPO.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Yeah lets exclude Iraq war & the Indonesian War.

I thought we weren't having this conversation any more?

Your argument seems to be that we are a neutral country and all the other countries aren't because they were once British? It makes no sense.

P. Breathnach

Strazdas wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree. Rebellion is far from perfect but it's also far from being a disaster and has many good points. Some of the real life events they have depicted I wasn't even aware of until now.

And they actually slipped in little authentic bits that few people would notice, like the child playing the piano in the street. That reflected a real incident.

Strazdas

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And they actually slipped in little authentic bits that few people would notice, like the child playing the piano in the street. That reflected a real incident.

They certainly seem to have done a lot of background research. The incident involving the humiliation of Thomas Clarke by a British officer does not appear to have been widely known before this week.

mick malones mauser

I am a bit dumbfounded that people weren't aware of some basics about 1916 like the humiliation of Thomas Clarke in the grounds of the rotunda by a British officer ( whose name escapes me but whom Michael Collins had shot a few years later)
The producers threw a few bits like that as if say" look at all the research we have done" name checking constable o brien at the gates of the castle in the opening scene ( he was the first casualty of the uprising) and also referencing the barrister wiley who was coopted by the British for the courts martial
All very good but nothing that a cursory reading of any of the multiple volumes produced about the history of the rising wouldn't reveal.
Basic school stuff really

mick malones mauser

Joseph ryan
Re mount street
Sorry for the mis understanding
I know you didn't claim any one from mount street made it to the Gpo. Obviously having read a bit on the subject you would know that but the producers of this" epic" seem to think differently.
It's awful rubbish, we deserve better

mick malones mauser

Strazdas wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree. Rebellion is far from perfect but it's also far from being a disaster and has many good points. Some of the real life events they have depicted I wasn't even aware of until now.

Strazdas
You should read a few books on the subject or even go online and read some of statements contained in the archive of the military history bureau

The Rape of Lucretia

mick malones mauser wrote: »

I am a bit dumbfounded that people weren't aware of some basics about 1916 like the humiliation of Thomas Clarke.

Hadnt heard of Thomas Clarke himself, let alone basic school stuff like his humiliation.

Shows how educationally excellent the series is I suppose.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

mick malones mauser wrote: »

I am a bit dumbfounded that people weren't aware of some basics about 1916 like the humiliation of Thomas Clarke in the grounds of the rotunda by a British officer ( whose name escapes me but whom Michael Collins had shot a few years later)
The producers threw a few bits like that as if say" look at all the research we have done" name checking constable o brien at the gates of the castle in the opening scene ( he was the first casualty of the uprising) and also referencing the barrister wiley who was coopted by the British for the courts martial
All very good but nothing that a cursory reading of any of the multiple volumes produced about the history of the rising wouldn't reveal.
Basic school stuff really

Oh please. Look at the online reaction to almost every historically accurate thing they've shown. People didn't know the Rising wasn't unanimously supported by the public, they didn't know the national anthem was originally written in English (I didn't know that myself), they didn't know the locals were more interested in looting than helping, that there were Irish people in the British Army fighting against the rebels, that the rebellion was supposed to start on Sunday and was put off until Monday, that it was essentially a massive failure. I could go on.

I've said it before but if nothing else this program has shown there's a serious knowledge gap in Ireland when it comes to 1916.

Strazdas

mick malones mauser wrote: »

I am a bit dumbfounded that people weren't aware of some basics about 1916 like the humiliation of Thomas Clarke in the grounds of the rotunda by a British officer ( whose name escapes me but whom Michael Collins had shot a few years later)
The producers threw a few bits like that as if say" look at all the research we have done" name checking constable o brien at the gates of the castle in the opening scene ( he was the first casualty of the uprising) and also referencing the barrister wiley who was coopted by the British for the courts martial
All very good but nothing that a cursory reading of any of the multiple volumes produced about the history of the rising wouldn't reveal.
Basic school stuff really

Certainly, but don't forget too that they're not intending the series to be a history lesson about the Rising. It's still a drama first and foremost with fictional characters and it's a very fine balancing act to portray their stories and then to add in actual events that happened and some real life people like Pearse, Connolly and Collins etc.

As others have pointed out, even if they'd gone down the docudrama route, people still wouldn't be happy saying "that didn't happen" and "they've got that part wrong". Having it as a drama series with fictional characters means they can selectively pick and choose which real life scenes to include, rather than it being a five hour history lesson about the Rising.

mick malones mauser

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Hadnt heard of Thomas Clarke himself, let alone basic school stuff like his humiliation.

Shows how educationally excellent the series is I suppose.

No, it shows how uneducated you are unfortunately.
You could probably tell me who won X factor s big brother in the strictly come dancing bun fight though
I despair

mick malones mauser

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Oh please. Look at the online reaction to almost every historically accurate thing they've shown. People didn't know the Rising wasn't unanimously supported by the public, they didn't know the national anthem was originally written in English (I didn't know that myself), they didn't know the locals were more interested in looting than helping, that there were Irish people in the British Army fighting against the rebels, that the rebellion was supposed to start on Sunday and was put off until Monday, that it was essentially a massive failure. I could go on.

I've said it before but if nothing else this program has shown there's a serious knowledge gap in Ireland when it comes to 1916.

Most sensible people don't get involved in these silly online squabbles,
And yes there are an awful lot of stupid people out there, who never read a book and depend on sky news and the sun newspaper for their information. Look at the poor saps in the USA out cheering on trump
God help us

TCDStudent1

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Joseph ryan
Re mount street
Sorry for the mis understanding
I know you didn't claim any one from mount street made it to the Gpo. Obviously having read a bit on the subject you would know that but the producers of this" epic" seem to think differently.
It's awful rubbish, we deserve better

But dont you see why they had that character at so many different places? The people behind Rebellion clearly wanted to show some events away from the GPO (and that makes sense - Dublin castle & Mount St Bridge are worthy of inclusion). But how do you do that? It would not be possible to have more characters as they would have to create a back story for each character. So you would have a back story for a character in the GPO, another back story for a character at Dublin castle, another back story for a character at Mount Street Bridge. And then you have find some way to relate all those stories together! A writer just would not have the time to fit all that in. With Rebllion as it is, there is already some people on here complaining that we dont know enough about the background of the female characters.

KingBrian2

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Hadnt heard of Thomas Clarke himself, let alone basic school stuff like his humiliation.

Shows how educationally excellent the series is I suppose.

No I was not familiar with this. Part of the curriculum in history class did not include some of the unsavoury treatment dished out to the Rebels unlike the post WW2 moralising of the Allied cause. The Germans were not the only war nation to commit war crimes. Japan, USSR and Britain committed atrocities themselves.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Most sensible people don't get involved in these silly online squabbles,
And yes there are an awful lot of stupid people out there, who never read a book and depend on sky news and the sun newspaper for their information. Look at the poor saps in the USA out cheering on trump
God help us

I'm not talking about getting involved, I'm talking about being aware of what the reaction has been so you can make a well informed judgement of how much people did or didn't know.

Calling people stupid for not knowing anything beyond the one sided propaganda we're fed about this period of history is pretty unfair too.

mick malones mauser

Elmo
There are a lot of stupid people out there as well you know.
Do you read the papers? ?
I would suggest reading the irish times, for the last few months they have published many articles on this subject from all points of view.
I am not aware of any one sided propaganda, personally I believe one should always have an open mind