2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

Strazdas

KingBrian2 wrote: »

My God Strazdas one of the leaders is humiliated in a brutal and cowardly way and you think the F word is offensive. My God I don't believe it.

In the context of the year it's set and more particularly who's saying it, yes. If Jimmy or Arthur was to use it or the Collins or Connolly characters, nobody would bat an eyelid (pretty sure we've heard Jimmy swearing several times now). I wouldn't say offensive but a bit jarring to hear the two female leads using it in a one on one conversation.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

In the context of the year it's set and more particularly who's saying it, yes. If Jimmy or Arthur was to use it or the Collins or Connolly characters, nobody would bat an eyelid (pretty sure we've heard Jimmy swearing several times now). I wouldn't say offensive but a bit jarring to hear the two female leads using it in a one on one conversation.

Obviously it's your opinion and that's fine but I find it funny that you've got one women who is dressing up as a man so she can join the rebellion and shooting young lads in the head and another woman who is carrying a married man's baby and them saying "f**k" seems out of place.

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

No. I would prefer a drama that didn't waste all that money on RTE's own Down Town Abbey.

And just what would you know about the freedom of the press in Ireland? To people like you, they are empty and meaningless words to be spouted when trying to establish your hipsterness. Ireland did not have a free press and a democracy needs a free press. But then that's probably too complex a topic for such a thread as this. Bad writing is bad writing and that's the central issue with Down Town Abbey.

Now you probably spent most of the afternoon feverishly trying to craft that little sentence but you made one mistake. You haven't a clue about what I think of the Rising. To put it in simple terms for you, I think it was a clusterf*ck.

Down Town Abbey does not capture this well.

Regards...jmcc

What on earth is with the obsession with Downton Abbey?

You realise the Rising encompassed people from all classes? Do you accept that?

No-one wants to watch 5 episodes of volunteers marching, cleaning their weapons or Pearse propagandising. That would make for the worlds dullest program. I get the feeling your a history buff. If so I'd advise you not to watch dramas like rebellion. The clue is in the title - drama .

KingBrian2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

What on earth is with the obsession with Downton Abbey?

You realise the Rising encompassed people from all classes? Do you accept that?

No-one wants to watch 5 episodes of volunteers marching, cleaning their weapons or Pearse propagandising. That would make for the worlds dullest program. I get the feeling your a history buff. If so I'd advise you not to watch dramas like rebellion. The clue is in the title - drama .

That would be deadly if they did a Downton Abbey- Rebellion mash up. Some character comes over to Dublin and gets dragged into the hostilities and the Downton Abbey crowd going about their normal business reacting to the scene and the news coming back from Dublin. I can picture the scene.

"A right show down over in Ireland my love, a bit of the Fenian uprising." Unnamed women.
"Jolly good show I dare say." Upper class Brit.
"Oh no sir the situation is quite serious the entire City is under armed control by the Insurgents and Army is being called in." Butler.
"You don't say I hope our lad is not caught up in this ghastly affair he only visited Dublin to pick up a book from Trinity." Upper class Brit.

The material would be great to see on tv.

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

have no understanding of Irish history and do not even realise how offensive RTE's Down Town Abbey really is to people outside the Montrose fundament.

Offensive? WFT ? I am sure you are in a tiny minority if you are 'offended' by Rebellion. What has the fundament ever done to you ?


Down Town Abbey. Down Town Abbey. Down Town Abbey. Down Town Abbey...

Jaysus. Give it a rest.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Obviously it's your opinion and that's fine but I find it funny that you've got one women who is dressing up as a man so she can join the rebellion and shooting young lads in the head and another woman who is carrying a married man's baby and them saying "f**k" seems out of place.

But that would have been one of the paradoxes of the era Elmo. The same women who were in Cumann na mBan would almost certainly not have been into casual sex before marriage or swearing as both as those would be seen as "unladylike" : assisting in an armed and violent insurrection was seen as fine though.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That would be deadly if they did a Downton Abbey- Rebellion mash up. Some character comes over to Dublin and gets dragged into the hostilities and the Downton Abbey crowd going about their normal business reacting to the scene and the news coming back from Dublin. I can picture the scene.

"A right show down over in Ireland my love, a bit of the Fenian uprising." Unnamed women.
"Jolly good show I dare say." Upper class Brit.
"Oh no sir the situation is quite serious the entire City is under armed control by the Insurgents and Army is being called in." Butler.
"You don't say I hop our lad is not caught up in this ghastly affair he only visited Dublin to pick up a book from Trinity." Upper class Brit.

The material would be great to see on tv.

They actually covered some of the Irish history of the time on Downton, so you don't have to imagine it if you actually watched it.

Baggy Trousers

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So.... predictions for the last episode?

Everyone lives? Everyone dies? Everyone gets deported to Australia?

I am going to go out on a limb here...

All changes, Changes utterly; A terrible beauty is born.

jmcc

Shurimgreat wrote: »

What on earth is with the obsession with Downton Abbey?

RTE set about making a series about the Rising and it ended up as Down Town Abbey. Perhaps it is a bit too subtle for you.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

What has the fundament ever done to you ?

Two words: Licence Fee.
Two more words: Ruined LyricFM.

Regards...jmcc

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

They actually covered some of the Irish history of the time on Downton, so you don't have to imagine it if you actually watched it.

They did indeed. Branson was a supporter of the Rising and we hear that he joins in with the attacks on the homes of the Anglo-Irish at one point on his return home to Ireland.

And the Countess for her part is bemused that Markiewicz and Lady Gregory are on the side of the rebels

nagdefy

We're all from different backgrounds here so each to their own. I'm sure throughout the year we will have RTE historical documentaries on 1916. A very good one they made about 10 years ago is 'The Man Who Lost Ireland' about General John Maxwell. It's on youtube. Well worth watching. As mentioned by some posters the TG4 documentaries Seachtar Dearmadta and the series about the individuals who signed the Proclaimation are excellent.

I grew up in a place where the vast majority are proud of our struggle for independence and my background is of that ilk. Others don't have that connection with the language, the gaelic culture etc. That's fine different backgrounds. But i'm not just commemorating this year, i'm celebrating.

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

RTE set about making a series about the Rising and it ended up as Down Town Abbey. Perhaps it is a bit too subtle for you.

Regards...jmcc

Either you are a huge Downton Abbey fan or else you have never watched it. Either way you are way off the mark comparing it to Rebellion. So leave your Downton Abbey obsession where it belongs, somewhere else. Your posts are extremely negative. I'd be interested to hear what the writers/producers etc should have done and in detail, as opposed to just dismissing it. I think you are in the minority when you say the writing and so on is bad.

Strazdas

nagdefy wrote: »

We're all from different backgrounds here so each to their own. I'm sure throughout the year we will have RTE historical documentaries on 1916. A very good one they made about 10 years ago is 'The Man Who Lost Ireland' about General John Maxwell. It's on youtube. Well worth watching. As mentioned by some posters the TG4 documentaries Seachtar Dearmadta and the series about the individuals who signed the Proclaimation are excellent.

I grew up in a place where the vast majority are proud of our struggle for independence and my background is of that ilk. Others don't have that connection with the language, the gaelic culture etc. That's fine different backgrounds. But i'm not just commemorating this year, i'm celebrating.

Thanks for the Maxwell link, I'm watching some of it now on Youtube. That period post-Rising is very interesting and to see how the mood in the country started to change.

nagdefy

Strazdas wrote: »

Thanks for the Maxwell link, I'm watching some of it now on Youtube. That period post-Rising is very interesting and to see how the mood in the country started to change.

No problem Strazdas

fonecrusher1

What a load old rubbish this show has been. Utterly disappointing.

nagdefy

On the subject of RTE dramas and documentaries for the 1912-1923 period here are my recommendations, all on youtube, and are from the last 20 years mostly, Strumpet City 1980:

1. The Burning of Cork documentary. It's December 1920. Plenty of background to the war of Independece especially in Cork. Tomás McCurtain Lord Mayor of Cork shot in his home. His successor as mayor Terence McSwiney's 74 day hunger strike. Kilmichael ambush etc covered.

2. The Killings at Coolacrease. An atrocity during the Civil War. Though the Offaly IRA argue that those killed were crown spies. Both sides presented.

3. Strumpet City. All 7 episodes based on James Plunkett's novel based on the Lockout 1913 available on youtube. From 1980. Repeated in 2013, the 90th anniversary of the Lockout. In my opinion THE BEST historical drama produced by rte. The first episode is slow enough but it picks up there after. Brilliant portrayal of Dublin society in the early 20th century. And something i'm not getting from Rebellion is the renowned Dublin wit! Something i'm very familiar with from spending 10 years in the capital and attending gaa matches versus the Dubs. Rashers Tierney (David Kelly) and the 'Toucher' Hennessy (Brendan Cauldwell) are the main purveyors of this wit. Quite hilarious at times. The actors are top notch, Cyril Cusack, Peter O'Toole, David Kelly, Brendan Cauldwell, Tom Jordan, Brian Murray, Eileen Colgan and a guest appearance by Peter Ustinov as King Edward VII.

4. Ballyseedy documentary in 1998, 75 year anniversary (1923) of atrocities during the Civil War in Kerry at Knocknagoshel and Ballyseedy. Ballyseedy is particularly horrendous for anyone not acquainted with the happenings there.

5, The Treaty 1991 film made by RTE and the BBC. Excellent. Turn away Mick's Mauser :-D Starring Brendan Gleeson. Ian Bannen as an excellent Lloyd George too. For anyone who quotes what happened in the Michael Collins film please that film is so historically inaccurate. In complete contrast this film above is just so accurate. The dialogue between the Irish and British delegation is all documented. Also the Dail meetings dialogue and British Parliament speeches in Hansard's Parliamentary records. Great humour from Collins. Dev portrayed realistically not the pantomime villain played by the late Alan Rickman in the 1996 Michael Collins film.

6. Rebel County. A full RTE documentary on the background and making of the 2006 Irish War of Independence and Civil War film 'The Wind that Shakes the Barley'. Based in Cork. A family who fight for independence divide during the Civil War. The film won the Palme d'Or at the 2006 Cannes Film Festival.

Some very good RTE work there, dramas and documentaries. Forgive me if i've poor grammar and typo errors. Late night/long day

Civil Joe

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So.... predictions for the last episode?

Everyone lives? Everyone dies? Everyone gets deported to Australia?

It will be another steaming pile o' sh1te

Galwayguy35

Was expecting this to be a lot better to be honest, most of the episodes were just plain boring and there seemed to be more time spent on the English fellas sex life rather than the 1916 Rising itself.

jmcc

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Either you are a huge Downton Abbey fan or else you have never watched it.

There is a third option: You just don't understand sarcasm.

Regards...jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

Two words: Licence Fee.
Two more words: Ruined LyricFM.

Regards...jmcc

Well yes. LyricFM. A perfect example of the downgrading of Irish society the rebellion sparked off. Yes, the dumbing own of Lyric is a national embarrassment (fortunately we are too insignificant for anyone to notice how bad it is). Rebellion shows us as part of the Union, and having a cross section of classes and cultures. Being part of the Union upgraded our average cultural sophistication. Hiving ourselves off downgraded us dramatically, resulting, even a hundred years later with a media that is a mirror of this low level rump of a formerly greater whole.
It would be interesting to see this series continue, not necessarily with the same characters, although that could be interesting too, following the changes in all class levels through independence, the dark days of the 20s and 30s, and the abstinence from responsibility during the war - all phases that were still strongly influenced by the hangover from the rebellion.

I guess what you are really saying is you would much prefer your licence fee to be funding Radio 3 - but that we dont, is part of the price we pay today for the folly of those weeks in 1916.

ectoraige

jmcc wrote: »

There is a third option: You just don't understand sarcasm.

Regards...jmcc

There's a fourth option: He just doesn't think it's funny, witty, or very intelligent, and finds it irritating that you keep using your "subtle" nomenclature when it really adds no more to the discussion. If somebody eventually praises you for your abundant wit next time you call it "Down Town Abbey", and recognises your brilliance and subtlety, will you stop it then?

I don't find the drama to be as powerful as it could have been, and I think the major reason is they wanted to have the characters appearing in many places associated with the rising, and ended up not leaving enough time to establish back-stories. I am impressed by the accuracy of their depiction of the rising itself, I actually expected the common myths to be regurgitated, so we have to give them credit for that. I think what the writers set out to do could only have been realised with a greater budget, it's a shame they didn't get it, or adjust their writing to suit the budget they did have.

amdublin

Mod:


Ok less arguing amongst posters and more (just) discussuion about the tv show

Steppenwolfe

nagdefy wrote: »

On the subject of RTE dramas and documentaries for the 1912-1923 period here are my recommendations, all on youtube, and are from the last 20 years mostly, Strumpet City 1980:

1. The Burning of Cork documentary. It's December 1920. Plenty of background to the war of Independece especially in Cork. Tomás McCurtain Lord Mayor of Cork shot in his home. His successor as mayor Terence McSwiney's 74 day hunger strike. Kilmichael ambush etc covered.

2. The Killings at Coolacrease. An atrocity during the Civil War. Though the Offaly IRA argue that those killed were crown spies. Both sides presented.

3. Strumpet City. All 7 episodes based on James Plunkett's novel based on the Lockout 1913 available on youtube. From 1980. Repeated in 2013, the 90th anniversary of the Lockout. In my opinion THE BEST historical drama produced by rte. The first episode is slow enough but it picks up there after. Brilliant portrayal of Dublin society in the early 20th century. And something i'm not getting from Rebellion is the renowned Dublin wit! Something i'm very familiar with from spending 10 years in the capital and attending gaa matches versus the Dubs. Rashers Tierney (David Kelly) and the 'Toucher' Hennessy (Brendan Cauldwell) are the main purveyors of this wit. Quite hilarious at times. The actors are top notch, Cyril Cusack, Peter O'Toole, David Kelly, Brendan Cauldwell, Tom Jordan, Brian Murray, Eileen Colgan and a guest appearance by Peter Ustinov as King Edward VII.

4. Ballyseedy documentary in 1998, 75 year anniversary (1923) of atrocities during the Civil War in Kerry at Knocknagoshel and Ballyseedy. Ballyseedy is particularly horrendous for anyone not acquainted with the happenings there.

5, The Treaty 1991 film made by RTE and the BBC. Excellent. Turn away Mick's Mauser :-D Starring Brendan Gleeson. Ian Bannen as an excellent Lloyd George too. For anyone who quotes what happened in the Michael Collins film please that film is so historically inaccurate. In complete contrast this film above is just so accurate. The dialogue between the Irish and British delegation is all documented. Also the Dail meetings dialogue and British Parliament speeches in Hansard's Parliamentary records. Great humour from Collins. Dev portrayed realistically not the pantomime villain played by the late Alan Rickman in the 1996 Michael Collins film.

6. Rebel County. A full RTE documentary on the background and making of the 2006 Irish War of Independence and Civil War film 'The Wind that Shakes the Barley'. Based in Cork. A family who fight for independence divide during the Civil War. The film won the Palme d'Or at the 2006 Cannes Film Festival.

Some very good RTE work there, dramas and documentaries. Forgive me if i've poor grammar and typo errors. Late night/long day

I've seen all those and that's one of the reasons I thought this production would be much better. Admittedly only two of them were dramas. Stumpet City was made 35 years ago and is head and heels above Rebellion in every way.

Strazdas

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

I've seen all those and that's one of the reasons I thought this production would be much better. Admittedly only two of them were dramas. Stumpet City was made 35 years ago and is head and heels above Rebellion in every way.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. If Strumpet City was on air in 2016, the same critics who have been tearing into Rebellion would probably be doing the same with it too. If anything, it was even more soapy and melodramatic than Rebellion (nearly all the emphasis was on dialogue and the relationships between the characters), the very thing that seems to be bugging Rebellion's critics now.

P. Breathnach

Strazdas wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree. If Strumpet City was on air in 2016, the same critics who have been tearing into Rebellion would probably be doing the same with it too. If anything, it was even more soapy and melodramatic than Rebellion (nearly all the emphasis was on dialogue and the relationships between the characters), the very thing that seems to be bugging Rebellion's critics now.

Only some of those critical of Rebellion are suggesting that a different type of programme should have been made - they seem to want a largely non-critical re-enactment. Many of us accept the premise of the programme, but are disappointed with its execution.

Strumpet City was far better made, and drew very little negative comment when it first aired. Granted, we didn't have the internet.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Strumpet City was far better made, and drew very little negative comment when it first aired. Granted, we didn't have the internet.

Yes, the local post office of a Monday morning could have been ablaze with criticism back in '66.

Strazdas

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Only some of those critical of Rebellion are suggesting that a different type of programme should have been made - they seem to want a largely non-critical re-enactment. Many of us accept the premise of the programme, but are disappointed with its execution.

Strumpet City was far better made, and drew very little negative comment when it first aired. Granted, we didn't have the internet.

I would say Strumpet City was far closer to the Downton Abbey model. Very strong on characterisation and the wordplay between the characters. Actual scenes of the 1913 Lockout were pretty much in the background for most of the series. I'd agree that it was superbly produced and well acted.

I'm not entirely sure what people wanted from Rebellion. Pat Stacey in the Herald has been banging on about there not being enough character development but in that case, we would have seen something closer to Strumpet City ie. people sitting around giving their thoughts on the Rising and fewer scenes of the actual fighting. Others have gone completely in the opposite direction and said there are too many soapy scenes and not enough "action", even claiming that the pace is too slow and nothing happens in each episode.

P. Breathnach

Strazdas wrote: »

I would say Strumpet City was far closer to the Downton Abbey model....

I really wish nobody would mention Downton Abbey in this thread!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It would be interesting to see this series continue, not necessarily with the same characters, although that could be interesting too, following the changes in all class levels through independence, the dark days of the 20s and 30s, and the abstinence from responsibility during the war - all phases that were still strongly influenced by the hangover from the rebellion.

I think it could be interesting to see Elizabeth's family continued with. Especially if they've got a nice big country estate some local heroes could burn them out of. See how Elizabeth feels about it all then.

I think there's probably loads of scope for another series if they narrow down the focus a bit. Calling it Rebellion kind of ties their hands a bit though. The original title was Generation, which would have allowed for a bit more scope over the years. A very interesting decade or so to be "coming of age" in Ireland.