2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

josephryan1989

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would doubt that many of the kings followers were slumming it in tenements somehow. Although looking at the incompetent gobs*ites that rule us in the modern day we are probably not much better off by comparison.

When Queen Victoria and Kings Edward and George came to Dublin in the years before the Rising people from the tenements cheered them and waved union jacks which is why Dubliners are still called jackeens by country people today. Dublin was very much a British city before 1916-1923. The pubs and bars and the Monto were full of British soldiers from the barracks that ringed the city and the Irish Regiments were full of men from the slums.

PeterTheEighth

There's a load of "Extras", supposedly behind the scenes stuff, already up on the RTE Player.

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/rebellion-extras-30003798/

TerrorFirmer

Was OK, but the scene where the detective and his constables had guns pulled on them was just ridiculous - he just wanders off and that's the end of it? They would have been back, with the army, and the whole lot of them would have been arrested and the place ransacked.

josephryan1989

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Was OK, but the scene where the detective and his constables had guns pulled on them was just ridiculous - he just wanders off and that's the end of it? They would have been back, with the army, and the whole lot of them would have been arrested and the place ransacked.

That scene is based roughly on fact. The Citizen Army and the Irish Volunteers openly drilled with full kit and rifles while being shadowed by the G men of the DMP. When the Viceroy asked his officials and the army and police why they weren't rounding up revolutionaries or raiding Liberty Hall he was told it lead to open warfare. In the weeks before the Rising the rebels would march through the city centre and at one stage cordoned off Dame Street. The DMP stood back and did nothing but wrote their intelligence reports.

The detective depicted is Hoey a man who actually existed. He was later assassinated by the Squad on the orders of Michael Collins.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

weadick wrote: »

I thought the story involving the Sarah Greene character and the English guy was very predictable and clichéd and very similar to a plot line from the excellent Generation War which was out a year or so ago.

I assume you mean where the singer was sleeping with the Nazi guy to further her own career/protect Viktor? Not really all that similar.

JohnFalstaff

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I've read their letters, diaries, writings and several biographies and historical books about the rebellion and transcripts of interviews with participants who knew them intimately.

I don't doubt you have read extensively on the history of the Rising, but you seem to have garnered only a superficial impression of the people involved. To glibly state that Thomas Clarke was 'driven mad' shows very little appreciation or understanding of his character. These men and women were products of their time and place.

We are unwise to judge the past through the prism of the present; foolish if we judge historical characters according to modern standards.

gandalf

weadick wrote: »

I thought the story involving the Sarah Greene character and the English guy was very predictable and clichéd and very similar to a plot line from the excellent Generation War which was out a year or so ago.

It's funny when I realised they were using the story delivery mechanism of the three friends I immediately thought that they were copying Generation War. Not bad so far, it held my interest and the wife (who isn't Irish) is interested cause it looks a bit like Downtown Abbey so far

I missed the yellow lines, I was looking out for any signposts etc out of place. I did notice that there were some modern looking railings in one shot and definite double glazed windows on the Liberty Hall building. Apart from that it was a good first episode setting up the Rising. The real test is how the fighting looks on screen though!!

Day Lewin

Thouyght it was excellent but my teeth put on edge by some modern turns of speech.
"i'm good" - they never would have said that in answer toy "how are you?"

"I'm good" meant - I am a good person
"I'm well" meant - (as you might imagine) I am well.

And the scene where the two girls argue "I'd rather be F V cked by an Englishman than brainwashed by an Irish" or words to that effect -

Well - I really do not think the girls would have used such blunt language of their sexual lives. And I believe the word "brain-washing" may not even have been invented yet.

I understand the challenge of period drama - they have to make it accessible and engaging for modern viewers - but anachronisms are a shot of cold water to the illusion.

josephryan1989

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

I don't doubt you have read extensively on the history of the Rising, but you seem to have garnered only a superficial impression of the people involved. To glibly state that Thomas Clarke was 'driven mad' shows very little appreciation or understanding of his character. These men and women were products of their time and place.

We are unwise to judge the past through the prism of the present; foolish if we judge historical characters according to modern standards.

Clarke was arrested as a young Fenian in the late 19th century at the time when the Land War was on the go. Fenians were launching dynamite attacks in Britain and there were shootings and assassinations of police and land agents and landlords. He spent years in solitary and came out prematurely aged and psychologically damaged.
When MacNeill issued the countermanding order before the Rising Clarke broke down and cried and he urged the Rising to go ahead regardless on Easter Sunday when even Pearse was thinking of giving up. They decided instead to delay for 24 hours and go out on Easter Monday instead.
When Pearse finished reading the Proclamation at the GPO Clarke shook his hand and said he could now die happy.
When the roof of the GPO began to burn and the HQ was evacuating to Moore Street, Clarke had to be persuaded to leave because he wanted to perish in the flames.
When he was led out to be executed he refused to wear a blindfold before the firing squad.

Clarke was a hero but that said he was psychologically damaged.

Strazdas

katemarch wrote: »

Thouyght it was excellent but my teeth put on edge by some modern turns of speech.
"i'm good" - they never would have said that in answer toy "how are you?"

"I'm good" meant - I am a good person
"I'm well" meant - (as you might imagine) I am well.

And the scene where the two girls argue "I'd rather be F V cked by an Englishman than brainwashed by an Irish" or words to that effect -

Well - I really do not think the girls would have used such blunt language of their sexual lives. And I believe the word "brain-washing" may not even have been invented yet.

I understand the challenge of period drama - they have to make it accessible and engaging for modern viewers - but anachronisms are a shot of cold water to the illusion.

I thought the scenes where two girls were being chatted up at the bar by that smarmy git seemed odd too. To the best of my knowledge, women wouldn't be allowed into a bar in 1916, certainly not to socialise freely at the counter with men as if it were 2016.

Utopia Parkway

katemarch wrote: »

Thouyght it was excellent but my teeth put on edge by some modern turns of speech.
"i'm good" - they never would have said that in answer toy "how are you?"

"I'm good" meant - I am a good person
"I'm well" meant - (as you might imagine) I am well.

And the scene where the two girls argue "I'd rather be F V cked by an Englishman than brainwashed by an Irish" or words to that effect -

Well - I really do not think the girls would have used such blunt language of their sexual lives. And I believe the word "brain-washing" may not even have been invented yet.

I understand the challenge of period drama - they have to make it accessible and engaging for modern viewers - but anachronisms are a shot of cold water to the illusion.

The term "brainwashed" was only coined around the time of the Korean war I believe.

spurious

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

The term "brainwashed" was only coined around the time of the Korean war I believe.

There were other terms they could have used - 'mesmerised' would have done the job and not sounded so clunky.

Stojkovic

Strazdas wrote: »

I thought the scenes where two girls were being chatted up at the bar by that smarmy git seemed odd too. To the best of my knowledge, women wouldn't be allowed into a bar in 1916, certainly not to socialise freely at the counter with men as if it were 2016.

Hookers would have been.

It was unclear if they were hookers or apprentice hookers or just ordinary Marys.

splashthecash

Jasus everyone, just chill and enjoy it....serious analysis going on here "they wouldn't have said that", "she would've said this", "that word didn't exist" :rolleyes:

CramCycle

splashthecash wrote: »

Jasus everyone, just chill and enjoy it....serious analysis going on here "they wouldn't have said that", "she would've said this", "that word didn't exist" :rolleyes:

It does ruin the illusion a tad though, I am all for allowances to make something more accessible but there should be a line.

That said, the one word that jarred with me turns out to be a word that was used at the time so I am not one to throw stones. (It was G men (for the G division) but my mind jumped to "government agent" ie FBI, although I now wonder did this nickname have an origin in Ireland and immigrants bringing it with them).

The women at the bar were odd, I do think they were brazers in training judging by one of their comments but still odd to see them at a bar considering the time was it not? Didn't ruin it for me though.

I thought the story was jumpy and unfocused, could be a side effect of trying to introduce so many so quickly, hopefully its just a first episode issue and does not continue.

An Riabhach

Stojkovic wrote: »

Hookers would have been.

It was unclear if they were hookers or apprentice hookers or just ordinary Marys.

Doubt if they were hookers...
I remember one of them saying to the fella somethin like "how much would it be worth?" and then the other one said to her "no,you're not like that".

Sunny Dayz

While I thought it was good last night, I did find it hard to follow. I kept annoying himself asking which one is he/she again etc. I found it difficult to remember the male characters in particular, who they were and what side they were on. I must confess I know very little about the Easter Rising, I hated history in school.
Also I've never watched Love/Hate or Game of Thrones so I don't recognise anyone from previous roles. I am looking forward to the next episode, it might start to make a bit more sense to me then.

Stojkovic

CramCycle wrote: »

That said, the one word that jarred with me turns out to be a word that was used at the time so I am not one to throw stones. (It was G men (for the G division) but my mind jumped to "government agent" ie FBI, although I now wonder did this nickname have an origin in Ireland and immigrants bringing it with them).

AFAIK both your descriptions are correct 'Government Men' in America (also G-I for soldiers) and G Division in Ireland. Dont think they are related in anyway just coincidence.

Strazdas

Stojkovic wrote: »

Hookers would have been.

It was unclear if they were hookers or apprentice hookers or just ordinary Marys.

Not sure but I'm guessing it would have been extremely unusual for two young women to stand at a bar counter in 1916 and be chatted up by men. Men and women would have met at dances : bars were strictly places for men to hang out with each other.

Stojkovic

Strazdas wrote: »

Not sure but I'm guessing it would have been extremely unusual for two young women to stand at a bar counter in 1916 and be chatted up by men. Men and women would have met at dances : bars were strictly places for men to hang out with each other.

Of course it was verbotten.
Sure the pretty little things couldnt even vote.

Then again neither could poor Irish men !!!

dirkmeister

Someone mentioned brainwashing earlier, I checked it up and it seems the term brainwashing was first used during the Korean War to explain why soldiers changed sides.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stojkovic wrote: »

Hookers would have been.

It was unclear if they were hookers or apprentice hookers or just ordinary Marys.

One of them (the one that cuddled up to him) was your man that came back from the war's daughter. Minnie. Jimmy got her a job in the laundry and he passed her on the stairs just before the brother kicked him out.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

One of them (the one that cuddled up to him) was your man that came back from the war's daughter. Minnie. Jimmy got her a job in the laundry and he passed her on the stairs just before the brother kicked him out.

Looks like we'll be seeing more of her in the show then.

josephryan1989

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

While I thought it was good last night, I did find it hard to follow. I kept annoying himself asking which one is he/she again etc. I found it difficult to remember the male characters in particular, who they were and what side they were on. I must confess I know very little about the Easter Rising, I hated history in school.
Also I've never watched Love/Hate or Game of Thrones so I don't recognise anyone from previous roles. I am looking forward to the next episode, it might start to make a bit more sense to me then.

How do you mean you found it hard to follow? It couldn't be clearer.
Jimmy is in the Citizens Army opposed to the World War and supports Connolly and the Easter Rising.
His older brother is a soldier in the British Army and feels betrayed when he finds out what his brother is up to.
Eliza's rich family support Home Rule and support the war but she is a socialist and also supports Connolly.
Her brother is a playboy who doesn't care about the war or Home Rule or socialism and is more interested in having fun, drinking and girls.
Her rich fiance is a Home Rule supporter and is fighting in the war on the British side because he expects there to be an Irish parliament after the war and he hasn't a clue what his girl has been up to while he's been gone.
The British civil servant is working to stop a rebellion while his secretary who is sleeping with him and is carrying his child is spying on him for the rebels.
The schoolteacher is opposed to war, wants a Republic and is working for Patrick Pearse plus she also seems to fancy him.

Galwayguy35

I thought it was fairly good last night, didn't notice any Game of Thrones actors though in it.

Did Dubs really go around singing god save the queen in their houses ?

eamonpm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

...didn't notice any Game of Thrones actors though in it...

Michelle Fairley (Catelyn Stark) plays Eliza's mother.

josephryan1989

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I thought it was fairly good last night, didn't notice any Game of Thrones actors though in it.

Did Dubs really go around singing god save the queen in their houses ?

Yes they did.
For decades after independence it was common to hear God Save the Queen sung in wealthy areas of South Dublin by West Brits especially in Dun Loaghaire which older resident who lived under British rule still called Kingstown until recently.
At the RDS for many years the horsey set used to sing it too.
Down the country the families of landlords who hadn't packed up and left yet sang it in their mansions but the IRA burned down their houses because they supported the Tans and kicked them out.
There are still a lot of these types around in Dublin and parts of Meath and Kildare and Wicklow who talk in posh Englishy accents.
They mostly vote for Fine Gael now but in the past they voted Unionist or supported the Irish Parliamentary Party.
Dun Laoighaire is the most liberal region in Ireland because a lot of the West Brits became commies in the 1960s and 1970s and supported the Stickies and today they vote for People Before Profit or else the Labour Party.
All the posh rugby colleges and private schools are full of these people and they usually go to British universities for their Third Level education before becoming doctors and business people when they come back.
They usually hate Ireland and try to do down Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein and attack the GAA, Catholicism and Irish Republicanism.
It's no accident that hero is a Citizen Army working class hero who has to be saved by a rich guilty Southside girl.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I thought it was fairly good last night, didn't notice any Game of Thrones actors though in it.

Did Dubs really go around singing god save the queen in their houses ?

They weren't actually in their house then, they were upstairs in the theatre. But see above for actual answer.

Galwayguy35

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Yes they did.
For decades after independence it was common to hear God Save the Queen sung in wealthy areas of South Dublin by West Brits especially in Dun Loaghaire which older resident who lived under British rule still called Kingstown until recently.
At the RDS for many years the horsey set used to sing it too.
Down the country the families of landlords who hadn't packed up and left yet sang it in their mansions but the IRA burned down their houses because they supported the Tans and kicked them out.
There are still a lot of these types around in Dublin and parts of Meath and Kildare and Wicklow who talk in posh Englishy accents.
They mostly vote for Fine Gael now but in the past they voted Unionist or supported the Irish Parliamentary Party.
Dun Laoighaire is the most liberal region in Ireland because a lot of the West Brits became commies in the 1960sand 1970s and supported the Stickies and today they vote for People Before Profit or else the Labour Party.
All the posh rugby colleges and private schools are full of these people and they usually go to British universities for their Third Level education before becoming doctors and business people when they come back.
They usually hate Ireland and try to do down Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein and attack the GAA, Catholicism and Irish Republicanism.

Learn something new everyday, never knew any of that.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Learn something new everyday, never knew any of that.

Not having a go at you here but I find that a lot of people actually have very little knowledge of the history of Ireland around that time. Many people assume that the whole country was pro independence and think the Rising was a huge success and are oblivious to the Ulster Covenant and other such things.

Thinking back to the brief bit of this I was thought in primary school it was all very one sided and not much more than propaganda, to be honest. I'd assume a lot of people got the same education. I only did history to Junior Cert level and my teacher decided to start at the front of the massive text book and work our way through. We never got to modern Ireland, I think the Louisiana Purchase was the most modern history we covered

If you go back a generation more you'd have kids being thought by people who were still very much Dev or Collins and they were probably getting very specific versions of events too.

There was a great series on TG4 not that long ago that covered a lot of the Rising, the first series focused on the the "forgotten" leaders that were executed, i.e the less famous names. It's worth tracking down if you can.