2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

Strazdas

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I thought it was really quite enjoyable.

It was and around half a million viewers a week agreed with you (probably a lot more if we add in catch up views).

I've been scratching my head for the last few weeks at all the negativity, as if this was the worst drama series ever made or something.

jmcc

There does seem to be a split in opinions with the pro-RTE posters (some of whom seem to be extremely pro-RTE) talking up the series despite it being poorly received by the public and the posters who think that it was poorly written and those who found fault with the history as depicted in the series. Don't even think that the History Channel would take it as a prime-time series. (It screened run Vikings and Black Sails and a few US Revolutionary War series.) It is funny to see people waffling on about viewing figures without actually understanding the business. The value of a programme to a TV channel is in the amount of advertising it can sell through it. Now this might be upsetting to the people who read the review sections and believe them and who think that all TV series are created equally but if a TV series can't bring in the advertising, then it is unlikely to be picked up. It is a numbers business.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

The Black Oil wrote: »

I hate this mentality that fan feedback should inform the creative direction of any show or series. All that does is lead to one ugly thing - fan entitlement and there is quite enough of that going on with some US shows. Leaving aside that this particular series was bound up in history, if I worked in television I couldn't give two fups about the reaction of the internetz. All social media does in is lead to people piling on, sometimes for the sake of it. Don't even get me started on live commenting on an episode.

Well stick to whatever you are doing. The whole point about series, from a broadcaster point of view is building the numbers. If that kind of Social Media involvement results in buy-in from people and repeat viewing, then it is a good thing because it makes the series more valuable for a broadcaster and enables them to sell more advertising.

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

There does seem to be a split in opinions with the pro-RTE posters (some of whom seem to be extremely pro-RTE) talking up the series despite it being poorly received by the public and the posters who think that it was poorly written and those who found fault with the history as depicted in the series. Don't even think that the History Channel would take it as a prime-time series. (It screened run Vikings and Black Sails and a few US Revolutionary War series.) It is funny to see people waffling on about viewing figures without actually understanding the business. The value of a programme to a TV channel is in the amount of advertising it can sell through it. Now this might be upsetting to the people who read the review sections and believe them and who think that all TV series are created equally but if a TV series can't bring in the advertising, then it is unlikely to be picked up. It is a numbers business.

Regards...jmcc

Advertising sales are linked directly to viewing figures. The more viewers there are the higher the advertising slots cost. By RTÉ standards Rebellion had fairly high viewing figures therefore the ads run during it would bring in more money than during Fair City, for example.

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

There does seem to be a split in opinions with the pro-RTE posters (some of whom seem to be extremely pro-RTE) talking up the series despite it being poorly received by the public and the posters who think that it was poorly written and those who found fault with the history as depicted in the series. Don't even think that the History Channel would take it as a prime-time series. (It screened run Vikings and Black Sails and a few US Revolutionary War series.) It is funny to see people waffling on about viewing figures without actually understanding the business. The value of a programme to a TV channel is in the amount of advertising it can sell through it. Now this might be upsetting to the people who read the review sections and believe them and who think that all TV series are created equally but if a TV series can't bring in the advertising, then it is unlikely to be picked up. It is a numbers business.

Regards...jmcc

Still taking issue with the history I see? And the fact it was made by rte which I think is your main gripe.

If it was made by tv3 you'd probably be hailing it as brilliant and wondering why rte wouldn't make something like it. Which begs the further question what are tv3 doing for the rising? We're still waiting for news of their big drama about it. Or maybe they just aren't ambitious enough.

As regards the history films such as Lincoln and Braveheart have far more inaccuracies. Films like The Damned United and The Imitation Game also have bigger historical inaccuracies. They couldn't even get the year of Turing's death right! Still got countless Oscar nominations!

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

There does seem to be a split in opinions with the pro-RTE posters (some of whom seem to be extremely pro-RTE)

I dont think there are any pro-RTE let alone extremely pro-RTE posters here. I a certainly have no link to RTE, am no RTE fanboy, nor care particularly about how it is run, or what my licence fee funds (its an annual pittance anyway).
What do seem to be here though are posters who are prejudiced against RTE, and therefore are unable to give an objective view on their output.
So no split in opinions: just unbiased ones, and ones with an axe to grind.

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

There does seem to be a split in opinions with the pro-RTE posters (some of whom seem to be extremely pro-RTE) talking up the series despite it being poorly received by the public and the posters who think that it was poorly written and those who found fault with the history as depicted in the series. Don't even think that the History Channel would take it as a prime-time series. (It screened run Vikings and Black Sails and a few US Revolutionary War series.) It is funny to see people waffling on about viewing figures without actually understanding the business. The value of a programme to a TV channel is in the amount of advertising it can sell through it. Now this might be upsetting to the people who read the review sections and believe them and who think that all TV series are created equally but if a TV series can't bring in the advertising, then it is unlikely to be picked up. It is a numbers business.

Regards...jmcc

Are there any "pro-RTE" people posting here? I haven't been a big fan of much of their drama output myself. I didn't like Charlie or Amber and I thought Love Hate ended up being ridiculously over hyped and over praised by the media : anyone would think it was the greatest TV drama ever shown in Europe the way they were going on.

(I did like Single Handed though).

Shurimgreat

I too am no big fan of rte. Their drama is usually mixed. Never got into Love/Hate, thought Charlie was ok and its writer had talent, although I thought Aiden Gillen really made that program.

I thought Rebellion was ambitious, and was carried off well for the most part. If it was on any other channel I would think the same.

kabakuyu

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You make it sound like someone tied you to a chair and forced you to watch it.

Not at all,I watched it with an open mind, it just did not grab me.I found it quite poor,some acting average,script was jaded IMO,RTE should have done better.

kabakuyu

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This is a good point. Why did some people watch it to the very last minute of the last episode before deciding they didn't like it. Its really bizarre.

I held my opinion till I saw the whole package, nothing bizarre in that:rolleyes:
Because one was not constantly gushing about "Rebellion" every week does not make one's opinion invalid.
I found the whole series average/poor, but one highlight was Steve Wall(has the menacing look down pat)

jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Advertising sales are linked directly to viewing figures.

See the part about being picked up in the section you highlighted? That applies to other broadcasters buying the programme/series. The series in question is a niche one and is effectively a costume drama. The figures in Ireland are naturally going to be high because of the subject matter. What other broadcasters have to take into consideration is whether the series will do well with an audience who may be unaware of the subject. Just because a series gets a partiucular viewing figure in Ireland, it does not follow that it would get the same in another market. There is also an element of the cost of promoting the series to in the new market that the broadcaster would have to consider before deciding to buy the rights.

Regards...jmcc

kabakuyu

Strazdas wrote: »

It was and around half a million viewers a week agreed with you (probably a lot more if we add in catch up views).

I've been scratching my head for the last few weeks at all the negativity, as if this was the worst drama series ever made or something.

But did the half million endorse the series, they just watched it.I watched it and found it poor,no doubt countless others found the same.Viewing figures do not translate into approvals.

jmcc

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Still taking issue with the history I see? And the fact it was made by rte which I think is your main gripe.

For someone who claims to be able to properly "critique" a series (though I am not sure what that means unless you are some kind of Leaving Cert student or teacher), you do seem to miss some basic facts. I think it is poorly written and has the emotional depth of a flat bag of crisps. RTE was never going to be bold when it comes to a drama that has to do with Irish independence. That's politics.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think there are any pro-RTE let alone extremely pro-RTE posters here.

You were doing a good impersonation of someone chanelling Marty Whelan earlier in the thread.

I a certainly have no link to RTE, am no RTE fanboy, nor care particularly about how it is run, or what my licence fee funds (its an annual pittance anyway).

Good for you. But for many, the compulsory licence fee is a waste of money.

What do seem to be here though are posters who are prejudiced against RTE, and therefore are unable to give an objective view on their output.
So no split in opinions: just unbiased ones, and ones with an axe to grind.

Of course. All the pro-RTE posters who like the series have no axe to grind and those who think that the series was not good have axes to grind. Therefore anyone who says anything against the series can be dismissed.

Regards...jmcc

maudgonner

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Advertising sales are linked directly to viewing figures. The more viewers there are the higher the advertising slots cost. By RTÉ standards Rebellion had fairly high viewing figures therefore the ads run during it would bring in more money than during Fair City, for example.

I know that's been said a lot in this thread, but I saw Elmo's (the other Elmo ) figures over in the ratings thread today and I'm not sure they back it up? (I have no experience reading ratings though, so I'm just going by the numbers given there).

Eps 1 and 2 did very well, topped the ratings, so well done to RTE for that. But the dip that came following that saw it slip behind Fair City consistently and Ep 4 was even beaten by an episode of Nationwide. I don't know if those numbers include timeshift/Player (I guess not since they're all lower than what the RTE press releases said) - Rebellion would probably have done better than other shows on the Player.

I'm really disappointed by that to be honest. Even with all its faults Rebellion is a damn sight better than Fair City. I hope RTE don't use this as an excuse to scale back on drama, just a message that they need to produce better quality drama

The Rape of Lucretia

kabakuyu wrote: »

But did the half million endorse the series, they just watched it.I watched it and found it poor,no doubt countless others found the same.Viewing figures do not translate into approvals.

As far as advertisers are concerned the half million did endorse the series by watching the ads around it. Rebellion had half a million commercial television approvals. An excellent return.

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

Are there any "pro-RTE" people posting here?

You've been relentlessly positive about the series and have even taken to dismissing those on Social Media who have criticised it. You've been laying into the TV critics in the media who have gone negative on the series after fluffing it prior to broadcast. You are even using the viewing figures to claim that they are so good that they would equate to a particular viewing figure in the UK market. Perhaps you just really, really like it.

Regards...jmcc

kabakuyu

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think there are any pro-RTE let alone extremely pro-RTE posters here. I a certainly have no link to RTE, am no RTE fanboy, nor care particularly about how it is run, or what my licence fee funds (its an annual pittance anyway).
What do seem to be here though are posters who are prejudiced against RTE, and therefore are unable to give an objective view on their output.
So no split in opinions: just unbiased ones, and ones with an axe to grind.

No prejudice here, I call it as I see it.It was quite poor and a lot of people may agree.
To suggest that someone is anti RTE because they did not like "Rebellion" is quite preposterous. Maybe you have the axe;)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

See the part about being picked up in the section you highlighted? That applies to other broadcasters buying the programme/series. The series in question is a niche one and is effectively a costume drama. The figures in Ireland are naturally going to be high because of the subject matter. What other broadcasters have to take into consideration is whether the series will do well with an audience who may be unaware of the subject. Just because a series gets a partiucular viewing figure in Ireland, it does not follow that it would get the same in another market. There is also an element of the cost of promoting the series to in the new market that the broadcaster would have to consider before deciding to buy the rights.

Well you have to look at what kind of networks would be picking something like this up and what their normal viewing figures would be. Even half of RTÉ's numbers for it would be considered a success for a network like Sundance, where it will air later this year.
If you're looking at selling it to the UK it's unlikely any of the main channels would show it, so you're probably looking at BBC 4 or ITV 3 or the likes and again, something around the same as RTÉ had would be considered a success .

As for promoting the series it's unlikely anyone would be launching it as a flagship show so bar a few TV spots, which aren't going to cost much, if anything, promotion isn't going to be a big problem.

kabakuyu

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As far as advertisers are concerned the half million did endorse the series by watching the ads around it. Rebellion had half a million commercial television approvals. An excellent return.

Seriously, you are linking advertising revenue to actual endorsement of the series by the viewers:eek:

Strazdas

kabakuyu wrote: »

But did the half million endorse the series, they just watched it.I watched it and found it poor,no doubt countless others found the same.Viewing figures do not translate into approvals.

They do seem to as far as the UK channels go. The likes of the BBC and ITV will renew a series if the ratings are respectable or healthy and will ditch anything that is struggling. If Rebellion had been on BBC1, it would be certain to get another series as it would be deemed a "success".

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

See the part about being picked up in the section you highlighted? That applies to other broadcasters buying the programme/series. The series in question is a niche one and is effectively a costume drama. The figures in Ireland are naturally going to be high because of the subject matter. What other broadcasters have to take into consideration is whether the series will do well with an audience who may be unaware of the subject. Just because a series gets a partiucular viewing figure in Ireland, it does not follow that it would get the same in another market. There is also an element of the cost of promoting the series to in the new market that the broadcaster would have to consider before deciding to buy the rights.

Regards...jmcc

There are lots of channels and online etc that don't depend on advertising and are subscription only. Amazon prime, netflix and sundance (I think) are examples. Alao Sky movies on demand. Its already signed up to Sundance and they might have a say on whether there is a new series.

kabakuyu

Strazdas wrote: »

They do seem to as far as the UK channels go. The likes of the BBC and ITV will renew a series if the ratings are respectable or healthy and will ditch anything that is struggling. If Rebellion had been on BBC1, it would be certain to get another series as it would be deemed a "success".

And some of the worst progammes ever produced got a second series on this premise, but it does not equate to good television.

Remember this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_It_to_Mrs_O%27Brien

jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well you have to look at what kind of networks would be picking something like this up and what their normal viewing figures would be.

The UK market would be a logical one followed by the US market. There's also the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand markets.

As for promoting the series it's unlikely anyone would be launching it as a flagship show so bar a few TV spots, which aren't going to cost much, if anything, promotion isn't going to be a big problem.

Promotion for short series tends to be trickier than that for long run series. At best, Rebellion is a movie of the week kind product. It definitely isn't a primetime series.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Shurimgreat wrote: »

There are lots of channels and online etc that don't depend on advertising and are subscription only.

Really?

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

maudgonner wrote: »

I know that's been said a lot in this thread, but I saw Elmo's (the other Elmo ) figures over in the ratings thread today and I'm not sure they back it up? (I have no experience reading ratings though, so I'm just going by the numbers given there).

Eps 1 and 2 did very well, topped the ratings, so well done to RTE for that. But the dip that came following that saw it slip behind Fair City consistently and Ep 4 was even beaten by an episode of Nationwide. I don't know if those numbers include timeshift/Player (I guess not since they're all lower than what the RTE press releases said) - Rebellion would probably have done better than other shows on the Player.

I'm really disappointed by that to be honest. Even with all its faults Rebellion is a damn sight better than Fair City. I hope RTE don't use this as an excuse to scale back on drama, just a message that they need to produce better quality drama

The +7 ratings seem to have it doing okay, I assume they're the ones RTÉ are going by and most channels go by those nowadays. I was comparing it to the list of Top 20 most watched TV shows in Ireland last year and sports aside there's not a lot of original programming on it. Rebellion's first 2 episodes would definitely sit high on last years list.

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

If Rebellion had been on BBC1, it would be certain to get another series as it would be deemed a "success".

Nope. You don't know what kind of figures it would get on BBC and are just making stuff up.

Regards...jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

The UK market would be a logical one followed by the US market. There's also the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand markets.

Promotion for short series tends to be trickier than that for long run series. At best, Rebellion is a movie of the week kind product. It definitely isn't a primetime series.

Regards...jmcc

You're agreeing with me on both points.

kabakuyu

jmcc wrote: »

The UK market would be a logical one followed by the US market. There's also the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand markets.

Promotion for short series tends to be trickier than that for long run series. At best, Rebellion is a movie of the week kind product. It definitely isn't a primetime series.

Regards...jmcc

I still hope someone buys it and some revenue is recouped but RTE should be discouraged from producing a follow up series.
A new writing/production/direction team is needed for any future plans for a depiction of the Civil War or WOI, maybe a more independent company would be a wise choice.

jmcc

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You're agreeing with me on both points.

Not exactly. You seem to think in UK and US terms and missed the other English language markets. The promotion one is the important one. You seem to think that it is easy to promote it but short series are more difficult because they are effectively like one-off programmes. The broadcaster has to choose what it will promote and how. It comes down to money and getting the best return.

Regards...jmcc