2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Shurimgreat wrote: »

There are lots of channels and online etc that don't depend on advertising and are subscription only. Amazon prime, netflix and sundance (I think) are examples. Alao Sky movies on demand. Its already signed up to Sundance and they might have a say on whether there is a new series.

Sundance used to be ad free but changed a few years ago. HBO, I think, don't have ads, BBC obviously. There are loads of stations don't rely on advertising.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

No. You seem to think in UK and US terms and missed the other English language markets. The promotion one is the important one. You seem to think that it is easy to promote it but short series are more difficult because they are effectively like one-off programmes. The broadcaster has to choose what it will promote and how. It comes down to money and getting the best return.

Most channels/networks buying in something from abroad do not do a full on promotional campaign for it. Ads on their own channel, push it on social media and a few reviews/previews in the papers/TV mags. They're not going to be doing a massive publicity tour or having to create anything themselves, unless of course they wanted to.

Australian/New Zealand viewing figures would be very similar to our own, so my point about what would or wouldn't be deemed a success goes for those markets too.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

kabakuyu wrote: »

I still hope someone buys it and some revenue is recouped but RTE should be discouraged from producing a follow up series.
A new writing/production/direction team is needed for any future plans for a depiction of the Civil War or WOI, maybe an independent company would be a wise choice.

It was made by an independent company, as most things are. RTÉ, and other stations, produce very little of their original content in house.

kabakuyu

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It was made by an independent company, as most things are. RTÉ, and other stations, produce very little of their original content in house.

But what was RTE's brief, surely they approved script, are you saying that RTE had no input into "Rebellion"?

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

Nope. You don't know what kind of figures it would get on BBC and are just making stuff up.

Regards...jmcc

Rebellion had a 30% audience share even towards the end of the series. 'Any' drama series on the BBC or ITV that had a 30% audience share would be renewed.

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

Rebellion had a 30% audience share even towards the end of the series. 'Any' drama series on the BBC or ITV that had a 30% audience share would be renewed.

Ireland != UK.

Regards...jmcc

kabakuyu

Strazdas wrote: »

Rebellion had a 30% audience share even towards the end of the series. 'Any' drama series on the BBC or ITV that had a 30% audience share would be renewed.

But it was a drama about a particular event in history, not series material IMO.
It has had very mixed reviews.
Lets have a new approach from a truly independent company and a new subject matter like the CW or WOI, there is enough talent in this country to produce a seminal Irish drama.:)

It can be done, lets put "Rebellion" to rest.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

kabakuyu wrote: »

But what was RTE's brief, surely they approved script, are you saying that RTE had no input into "Rebellion"?

Obviously they'd have had some input, I'm just pointing out that it was made by an independent production company so your suggestion that having it made by an independent company may make a difference is kind of irrelevant as that's the norm. I doubt RTÉ would agree to pay for and air something they had zero control over.

Strazdas

jmcc wrote: »

Ireland != UK.

Regards...jmcc

The principle of ratings = renewal of the series is probably the same in any country.

We have a scenario of the Irish media deeming Rebellion a "flop", not because the ratings are a disaster but because the hacks who write for them have decided it's a flop.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jmcc wrote: »

Ireland != UK.

Regards...jmcc

30% audience share in the UK is the same as a 30% audience share in Ireland. The actual viewing numbers may differ but the % of the overall audience is the relevant figure.

The Rape of Lucretia

jmcc wrote: »

Not exactly. You seem to think in UK and US terms and missed the other English language markets. The promotion one is the important one. You seem to think that it is easy to promote it but short series are more difficult because they are effectively like one-off programmes. The broadcaster has to choose what it will promote and how. It comes down to money and getting the best return.

Regards...jmcc

You read like you have direct knowledge of the broadcasting industry. The rest of us are just audience members.

The Rape of Lucretia

Strazdas wrote: »

The principle of ratings = renewal of the series is probably the same in any country.

We have a scenario of the Irish media deeming Rebellion a "flop", not because the ratings are a disaster but because the hacks who write for them have decided it's a flop.

True. Which doesnt make it a flop. Rather, maybe the hacks are the flops.

Strazdas

kabakuyu wrote: »

But it was a drama about a particular event in history, not series material IMO.
It has had very mixed reviews.
Lets have a new approach from a truly independent company and a new subject matter like the CW or WOI, there is enough talent in this country to produce a seminal Irish drama.:)

It can be done, lets put "Rebellion" to rest.

"Mixed reviews" is probably a very fair comment. There were good elements and not so good elements in the show, things that worked and others that didn't. But you could say that about many TV dramas. Only a relatively smaller number gain cult status like a Strumpet City or a Brideshead Revisited or whatever.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You read like you have direct knowledge of the broadcasting industry.

If you are naughty and using card sharing to watch programmes and channels, you are using something I invented as a theory a long time ago while working with Pay TV systems and related stuff. My knowledge of the field, what I remember of it, comes from dealing directly with broadcasters and others.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Strazdas wrote: »

The principle of ratings = renewal of the series is probably the same in any country.

You seem to be assuming that the Irish market is directly equivalent to the UK market and Rebellion would get the same kind of audience.

We have a scenario of the Irish media deeming Rebellion a "flop", not because the ratings are a disaster but because the hacks who write for them have decided it's a flop.

No. The critics started out praising it and then when the reception turned sour, they had to be seen to be in tune with their readers. The hacks didn't decide it was a flop.

Regards...jmcc

kabakuyu

Strazdas wrote: »

The principle of ratings = renewal of the series is probably the same in any country.

We have a scenario of the Irish media deeming Rebellion a "flop", not because the ratings are a disaster but because the hacks who write for them have decided it's a flop.

But is it just the "Media"? In a non scientific vox pop at work no one was positive about "Rebellion", there was a general sense of disappointment,not one person was positive towards the series, methinks hacks were right this time.;)

JohnFalstaff

kabakuyu wrote: »

But what was RTE's brief, surely they approved script, are you saying that RTE had no input into "Rebellion"?

You can be sure that RTE had a massive amount of input into the scripts and the overall creation of this project.

And if the RTE drama department are true to form the negative reception that Rebellion has received will see them cut the current writer loose and move onto the next useful idiot.

RTE have a bad track record when it comes to dealing with writers:
http://www.thejournal.ie/graham-linehan-angry-2071087-Apr2015/

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

You can be sure that RTE had a massive amount of input into the scripts and the overall creation of this project.

And if the RTE drama department are true to form the negative reception that Rebellion has received will see them cut the current writer loose and move onto the next useful idiot.

RTE have a bad track record when it comes to dealing with writers:
http://www.thejournal.ie/graham-linehan-angry-2071087-Apr2015/

This guy wrote Charlie though which I didn't watch but I haven't seen one good thing said about it and it suffered a huge ratings drop from it's first episode to it's second.

Strazdas

kabakuyu wrote: »

But is it just the "Media"? In a non scientific vox pop at work no one was positive about "Rebellion", there was a general sense of disappointment,not one person was positive towards the series, methinks hacks were right this time.;)

That may well be the case. I have a feeling though that people were expecting too much from the series. RTE were saying for ages that it would be one of the highlights of their 1916 anniversary coverage and there was a lot of talk about it costing €6m. It may be that people were expecting some big sweeping epic about the Rising that would blow everyone away and would be deemed a big success. When people discovered that it was a rather more run of the mill mini series with the Rising as it's backdrop, this may have led to a sense of disappointment especially as it was far from perfect and some aspects clearly didn't work.

kabakuyu

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Obviously they'd have had some input, I'm just pointing out that it was made by an independent production company so your suggestion that having it made by an independent company may make a difference is kind of irrelevant as that's the norm. I doubt RTÉ would agree to pay for and air something they had zero control over.

I wonder why, are we to be subjected to view programmes that only RTE deem to be suitable and in the historical context that they see fit?
Lets have another channel have a go, I would actually prefer if a non-Irish company/channel had a go at Irish history,maybe a no baggage/agenda would be surprising.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This guy wrote Charlie though which I didn't watch but I haven't seen one good thing said about it and it suffered a huge ratings drop from it's first episode to it's second.

I watched Charlie myself and Episode 1 was deadly dull. It just plodded along and that Nidge guy seemed wooden in the lead role. Ironically Episodes 2 and 3 were far better but by then the damage was done.

kabakuyu

Strazdas wrote: »

That may well be the case. I have a feeling though that people were expecting too much from the series. RTE were saying for ages that it would be one of the highlights of their 1916 anniversary coverage and there was a lot of talk about it costing €6m. It may be that people were expecting some big sweeping epic about the Rising that would blow everyone away and would be deemed a big success. When people discovered that it was a rather more run of the mill mini series with the Rising as it's backdrop, this may have led to a sense of disappointment especially as it was far from perfect and some aspects clearly didn't work.

Very true, the sense of disappointment and missed opportunity were the comments that were most prevalent,but then RTE should be held culpable as they raised expectations and hyped the series.
It is imperative that the same mistake is not made on any future historical productions.

JohnFalstaff

kabakuyu wrote: »

I wonder why, are we to be subjected to view programmes that only RTE deem to be suitable and in the historical context that they see fit?
Lets have another channel have a go, I would actually prefer if a non-Irish company/channel had a go at Irish history,maybe a no baggage/agenda would be surprising.

Rebellion was made by a non Irish production company. Touchpaper TV are based in the UK and attached to Zodiak Media, an international production outfit.

But that won't tell you much about why Rebellion failed as a piece of television.

You need only look at Ken Loach and The Wind That Shakes the Barley to see how a successful dramatic piece of work based on Irish history can be achieved.

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

Ireland != UK.

Regards...jmcc

Most period dramas on a sunday night do well on british tv and many of them are a damn sight worse than Rebellion.

Downton Abbey, Poldark and so on..all popular, all renewed and not exactly world class tv although probably better than Rebellion in your book even though you compared Rebellion to Downton earlier.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

kabakuyu wrote: »

I wonder why, are we to be subjected to view programmes that only RTE deem to be suitable and in the historical context that they see fit?
Lets have another channel have a go, I would actually prefer if a non-Irish company/channel had a go at Irish history,maybe a no baggage/agenda would be surprising.

TG4 and TV3 have their own ones in the works. TV3 are doing an imagined trial of the leaders and I believe TG4's one was supposed to be about time travellers accidentally finding themselves in the middle of the Rising. I haven't heard much about that one lately though.

Shurimgreat

Rebellion was subtle. Because it wasn't explosive shoot 'em up like love/hate or scandalous like Charlie it wasn't going to attract the attention of many people.

Lets be honest here...the average tv viewer/twitter commentator is excited by Aidan Turner taking his shirt off and will tune in next week to see if similar happens. Thats about the level of sophistication you find on twitter. Unless there's an explosive "omg" moment they tune out. And of course the odd time the writer of Rebellion tried to introduce such a moment he was screamed at by the history anoraks who said it never happened. This is why many people were disappointed.

There would of course be a more sophisticated clientelle on this thread!

Strazdas

kabakuyu wrote: »

Very true, the sense of disappointment and missed opportunity were the comments that were most prevalent,but then RTE should be held culpable as they raised expectations and hyped the series.
It is imperative that the same mistake is not made on any future historical productions.

Funnily enough, my expectations were much lower and Rebellion turned out to be better than I expected (!) When I heard RTE were going to have a go at dramatising the Rising, I wasn't overly optimistic based on their past dramatic output (Charlie, Amber, Clean Break etc) but it looked far better than I had anticipated and managed to hold my attention over the five episodes.

Shurimgreat

jmcc wrote: »

If you are naughty and using card sharing to watch programmes and channels, you are using something I invented as a theory a long time ago while working with Pay TV systems and related stuff. My knowledge of the field, what I remember of it, comes from dealing directly with broadcasters and others.

Regards...jmcc

So your insider knowledge of tv amounts to inventing something related to the little cards you plug into a subscription box?

For a while there I thought you'd trained as a screenwriter or something and had a few scripts rejected by rte.

Writing something like Rebellion is quite tough I'd imagine. Getting the balance right is very difficult. Its possible the writer didnt get the balance between historical and fictional characters right but he seemed to be on a loser from the start. No matter what he did was going to be wrong in the eyes of many.

You could get Stephen King to write it and it would still be wrong.

As for alternative writers possibly Roddy Doyle was worth a try.

Strazdas

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Rebellion was made by a non Irish production company. Touchpaper TV are based in the UK and attached to Zodiak Media, an international production outfit.

But that won't tell you much about why Rebellion failed as a piece of television.

You need only look at Ken Loach and The Wind That Shakes the Barley to see how a successful dramatic piece of work based on Irish history can be achieved.

I wasn't overly keen on The Wind That Shakes The Barley and I sense it wouldn't have worked as a TV series at all. It was a bit too dark and "worthy" for TV drama.

Shurimgreat

Strazdas wrote: »

Funnily enough, my expectations were much lower and Rebellion turned out to be better than I expected (!) When I heard RTE were going to have a go at dramatising the Rising, I wasn't overly optimistic based on their past dramatic output (Charlie, Amber, Clean Break etc) but it looked far better than I had anticipated and managed to hold my attention over the five episodes.

Its all subjective Strazdas. Different people like different programs. I thought overall it was decent. I didn't know Steve Wall could act for example and yet he was pretty good, had the scheming detective look down to a tee. Whatever people might say about the plot, the acting was good all around with one or two exceptions, mainly lesser characters. The English characters were convincing, and probably outshone the Irish actors. The big fault was the shortage of time in developing the fictional characters. If the writer had been given a number of series this would be achieved. But he was only given 5 episodes and one mini series which made it very difficult.