2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

josephryan1989

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Learn something new everyday, never knew any of that.

You can spot them a mile away with their hipstery carry on. Usually actresses and artists and progressives and lefties. They talk today more like English and Americans and act all like superior and condecending toward Irish culture. They are the type who couldn't find Croke Park on a map. ðŸ˜

Hitchens

katemarch wrote: »

Thouyght it was excellent but my teeth put on edge by some modern turns of speech.
"i'm good" - they never would have said that in answer toy "how are you?"

"I'm good" meant - I am a good person
"I'm well" meant - (as you might imagine) I am well.

And the scene where the two girls argue "I'd rather be F V cked by an Englishman than brainwashed by an Irish" or words to that effect -

Well - I really do not think the girls would have used such blunt language of their sexual lives. And I believe the word "brain-washing" may not even have been invented yet.

I understand the challenge of period drama - they have to make it accessible and engaging for modern viewers - but anachronisms are a shot of cold water to the illusion.

so, should the actor playing Pearse have a bad squint then?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

josephryan1989 wrote: »

You can spot them a mile away with their hipstery carry on. Usually actresses and artists and progressives and lefties. They talk today more like English and Americans and act all like superior and condecending toward Irish culture. They are the type who couldn't find Croke Park on a map. ðŸ˜

That's a bit harsh. Most of those English/American accents and affectations are universal among a certain age group now, nothing to do with being "West Brits" or anything of the sort. But we're straying very off topic now... kind of.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Not having a go at you here but I find that a lot of people actually have very little knowledge of the history of Ireland around that time. Many people assume that the whole country was pro independence and think the Rising was a huge success and are oblivious to the Ulster Covenant and other such things.

Thinking back to the brief bit of this I was thought in primary school it was all very one sided and not much more than propaganda, to be honest. I'd assume a lot of people got the same education. I only did history to Junior Cert level and my teacher decided to start at the front of the massive text book and work our way through. We never got to modern Ireland, I think the Louisiana Purchase was the most modern history we covered

If you go back a generation more you'd have kids being thought by people who were still very much Dev or Collins and they were probably getting very specific versions of events too.

There was a great series on TG4 not that long ago that covered a lot of the Rising, the first series focused on the the "forgotten" leaders that were executed, i.e the less famous names. It's worth tracking down if you can.

It's good that the series is redressing the balance ie showing Dublin people singing God Save The King on the day WW1 broke out and Jimmy coming back from the front in 1916 and finding those agitating for Irish independence utterly ridiculous.

The version that was handed down for decades was that Ireland was a hotbed of nationalism in 1916, when the series is illustrating that such individuals were on the fringes of society and often regarded with scorn by their fellow Irish citizens.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

It's good that the series is redressing the balance ie showing Dublin people singing God Save The King on the day WW1 broke out and Jimmy coming back from the front in 1916 and finding those agitating for Irish independence utterly ridiculous.

The version that was handed down for decades was that Ireland was a hotbed of nationalism in 1916, when the series is illustrating that such individuals were on the fringes of society and often regarded with scorn by their fellow Irish citizens.

I remember hearing that locals ratted some of the rebels out to the Army too. As I said yesterday it was really the response to the Rising that swung the tide.

josephryan1989

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I remember hearing that locals ratted some of the rebels out to the Army too. As I said yesterday it was really the response to the Rising that swung the tide.

Some of the Trinity students were training to go to war so when the Rising began they were shooting at the GPO from the roof. A rebel messenger was shot off his bicycle on Dame Street. Many of the rebels were UCD students.

Years later when Germany lost World War 2 the Trinity students raised the Union Jack and a group of UCD students came up to College Green and beat them up and burned the flag. The leader of the UCD boys was Charlie Haughey.

In regard to Irish republicanism the most republican organistation is the GAA but far and away the most popular sports in Ireland pre-independence were soccer rugby and cricket. Today GAA is weak on the ground outside of the big counties where only a few parishes actually are any good. And in any parish it's only a few families who actually play.

There is a silent majority who don't actually follow the GAA at all in Dublin and nationally.

The same was true in the past during the War of Independence when there were really only a few thousand active gunmen and most of the people were on the sidelines looking on.

Generally speaking where the GAA was active so was the IRA so it's no accident that during the War Of Independence the conflict was confined to few areas in Cork and Tipperary and Dublin. Most of the country was mostly peaceful with no activity at all.

spurious

Hitchens wrote: »

so, should the actor playing Pearse have a bad squint then?

I thought he did have a bit of a turn to be honest.
I don't need absolute historical accuracy and could forgive the double yellow lines, but using terms that had not beein coined such as brainwashing (when there are other perfectly acceptable substitutes) is lazy writing. I shall await them googling the best way to march to the GPO.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

spurious wrote: »

I thought he did have a bit of a turn to be honest.
I don't need absolute historical accuracy and could forgive the double yellow lines, but using terms that had not beein coined such as brainwashing (when there are other perfectly acceptable substitutes) is lazy writing. I shall await them googling the best way to march to the GPO.

Be honest now, did you know brainwashing wasn't around until the 50's when you watched the show or did you read the review in the Indo (I think?) that pointed it out? Because most people reacted to the use of the word "f**king" in that scene. It was only when I went to see if that word was used back then that I found articles mentioning the other word.

Also, one article says that at a press screening before Christmas the writer was asked about the use of the F word but there's no mention of anyone asking about the use of the word brainwashing, so obviously the journalists now pointing it out either weren't at the press screening or went home and googled the historical origins of every word in the script.

wp_rathead

finally got the RTE Player going and gave it a watch, enjoyable enough opening episode..
Jaysus all the mustaches make it confusing though

HeidiHeidi

wp_rathead wrote: »

finally got the RTE Player going and gave it a watch, enjoyable enough opening episode..
Jaysus all the mustaches make it confusing though

+1

Galwayguy35

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I remember hearing that locals ratted some of the rebels out to the Army too. As I said yesterday it was really the response to the Rising that swung the tide.

Very sad if that's the case that they wanted to keep living under Brit rule and sent good men to their deaths by ratting on them.

spurious

'Mesmerism' and its associated music hall acts were popular in Ireland in the 19th century, which is why brain-washing was an awkward choice of phrase when there was a perfectly valid subsitute.

The F word thing jarred because of the class of woman who was supposed to be saying it. I've no doubt the word was well in use in Dublin at the time, though perhaps not in tree lined Georgian middle class terraces. The same problem existed in Downton, where a woman with Lady Mary's sexual history (or even rumours of it) would have been the talk of the town and not considered a worthwhile wife by anyone, much less pursued by a line of blokes.

IllBeGrand

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Today GAA is weak on the ground outside of the big counties where only a few parishes actually are any good. And in any parish it's only a few families who actually play.

Crazy stuff here.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Very sad if that's the case that they wanted to keep living under Brit rule and sent good men to their deaths by ratting on them.

Many people living in Dublin in particular were getting on perfectly fine under British rule. A lot of people may have just been sick of constant fighting and were trying to make the best out of the situation they were in. You can't really judge anyone in these situations too harshly. I think anyway.

Galwayguy35

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Many people living in Dublin in particular were getting on perfectly fine under British rule. A lot of people may have just been sick of constant fighting and were trying to make the best out of the situation they were in. You can't really judge anyone in these situations too harshly. I think anyway.

Where I'm from there would have been a lot of resentment to everything that was classed as British, the landlords were brutal in their treatment of tenants.

josephryan1989

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Very sad if that's the case that they wanted to keep living under Brit rule and sent good men to their deaths by ratting on them.

Modern Dublin was built by the British, many of it upper crust were essentially British people living in Ireland and the Dublin working class apart from their accents were no different from the working class in Liverpool Glasgow or London. The DMP were the same as police forces in any other British city.

Small wonder Irish Republicanism was scorned.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Where I'm from there would have been a lot of resentment to everything that was classed as British, the landlords were brutal in their treatment of tenants.

Most of the upper classes were essentially British themselves, the middle classes were happily making a living off the large numbers of soldiers, civil servants etc. stationed in Dublin. It was the poorest of the poor that were the foot soldiers, as is always the case. The disenfranchised and the very young are the easiest to "brainwash" for want of a better word.

Strazdas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Modern Dublin was built by the British, many of it upper crust were essentially British people living in Ireland and the Dublin working class apart from their accents were no different from the working class in Liverpool Glasgow or London. The DMP were the same as police forces in any other British city.

Small wonder Irish Republicanism was scorned.

One thing that strikes me watching the show is how the Rising and it's aftermath poisoned relations between Ireland and Britain for many decades to come. Dubliners in 1916 were quite comfortable living in a "British" city and with the Union Jack flying over it. Within a decade or two, the atmosphere between the two countries was hostile and ugly, all because of that six year period of violence after the Rising.

You can't help wonder what relations would have been like between the two if the Rising had never happened.

josephryan1989

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Many people living in Dublin in particular were getting on perfectly fine under British rule. A lot of people may have just been sick of constant fighting and were trying to make the best out of the situation they were in. You can't really judge anyone in these situations too harshly. I think anyway.

That continued after independence. Many of the Free State Army who later fought the IRA were ex-British Army veterans of Irish Regiments and today many serving members of the Irish Defence forces have ancestors who served in British uniform in the 19th and 18th centuries. Lots of RIC men joined the Gardai and the G men and Dublin Castle detectives who were fighting Collins Squad later joined forces and became the Special Branch. Civil servants jailers postemen and judges simply swapped the Crown for the Harp and kept their jobs and live went on. The green letter boxes still have British crests in them under all the layers of green paint.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

One thing that strikes me watching the show is how the Rising and it's aftermath poisoned relations between Ireland and Britain for many decades to come. Dubliners in 1916 were quite comfortable living in a "British" city and with the Union Jack flying over it. Within a decade or two, the atmosphere between the two countries was hostile and ugly, all because of that six year period of violence after the Rising.

You can't help wonder what relations would have been like between the two if the Rising had never happened.

If we had "behaved" during the period of WW1 and they'd given us Home Rule as promised there would have been a civil war sooner than we had it with the Unionists in the North kicking off. Not sure what that would have meant for Irish/English relations though.

xlogo

Wonder when Nidge will turn-up and as who?????

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

If we had "behaved" during the period of WW1 and they'd given us Home Rule as promised there would have been a civil war sooner than we had it with the Unionists in the North kicking off. Not sure what that would have meant for Irish/English relations though.

I'd agree on the North vs South civil war, though how the British would have reacted to this is anyone's guess. Certainly though, all our hang ups about the British and their flag and the royal family and all that seem to stem directly from that poisonous 1916-22 period.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

Wonder when Nidge will turn-up and as who?????

You'd swear RTÉ was the only station that had actors show up in more than one program.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

I'd agree on the North vs South civil war, though how the British would have reacted to this is anyone's guess. Certainly though, all our hang ups about the British and their flag and the royal family and all that seem to stem directly from that poisonous 1916-22 period.

Indeed. I was always under the impression, and still am, that Britain couldn't care less about Northern Ireland and would hand it back to the Republic in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the Unionists. Although, to be fair, much like Dublin in 1916, there are plenty of people who may consider themselves Irish living in Northern Ireland who, when push comes to shove, are perfectly happy living up there the way things are now.

Back then though, who knows. They didn't concern themselves too much when half the country was dying during the famine, so they may not have been overly concerned if we started killing each other. They may not have intervened one way or the other until one side looked like having the upper hand. Revoke home rule or start cracking down on the Unionists.

That would make a good series for TV. A bit like that new Amazon one, The Man in the High Castle, about what the USA might have been like if the Nazis had won WW2. A re imagining of Irish history if the Rising hadn't happened or even if the British hadn't reacted as they did.

The Rape of Lucretia

Disappointing in the main.

There is a feeling that the rebels are being cynically humanised or sanitised by wrapping them in the soap opera of their personal lives.

A very questionable presentation of this handful of violent thugs and traitors who set Ireland on the road to partition, and part of it out of the first class carriage of the worlds countries that was the Empire, into 100 years peripheral insignificance. Add in the economic and religious backwardness, repeated incidences of its inability to govern itself responsibly, regular waves of exporting its population when unable to sustain them, and truly shameful refusal to behave as a civilised nation and play a positive role in the second world war, and the contrast with these characters portrayed is particularly jarring.
It would seem the characters in this drama are getting a very generous whitewash, without any of their crimes that have rippled down the decades being examined.
Early days, and we can hope is a deliberate policy, highlighting their crimes as their rebellion really gets underway. Will give the next episode a go in hope. Well acted.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Disappointing in the main.

There is a feeling that the rebels are being cynically humanised or sanitised by wrapping them in the soap opera of their personal lives.

A very questionable presentation of this handful of violent thugs and traitors who set Ireland on the road to partition, and part of it out of the first class carriage of the worlds countries that was the Empire, into 100 years peripheral insignificance. Add in the economic and religious backwardness, repeated incidences of its inability to govern itself responsibly, regular waves of exporting its population when unable to sustain them, and truly shameful refusal to behave as a civilised nation and play a positive role in the second world war, and the contrast with these characters portrayed is particularly jarring.
It would seem the characters in this drama are getting a very generous whitewash, without any of their crimes that have rippled down the decades being examined.
Early days, and we can hope is a deliberate policy, highlighting their crimes as their rebellion really gets underway. Will give the next episode a go in hope. Well acted.

Not to mention yer man Jimmy is a ginger and we're supposed to believe he has friends!

Strazdas

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Disappointing in the main.

There is a feeling that the rebels are being cynically humanised or sanitised by wrapping them in the soap opera of their personal lives.

A very questionable presentation of this handful of violent thugs and traitors who set Ireland on the road to partition, and part of it out of the first class carriage of the worlds countries that was the Empire, into 100 years peripheral insignificance. Add in the economic and religious backwardness, repeated incidences of its inability to govern itself responsibly, regular waves of exporting its population when unable to sustain them, and truly shameful refusal to behave as a civilised nation and play a positive role in the second world war, and the contrast with these characters portrayed is particularly jarring.
It would seem the characters in this drama are getting a very generous whitewash, without any of their crimes that have rippled down the decades being examined.
Early days, and we can hope is a deliberate policy, highlighting their crimes as their rebellion really gets underway. Will give the next episode a go in hope. Well acted.

Wouldn't disagree with the bulk of what you are saying. The period 1922-60 was a catastrophe for Ireland. I was watching the Luke Kelly documentary on RTE last week and they pointed out that men like Luke weren't just fleeing poverty when they emigrated to the UK in the 1950s but the repressive and restricted nature of the country. Didn't help that we ended up with a conservative and religious zealot like Dev running the country for decades.

xlogo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

You'd swear RTÉ was the only station that had actors show up in more than one program.

What other station has such a high number the same actors in two of its main productions? Or any of it's productions.

TCDStudent1

Strazdas wrote: »

I'd agree on the North vs South civil war, though how the British would have reacted to this is anyone's guess. Certainly though, all our hang ups about the British and their flag and the royal family and all that seem to stem directly from that poisonous 1916-22 period.

Perhaps you can apply that to Dublin.

But in areas where the Land War happened, there were other reasons to have anti-British sentiment. Similarly, places where the Famine had a big impact would be susceptible to anti-British sentiment.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

What other station has such a high number the same actors in two of its main productions? Or any of it's productions.

Watch anything on BBC and you'll recognise all the cast from something else you've seen on BBC. American networks do it too. Someone does a guest spot on one show, shows up a whlie later as a recurring character on another show before becoming a series regular on a third one. Happens all the time.
Besides, it's not like they've taken half the cast of Fair City and put them in period clothes. They're all perfectly good actors, why not cast them.

EDIT: Look at BBC's current big production War and Peace.
James Norton was in Happy Valley.
Jessie Buckley was in The Outcast.
Tom Burke was in The Musketeers.
Tuppence Middleton and Stephen Rea are both currently in Dickensian.
Gillian Anderson was in The Fall.
Jim Broadbent was in The Go-Between and London Spy.

That's just off the top of my head. And all very recent series.

RTÉ doesn't prdouce as many series as the BBC does so it's going to appear worse than it actually is.