2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

xlogo

Exactly - all the actors you listed are from different programs - not just the 2 on RTE (love hate and this new one)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

Exactly - all the actors you listed are from different programs - not just the 2 on RTE (love hate and this new one)

As I said the fact that RTE doesn't produce as many dramas as BBC makes it look worse than it is. And I still don't see what the problem is? Three of the main characters were in Love/Hate. Two of them way back in the early series. A few minor characters were also minor characters on it. So?

EDIT: I checked the crew list for this and it turns out the same casting director was used for Rebellion, Love/Hate, Raw, Charlie and Amber. Personally I don't have a problem with the same actors showing up in different things, however it does seem remarkably lazy of her

xlogo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

As I said the fact that RTE doesn't produce as many dramas as BBC makes it look worse than it is. And I still don't see what the problem is? Three of the main characters were in Love/Hate. Two of them way back in the early series. A few minor characters were also minor characters on it. So?

Plenty of other talent out there looking for a break / chance - that's what's 'so'.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

Plenty of other talent out there looking for a break / chance - that's what's 'so'.

Perhaps they should get better agents.

TCDStudent1

xlogo wrote: »

Plenty of other talent out there looking for a break / chance - that's what's 'so'.

And if they cast unknown actors, you'd have people complaining 'with all the money they had, they should have cast known actors'......

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

And if they cast unknown actors, you'd have people complaining 'with all the money they had, they should have cast known actors'......

Not to mention the fact that casting known names/faces helps get things produced/distributed.

xlogo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

Perhaps they should get better agents.

Supreme logic - I think I'll leave it there.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

Supreme logic - I think I'll leave it there.

My logic is fine. A lot of well known Irish actors have the same agent here, and they all get work.

Strazdas

The main thing is that the three female leads work fine in their roles and that's all that matters.

xlogo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

My logic is fine. A lot of well known Irish actors have the same agent here, and they all get work.

Ahh - the old Irish way - it's not what you know but who you know.

xlogo

Strazdas wrote:

The main thing is that the three female leads work fine in their roles and that's all that matters.

Are you saying the male actors don't?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

xlogo wrote: »

Ahh - the old Irish way - it's not what you know but who you know.

Or the most talented actors get on the books of the best agents and book regular jobs.

That's how it works. Casting directors send out casting sides to agencies, agents put any suitable actors forward, actors audition and book jobs. Sometimes actors do such a good job that casting director will ask for them by name when casting another production and they don't have to audition.

Getting a good agent is the key to everything.

Strazdas

xlogo wrote: »

Are you saying the male actors don't?

No, good performances from them too : looks like the two brothers on opposite sides of the fence are the two lead male roles going by the official promo poster for the series.

josephryan1989

Strazdas wrote: »

One thing that strikes me watching the show is how the Rising and it's aftermath poisoned relations between Ireland and Britain for many decades to come. Dubliners in 1916 were quite comfortable living in a "British" city and with the Union Jack flying over it. Within a decade or two, the atmosphere between the two countries was hostile and ugly, all because of that six year period of violence after the Rising.

You can't help wonder what relations would have been like between the two if the Rising had never happened.

There was a counter revolution after the end of the Civil War. The government shot 77 Republican prisoners who were condemned by military courts in 1923. Thousands of Republican prisoners were released and many of them headed straight for the emigrant boats. The Free State Army almost fought another Civil War when the Boundary Commission left partition in place and didn't redraw the border to exclude majority Catholic counties in Ulster from Northern Ireland. Thousands of troops went back to civilian life and they too left on the emigrant boats. Some reward they got for fighting their own countrymen with a British threat of invasion forcing its Free State puppets to betray the ideals of 1916.

The Fianna Fail party won huge popularity under Valera because many people resented the repressive state which was under undue influence from Britain. The people were still paying land annuities for loans decades before which allowed them to buy their land from British landlords. Fianna Fail dismantled the Treaty of 1921 and stopped the land annuities. The British responded with a trade war in an attempt to ruin the Irish people but eventually were forced by world opinion to back off. Ireland paid a one off payment to clear the annuities and got back our ports which kept us out of World War 2.

Early in the war we were indanger of being invaded by Britain or America just as Iceland and Greenland were. If Britain got an opportunity to crush Irish freedom using the excuse of wartime necessity they would have done so.

qweerty

@josephryan, I don't mean to patronise you, as you are obviously well read in Irish history. But you seem oblivious to the fact that historical analysis is interpretation of events rather than the uncovering of some objective truth. As such, I feel you really ought to be less didactic with what are, no-doubt educated, opinions.

Strazdas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There was a counter revolution after the end of the Civil War. The government shot 77 Republican prisoners who were condemned by military courts in 1923. Thousands of Republican prisoners were released and many of them headed straight for the emigrant boats. The Free State Army almost fought another Civil War when the Boundary Commission left partition in place and didn't redraw the border to exclude majority Catholic counties in Ulster from Northern Ireland. Thousands of troops went back to civilian life and they too left on the emigrant boats.

The Fianna Fail party won huge popularity under Dr Valera because many people resented the repressive state which was under undue influence from Britain. The people were still paying land annuities for loans decades before which allowed them to buy their land from British landlords. Fianna Fail dismantled the Treaty of 1921 and stopped the land annuities. The British responded with a trade war in an attempt to ruin the Irish people but eventually were forced by world opinion to back off. Ireland paid a one off payment to clear the annuities and got back our posts which kept us out of World War 2.

Early in the war we were indanger of being invaded by Britain or America just as Iceland and Greenland were.

The problem is that the six years of violence post-1916 fouled relations between the two countries. The War of Independence was vicious with numerous atrocities by both sides (the British ones are well documented including sending in the Black and Tans, Bloody Sunday etc).

I think all of the hang ups for decades about the British and the Union Jack and the royal family etc date back to that horrible six year period. As the series points out, Irish people were perfectly at ease living in a "British" city in early 1916, even though there was desperate hardship and poverty. These ideas about regarding everything British as toxic only came about as a result of the Rising and War of Independence.

TCDStudent1

Strazdas wrote: »

The problem is that the six years of violence post-1916 fouled relations between the two countries. The War of Independence was vicious with numerous atrocities by both sides (the British ones are well documented including sending in the Black and Tans, Bloody Sunday etc).

I think all of the hang ups for decades about the British and the Union Jack and the royal family etc date back to that horrible six year period. As the series points out, Irish people were perfectly at ease living in a "British" city in early 1916, even though there was desperate hardship and poverty. These ideas about regarding everything British as toxic only came about as a result of the Rising and War of Independence.

Obviously those 6 years didn't help in relations between the 2 countries. However suggesting they are the sole reason for 'fouled relations' is wrong.

The famine, the Fenian rebellions, the land war and the Gaelic league all played their part in the Easter rising eventually occurring. You are under-estimating these events. All of these gave rise to anti-British and pro-Irish views before 1916.

Rebellion has done a very good job so far to show the mix of people living in Dublin at the time - those loyal to king (Elizabeth's parents), those who believe very much in Irish language and Irish patriotism (Frances), those who aren't really political and torn based on personal affiliations (may), those who were strong believers of socialism (jimmy), those who went to fight in ww1 thinking it was the best way to serve Ireland (jimmys brother), and those who were born into wealthy families but see the injustice of the country they live in (Elizabeth).

There is no doubt that there was more pro-British sentiment before 1916. This is reflected in the Kings visit in 1911 where he was widely cheered on the streets of Dublin. This is very well portrayed in RTE's Strumpet City. And Dubliners being known as 'jackeens' originated from the welcome they gave British kings. It's also reflected by the reception the rebels were given by their own people in the immediate aftermath of the rising where they were widely jeered.

The land war is a particular interest of mine and I have read many newspaper articles and poems of that time lambasting the British royal family and British rule. So I think it's unfair to pin everything down to the period 1916-1922.

josephryan1989

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Obviously those 6 years didn't help in relations between the 2 countries. However suggesting they are the sole reason for 'fouled relations' is wrong.

The famine, the Fenian rebellions, the land war and the Gaelic league all played their part in the Easter rising eventually occurring. You are under-estimating these events. All of these gave rise to anti-British and pro-Irish views before 1916.

Rebellion has done a very good job so far to show the mix of people living in Dublin at the time - those loyal to king (Elizabeth's parents), those who believe very much in Irish language and Irish patriotism (Frances), those who aren't really political and torn based on personal affiliations (may), those who were strong believers of socialism (jimmy), those who went to fight in ww1 thinking it was the best way to serve Ireland (jimmys brother), and those who were born into wealthy families but see the injustice of the country they live in (Elizabeth).

There is no doubt that there was more pro-British sentiment before 1916. This is reflected in the Kings visit in 1911 where he was widely cheered on the streets of Dublin. This is very well portrayed in RTE's Strumpet City. And Dubliners being known as 'jackeens' originated from the welcome they gave British kings. It's also reflected by the reception the rebels were given by their own people in the immediate aftermath of the rising where they were widely jeered.

The land war is a particular interest of mine and I have read many newspaper articles and poems of that time lambasting the British royal family and British rule. So I think it's unfair to pin everything down to the period 1916-1922.

The generation who were born after the 1798 rebellion, the 1800 Act of Union and Emmets rebellion in 1803 supported O'Connell and Catholic Emancipation in the 1820s fought the Tithe War in the 1830s and starved to death in the Famine in the 1840s. Men who lived through the Famine as children or were born immediately after and grew up on tales of British villany to become Fenian rebels in the 1860s had mostly become Home Rulers by the early twentieth century. These were the bearded old men who both inspired the rebels of 1916 but we're also the generation they wanted to outdo and prove wrong.

Although the RIC and British Army had respectability when war broke out folk memory of evictions and injustices over the centuries were just below the surface. When the British unleashed the Tans and Auxies on the Irish people in 1920 the good will of the Irish people was gone.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I know a lot of the posts in here are technically off topic but what a great conversation that's been started after only one episode. I hope the rest of the year's 1916 content is as broad in it's thinking and inspires more of the same.

Strazdas

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Obviously those 6 years didn't help in relations between the 2 countries. However suggesting they are the sole reason for 'fouled relations' is wrong.

The famine, the Fenian rebellions, the land war and the Gaelic league all played their part in the Easter rising eventually occurring. You are under-estimating these events. All of these gave rise to anti-British and pro-Irish views before 1916.

Rebellion has done a very good job so far to show the mix of people living in Dublin at the time - those loyal to king (Elizabeth's parents), those who believe very much in Irish language and Irish patriotism (Frances), those who aren't really political and torn based on personal affiliations (may), those who were strong believers of socialism (jimmy), those who went to fight in ww1 thinking it was the best way to serve Ireland (jimmys brother), and those who were born into wealthy families but see the injustice of the country they live in (Elizabeth).

There is no doubt that there was more pro-British sentiment before 1916. This is reflected in the Kings visit in 1911 where he was widely cheered on the streets of Dublin. This is very well portrayed in RTE's Strumpet City. And Dubliners being known as 'jackeens' originated from the welcome they gave British kings. It's also reflected by the reception the rebels were given by their own people in the immediate aftermath of the rising where they were widely jeered.

The land war is a particular interest of mine and I have read many newspaper articles and poems of that time lambasting the British royal family and British rule. So I think it's unfair to pin everything down to the period 1916-1922.

Yes, I accept that the relations between Ireland and England were nothing like that of those between Scotland / Wales and England. Ireland was always the one who was going to strive for a measure of independence from Britain given the troubled history.

On the subject of Dublin, it's very noticeable that many of the Rising leaders didn't come from the capital (only Pearse and Plunkett I think?) and neither did De Valera and Collins.

weadick

619,000 viewers for the first episode,

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0104/757741-rebellion/

That sounds like a pretty average amount of viewers for a flagship TV production? Considering the amount of advertising it got over the last few months, interviews with the cast, etc I would have thought it would have got much bigger numbers watching.

Heroditas

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Yes they did.
For decades after independence it was common to hear God Save the Queen sung in wealthy areas of South Dublin by West Brits especially in Dun Loaghaire which older resident who lived under British rule still called Kingstown until recently.
At the RDS for many years the horsey set used to sing it too.
Down the country the families of landlords who hadn't packed up and left yet sang it in their mansions but the IRA burned down their houses because they supported the Tans and kicked them out.
There are still a lot of these types around in Dublin and parts of Meath and Kildare and Wicklow who talk in posh Englishy accents.
They mostly vote for Fine Gael now but in the past they voted Unionist or supported the Irish Parliamentary Party.
Dun Laoighaire is the most liberal region in Ireland because a lot of the West Brits became commies in the 1960s and 1970s and supported the Stickies and today they vote for People Before Profit or else the Labour Party.
All the posh rugby colleges and private schools are full of these people and they usually go to British universities for their Third Level education before becoming doctors and business people when they come back.
They usually hate Ireland and try to do down Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein and attack the GAA, Catholicism and Irish Republicanism.
It's no accident that hero is a Citizen Army working class hero who has to be saved by a rich guilty Southside girl.

As somebody who grew up and went to a"posh rugby college" in Dun Laoghaire, I disagree quite strongly with your analysis of the area but I'll respond in more detail later.

CramCycle

weadick wrote: »

619,000 viewers for the first episode,

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0104/757741-rebellion/

That sounds like a pretty average amount of viewers for a flagship TV production? Considering the amount of advertising it got over the last few months, interviews with the cast, etc I would have thought it would have got much bigger numbers watching.

I only watched it as I happened to flick on the box, I had completely forgotten about it until then.

Heroditas wrote: »

As somebody who grew up and went to a"posh rugby college" in Dun Laoghaire, I disagree quite strongly with your analysis of the area but I'll respond in more detail later.

+1 my daughter has a hint of that american/english accent, nothing to do with being a west brit, more to do with television, most kids have a hint of Peppa Pig in their accent these days, my son has inherited his fathers Longford drawl but it doesn't make him more Irish than my daughter. The whole comment was offensive and ill informed.

qweerty

weadick wrote: »

619,000 viewers for the first episode,

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0104/757741-rebellion/

That sounds like a pretty average amount of viewers for a flagship TV production? Considering the amount of advertising it got over the last few months, interviews with the cast, etc I would have thought it would have got much bigger numbers watching.

Given Love/Hate got a million viewers for its finale, that can be thought of as the upper-limit. An average Late Late Show gets about 550k. Anything above 600k is quite unusual. Charlie had 725k for its debut. My thinking is that it's a good-to-very-good showing, but that they might have been expecting a bit more.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

qweerty wrote: »

Given Love/Hate got a million viewers for its finale, that can be thought of as the upper-limit. An average Late Late Show gets about 550k. Anything above 600k is quite unusual. Charlie had 725k for its debut. My thinking is that it's a good-to-very-good showing, but that they might have been expecting a bit more.

People still being in Christmas holiday mode might have had an effect too. Don't know if RTÉ do consolidated figures taking into account numbers watching on catchup for the 7 days after original airing. Lots of chat on twitter too of how it's been geo blocked in Northern Ireland on the RTÉ player which would loose them viewing numbers too.

CramCycle

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

People still being in Christmas holiday mode might have had an effect too. Don't know if RTÉ do consolidated figures taking into account numbers watching on catchup for the 7 days after original airing. Lots of chat on twitter too of how it's been geo blocked in Northern Ireland on the RTÉ player which would loose them viewing numbers too.

Would it really? I would have though viewership was based on republic figures regardless

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CramCycle wrote: »

Would it really? I would have though viewership was based on republic figures regardless

Maybe it is. I don't know. But in terms of getting your product to as big an audience as possible it seems a silly thing to do. I wonder if BBC are planning on showing this at some point? No other reason I can see to block it. Unless everything on the RTE player is blocked in NI?

qweerty

Yeah, just Republic.

45k watched on +1. Yeah, I wonder will many seek it out on Player. I was one, as I very rarely watch live.

MarinersBlues

weadick wrote: »

619,000 viewers for the first episode,

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0104/757741-rebellion/

That sounds like a pretty average amount of viewers for a flagship TV production? Considering the amount of advertising it got over the last few months, interviews with the cast, etc I would have thought it would have got much bigger numbers watching.

There was a lot of advertising about it being on in January, but it wasn't clear that it would be so soon after Christmas.
My gf and I were looking forward to watching it but were caught off guard with it starting on Sunday.

qweerty

Heroditas wrote: »

As somebody who grew up and went to a"posh rugby college" in Dun Laoghaire, I disagree quite strongly with your analysis of the area but I'll respond in more detail later.

Like you, my experience is far from the one described. I can remember when my class went on a hike in transition year, and a bunch of the guys began singing Fields of Athenry, complete with additional IRA lyrics.

Going to English universities is quite rare amongst D4 schools, and usually only done by the brightest students (ie they go for educational reasons).

To some people, any criticism of Sinn Fein must be routed in a supposed-hatred of Ireland rather than a distaste for their previous (and ongoing) IRA links.