2016 RTE Drama: Rebellion - no spoilers please (mod warning in post #1)

jack presley

qweerty wrote: »

@josephryan, I don't mean to patronise you, as you are obviously well read in Irish history. But you seem oblivious to the fact that historical analysis is interpretation of events rather than the uncovering of some objective truth. As such, I feel you really ought to be less didactic with what are, no-doubt educated, opinions.

His understanding of the GAA is pretty poor though ("weak outside the big counties" for example)

qweerty

jack presley wrote: »

His understanding of the GAA is pretty poor though ("weak outside the big counties" for example)

Yeah, I write that in reference to his first few posts. They got a little looser, factually, as they multiplied.

CramCycle

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Maybe it is. I don't know. But in terms of getting your product to as big an audience as possible it seems a silly thing to do. I wonder if BBC are planning on showing this at some point? No other reason I can see to block it. Unless everything on the RTE player is blocked in NI?

Presumably for sales in the future, if it was available in the UK before, the BBC may not want to pay as much for it if they wish to buy it or the BBC may already ahve the rights bought but are not airing it until closer to Easter and therefore RTE would not be allowed show it.

Anyway, OT, apologies.

Strazdas

weadick wrote: »

619,000 viewers for the first episode,

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0104/757741-rebellion/

That sounds like a pretty average amount of viewers for a flagship TV production? Considering the amount of advertising it got over the last few months, interviews with the cast, etc I would have thought it would have got much bigger numbers watching.

Ratings are down across the board though across Ireland and the UK (the Christmas Day ratings on BBC1 were shockingly bad). I'd say 600k+ was very healthy in the current climate.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

Ratings are down across the board though across Ireland and the UK (the Christmas Day ratings on BBC1 were shockingly bad). I'd say 600k+ was very healthy in the current climate.

Mrs. Brown's Boys was the top show on the BBC over Christmas. Over 9 million. Pretty scary :eek:

TerrorFirmer

600K for an RTE drama production is an excellent figure.

Strazdas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Mrs. Brown's Boys was the top show on the BBC over Christmas. Over 9 million. Pretty scary :eek:

I think that's the 2014 figures you're looking at : MBB was down to 6.4m this year.

weadick

MarinersBlues wrote: »

There was a lot of advertising about it being on in January, but it wasn't clear that it would be so soon after Christmas.
My gf and I were looking forward to watching it but were caught off guard with it starting on Sunday.

Personally I would have thought having it on over Easter Week like they did with Insurrection in 66 would have been the ideal time. Think most people are sick of TV after the last few weeks!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Strazdas wrote: »

I think that's the 2014 figures you're looking at : MBB was down to 6.4m this year.

Nope. Consolidated figures for Christmas viewing... http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/downton-abbey/news/a778689/what-were-the-top-10-shows-on-uk-television-this-christmas/

6.something sat down on Christmas Day to watch it "live". 9.49 with +1 and catch up.
Granted the 600k for Rebellion is the "live" figures. Not sure RTE do consolidated figures.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

weadick wrote: »

Personally I would have thought having it on over Easter Week like they did with Insurrection in 66 would have been the ideal time. Think most people are sick of TV after the last few weeks!

True but I assume there's a whole pile more 1916 related viewing coming our way this year.

qweerty

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Nope. Consolidated figures for Christmas viewing... http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/downton-abbey/news/a778689/what-were-the-top-10-shows-on-uk-television-this-christmas/

6.something sat down on Christmas Day to watch it "live". 9.49 with +1 and catch up.
Granted the 600k for Rebellion is the "live" figures. Not sure RTE do consolidated figures.

Your link says Downtown Abbey was top.

Edit: sorry, doesn't affect your initial point.

Wow, it seems the extent of time-shifting is unprecedented: DA and MBB each increasing audience by 50% in week after airing.

Strazdas

qweerty wrote: »

Your link says Downtown Abbey was top.

Edit: sorry, doesn't affect your initial point.

Wow, it seems the extent of time-shifting is unprecedented: DA and MBB each increasing audience by 50% in week after airing.

A lot of people in the UK seem to watch via catch up these days ie. a few days after the show was broadcast.

weadick

I'm surprised one of the UK channels isn't showing it. I'm starting to get the opinion that we actually have a far more balanced view of the relationship between Britain and Ireland than they do. In the Sunday Times this week there was a scathing mention of the Easter Rising in one of the supplements. The term 'stab in the back' was used and the 'Ireland creation myth' whatever that means. There was an equally dismissive mention of DeValera in the same paper a few weeks back. I think this is rather typical of the British view of, not just 1916, but the entire Irish struggle for independence. That is, the few English people these days who are even aware that there was such a thing, most of them think Dublin is just as British as Dudley.

Then again, I suppose it says a lot that these uppity English papers are actually far more popular in Ireland than any Irish ones are!

qweerty

weadick wrote: »

I'm surprised one of the UK channels isn't showing it. I'm starting to get the opinion that we actually have a far more balanced view of the relationship between Britain and Ireland than they do. In the Sunday Times this week there was a scathing mention of the Easter Rising in one of the supplements. The term 'stab in the back' was used and the 'Ireland creation myth' whatever that means. There was an equally dismissive mention of DeValera in the same paper a few weeks back. I think this is rather typical of the British view of, not just 1916, but the entire Irish struggle for independence. That is, the few English people these days who are even aware that there was such a thing, most of them think Dublin is just as British as Dudley.

Then again, I suppose it says a lot that these uppity English papers are actually far more popular in Ireland than any Irish ones are!

Why would the UK channels show it?!

You're just as likely to see Ruth Dudley Edwards in the Sunday Independent dismissing de Velera.

Truth is, most Brits don't care. Some are ashamed of it, but most just ignore it like they ignore the rest of the Empire's misdeeds.

As for popularity of UK broadsheets, the dailies have a combined circulation of about 10k (versus about 220k) and the Sunday Times has a Dublin editor and staff and just uses Londkm content to pad it out.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

British people learn their history from their point of view. As we all do. What we learned in primary school about Irish/English relations was pretty one sided. Most countries whitewash their history. It's annoying, to a degree, but it's not surprising.

In regard to 1916 it probably didn't even register for most people in Britain at the time because they were in the middle of WW1 and that's what's occupied that period of time in their history books ever since.

weadick

qweerty wrote: »

Why would the UK channels show it?!

You're just as likely to see Ruth Dudley Edwards in the Sunday Independent dismissing de Velera.

Truth is, most Brits don't care. Some are ashamed of it, but most just ignore it like they ignore the rest of the Empire's misdeeds.

As for popularity of UK broadsheets, the dailies have a combined circulation of about 10k (versus about 220k) and the Sunday Times has a Dublin editor and staff and just uses Londkm content to pad it out.

Well Bloody Sunday was made by Channel 4 and was shown there before here. Likewise Rebel Heart and the BBC. When you consider that Channel 5 bought Love Hate (massively overrated) and Channel 4 used to show Glenroe and the Late Late then you would think that a lavishly produced drama set in the UK in the early 20th century would have some appeal even to one of the smaller stations.

What I was referring to with regard the papers is the irony that red top rags that used to be renknowned for having an anti-Irish bias in the 80's and 90's are now massively popular here. Given that many of those involved in the Rising were prominent cultural nationalists it just goes to show what an absolute utter failure the 'revolution' was.

crushproof

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

British people learn their history from their point of view. As we all do. What we learned in primary school about Irish/English relations was pretty one sided. Most countries whitewash their history. It's annoying, to a degree, but it's not surprising.

In regard to 1916 it probably didn't even register for most people in Britain at the time because they were in the middle of WW1 and that's what's occupied that period of time in their history books ever since.

Say 1916 to anyone from the UK and I reckon only 5% who know what you're talking about. Considering so many don't even realise Ireland is an independent state I really don't think many would be interested in seeing a historical drama based around events they didn't even know had happened. Some may this this is a broad sweeping statement but having lived in many parts of the UK I've come across many people from many walks of life who are ignorant of the Irish struggles.

However, some the most slamming (some may say anti Brit) productions have been funded by British sources, let's not forget that the Wind That Shakes the Barley was directed by a Brit and the two Bloody Sunday movies were aired on UK TV.

Oh, and on topic. I saw the ad for next weeks episode. From the small bits of gunfire it looks like they've done a good job battlescene wise.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

crushproof wrote: »

However, some the most slamming (some may say anti Brit) productions have been funded by British sources, let's not forget that the Wind That Shakes the Barley was directed by a Brit and the two Bloody Sunday movies were aired on UK TV.

The Wind That Shakes The Barley was more about the Civil War and the divide between family and friends. Yes, they showed the English in a poor light but the Irish didn't come out of it looking any better.

Strazdas

weadick wrote: »

Well Bloody Sunday was made by Channel 4 and was shown there before here. Likewise Rebel Heart and the BBC. When you consider that Channel 5 bought Love Hate (massively overrated) and Channel 4 used to show Glenroe and the Late Late then you would think that a lavishly produced drama set in the UK in the early 20th century would have some appeal even to one of the smaller stations.

What I was referring to with regard the papers is the irony that red top rags that used to be renknowned for having an anti-Irish bias in the 80's and 90's are now massively popular here. Given that many of those involved in the Rising were prominent cultural nationalists it just goes to show what an absolute utter failure the 'revolution' was.

I think Rebellion would be more than good enough to be shown on the BBC or ITV, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them picks it up.

Martypants1

I am fascinated. Absolutely fascinated. I am living in Dublin being from the west. I used to look around Dublin and find it mad that it was ruled by the British only 100 years a go. All these rising programs and articles drive the fascination even more. It's crazy to think there were people who thought like this and the tensions that were there only 100 years ago. Just looking at some of the streets and thinking of who walked along it relatively recently. It's a bit surreal and they really should teach this more/better in secondary school.

There's so much I don't know how it all came to be and the way life was lived around that time. Incredible. Quite surreal tbh.

qweerty

Reading the transcript of the first episode, I realise the script is very dense, particularly during the scene when Harry and someone else meets Elizabeth's (seeming) husband-to-be on his return.

Also, didn't realise that the three singers at the beginning become the three protagonists. I see now that an attempt was made to show that they are close friends, but I think that could have been emphasised more.

The Rape of Lucretia

Martypants1 wrote: »

I am fascinated. Absolutely fascinated. I am living in Dublin being from the west. I used to look around Dublin and find it mad that it was ruled by the British only 100 years a go.

Thats a curious and interesting perspective on it.
Yet one that does seem to have pervaded much of the national consiousness (both those from the west, and those from Dublin.

Ruled by the British ?
The Irish were part of the ruling of the United Kingdom including the 32 counties of Ireland.

This feeling of being ruled by an external, other, 'British', was a distinctly minority and misguided one, latched on to by all manner of misfits and oddballs as the cause of any grievance or gripe under the sun,
Yet promoted ever since in a 100 years of spin that sought to justify the rebellion, fracture of the country, hardships, and myriad ills that resulted.
The series, with the limitations of television drama admittedly, also falls into this trap, presenting a very skewed, indeed inaccurate, image of the wider population beyond the little band of play soldiers and dreamers.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

qweerty wrote: »

Reading the transcript of the first episode, I realise the script is very dense, particularly during the scene when Harry and someone else meets Elizabeth's (seeming) husband-to-be on his return.

Also, didn't realise that the three singers at the beginning become the three protagonists. I see now that an attempt was made to show that they are close friends, but I think that could have been emphasised more.

How did you not realise it was them? It shows them without the stage makeup imidiately after upstairs in the theatre and everyone is toasting their performance.

qweerty

@Martypants loads and loads of books to quench your interest!

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Thats a curious and interesting perspective on it.
Yet one that does seem to have pervaded much of the national consiousness (both those from the west, and those from Dublin.

Ruled by the British ?
The Irish were part of the ruling of the United Kingdom including the 32 counties of Ireland.

This feeling of being ruled by an external, other, 'British', was a distinctly minority and misguided one, latched on to by all manner of misfits and oddballs as the cause of any grievance or gripe under the sun,
Yet promoted ever since in a 100 years of spin that sought to justify the rebellion, fracture of the country...

I agree. It's so deeply ingrained that even those who have misgivings about the Rising don't recognise the distinction.

However, I thought the programme did well in presenting that. There were the upper-class Home Rule-ers and the working class soldier ("I was fighting for King and Country") who oppose anti-British sentiment.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

How did you not realise it was them? It shows them without the stage makeup imidiately after upstairs in the theatre and everyone is toasting their performance.

I'm not sure! Partly because we were bombarded with characters, I guess. But also because it would have been unusual, I think, for upper class young ladies (ie not children) to perform like that, so that sort of threw me: I thought they were merely "the entertainment."

TCDStudent1

qweerty wrote: »

Reading the transcript

Also, didn't realise that the three singers at the beginning become the three protagonists. I see now that an attempt was made to show that they are close friends, but I think that could have been emphasised more.

It seemed obvious to me that they were close friends. We see them perform together at the start. We see Mary and May argue about May's affair. We see May visit Elizabeth and Elizabeth hugging her and being delighted to see her. And they share an intimate conversation that would usually only occur between good friends.

This is one thing that Rebellion does well. It shows that people from different backgrounds co-existed and their paths in life sometimes crossed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

qweerty wrote: »

I'm not sure! Partly because we were bombarded with characters, I guess. But also because it would have been unusual, I think, for upper class young ladies (ie not children) to perform like that, so that sort of threw me: I thought they were merely "the entertainment."

There were a lot of characters alright. Not sure who all the male ones were myself.
The women were performing in the theatre at the start, not just at home for giggles. I guess establishing a preexisting friendship in a few scenes before skipping 2 years wasn't the easiest task.

qweerty

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It seemed obvious to me that they were close friends. We see them perform together at the start. We see Mary and May argue about May's affair. We see May visit Elizabeth and Elizabeth hugging her and being delighted to see her. And they share an intimate conversation that would usually only occur between good friends.

This is one thing that Rebellion does well. It shows that people from different backgrounds co-existed and their paths in life sometimes crossed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

There were a lot of characters alright. Not sure who all the male ones were myself.
The women were performing in the theatre at the start, not just at home for giggles. I guess establishing a preexisting friendship in a few scenes before skipping 2 years wasn't the easiest task.

Yeah, maybe it was a bad miss on my part. I did just about manage to keep track of the guys, as it happens! @TCDStudent, I presume you mean Frances, not Mary. I mistook her for being May's sister

Strazdas

qweerty wrote: »

I agree. It's so deeply ingrained that even those who have misgivings about the Rising don't recognise the distinction.

However, I thought the programme did well in presenting that. There were the upper-class Home Rule-ers and the working class soldier ("I was fighting for King and Country") who oppose anti-British sentiment.

It also shows that the rebels were on the fringes of society and a minority. When the red haired girl is handing out leaflets at the docks against Irish involvement in the War, she is regarded as a borderline nutter by the returning soldiers and again when we see May talking to the Dublin policeman and a group of Irish Volunteers march past, the two of them practically laugh at them as if they are rather ridiculous and not to be taken seriously.

TCDStudent1

qweerty wrote: »

Yeah, maybe it was a bad miss on my part. I did just about manage to keep track of the guys, as it happens! @TCDStudent, I presume you mean Frances, not Mary. I mistook her for being May's sister

Yeah, my mistake - Frances. I think it mentioned she was from Galway. Definitely said may was from Cork.

qweerty

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Yeah, my mistake - Frances. I think it mentioned she was from Galway. Definitely said may was from Cork.

Yeah, Frances being from Galway is given in the conversation after the performance (btw, one of my favourite lines was the delivery of "props for the performance from the director, Mr Connolly"), which also helped throw me, because it doesn't seem like a conversation you'd have with a close friend in that setting. Also, as I suggested before, Frances sounded like a big sister when chiding May for her filmg with Hammond. (So many names!!!)