Strange idle noise, not clutch...

rat_race

Hi...

Bike is Tiger 800 2013.

Bike is making loud-ish scraping-style noise when idling, it can have a slight whine. It's not in sync with the RPMs from what I can hear. Doesn't make a difference if clutch is in or out, or what gear I'm in (when the clutch is pulled in). Can't hear it when bike is moving and non-idling.

Sounds to me like it's on the left side, near the alternator/gearbox. Bike runs fine when you give it some throttle.

It gives off a vibration when idle, which is noticeable through the footpeg, and wasn't there before.

I have noticed random/strange idle noises before, and I know it's characteristic of the engine, but this is different and louder...and doesn't go away when the bike is warmed up.

28,000km, serviced properly...not abused.

Any ideas?


Cheers!

Max Headroom

Video maybe..??

rat_race

Here's a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ6XUGjWlwo&feature=youtu.be

Hard to hear the sound in the video, and the bike had been idling for 15 mins to warm up, so it's not too bad -- but you can hear it. Whiney/scrapey sound.

It should be sounding more like this (some other guy's video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE8BfKT20xM

thelawman

can definitely hear it in your video, but unfortunately I've no idea what's up with it, maybe post it on the triumph uk forum, somebody should know

zubair

It might be worth pointing out that in the second vid the bike is in gear and that could make a difference to the sound.

Do an oil change and the usual checks but even a mechanic couldn't tell you with out opening it up and even then it's still just a noise that doesn't seem to impact performance (if it ain't broke...).

Don't forget bikes are noisy anyway, I'm sure all of my bikes made lots of different noises at some stage that caused me concern but never became an issue.

Max Headroom

Does the starter motor disengage when its started..??.sounds whiney/bearingy imo

two wheels good

Fuel pump? Other suggestions: water pump - but that's on the side; rotor touching stator - but that would be rpm dependent; gearbox - try in gear with clutch in.

Placing a gloved hand might muffle the sound and help locate it. Or that old trick of hlding a large screwdiver with solid handle to the casing to help amplify noise and locate it. (Never quite convinced by that one myself)

rat_race

Thanks for the replies. In hindsight, you can also hear it @ low speeds/RPMs...(and feel it in the left foot peg, just about)

Nothing to do with being in gear, our of gear, clutch in or clutch out, it would seem -- tried them all.

That's what sort of makes me think it could be related to the alternator or whatever.

"Does the starter motor disengage when its started..??.sounds whiney/bearingy imo" -- Nothing feels any different regarding the starter motor, so I presume it's okay.

CJhaughey

rat_race wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. In hindsight, you can also hear it @ low speeds/RPMs...(and feel it in the left foot peg, just about)

Nothing to do with being in gear, our of gear, clutch in or clutch out, it would seem -- tried them all.

That's what sort of makes me think it could be related to the alternator or whatever.

"Does the starter motor disengage when its started..??.sounds whiney/bearingy imo" -- Nothing feels any different regarding the starter motor, so I presume it's okay.

Any sign of metal fragments in the oil? maybe stick a magnet down the hole and see what comes out?

rat_race

Can't see any in the sight glass anyway...

Can't really get a magnet down there either, there's a bit of metal blocking it...

Do you think the noise is worrying CJ?

rat_race

I did just do about 3000km in Morocco (hard going, some off road)...pushed the bike more than ever before. But still didn't abuse it...probably nowhere near how a lot of people ride their bikes every day!

If it was metal, what does that mean? Just normal wear that an oil change might fix???

rat_race

rat_race wrote: »

If it was metal, what does that mean? Just normal wear that an oil change might fix???

Dumb question really...

But I do wonder if it's the sudden temp. drop, 10W50 oil, + normal engine wear.

I'll take the oil filter off soon, cut it open, and see if I can see shrapnel Hope not...

CJhaughey

rat_race wrote: »

Dumb question really...

But I do wonder if it's the sudden temp. drop, 10W50 oil, + normal engine wear.

I'll take the oil filter off soon, cut it open, and see if I can see shrapnel Hope not...

Stick one of those small powerful magnets on the outside of the filter.
When you cut it open, see if its caught anything on the outside of the housing.
Doesn't sound that bad to me.

stewygriffin

Cam chain tensioner perhaps?

It would be more noticable on cold start if it were the cam chain tensioner.

rat_race

CJhaughey wrote: »

Stick one of those small powerful magnets on the outside of the filter.
When you cut it open, see if its caught anything on the outside of the housing.
Doesn't sound that bad to me.

Hi CJ -- haven't had a chance to look into this yet.

I should have mentioned that I got a new chain/sprockets put on just a few days before. Didn't notice anything the first time I was on the bike, but started noticing this the second and third time (haven't been out since, kinda avoiding the problem ).

Wondering if the front sprocket removal / installation could have fecked something up in the gearbox? The fact that I can pull the clutch in and still hear the noise, makes me think probably not. However, if the mechanic left the bike in gear in order to remove/install it (so it wouldn't keep spinning), could that cause issues further up in the engine from the force of an impact wrench or something?

Wossack

do they an hydraulic cam chain tensioner?

I believe with enough counter torque to the engine, you can unload the cam chain tension enough for the tensioner to activate and wind a 'click' tighter. This would make it too tight under normal running conditions

however, tensioner is right side of the engine, and you've said the issue feels to be from the left - so might be a bum steer

listermint

rat_race wrote: »

Hi CJ -- haven't had a chance to look into this yet.

I should have mentioned that I got a new chain/sprockets put on just a few days before. Didn't notice anything the first time I was on the bike, but started noticing this the second and third time (haven't been out since, kinda avoiding the problem ).

Wondering if the front sprocket removal / installation could have fecked something up in the gearbox? The fact that I can pull the clutch in and still hear the noise, makes me think probably not. However, if the mechanic left the bike in gear in order to remove/install it (so it wouldn't keep spinning), could that cause issues further up in the engine from the force of an impact wrench or something?

You got work done and then noises started to occur.


Bring it back to the mechanic. We can't solve it here it will need to be looked at again.

rat_race

listermint wrote: »

You got work done and then noises started to occur.


Bring it back to the mechanic. We can't solve it here it will need to be looked at again.

I was also just driving off road for two weeks...plus, I like to solve things myself.

rat_race

Wossack wrote: »

do they an hydraulic cam chain tensioner?

I believe with enough counter torque to the engine, you can unload the cam chain tension enough for the tensioner to activate and wind a 'click' tighter. This would make it too tight under normal running conditions

however, tensioner is right side of the engine, and you've said the issue feels to be from the left - so might be a bum steer

Good thinking. Maybe I'll take it out and reset it!

I don't know what they used for the sprocket. I've asked, waiting on a response...

I had my ear right down on the alternator today and you can really hear/feel it. I really think it's coming from in there...

I'm going to take it apart soon and see if I can spot anything. I did a lot of off road and stuff, in warm temperatures...then came back to Ireland to the cold and noticed it. Could have loosened a bolt or something and it's manifesting now.

listermint

rat_race wrote: »

I was also just driving off road for two weeks...plus, I like to solve things myself.

I like to solve things myself too, But youve paid for work to be done and now there is a noise coming out of it.

rat_race

listermint wrote: »

I like to solve things myself too, But youve paid for work to be done and now there is a noise coming out of it.

My intuition tells me it's completely unrelated...but I will if I cannot solve myself.

rat_race

Well, I fixed it!

I took the alternator/stator cover off. It was, as always, 400 times harder than I expected. Took me hours to get it off to be honest.

The stator has three bolts...two of them were very tight, but one was much looser than the others (but still much more than finger tight!). I tightened that up (no torque specs in the service manual), and put her all back together, and the sound is now gone!

Before this, I had at one point partially removed the cover, and then tightened it back up again, just to see if the noise would disappear (and because I felt like giving up!). But it came back... I was bit more agrgessive in removing the cover and eventually got it off.

So it seems to me like it was this bolt...amazing how much noise/vibration it could cause. Bike sounds like new again.

Pics attached.

QUESTION: see the brown bits on stator? Is this anything to worry about? Looks structurally fine when I looked at it up close.


20151220_150852.jpg

20151220_150859.jpg

20151220_152115.jpg

Thanks all for the input.

stewygriffin

rat_race wrote: »

Well, I fixed it!

I took the alternator/stator cover off. It was, as always, 400 times harder than I expected. Took me hours to get it off to be honest.

The stator has three bolts...two of them were very tight, but one was much looser than the others (but still much more than finger tight!). I tightened that up (no torque specs in the service manual), and put her all back together, and the sound is now gone!

Before this, I had at one point partially removed the cover, and then tightened it back up again, just to see if the noise would disappear (and because I felt like giving up!). But it came back... I was bit more agrgessive in removing the cover and eventually got it off.

So it seems to me like it was this bolt...amazing how much noise/vibration it could cause. Bike sounds like new again.

Pics attached.

QUESTION: see the brown bits on stator? Is this anything to worry about? Looks structurally fine when I looked at it up close.


20151220_150852.jpg

20151220_150859.jpg

20151220_152115.jpg

Thanks all for the input.

Congratts on fixing it yourself.:)

No you can spend the money you saved on a slab of dutch gold or a nice meal for the missus and yourself.:pac:

rat_race

stewygriffin wrote: »

Congratts on fixing it yourself.:)

No you can spend the money you saved on a slab of dutch gold or a nice meal for the missus and yourself.:pac:

Thanks. Nice when stuff goes right for a change.

two wheels good

Nice one! Any signs of scoring on the rotor or stator?
The coil looks a bit burnt but probably only because it's at the top with less oil flow. For peace of mind maybe check the AC output on each phase of the stator.

rat_race

two wheels good wrote: »

Nice one! Any signs of scoring on the rotor or stator?
The coil looks a bit burnt but probably only because it's at the top with less oil flow. For peace of mind maybe check the AC output on each phase of the stator.

No scoring that I saw. I don't think anything was out of place to that degree...the "loose" bolt was one of three keeping the stator in place, and it really wasn't that loose at all. You wouldn't be able to unscrew it by hand, for example. But it was looser than the others by a good bit. So I think it was just a very minor vibration causing the noises rather than friction, etc...

Regarding testing the stator, I may do that next time I open it up...but for now I'll wait until there's a problem!

two wheels good

rat_race wrote: »

No scoring that I saw. I don't think anything was out of place to that degree...the "loose" bolt was one of three keeping the stator in place, and it really wasn't that loose at all. You wouldn't be able to unscrew it by hand, for example. But it was looser than the others by a good bit. So I think it was just a very minor vibration causing the noises rather than friction, etc...

Regarding testing the stator, I may do that next time I open it up...but for now I'll wait until there's a problem!

I wasn't thinking of opening her up again. Sounds like a chore, and it doesn't look serious enough - to my inexpert eye. I was thinking check the output at the Regulator connector if you have a multimeter. But I don't think it's essential.

rat_race

two wheels good wrote: »

I wasn't thinking of opening her up again. Sounds like a chore, and it doesn't look serious enough - to my inexpert eye. I was thinking check the output at the Regulator connector if you have a multimeter. But I don't think it's essential.

Yeah, I was thinking that after... thanks for the tip

zubair

So glad you fixed it because I was getting sick of this thread, ah no, just messing, great feeling, especially when it was going on so long and when you know there's nothing wrong with the bike. Well done.