LinkedFinance - new website

sceach16

Linked T&C to borrowers
"Once the Loan Request is funded to at least 90% of the requested value by Active Bids, you will have 3 days in which to irrevocably accept those Bids and agree the Loan Contract by following the electronic signature instructions on Linked Finance. You are under no obligation to enter into a Loan Contract. No interest will begin to accrue on the Loan unless and until you have signed the Loan Contract. If you fail to sign the Loan Contract within the five day signing period, your Loan Contract will be cancelled, and any Bids that funded that Loan Contract will be void. Once you sign the Loan Contract you cannot withdraw from it or cancel it for any reason."

Since Linked know within three (3) days, why are they waiting until seven (7) days to return bidders money.

Who benefits from this money during this time? Is it Linked?

tadcan

Number 15 says that the unlent funds are kept with rabo and AIB in segregated accounts. So what happens to the money when you make a bid. Does it stay in the account and only get moved when if the loan is accepted. Or is the money moved to a different account. When LF say your money has been returned to you, does that just mean they move the funds from bid to available cash.
https://www.linkedfinance.com/faq

sceach16

tadcan wrote: »

Number 15 says that the unlent funds are kept with rabo and AIB in segregated accounts. So what happens to the money when you make a bid. Does it stay in the account and only get moved when if the loan is accepted. Or is the money moved to a different account. When LF say your money has been returned to you, does that just mean they move the funds from bid to available cash.
https://www.linkedfinance.com/faq

My opinion..There are two elements to this.First, When I lodge money to my Linked account, it is held by Rabo or AIB. Linked manage it (and get any interest payable on it..I suspect). It is however safe as the account is distinct from Linked if Linked were to go west ( and there is no suggestion of this).

Second,When I bid, whether the money is at risk (in the same way as it is when the loan is accepted) or who owns it is not clear to me. What is certain is that while bid, I do not get a return on it and cannot access these funds. when the bid is returned , it goes to available cash as per the first above.

In my view, the terms and conditions have a formal status while the FAQ do not...they are informational.

spudwould

sceach16 wrote: »

My opinion..There are two elements to this.First, When I lodge money to my Linked account, it is held by Rabo or AIB. Linked manage it (and get any interest payable on it..I suspect). It is however safe as the account is distinct from Linked if Linked were to go west ( and there is no suggestion of this).

Second,When I bid, whether the money is at risk (in the same way as it is when the loan is accepted) or who owns it is not clear to me. What is certain is that while bid, I do not get a return on it and cannot access these funds. when the bid is returned , it goes to available cash as per the first above.

In my view, the terms and conditions have a formal status while the FAQ do not...they are informational.

I was informed back in Feb that a company that was late in payments, made a payment and because it was not enough to cover a full months repayments LF would "Hold" this money until a such time that the company make the full payment!
Now I would have thought that the part payment that was made should be gave back to the investors ... as it could then be put to good use and reinvested and not lingering in LFs. hmmmm

scheister

How long do linkedfinance get the money before passing it onto us. I only asked as i noticed at the weekend i had a payment due on saturday so assumed it would go in today as its the next banking day. But it went in saturday. This means linked finance had the money ahead of the day but hold back till payment date to give to you

tadcan

I asked about this and was told since payments that fall on the weekend or if a month doesn't have a 30th/31st like when the loan was accepted, payments can fall ahead or before that date.

m320325

scheister wrote: »

How long do linkedfinance get the money before passing it onto us. I only asked as i noticed at the weekend i had a payment due on saturday so assumed it would go in today as its the next banking day. But it went in saturday. This means linked finance had the money ahead of the day but hold back till payment date to give to you

I've always get the Saturday payment on a Friday morning so on 'Recent Activity' it will appear like this at 11am Friday:

Monthly repayment of €x.xx by ABC 13 hours
[the no of hours reduces as you get closer to midnight]

Then if you look at recent activity on Saturday 8am it will appear as:

Monthly repayment of €x.xx by ABC 8 hours ago even though it was added to my available cash before this

I don't see any problem with this way, picking a point each day and processing payments, as they can't be checking the bank account for more payments during the day

Welruc

Anyone able to do the maths on this: what would €100 return after three years at 12%.

Now i know the return on the original investment but what about if all returns from the original investment are re invested again at 12%? Anyone got a formula for calculating this?

tadcan

They are calculations a few pages back in the thread with estimates for returns. Since LF is changing to a fixed interest model shortly, it would be better to look at the fixed rate calculations.

sceach16

deuceswild wrote: »

Anyone able to do the maths on this: what would €100 return after three years at 12%.

Now i know the return on the original investment but what about if all returns from the original investment are re invested again at 12%? Anyone got a formula for calculating this?

All rates of return calculations are based on the assumption that any repayments are invested at the same rate. This is a practical requirement as otherwise a rate of return (ROR) is virtually impossible to calculate.

So after 3 years, U would get 100 back plus 12% pa. Less linked charge 1.2% Pa less tax etc on 10.8% leaving a net return of 5.4% Pa!

In cash flow terms , U would get less. This is because cash flow does not presume reinvestment.

m320325

deuceswild wrote: »

Anyone able to do the maths on this: what would €100 return after three years at 12%.

Now i know the return on the original investment but what about if all returns from the original investment are re invested again at 12%? Anyone got a formula for calculating this?

Do you mean your total investment is 100? The percentages will be very different comparing 100 against a higher amount. If you lend 100, you have to wait 16 months until you can lend to a 2nd borrower (as minimum amount you can lend is 50), or should I assume theres no minimum loan amount just for calculating the return?

edit: ignore my post, sceach's answer above is correct

sceach16

Just asked this question !

"have you filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application to be a Borrower? "

Response "This is listed as a Y category business. As per our FAQs we define Y category as follows: "Companies in this group are less than two years old. Although we credit check them to a high standard, they do not have the same level of business experience as more established companies."

This is their second loan!

"if you are a company, you must be registered with Companies Registration Office (the "CRO"), you must have filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application to be a Borrower"

The role of Linked Finance
" Our role is to facilitate prospective Borrowers and Lenders in negotiating, concluding and completing Loans via Linked Finance in accordance with the terms of this Agreement."

This loan does not meet Linked requirements......

irish_goat

Wouldn't have any worry about the White Hag loan. Their beer is good and in high demand in both Ireland and abroad. Bad form if it doesn't meet the criteria though.

Juror5

Pretty new to all this, but I thought if something is listed as Y on the site then it means they are younger than 2 years, but are credit worthy.

There have been a few in the past already, wasn't O Brother listed as Y?

I'm pretty sure that makes it ok with LF's requirements.

manafana

irish_goat wrote: »

Wouldn't have any worry about the White Hag loan. Their beer is good and in high demand in both Ireland and abroad. Bad form if it doesn't meet the criteria though.

great beer range and really growing, spoke too one guys they are great, so i'd cut them a little slack, but always wonder why come back for more loans so soon

sceach16

irish_goat wrote: »

Wouldn't have any worry about the White Hag loan. Their beer is good and in high demand in both Ireland and abroad. Bad form if it doesn't meet the criteria though.

I enthusiastically support their beer but this is a company that has lost close to 250,000 euro in less than 2 years trading. It is still in my view a start up rather than an established business. It does not meet Linked criteria and therefore should not be on the site.

sceach16

Juror5 wrote: »

Pretty new to all this, but I thought if something is listed as Y on the site then it means they are younger than 2 years, but are credit worthy.

There have been a few in the past already, wasn't O Brother listed as Y?

I'm pretty sure that makes it ok with LF's requirements.

No . This is the requirement

if you are a company, you must be registered with Companies Registration Office (the "CRO"), you must have filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application to be a Borrower and at least 50% of your directors must be permanent residents of Ireland;

It has not!

m320325

sceach16 wrote: »

No . This is the requirement

if you are a company, you must be registered with Companies Registration Office (the "CRO"), you must have filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application to be a Borrower and at least 50% of your directors must be permanent residents of Ireland;

It has not!

I presume its just that the rules have changed but Linkedfinance haven't updated their terms to reflect this

eg
"'Y' grade loans signify a business that has been trading for less than 12 months and as such represents a higher level of risk."

So they need to edit that point (you must have filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application) in their T&C to say it doesn't apply to Y grade loans and also it doesn't apply to cases where a Sore Trader become a Limited Company.


Otherwise it would be impossible to have Y grade loans

sceach16

m320325 wrote: »

I presume its just that the rules have changed but Linkedfinance haven't updated their terms to reflect this

eg
"'Y' grade loans signify a business that has been trading for less than 12 months and as such represents a higher level of risk."

So they need to edit that point (you must have filed accounts at the CRO for at least the two consecutive years immediately preceding your application) in their T&C to say it doesn't apply to Y grade loans and also it doesn't apply to cases where a Sore Trader become a Limited Company.

They have not changed their terms and conditions ! They simply ignore them. These terms are the legal basis for loans for both borrowers and lenders. A sole trader can be a Y (or anything else in the alphabet) but a company must meet the terms and conditions of 2 years accounts! This is the legal basis on which Linked operate and while they can be changed, they cannot be changed retrospectively.

m320325

sceach16 wrote: »

They have not changed their terms and conditions ! They simply ignore them. These terms are the legal basis for loans for both borrowers and lenders. A sole trader can be a Y (or anything else in the alphabet) but a company must meet the terms and conditions of 2 years accounts! This is the legal basis on which Linked operate and while they can be changed, they cannot be changed retrospectively.

Actually i agree with you, they've had many weeks to update their TERMS since you first brought this to their attention. I just think the borrowers may think we have something against them, as they don't know this is an ongoing problem with Linkedfinance

tadcan

Just got this email from LF. After the text they go onto explain the new autobid system which is based on risk.

As you know, we've been working on making a move to graded, fixed-rate loans across the board.Things have been progressing well and I am delighted to inform you that we expect to see the first of these new loans on the marketplace on August 9th.
Our final auction loan for White Hag has been launched. Now that our last auction loan is live, we have completely redesigned the Autobid function to suit the new grading system and fixed-rate model.The old Autobid system has been taken offline and existing Autobids will no longer work.
With the new Autobid tool, the time at which you set up your rules will determine the order in which Autobids are accepted into loans. As such, time is of the essence.
I'd highly recommend that you go and set-up your Autobids right now.

Squall Leonhart

Yeah I got it too, seems an odd way of doing things maybe.

If for example it's a grade A loan for 10,000 over 12 months, it has the potential to make it impossible for new investors to actually get a bid in as it'll automatically be filled by existing investors.

...And the rich get richer!

TheSheriff

A ridiculous move by linked IMO

Talk about alienating investors

sceach16

I have just re read the various emails from the new CEO. I did not find any information on the basis for the proposed ratings. Anybody who sets up an autobid based on these emails should also donate to Donal Trump on the basis that he will fix it !:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

spudwould

sceach16 wrote: »

They have not changed their terms and conditions ! They simply ignore them. These terms are the legal basis for loans for both borrowers and lenders. A sole trader can be a Y (or anything else in the alphabet) but a company must meet the terms and conditions of 2 years accounts! This is the legal basis on which Linked operate and while they can be changed, they cannot be changed retrospectively.

When a financial company starts to break the rules and BLATANTLY tell lies .. I think it is time to have a good hard look at the company and make informative decisions.
What I see is LF breaking their own rules and then giving stupid excuses that does not even address the issue .. this to me is a RED FLAG!

I was one of the first investors and welcomed this platform as it not only seemed to work .. IT DID WORK!
Friends were skeptical .. and ribbed me for entering a ponzi scheme .. took me ages to convince them otherwise ... few invested .. and n ow I am 360 advising them to GET OUT!
Like everything else... investors was the kings of the site until it gets too big for its boots .. and now treated like "Hey! Don't mind the rules .. THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK.. if you don't like it" .. well you know the rest.
I have sent my documents to LF and now in the process of taking my investments and going elsewhere.

LF does work .. if you want to give unsecured loans to companies that do not have to provide books(sole traders), provide any answers to investors Q's and in one case .. blatently LIE about the size of the company and what they supply, all for the return of less than 2% annual. BIG thumbs up!
BAD Debts have risen ... expediently for me .. but LF say that they have NONE!
As the Rons said .. "Its goodbye from me" :P:D

sceach16

I have lost any confidence I had in Linked.

m320325

sceach16 wrote: »

I have lost any confidence I had in Linked.

I saw their latest replies to you, then seem to avoid answering the question and admitting they made a mistake

They also said "We are currently reviewing our terms of service. If there are changes required they will be included in the next update".

I would have expected after so many weeks they would now acknowledge the TERMS need changing ASAP otherwise they should explain how these LOANS are still valid with the current terms

sceach16

m320325 wrote: »

I saw their latest replies to you, then seem to avoid answering the question and admitting they made a mistake

They also said "We are currently reviewing our terms of service. If there are changes required they will be included in the next update".

I would have expected after so many weeks they would now acknowledge the TERMS need changing ASAP otherwise they should explain how these LOANS are still valid with the current terms

They cannot explain how the loans meet the terms and conditions because they do not meet them. Linked have a very clear attitude.....they do not bother with mere details like operating within their legal framework. As soon as this sector is regulated, linked will have a lot of questions to answer.

Squall Leonhart

Only 3 live loans at present.

Today is the day the new fixed rate graded loans are due to go live. I wonder how many will go up and what kind of grade they'll be given. Not sure about loan lengths, I'd imagine a lot more 12 month loans though, but can see majority of loans with A or B grading.

cruhoortwunk

I'll be using my 4 free annual loans to withdraw all I can, Linked is dead to me.
Just glad I got in a few investments before they went to pot completely