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garrettod wrote: »

Eh,

Okay, I think we got the message

Something about ready steady build...? Think it was a recommendation.

garrettod

CeilingFly wrote: »

Its that type of revenge posting that would stop many businesses from looking at lf for a loan.

Maybe just loan numbers and initials should be used?

Loan 4662 RSB

It was a D rated loan. So risky from day 1.

And I suspect that the poster is an unpaid contractor rather than a lf lender.

There's two sides to this point, to be fair.....

On the one hand, reputation and past track record are important considerations for lenders, it's vital that all available information is taken into consideration when a lender is considering advancing a loan, be it in a bank or via a P2P website.

Obviously, on the other hand, there's the risk that someone will spread a fake story on the internet, or completely go overboard when they do post something that has a negative impact on the reputation of the borrower.

We can't rely 100% on the accuracy of information provided to LF, and in turn by LF (given the potential for errors), nor can we rely 100% on the accuracy of other information that we see elsewhere on the internet regarding Borrowers; but ultimately I'd rather have all of it and then make up my own mind. There is no way in hell, I'd ever be happy to lend to a "mystery" borrower


.

1huge1

Sad to see, hopefully they will figure something out.

Got this reply from Linkedfinance

The borrower has made contact with Linked Finance today to advise the company is in a position where it cannot meet its debts and so has been declared insolvent and is in the process of appointing a liquidator . Linked Finance will publish all updates regarding this insolvency after the creditors meeting which has not yet been confirmed. We remain in conversations with this borrower regarding his personal financial situation as per the guarantee securing this loan agreement however the borrower is not yet in a position to advise or comment on same.

That was 2 weeks ago.

Edit: The original post I was replying to seems to have disappeared, it was referring to "West Cork Pies" having gone into liquidation.

CeilingFly

1huge1 wrote: »

Sad to see, hopefully they will figure something out.

Got this reply from Linkedfinance



That was 2 weeks ago.

Edit: The original post I was replying to seems to have disappeared, it was referring to "West Cork Pies" having gone into liquidation.

Apologies - i wanted to be sure of info. Sometimes there can be different company setups for manufacturing and distribution.

Here's the link
https://www.businessbarometer.ie/Risk-Management/Anam-Cara-Foods-Limited-559287


They worked hard and gave it their best, but the food business is notoriously difficult.

Cute Hoor

1huge1 wrote: »

Sad to see, hopefully they will figure something out.

Got this reply from Linkedfinance



That was 2 weeks ago.

Edit: The original post I was replying to seems to have disappeared, it was referring to "West Cork Pies" having gone into liquidation.

Always sad to see a business going belly-up, at least they tried, I suspect that their needs are now greater than the needs of the lenders who have lost their small few bob.

Rogermillaybig

i see a fair few borrowers got served today , good work

Wheety

Rogermillaybig wrote: »

i see a fair few borrowers got served today , good work

Farm Foods one of them anyway.

The only 2 of mine in default are food related businesses.

sceach16

Ratoga Safety "Hi Any update on this loan? Thanks"


Sent this email to Linked on Wednesday last.


Update today from Linked


"Active Recovery - We have received confirmation from our legal partners the guarantor pertaining to this Loan Agreement was served with proceedings yesterday . We expect an update on the borrowers intention to defend / appear regarding this case in the next 30 days and will update a lenders accordingly . "


Ratoga have at least one more loan on Linked...also in default. This company is in liquidation for some time.


There are other companies at the address including borrowers from Linked. There are also common directors among the companies.


While I am pleased to see some action, this case is the primary reason I gave up on Linked.

garrettod

sceach16 wrote: »

....

There are other companies at the address including borrowers from Linked. There are also common directors among the companies..

That is an example of the kind of information I would want LF to provide me with at the time that each borrower was looking to borrow.

I'm hoping that LF's new head of credit will have a positive impact, in terms of the quality of information being provided when loans are proposed - historically there's been quite a bit of sales / marketing type stuff, but not enough on other important issues such as management experience etc.

Cute Hoor

Definitely good news today, and it would appear to have had an immediate impact with Ratoga.

'Active Recovery - Our legal partners have received some communication from one of the guarantors pertaining to this loan agreement advising to liaise with his solicitor regarding his obligations . Our solicitors have written to the acting solicitor and hope to receive some response in the coming days prior to initiating proceedings . All updates regarding this case will be communicated to lenders as soon as possible .'

Does anybody know what the process is from here, I presume the legal partners will be going to court to get a judgement against the Farm Food guarantor, amount outstanding + interest + legal costs, and then sending in the sheriff to Dawson Street in a scene from 'Won't pay, we'll take it away'

lad6w

P2P and Witholding Tax blog on Linked site (https://blog.linkedfinance.com/) takes you to a Revenue guidance
here (https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-08/08-03-05.pdf) and then to a specific form ( https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/documents/form-r185.pdf) ; that borrowers would be required to complete for each lender for a P2P loan.
Anyone with more knowledge than me able to confirm if the "lender" is the P2P company ie Linked, or if details of each lender (ie "us") would need to be passed to every SME who takes out a loan? To me wording is ambiguous. If is every lender then this would kill P2P stone dead, as I do not want my details passed to potentially hundreds of borrowers and depend on their data protection capability. IF is only the P2P company then I don't see that is a big deal to administer for a borrower - and Linked could probably populate the form for them
For sure the witholding tax makes the tax treatment for lenders more complex.

Any thoughts?

(I remain withdrawing funds with no new investments, and a current status of 5 loans in default, 6 late by LF definition , and a further 2 that are behind on payments - versus approx 300 active loans)

garrettod

lad6w wrote: »

.....Any thoughts?...

My sense of this (right or wrong), is that it's referring to the P2P company, rather than us individually. I see us as "investors", who invest in a loan transaction through the P2P company, who in turn are the "lender" (they sign the loan documentation etc.).

It's not practical and as you say, and it may well kill off P2P, if peoples personal documentation was to be shared out with every borrowing entity.

Cute Hoor

I think this must be a record.
TileHaven have missed their first repayment!!!!

Rogermillaybig

Ah lads 😂

CeilingFly

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I think this must be a record.
TileHaven have missed their first repayment!!!!

Do they have two loans? 75k + 50k?

Cute Hoor

CeilingFly wrote: »

Do they have two loans? 75k + 50k?

Only saw the one for 50k.
LF had expected to post an update by the end of yesterday, but obviously haven't been able to get a meaningful response from TileHaven

Edit: Just saw this response from sceach16, looks like 3 loans, for pretty significant bucks
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104007491

Edit: This is actually their fifth loan
'Regular lenders will be familiar with TileHaven, as this is their fifth time to feature on the platform. They are fully up to date on all repayments for previous loans.'

CeilingFly

Possibly they are caught up in the Carillon / Sammon group issue? They stated they had won some school contracts.

garrettod

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I think this must be a record.
TileHaven have missed their first repayment!!!!

They have had quite a few loans in a relatively short space of time, which would typically raise an eyebrow.....

Why does a company with circa €2.37m revenue and inventory of €855k at year end 12/2017 need a loan to buy even more stock ?

I appreciate that a business like this needs a good selection of stock in it's showrooms, but that stock figure looks excessive to me (and makes me wonder if some of the stock held is obsolete and cannot be sold, but hasn't been written down / written off in the financial accounts).

We are told that demand has increased, and they want stock to meet this increased demand and new contracts - but if demand has increased, how come there isn't more cash coming in from sales given this appears to be predominantly retail business, or are all new sales on credit with not even sizeable deposits being handed over at time of order (which may be risky business) ?

https://www.linkedfinance.com/loan/2018/05/tilehaven

I also see that they have two locations in Cork and one in Antrim. I'd have thought that was an unusual place to expand to, for your first venture outside of Cork, not to mention it raises significant additional challenges for a relatively small business such as legal, taxation, currency, general management etc.

.

CeilingFly

garrettod wrote: »

Why does a company with circa €2.37m revenue and inventory of €855k at year end 12/2017 need a loan to buy even more stock ?

If I want a loan from AIB, in the absence of audited accounts, they will ask for a verified stock valuation from a third party stock control company. That is something LF need to look at especially for companies in the retail area.

In the tile business, stock levels should not be anywhere near as high as that stated as in a lot of situations the tiles are on display and ordered in for customers (a friend is a tile retailer and his stock holding is well under 100k)

The 855k figure would suggest about 6-7 months stock on hand, (assuming a 40% margin) so either its a funny figure or the business is not being managed properly.

The only other explanation is they are tile contractors as well as retailers and have to complete a job before being paid. - But would that not be listed as "work in progress"

kevinandrewz

Okay so throwaway account but I'll just drop a few things which could be of interest. The guy behind TileHaven is now involved with a cryptocurrency related mlm/ponzi scheme. Does this matter in the business world, I'm not really sure but I suppose its good to do your homework before you lend your money to other people. It's called 'Dascoin' and it has been doing rounds in Ireland over the last number of months, another guy called Paul Mccarthy from Cork is the ''global ambassador' who has in the past has left deluded investors high and dry with another mlm/ponzi called Banners Brokers. Below is everything you need to know but a few mins of googling will tell all! Seems that I cant post urls, but search Vivan O'Callaghan dascoin and it will be very clear what I mean
bitcointalk (dot org) /index.php?topic=1636850.0
behindmlm (dot com) /companies/dascoin-securities-fraud-cease-and-desist-issued-in-bc-canada/
youtube (dot com)/watch?v=QYZefNlCahc

Cute Hoor

kevinandrewz wrote: »

Okay so throwaway account but I'll just drop a few things which could be of interest. The guy behind TileHaven is now involved with a cryptocurrency related mlm/ponzi scheme. Does this matter in the business world, I'm not really sure but I suppose its good to do your homework before you lend your money to other people. It's called 'Dascoin' and it has been doing rounds in Ireland over the last number of months, another guy called Paul Mccarthy from Cork is the ''global ambassador' who has in the past has left deluded investors high and dry with another mlm/ponzi called Banners Brokers. Below is everything you need to know but a few mins of googling will tell all! Seems that I cant post urls, but search Vivan O'Callaghan dascoin and it will be very clear what I mean
bitcointalk (dot org) /index.php?topic=1636850.0
behindmlm (dot com) /companies/dascoin-securities-fraud-cease-and-desist-issued-in-bc-canada/
youtube (dot com)/watch?v=QYZefNlCahc

OH SSJ!!!!!!!
Thanks Kevin for the heads up.
Looks to me like LK investors have been taken for mugs!!!

garrettod

Cute Hoor wrote: »

....Looks to me like LK investors have been taken for mugs!!!

Absolutely not !

....we put our trust in the paid professionals at Linked Finance to ensure that there is proper due diligence carried out on potential borrowers etc.

I'm sure there's nothing to worry about here

kevinandrewz

Where there is smoke, there is fire.
solocheck (dot ie)/Irish-Director/O-Callaghan/Vivian/1272632886/
irishtimes (dot com)/business/financial-services/central-bank-investigating-fraudulent-finance-firm-1.3080986
centralbank (dot ie)/news-media/press-releases/warning-on-unauthorised-firm-zanta-ventures
May be I am totally off my rocker but you cant just ignore the trail of evidence that is available online which makes me quite skeptical

s7ryf3925pivug

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057692688&page=4

Thread on dascoin. It’s very clear that it was a scam, and it seems like a good few people lost a lot on it.

I speculate that those anomalously high stock levels seem pretty fishy in the context.

CeilingFly

kevinandrewz wrote: »

Okay so throwaway account but I'll just drop a few things which could be of interest. The guy behind TileHaven is now involved with a cryptocurrency related mlm/ponzi scheme. Does this matter in the business world, I'm not really sure but I suppose its good to do your homework before you lend your money to other people. It's called 'Dascoin' and it has been doing rounds in Ireland over the last number of months, another guy called Paul Mccarthy from Cork is the ''global ambassador' who has in the past has left deluded investors high and dry with another mlm/ponzi called Banners Brokers. Below is everything you need to know but a few mins of googling will tell all! Seems that I cant post urls, but search Vivan O'Callaghan dascoin and it will be very clear what I mean
bitcointalk (dot org) /index.php?topic=1636850.0
behindmlm (dot com) /companies/dascoin-securities-fraud-cease-and-desist-issued-in-bc-canada/
youtube (dot com)/watch?v=QYZefNlCahc

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1636850.0

https://behindmlm.com/companies/dascoin-securities-fraud-cease-and-desist-issued-in-bc-canada/

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QYZefNlCahc

https://solocheck.ie/Irish-Director/O-Callaghan/Vivian/1272632886/


If above is true, then LF should be making immediate enquiries and if wrong information was provided, then the loans should be called in immediately

Interesting the slight difference in name and missing apostrophe in Zantha Ventures and possibly the other director is using her maiden name as a shield.

If you are a lender to Tilehaven, maybe send this information on to LF to investigate

Cute Hoor

The borrower (TileHaven) has made contact with Linked Finance to advise payment will be made tomorrow in respect of the first installment on this Loan. Once funds have been receipted we will distribute to all lenders .

kevinandrewz

Spot on! I noticed that too, they seem to be joint directors on a lot of the same businesses and obviously using her maiden name in some. You can use Solocheck and Duedil's director search function too which give you a list of companies they are directors of. Ah yes I just noticed the apostrophe there too, also he has two different date of births up as well but born in the same year. Looks quite fishy to me. Here is his website cryptopreneur(dot)ie .

sceach16

New loan for 150k for 36 months. Not a mention that they have borrowed previously although the waffle looks like a re hash of previous.


They are on 26/36 repayments without any problem on the loan I lent to. I dont know if there are others since.


Extraordinarily, the financial statement shows no interest paid for 31/12/17. I think I got some interest from them !


Anyone looking at the accounts and balance sheet will see the need for a funds flow statement on this and all Linked loans.



Obviously Linked are going back to form and failing to provide relevant and accurate information.

garrettod

Hi,

Thanks for posting this info - have you been on to Linked Finance about this ?

It's fairly basic stuff and almost inexcusable at this stage to see those type of errors and omissions on Linked Finance tbh, but until we (their customers !) start putting them under more pressure, little will change.

Current Year Management Accounts and Cashflows are vital pieces of information when considering lending to a business, but conveniently omitted by LF either because no one there understands their importance, or else because they may lead to more intelligent questions being raised about the Borrower.

Last time I raised the issue of no interest being shown in accounts, I was told that it was incorporated in bank charges within the financial statements so wasn't broken out. You'd think Linked Finance would know to either raise the question with the relevant auditor to get the breakdown, or failing that stick the total for bank fees and charges all into loan interest on their template, give bank charges rarely represent more than a small part of the overall financing costs, once there's debt in a business. A subsequent note to explain how they've handed it, would then easily close the issue off.

sceach16

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for posting this info - have you been on to Linked Finance about this ?

It's fairly basic stuff and almost inexcusable at this stage to see those type of errors and omissions on Linked Finance tbh, but until we (their customers !) start putting them under more pressure, little will change.

Current Year Management Accounts and Cashflows are vital pieces of information when considering lending to a business, but conveniently omitted by LF either because no one there understands their importance, or else because they may lead to more intelligent questions being raised about the Borrower.

Last time I raised the issue of no interest being shown in accounts, I was told that it was incorporated in bank charges within the financial statements so wasn't broken out. You'd think Linked Finance would know to either raise the question with the relevant auditor to get the breakdown, or failing that stick the total for bank fees and charges all into loan interest on their template, give bank charges rarely represent more than a small part of the overall financing costs, once there's debt in a business. A subsequent note to explain how they've handed it, would then easily close the issue off.

I have given up on Linked. :mad: