redundancy due?

Penny Tration

Question for a few friends.

Their company was handed over to someone else. They were issued p45s and given final pay and accrued holidays.

The new company offered to keep them on - but on less money. they would take them but change their working policies, and change their commission bands, which would result in a weekly drop in commission for both.

They didn't accept that because they didn't feel they should have to accept a reduction in their commission and their work practices, along with the insults the new owner hurled their way.

Are they (both employed more than 2 years with no breaks) entitled to redundancy because the role they were offered would result in a drop in pay?

Stheno

Penny Tration wrote: »

Question for a few friends.

Their company was handed over to someone else. They were issued p45s and given final pay and accrued holidays.

The new company offered to keep them on - but on less money. they would take them but change their working policies, and change their commission bands, which would result in a weekly drop in commission for both.

They didn't accept that because they didn't feel they should have to accept a reduction in their commission and their work practices, along with the insults the new owner hurled their way.

Are they (both employed more than 2 years with no breaks) entitled to redundancy because the role they were offered would result in a drop in pay?

Essentially yes under TUPE, but legally it's a grey area and has resulted in different judgements in the past.

Any union involvement?

brightspark

Not an expert but the claim for redundancy would have to be against their former employer, esp as they were issued p45s.

But many employees are just transferred to the new company, maintaining continuity of service and existing conditions...pending the new employer negotiating new conditions of course.

There is some EU rule about treatment of employees when a company is sold, but I don't know it.

Penny Tration

Thanks guys!

No union involvement unfortunately.

I also assumed it'd be a direct transfer, but they were handed p45s and final pay then were essentially offered a job there again, under different conditions.

I'm aware any claim would be against the former employer.

Stheno

Penny Tration wrote: »

Thanks guys!

No union involvement unfortunately.

I also assumed it'd be a direct transfer, but they were handed p45s and final pay then were essentially offered a job there again, under different conditions.

I'm aware any claim would be against the former employer.

Honestlybits one for a solicitor sadly. Sorry not to be more help

Penny Tration

Stheno wrote: »

Honestlybits one for a solicitor sadly. Sorry not to be more help

Nah, that IS a help! Being told that means it's not a straight up "no."

Thank you!

Stheno

Penny Tration wrote: »

Nah, that IS a help! Being told that means it's not a straight up "no."

Thank you!

You're very welcome

First consultation should be free if you post a request for a specialist aolititor here you might get some recommendations, I did in the past
Best of luck!

Youngblood.III

I have some info on TUPE..pm me and I will email it to you

Avatar MIA

I would have thought that they've been issued P45s and paid up accrued holidays (can only be done when an employee exits the company) is very clear cut. They have been exited from the company and made redundant.

New company effectively offering them a new job opportunity.

Penny Tration

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I would have thought that they've been issued P45s and paid up accrued holidays (can only be done when an employee exits the company) is very clear cut. They have been exited from the company and made redundant.

New company effectively offering them a new job opportunity.

That's what I thought - made redundant, then offered a new job.

I'll get them to look into it. The former employer (also my own former employer, though I resigned before this happened) certainly won't pay it!,

brightspark

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/redundancy_payments.html

If your employer has not paid your redundancy lump sum, you should apply to your employer for it using form RP77 (pdf). If your employer still refuses to pay it, you can apply to the Department of Social Protection for direct payment from the Social Insurance Fund. This must be done online using form RP50 as follows:

If your employer is unable to pay your redundancy lump sum, he should sign the RP50.They should also submit a letter from an accountant or solicitor stating they are unable to pay and accepting liability for 100% of the lump sum (85% for a dismissal in 2012) owing to the Social Insurance Fund. Documentary evidence such as audited accounts should also be included.
If your employer refuses to pay your redundancy lump sum or if there is a dispute about redundancy you can bring a claim to the Workplace Relations Commission. You must use the online complaint form available on workplacerelations.ie. This must be done within one year of your dismissal. To apply for your lump sum you should send a completed form RP50 together with a favourable decision from the adjudicator of the Workplace Relations Commission.

Stheno

Penny Tration wrote: »

That's what I thought - made redundant, then offered a new job.

I'll get them to look into it. The former employer (also my own former employer, though I resigned before this happened) certainly won't pay it!,

They honestly need to talk to a solicitor, as TUPE will feature heavily here.

Penny Tration

Stheno wrote: »

They honestly need to talk to a solicitor, as TUPE will feature heavily here.

Yep, that's what I've told them to do, and pointed them towards the FLAC that runs in our area.