Sloooow Play - what would you change?

Jawgap

.....to improve the pace of the game?

Scorecard penalties are only 'effective deterrent for slow play'

There is a refreshing impatience about the new chief executives leading the game of golf.

Within a week of European Tour boss Keith Pelley making clear he wants to fight slow play, his counterpart at the R&A, Martin Slumbers, was holding a St Andrews conference on the issue.

There is broad agreement that the sport needs to speed up and it seems the authorities appreciate the tone can be set by the professional game.

I'd generally agree with scorecard penalties, but at the lower levels of the sport I'm not sure how they'd be administered and imposed.

Some of the rule changes being suggested make some sense - for example no penalty for striking the flag from the putting surface to eliminate the need to walk up and remove it and some of the discussions around whether a player is on or off the green.

leonards

Jawgap wrote: »

.....to improve the pace of the game?

Scorecard penalties are only 'effective deterrent for slow play'



I'd generally agree with scorecard penalties, but at the lower levels of the sport I'm not sure how they'd be administered and imposed.

Some of the rule changes being suggested make some sense - for example no penalty for striking the flag from the putting surface to eliminate the need to walk up and remove it and some of the discussions around whether a player is on or off the green.

Repeat offenders should only be allowed to tee off / book timeslots later in the competition.....

A Shaved Duck?

leonards wrote: »

Repeat offenders should only be allowed to tee off / book timeslots later in the competition.....

How is this adminstered?...what clubs are being proactive about the slow play.. I know my own course does very little.

There needs to be a system where rounds are monitored and then a consistent offender be informed of the length of time they take to get round.

Its practically impossible to implement any of these recommendations without a real sample of data, otherwise its all subjective and unenforcable.

Jawgap

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

How is this adminstered?...what clubs are being proactive about the slow play.. I know my own course does very little.

There needs to be a system where rounds are monitored and then a consistent offender be informed of the length of time they take to get round.

Its practically impossible to implement any of these recommendations without a real sample of data, otherwise its all subjective and unenforcable.

Our place had a 'ranger' for a while, but it was discontinued after, shall we say, 'reservations' were vociferously expressed by a selection of the membership

A Shaved Duck?

Jawgap wrote: »

Our place had a 'ranger' for a while, but it was discontinued after, shall we say, 'reservations' were vociferously expressed by a selection of the membership

Thats the thing the rangers are normally retired gents... no way they are going to start having arguments over time sheets or start annoying their pals out on the course.

Russman

A very difficult one to police because its so subjective.
I'd say 99% of slow players have no idea they are slow.
Really I think it comes down to players not having a preconceived idea that, we'll say for the sake of argument, 4hrs, is fast. I know of one group who play about 5th or 6th line out on the timesheet and are usually 3 or 4 holes (at least) behind when the guys in front of them finish. Yet they think because they were around in X hours they were ok.

I'm all for stroke penalties on the tours, absolutely. And arguably even more pertinently, at the likes of the provincial championship, some of those lads are a joke. IMO the best that would come of that would be the trickle down effect to the lower levels and eventually club golfers and juniors.

Purely IMHO, most (obviously not all) of the slow play at club level is from simple things like leaving your bag on the correct side of the green, not being ready to hit when its your turn, not standing on the green marking a card when the hole is finished, stuff like that. I've found that there's this idea out there that 3.5hrs is "running around" the course, its certainly not and nobody has to sacrifice their enjoyment to accomplish it, its just using common sense. A 15 handicapper standing by the 150 marker doesn't need to know whether its 149 or 154 yards to the pin.

mike12

One of the things that really slows everyone down is some fellow wheeling his bag all the way around the green while his 3 playing partners wait to putt, get on the green and mark your ball first. Then go move the bag.

First guy to the tee box tees off first.
Within reason on the fairway play as u are ready a 4ball with 2 guys on each side of the fairway should be every second shot.

Walk to your own ball and get ready, nothing worse than watching 4 Muppets cluster around a ball then move 10 yards and do it again.

BorderGap

I read something recently which I though would help; players would sign-in/register at the computer in their club before going out to play and they would sign off on their round when they came in. The computer would then calculate the time they took for their round.

A leader board showing the times each player took to play their round would be published each week. After a few weeks people would not want to appear at the bottom of the leader board on a regular basis and as such would hurry along a little.

Yes there will be someone who forgets to sign-in/out and others who just don't bother, so you'd need to show these on the leader board together with a count of how many times in a season they fail to sign-in/out.

Basically naming and shaming via technology.

Dr.Rieux

BorderGap wrote: »

I read something recently which I though would help; players would sign-in/register at the computer in their club before going out to play and they would sign off on their round when they came in. The computer would then calculate the time they took for their round.

A leader board showing the times each player took to play their round would be published each week. After a few weeks people would not want to appear at the bottom of the leader board on a regular basis and as such would hurry along a little.

Yes there will be someone who forgets to sign-in/out and others who just don't bother, so you'd need to show these on the leader board together with a count of how many times in a season they fail to sign-in/out.

Basically naming and shaming via technology.

I think better than that would be something on the first tee, 10th tee and off the 18th green where you "clock in" and it's stamped onto your card. That way you can spot obvious gaps from one group to the next.

BorderGap

Doc, the problem with this suggestion is that you need to get technology at each of these locations with an electric supply which is designed to withstand the irish weather and this is a costly solution.
The technology in the clubhouse is already present in most clubs so additional costs would be limited.

Hoboo

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

I think better than that would be something on the first tee, 10th tee and off the 18th green where you "clock in" and it's stamped onto your card. That way you can spot obvious gaps from one group to the next.

That's all well and good if you don't mind taking the rap for one member in your group. In the study I read in Golf Monthly it didn't go down well with members, nor did the name and shame.

Personally I think slow play is 50% physical 50% mental.

Physical in that there are ways to keep a steady pace........ready to play, rake bunkers for others, mark cards when waiting for others to tee off, throwing back divots, spotting shots, taking putter and wedge with you, spare ball in pocket etc etc.

But much of it is mental, it's like road rage on a golf course. You're in my way, I'm going at a certain speed, you shouldn't be in my way, I have a divine right, move move move you're slowing me down. I'm now not relaxed, Im going to play worse, I'll get more irate, day ruined.

I used to let it bother me, but it's what Ive learned to expect when on a packed course of fourballs in a club with a large demographic of senior players who aren't sprinters, nor do I expect them to be. I hope someday I'm afforded the same patience. Moreover the majority of club players are mid hc amateurs, balls get lost, even in short rough.

I bring a sandwich, I have a few smokes, I catch up with my mates, and I'm out of the house that bit longer.

That said if someone in your group is holding things up unnecessarily it's up to you to point it out, as you would a rule infringement.

redzerdrog

I have come across very few occurrences of what I would call genuine 'slow play'. 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 hour rounds are acceptable for a 4 ball in my opinion.

We have all had rounds that have been slow due to maybe a 4 ball of beginners going around in 120 strokes, not picking when out of a hole or constantly looking for balls and being stuck behind them. This isn't a major problem as these lads will learn with experience ect.

Also I have had slow rounds were I was accompanied by 3 lads in their 70's/80's. Again I wouldn't put this down to slow play just an off day when we were searching for balls a lot and again taking a lot of strokes to get round. Not a major problem as we all have our off days and once out of the hole we picked up our ball.

However some occurrences of what I'd call genuine 'slow play' involved one of them laser rangefinders. Whereby the direct view of the pin is restricted so the person proceeds to step it out the the nearest point of sight, uses the range finder and then tries to work out the difference. This to me is slow play and a hell of a lot slower then just stepping it out for the nearest marker. However I am not sure what can happen within the rules to change this.

I don't think slow play is that common within my own club however when I play in my local society it is rampant. I do think it comes down to educating the players. I think to reach the casual player this can only be done through mainstream media however watching the pro's give these guys the impression that slower is better and helps their games. I know the likes of sky do regular masterclasses maybe the likes of these on how the increase the pace of play such as being ready to hit, leaving bag on right side of the green or that it doesnt really make that much of a difference to a high hcapper if the pin is 160 or 164 when there is big cross wind.

Jayop

The amount of times I've been waiting at a par3 for the lads in front of me to finish up, then my group tee off, go down and putt out while the other group in front still haven't all tee'd off at the next hole yet. I just can't for the life of me understand how it takes a couple of minutes in some cases between each of them teeing off. They're all playing driver or 3 wood so there's literally no reason to be slow other than ignorance.

First Up

redzerdrog wrote:

However some occurrences of what I'd call genuine 'slow play' involved one of them laser rangefinders. Whereby the direct view of the pin is restricted so the person proceeds to step it out the the nearest point of sight, uses the range finder and then tries to work out the difference. This to me is slow play and a hell of a lot slower then just stepping it out for the nearest marker. However I am not sure what can happen within the rules to change this.

Someone who is slow with a laser rangefinder is also likely to be slow with everything else. Someone who is efficient around other tasks will also use their laser without holding up others.
Not being ready to play on tee, fairway and green is the biggest cause of slow play, followed by uneccessary marking and replacing balls for short putts and leaving clubs in the wrong place.
Its 90% mental and about paying attention.

Benicetomonty

It's a tough one unfortunately and one that will ultimately meet with strong resistance if the necessary measures are implemented.

A ranger is an absolute necessity imo, somebody who is not a member of the club and holds allegiance to nobody. Repeat offenders are well known in my place and would soon become known to an outside observer. It would be a difficult first few months because you'd have to be at the course at various times during the day to get a grasp of busy periods; slow players would have to be distinguished from or identified within slow groups and especially difficult holes with hazards or OB would have to be taken into consideration before you start targeting individuals.

But from there, it does become quite straightforward. Slow play is always somebody's fault. Players of all abilities can be slow and age is certainly not an excuse. My grandad played well into his 80's and barely a round went by when he didn't complain about slow play (and most other things). If the same group is holding the course up at the same time every week, it isn't hard to identify them. After notifications come instructions followed by warnings, then ultimatums: if they don't wish to call groups through and can't or won't speed up, they are told to make way or leave the course.

No doubt there'd be many a colourful conversation had if such a policy were to be enforced but the ranger has to have ultimate authority; maybe a contract could be drawn up and signed by members who are happy to adopt an anti-slowplay policy (the vast majority you would like to believe), assuming a club's constitution would allow for such a concept. Rangers seem to be fairly untouchable in some of the more prestigious clubs (a Ballybunion experience over the summer springs to mind), so I don't see why they can't have the same influence in regular courses. Perhaps financial fears are the real reason slow play isn't properly tackled at club level.

Regardless, playing at an efficient pace of play is one's own responsibility, it's not up to the club to tutor people. If you are playing golf, your position on the course is directly behind the group in front. If you aren't waiting on your shots but the group behind you are, you've lost that position and should be waving through. Any other response is indicative of an attitude problem that goes beyond mere ignorance.

ShivasIrons

There's a number of reasons behind slow play and one solution will not solve the issues. It would seem that most clubs have little idea what causes slow play, i.e they never focus on all the reasons, also they seem to have little appetite to enforce any solutions that would speed up play.

The solutions to slow play are

1. Understanding the causes of slow play e.g amount of people on the course, player behaviour, player ability, course design, course set up etc.
2. Educating players on the causes and solutions.
3. Enforcement, penalties for slow play, if there's no consequence to a slow player's actions, their behaviour won't change.

Clubs have to take responsibility for what's happening on their course and not expect the GUI or R&A or whoever to come up with a solution.

First Up

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Clubs have to take responsibility for what's happening on their course and not expect the GUI or R&A or whoever to come up with a solution.

I'd say that players have the first responsibility for what's happening on the course. If you find yourself playing with someone slow, do something about it - point out that your group is out of position and suggest speeding up.

Nobody wants to have a row but its only by addressing the problem and the culprits that behaviour will change. Do what you can within the boundaries of politeness. If that doesn't have any effect you may have to take it further but expecting "the club" to police a course with 70 or so players spread over a few square miles is unrealistic. You are part of the club.

valoren

That's about all you can do realistically.
You're group should never fall a full hole behind the group in front.

If you do then you're group is slow. Collectively.
There must be something that has caused you to lose the group ahead.
(assuming obviously that you're not in a 4 ball and there's a pair ahead of you).

All you do is politely say is "Let's catch the group ahead. We're a hole behind"
If someone has a problem with that or get's irate then there's not much else you can say or do.

dan_ep82

I think I'm a pretty fast bad player. I can have some awful rounds ( usually at an outing) but I do try to keep up. I hate the idea of holding up other people.

At the same time, there's enough rush in my life that a 4.5hr isn't the end of the world.

The few things that can annoy me in a round
If the players in front stop for a chat on,behind or in front of the green
Talk,laugh,shout obnoxiously loud they usually go silent as they or their partners play
Jump a tee time between a group
Refuse to call through a faster group. Sometimes we could be waiting for the fairway/green to clear for 5+minutes but once they finish they hurry to tee off, back into slow mode.
Walk up your fairway (looking for lost ball) without checking if a group is on it and /or ignoring that the group is ready to play their shot

If they're playing bad, taking lots of shots, take 3 instead of 2 practice swings, spend 20 seconds ranging the shots etc it doesn't bother me even if they end up shanking it into their bag. We all take this too seriously

ShivasIrons

First Up wrote: »

I'd say that players have the first responsibility for what's happening on the course. If you find yourself playing with someone slow, do something about it - point out that your group is out of position and suggest speeding up.

Nobody wants to have a row but its only by addressing the problem and the culprits that behaviour will change. Do what you can within the boundaries of politeness. If that doesn't have any effect you may have to take it further but expecting "the club" to police a course with 70 or so players spread over a few square miles is unrealistic. You are part of the club.

Unless there's a culture of fast play and people being told they're slow in a club, member's telling each other they're slow will lead to conflict, much better to have someone in authority or the committee to do this.

First Up

ShivasIrons wrote:

Unless there's a culture of fast play and people being told they're slow in a club, member's telling each other they're slow will lead to conflict, much better to have someone in authority or the committee to do this.

It doesn't have to be done in a way that leads to conflict. Of course the committee can draw attention to it (as they do) but all members have a responsibility for how the club works.

Boskowski

I don't know. Sure there's the odd slow round and sometimes (but rarely) even a bit of annoyance, but I don't observe slow play too often. And generally speaking...Really lads you should listen to yourselves. Its a game to be enjoyed not a race to the eighteenth. Some people sounds like once they're on the course they can't get off it soon enough. What bloody different does it make whether your round takes 3:30 or 3:50? Unless you live on the course its normal enough for a round of golf to take the bones of half a day between everything door to door. Will it really make you feel so much better if you could shave 20 minutes off from the actual playing of the game?

And before anyone says it I'm not a slow player, but I'm not racing either.

ShivasIrons

Boskowski wrote: »

I don't know. Sure there's the odd slow round and sometimes (but rarely) even a bit of annoyance, but I don't observe slow play too often. And generally speaking...Really lads you should listen to yourselves. Its a game to be enjoyed not a race to the eighteenth. Some people sounds like once they're on the course they can't get off it soon enough. What bloody different does it make whether your round takes 3:30 or 3:50? Unless you live on the course its normal enough for a round of golf to take the bones of half a day between everything door to door. Will it really make you feel so much better if you could shave 20 minutes off from the actual playing of the game?

And before anyone says it I'm not a slow player, but I'm not racing either.

It's not the 3:30 turning into 3:50 rounds that golfers are worried about, it's the 4:30 to 5 hour rounds and longer that they are.

Jayop

Boskowski wrote: »

I don't know. Sure there's the odd slow round and sometimes (but rarely) even a bit of annoyance, but I don't observe slow play too often. And generally speaking...Really lads you should listen to yourselves. Its a game to be enjoyed not a race to the eighteenth. Some people sounds like once they're on the course they can't get off it soon enough. What bloody different does it make whether your round takes 3:30 or 3:50? Unless you live on the course its normal enough for a round of golf to take the bones of half a day between everything door to door. Will it really make you feel so much better if you could shave 20 minutes off from the actual playing of the game?

And before anyone says it I'm not a slow player, but I'm not racing either.

I've often had to cut rounds short because of slow play.

Boskowski

I never had to do that. But I stay away from Saturday mornings for example when its societies out there. No problem really with the membership on Sunday or on our open day or whenever. I usually see slow when I play away in opens and classics or a marquee course for a greenfee. Does your course get a lot of greenfee traffic?

Jayop

Boskowski wrote: »

I never had to do that. But I stay away from Saturday mornings for example when its societies out there. No problem really with the membership on Sunday or on our open day or whenever. I usually see slow when I play away in opens and classics or a marquee course for a greenfee. Does your course get a lot of greenfee traffic?

Weekends are fine for me generally because I've got all the time in the world. I normally play my rounds on weekday mornings because I don't work till late afternoon.

It's usually the older members and a handful of the ladies (the rest of whom are the quickest players in the club) who would hold you up and not let you play through.

Letree

When i first started the game 15 years ago people seemed to be let through a lot more. Now it is very rare for a slow group to let anyone through (where i play anyway).

Montgolfier

Group being held up puts the group in front on the clock 2 strikes and a forced play through. Failure to comply a phone call to the club house appointed marshal and the group is disqualified

cgh

for me to speed up the game you have to look at the start times.
also if there is a singles comp then there should only be 3 balls allowed out and in a minimum of 8 minute intervals.
there is a rule about starting times and it recommends not sending out 4 balls in singles comps because of slow play.

there are so many sticklers for rules on the course but not when it comes to the timesheet and start times.

also if you think you've lost a ball of a drive then play a provisional ball just in case. nothing worse than someone taking more than 5 minutes looking for a ball before going back to the tee to hit another one.

First Up

cgh wrote:

also if you think you've lost a ball of a drive then play a provisional ball just in case. nothing worse than someone taking more than 5 minutes looking for a ball before going back to the tee to hit another one.

We all know that. The question is how to enforce the practices to speed up play.

padzer

cgh wrote: »

for me to speed up the game you have to look at the start times.
also if there is a singles comp then there should only be 3 balls allowed out and in a minimum of 8 minute intervals.
there is a rule about starting times and it recommends not sending out 4 balls in singles comps because of slow play.

there are so many sticklers for rules on the course but not when it comes to the timesheet and start times.

also if you think you've lost a ball of a drive then play a provisional ball just in case. nothing worse than someone taking more than 5 minutes looking for a ball before going back to the tee to hit another one.

I agree with this. If its all 3balls there shouldn't be a problem. And if there is a slow group it will be plain as day to see who is at fault.

I'm saying this having booked us in for the weekend singles in our club as a 4ball in the middle of a load of 3balls, hopefully theres nobody off here behind us!!

Milkers

If you say you're not a slow player but then express a sentiment along the lines of "sure 4.5 hours on the course isn't so bad" or "I don't understand why some people have to rush around the course" etc... odds are you're a slow player! :pac:

First Up

Montgolfier wrote:

Group being held up puts the group in front on the clock 2 strikes and a forced play through. Failure to comply a phone call to the club house appointed marshal and the group is disqualified

Grand. Problem solved. Now, would you like to frame the motion for the AGM to put it into effect?

blue note

In my home club I don't think it's too bad - 3.5 - 4 hours for a threeball, half an hour more for a four would be typical. But to be fair when I've been on other (generally newer) courses I have had some epic rounds. From looking at these groups, I really don't think leaving the bag on the wrong side of the green is the big problem. But general farting around on the green is - lads lining up putts for an eternity, examining them from 4 different angles and taking 7 practice strokes. Similar for longer shots, but around the greens is where I notice it the most. Being ready to hit, leaving your bag on the correct side of the green etc is fine and of course all of these things should be done, but now you have people who do these things so think that they are not the problem. In my experience these are little tips to help avoid slow play, but not the real problem.

Also, I think a lot of the problem is that courses are longer and harder and take about a half hour longer to complete than they did 15 years ago. I don't think people's expectations have changed from then. When I started 3 hours was the norm for a 3 ball and 3 and a half for a 4 ball.

Of course, I started as a junior and above all else it was absolutely drilled into us to play fast. We received good coaching, but along with every lesson we were reminded to play fast. At every competition, even if the slowest 3ball, who took a hundred shots each came home in 3 hours 15, we were still told to be faster. It used to be very annoying to be honest, because we had to call the adults through and give them priority on the tee when we knew we'd be faster than them.

Russman

Boskowski wrote: »

I don't know. Sure there's the odd slow round and sometimes (but rarely) even a bit of annoyance, but I don't observe slow play too often. And generally speaking...Really lads you should listen to yourselves. Its a game to be enjoyed not a race to the eighteenth. Some people sounds like once they're on the course they can't get off it soon enough. What bloody different does it make whether your round takes 3:30 or 3:50? Unless you live on the course its normal enough for a round of golf to take the bones of half a day between everything door to door. Will it really make you feel so much better if you could shave 20 minutes off from the actual playing of the game?

And before anyone says it I'm not a slow player, but I'm not racing either.

3:30 or 3:50 on most normal courses isn't racing or anything close to racing, that's the point.

But, in a sense, I don't think its the total time that people are concerned about, its the rounds where you're waiting on most shots for the group ahead to clear the way. That's where it gets frustrating. Obviously it all adds up to the total time, but you get the point. I've had rounds of 3:15 where we've been waiting a lot, and also had rounds of 3:45 where nobody was held up and we didn't hold anyone up. Its as much about keeping your place on the course as it is playing slowly.

Dbu

I would stress to all that you
'keep up with the group in front, not just stay ahead of the group behind'

JIdontknow

Another issue that I feel contributes to slow play in Winter especially is the course set up. Back tees and back flags etc, but also the upkeep of the course. Softer ground, and in winter longer rough means you can have a good visual on your ball but still spend ages trying to find it to the point you almost have to walk on it to find it, even when in first cut or sometimes fairways. I know this is an act of nature, mud and wetter conditions are nature, but I find at times it does definitely slow things down.

I think another point to make for slow play is players attitudes. People should be always ready to play, as they walk up they should be looking where the flag is and gauging a distance and wind, select a club of choice (usually have it narrowed down to 2 clubs when familiar with course) and go through pre shot and shot, but lads will come over and stand by you and wait, see what you do, what club you hit, then go to their own ball, ask or check a yardage, then rummage through their bag to decide on a club, whereas others walking up to their ball already have mind made up. It is fair to say the line, "your place on a golf course is behind the group in front and not ahead of the group behind". Some of these people don't realise (or don't let on they do) that they are falling behind and playing slowly.

Yes we will all lose a little time at some stage due to losing a ball or something, but in one hole it can be made up again. I know some people who actually stick by "honour on the tee" whereas people should just play ready golf (Matchplay etc is a different story). Unfortunately you often can't talk or explain to these people, as they don't see they are slow. Played recently where we fell behind, upon saying we needed to pick it up for a few holes they say- why, we are grand, sure the group behind haven't hit their shots into green yet and aren't waiting etc (then when you get to the green you look back and see them waiting and not happy looking, and rightly so). I think a clock say on the 10th tee might help somewhat, I have seen that before with a sign saying for example, 3 ball -1 hour 45 to here, 4 ball 1 hour 55 (just an example).

Dr Devious

You can't penalize a fourball just because one of them is as slow as bejayus. Anybody who hits a ball in to the second cut of rough MUST play a provisional, you then have 3 only minutes searching from the time the player with the shortest drive has reached his ball, then straight over to the provisional. But In reality most groups don't usually have the gumption to tell the offending player the time is up.

Webbs

JIdontknow wrote: »

Another issue that I feel contributes to slow play in Winter especially is the course set up. Back tees and back flags etc, but also the upkeep of the course. Softer ground, and in winter longer rough means you can have a good visual on your ball but still spend ages trying to find it to the point you almost have to walk on it to find it, even when in first cut or sometimes fairways. I know this is an act of nature, mud and wetter conditions are nature, but I find at times it does definitely slow things down.

For winter golf tees should definitely be pushed all the way up, our course has little rough and hardly ever need to take much time in a round looking for a ball. However, when it gets to winter with plugged balls, leaves covering balls etc the rounds can then slow down noticeably especially when tees are pushed back.

Jayop

Webbs wrote: »

For winter golf tees should definitely be pushed all the way up, our course has little rough and hardly ever need to take much time in a round looking for a ball. However, when it gets to winter with plugged balls, leaves covering balls etc the rounds can then slow down noticeably especially when tees are pushed back.

Greenkeepers can help with this by trying as best they can to keep the rough at a reasonable length. Sometimes it's amazing how bad it is and like you say with soft ground and plugged balls it's near impossible to find your ball at times.

Milkers

Jayop wrote: »

Greenkeepers can help with this by trying as best they can to keep the rough at a reasonable length. Sometimes it's amazing how bad it is and like you say with soft ground and plugged balls it's near impossible to find your ball at times.

Not to mention the feckin leaves masquerading as balls.

Dtoffee

I find this whole issue to be flawed in so many ways. Golf is a game of skill not speed (you get no extra points for being fast) and the average age of a golf club member is probably over 50. I dont understand the need to speed everything up ....... its a leisurly sport that should be enjoyed by all ages and not a sprint to see who can get around the quickest.

What are all these speed golfers going to do wher they age and their bodies can no longer keep up the pace that the next generation are demanding? respect seems to be ignored in this debate.

Lets face it, there always has been slow players and always will be unless you want to kill the game off altogether and thats whats happening in some cases.

Nobody sets out to be slow, bad golf and bad health are often the most natural causes of it. Some players I know are in their 80s and I thouroughly enjoy their company when I get drawn out with them, I admire their desire to continue playing and fight the aging process ..... moaning and bitching about slow play is an insult to these players who have given a lifetime of devotion to the sport.

Respect was golfs greatest asset when I started playing, it was given to you and demanded in return ..... it seems to be a bad word these days.

First Up

Dtoffee wrote:

Respect was golfs greatest asset when I started playing, it was given to you and demanded in return ..... it seems to be a bad word these days.

Respect applies to those waiting behind you too. Its about keeping up, not speeding up. Of course it isn't a race but if a group is out of position and causing undue delay, then they should be aware of it and try to adjust their behaviour.
Anything wrong with that?

Letree

The problem is a slow group can hold up the whole course of they refuse to let people through. There can then be 40 or 50 people forced to play at their slow pace then.

dan_ep82

Dtoffee wrote: »

I find this whole issue to be flawed in so many ways. Golf is a game of skill not speed (you get no extra points for being fast) and the average age of a golf club member is probably over 50. I dont understand the need to speed everything up ....... its a leisurly sport that should be enjoyed by all ages and not a sprint to see who can get around the quickest.

What are all these speed golfers going to do wher they age and their bodies can no longer keep up the pace that the next generation are demanding? respect seems to be ignored in this debate.

Lets face it, there always has been slow players and always will be unless you want to kill the game off altogether and thats whats happening in some cases.

Nobody sets out to be slow, bad golf and bad health are often the most natural causes of it. Some players I know are in their 80s and I thouroughly enjoy their company when I get drawn out with them, I admire their desire to continue playing and fight the aging process ..... moaning and bitching about slow play is an insult to these players who have given a lifetime of devotion to the sport.

Respect was golfs greatest asset when I started playing, it was given to you and demanded in return ..... it seems to be a bad word these days.

Sorry but that whole post comes across as "respect your elders"

It's not just the older players holding things up, nor are they the sole focus of the thread unless I missed something?

On course conditions, I agree. Shorter rough would, I think, definitely help. Nothing more frustrating than being a couple of yards off the fairway only to lose the ball

Senna

A big digital clock at the 10th tee that runs 1.45-2 hours slow, sign above it says "if you teed of earlier than this time, you are SLOW, either speed up or get out of the the way".

Solar powered large digital clock won't cost much.

Hoboo

Dtoffee wrote: »

I find this whole issue to be flawed in so many ways. Golf is a game of skill not speed (you get no extra points for being fast) and the average age of a golf club member is probably over 50. I dont understand the need to speed everything up ....... its a leisurly sport that should be enjoyed by all ages and not a sprint to see who can get around the quickest.

What are all these speed golfers going to do wher they age and their bodies can no longer keep up the pace that the next generation are demanding? respect seems to be ignored in this debate.

Lets face it, there always has been slow players and always will be unless you want to kill the game off altogether and thats whats happening in some cases.

Nobody sets out to be slow, bad golf and bad health are often the most natural causes of it. Some players I know are in their 80s and I thouroughly enjoy their company when I get drawn out with them, I admire their desire to continue playing and fight the aging process ..... moaning and bitching about slow play is an insult to these players who have given a lifetime of devotion to the sport.

Respect was golfs greatest asset when I started playing, it was given to you and demanded in return ..... it seems to be a bad word these days.

TBH when I started playing 33 years ago I never once heard of slow play. Ever. I stopped for 23 years, came back, and it's all I hear. I really think it's a societal issue, the expectancy to get the f**k out of my way, people slowing ME up.

I think many golfers should look at buying their own course.

Does a 5 hour round piss me off? Course it does, I'm one pint down. But unfortunately I share the course. Like at the gym I don't always get the bench when I want it, it delays me, but that's life.

Montgolfier

I don't think older people are slow. They usually hit the ball straight. It's the cowboy golfer that believes he's Mcilroy and bombs his drive a mile into the ditch that I see as being the problem. I was that guy I know it's amazing how much time you lose looking for balls. I do hit it straighter now but at the start I was brutal.
So last week our group was held up by a visiting group we were 3 they were 4. Every hole we waited for them to kick on eventually at the 12th we were allowed through as one of them had a score and the needed more time to find their ball. That's a lack of education or a low golf IQ. Lads need to be told to let people through if they are holding up a group.

DiegoWorst

be ready to tee off 10 minutes before assigned teetime, and keep pace with the group directly in front.
practice swings, lining up putts, range finders - all okay as long as you remain on the heels of the group in front.

Very easy to put a spurt on if losing ground - 200 yard walk to your ball, do you stroll n chat, or do you stride out to the ball.

Mantis Toboggan

Any competitions that tee off on the 1st and 10th simultaneously?

Also 3 balls as opposed to 4 balls makes a big difference imo.

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

I don't think older people are slow. They usually hit the ball straight. It's the cowboy golfer that believes he's Mcilroy and bombs his drive a mile into the ditch that I see as being the problem. I was that guy I know it's amazing how much time you lose looking for balls. I do hit it straighter now but at the start I was brutal.
So last week our group was held up by a visiting group we were 3 they were 4. Every hole we waited for them to kick on eventually at the 12th we were allowed through as one of them had a score and the needed more time to find their ball. That's a lack of education or a low golf IQ. Lads need to be told to let people through if they are holding up a group.

There's a lot of truth in this. I mostly find that the slow players aren't necessarily the older gents (for sure some are, but most sensible people realise an 80 year old can't be as quick as a 25 year old). There's also the generation of "I paid my fee and I'll take as long as I bloody well want" which I think is a bigger problem. The respect issue cuts both ways.

I also think, with the some players who have maybe read a Bob Rotella book, that they feel they have to spend an age on "their routine", they obviously didn't the part about the best routines being the simplest ones.

Think how easy it would be for any player to knock say 45-60 seconds off how long they took on each hole, never mind each shot. There's your 15-20 mins over a round straight away. And that's just one player. It doesn't take speed golf to play at a respectable pace, there's plenty of time to chat, look at lines, get a yardage etc if people would just use a little cop on.