Formula 1 2016: General Discussion Thread

Charlie-Bravo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wonder what the TR will look like

Maybe it'll look suspiciously like last year's RB :pac:

Ghost Train

I'd kind of like to see an orange McLaren this year

Jordan 199

Ghost Train wrote: »

I'd kind of like to see an orange McLaren this year

Fluorescent Pink for me.

El_Duderino 09

astrofluff wrote:

Maybe it'll look suspiciously like last year's RB

I have my prediction in the other thread that TR will finish ahead of RB this year so I wouldn't be surprised if they make the TR the flashier of the 2.

Ghost Train wrote:

I'd kind of like to see an orange McLaren this year

Joe Seward had a story about Sony being mclaren title sponsor in 2014 or 2015, which would most likely have brought orange to the car. A lot has changed since then though.

stevesxm

Ghost Train wrote: »

The matte finish is interesting, wonder what the aero performance is of matte vs glossy, they probably wouldn't use it if it was going to any sort of disadvantage

Wonder how it will look out on track

during the development of americas cup boats when they were 12M formula , 3M developed a mat finish that would control boundary layer delamination and renergize flow around curved surfaced all of which resulted in overall reduced surface drag. and regardless of what newey says to the press, nothing he does and nothing that gets done on that car gets done for " no reason "

mickdw

stevesxm wrote: »

during the development of americas cup boats when they were 12M formula , 3M developed a mat finish that would control boundary layer delamination and renergize flow around curved surfaced all of which resulted in overall reduced surface drag. and regardless of what newey says to the press, nothing he does and nothing that gets done on that car gets done for " no reason "

Williams had the matte finish over the last couple of years. They claimed it looked better on tv but I always figured there was something else involved whether it be a light weight paint or an aero benefit.

flazio

Pascal Werdhein and Rio Haryanto confirmed as the Manor drivers.

https://twitter.com/ManorRacing/status/700244152911581185

stevesxm

i find this strange. wehrlin i can understand to get the merc driveline... but here is a chance for manor to really move up the order. i understand they need the money but couldn't they put someone else in the car that has actually driven them and can produce some results ? i know there are no superstars out there without a drive but there are a bunch of guys with good experience that could make a difference i think... seems short sighted to me...

PopePalpatine

Haryanto's no slouch, he has a few GP2 wins to his name and even held off Vandoorne last year in one of the races at the Red Bull-Ring, which was no mean feat.

Zcott

Plus loads of cash. He probably had the right combination of speed, skill, and money. Rossi might have been quicker, but didn't bring much money.

El_Duderino 09

Zcott wrote:

Plus loads of cash. He probably had the right combination of speed, skill, and money. Rossi might have been quicker, but didn't bring much money.

And nationality. It helps to be from a country where f1 is expanding. Rossi's American which helps. Both f1 and car manufacturers want to expand into Asia.

Jordan 199

So here is the driver and team line-ups for this season:

Mercedes:

Lewis Hamilton (#44) and Nico Rosberg (#6)

Ferrari:

Sebastian Vettel (#5) and Kimi Raikkonen (#7)

Williams:

Felipe Massa (#19) and Valtteri Bottas (#77)

Red Bull:

Daniel Ricciardo (#3) and Daniil Kvyat (#26)

Force India:

Sergio Perez (#11) and Nico Hulkenberg (#27)

Renault:

Kevin Magnussen (#20) and Jolyon (#30)

Toro Rosso:

Max Verstappen (#33) and Carlos Sainz Jr (#55)

Sauber:

Marcus Ericsson (#9) and Felipe Nasr (#12)

McLaren:

Fernando Alonso (#14) and Jenson Button (#22)

Manor:

Rio Haryanto (#88) and Pascal Wehrlein (#94)

Haas:

Roman Grosjean (#8) and Esteban Gutierrez (#21)

stevesxm

well only 5 more days and we can find start to find out what the truth of it all is. personally i am looking forward to seeing how haas/grosjean make out. it was a very clever plan they put together and i am really curious to see if it pans out. have any of you guys ever taken part in that castrol result predictor game that autosport runs ?

seamusk84

Can't wait for the start of testing next week. Going to be glued to the time sheets on Monday.

Really hope Honda have worked some magic.

El_Duderino 09

seamusk84 wrote:

Can't wait for the start of testing next week. Going to be glued to the time sheets on Monday.

Be fair. They don't do much in testing that can tell us where they actually stand apart from reliability. If teams are fast they say they are probably running light on fuel. If they are slow they say they are holding back. They usually do shake downs, aero work, and run out if fuel on purpose so there are constant red flags which mean you can't tell anything by the end of the test. Plus the weather is cold or raining and unlikely to be representative of any of the races for brakes engine or tyres. Sorry to be a buzz kill but it's the same every year.

Here's the headline 'Mercedes probably quickest but holding back' 'midfield has probably closed up'. Keep your powder dry for Melbourne.

Frank Bullitt

Ill be waiting for a few days of testing to judge, first few days are always about "getting the systems to work" and ****e like that.

Jordan 199

The Ferrari car launch starts today at 1PM our time. Make sure to put the pics of it in this thread.

Grazie!

Harika

seamusk84 wrote: »

Can't wait for the start of testing next week. Going to be glued to the time sheets on Monday.

Really hope Honda have worked some magic.

Rumor Mill says, that Honda already has issues with the reliability again and even wants to start testing this year with the old engine. And that they already prepared 20 more engines to get through the year.

flazio

New Williams.
http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/williams-martini-racing-launches-fw38

Spudman_20000

flazio wrote: »

New Williams.
http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/williams-martini-racing-launches-fw38

Reminds me of profile pictures on Match.com. Looks good, until you see it in real life.

stevesxm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Be fair. They don't do much in testing that can tell us where they actually stand apart from reliability. If teams are fast they say they are probably running light on fuel. If they are slow they say they are holding back. They usually do shake downs, aero work, and run out if fuel on purpose so there are constant red flags which mean you can't tell anything by the end of the test. Plus the weather is cold or raining and unlikely to be representative of any of the races for brakes engine or tyres. Sorry to be a buzz kill but it's the same every year.

Here's the headline 'Mercedes probably quickest but holding back' 'midfield has probably closed up'. Keep your powder dry for Melbourne.

thats true enough but overall performance in these tests has always been a good indicator... ferrari was good right out of the box last year and stayed that way and red bull/ renault were weak and stayed that way... certainly the lap times mean nothing but the ability of the cars to actually run and drive reliably day after day and set at least reasonable times is a good indicator . if mclaren blows up three motors and is 4 secs off the pace , i think the conclusion that honda hasn't exactly got on top of their problems would be a reasonable conclusion.

El_Duderino 09

stevesxm wrote:

thats true enough but overall performance in these tests has always been a good indicator... ferrari was good right out of the box last year and stayed that way and red bull/ renault were weak and stayed that way... certainly the lap times mean nothing but the ability of the cars to actually run and drive reliably day after day and set at least reasonable times is a good indicator . if mclaren blows up three motors and is 4 secs off the pace , i think the conclusion that honda hasn't exactly got on top of their problems would be a reasonable conclusion.

Ah yes. Fair point. You can get a high level view of some of those points. It would be really interesting to take a look at the stats from last year's testing to see which indicators were telling and which ones weren't. Reliability is probably the best one. Mercedes were able to smash 2 race distances on some occasions. Reliability was pretty solid throughout the grid last season to be fair, with exception of the Renault and Honda engines.

I really hope the McLaren rumours are wrong. Such a waste to have Alonso wasting his time at the back of the grid. I wonder if well hear any rumours about him deciding not to race if the engine is rubbish again.

eviltimeban

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I really hope the McLaren rumours are wrong. Such a waste to have Alonso wasting his time at the back of the grid. I wonder if well hear any rumours about him deciding not to race if the engine is rubbish again.

They can't be bad this year, they simply can't. It's Honda FFS, they are one of the biggest car companies in the world, the resources and money they have to spend is phenomenal. They cocked up last year and they have to have learned from it. Not saying this is 100% but I'd be baffled if they were back of the grid again this year.

Spudman_20000

eviltimeban wrote: »

They can't be bad this year, they simply can't. It's Honda FFS, they are one of the biggest car companies in the world, the resources and money they have to spend is phenomenal. They cocked up last year and they have to have learned from it. Not saying this is 100% but I'd be baffled if they were back of the grid again this year.

Ask Toyota how their foray into Formula 1 went.

eviltimeban

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Ask Toyota how their foray into Formula 1 went.

They did alright. They just didn't have any good drivers. McNish? Zonta? Trulli? Glock? Ralf?

I get your point, but Toyota aren't exactly Honda when it comes to F1 pedigree.

stevesxm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Ask Toyota how their foray into Formula 1 went.

thats an interesting observation and sort of supports a working theory i have always had and that is that , at that level, there a a finite number of people with the talent and abilty to operate a full and effective team. toyota and williams are the poster children for this... toyota had the most powerful motors in that generation but lacked the overall design and driver strength needed to succeed. two years ago williams had a superb car and package and i remember after testing saying to my girlfriend... " gee... if these guys can remember how to actually run a race at the front like they did years and years ago, they could be very tough this year " ... and in fact, thats exactly where they failed... in the garage and on the pit wall... and they STILL haven't fixed it...

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote:

They can't be bad this year, they simply can't. It's Honda FFS, they are one of the biggest car companies in the world, the resources and money they have to spend is phenomenal. They cocked up last year and they have to have learned from it. Not saying this is 100% but I'd be baffled if they were back of the grid again this year.

Plus last year was basically a long test for them. They used a new engine almost every race. Surely they learned all they needed to fix the big problems. Joe Saward reported that the ICE was almost as powerful as the Renault, but MGU-K and MGU-H and overall reliability and overheating were all way off the mark.

I hope they are playing down expectations buried haven't seen any reports yet. If they compete for q3 and compete for points in most races, it would be a success from last year ear.

El_Duderino 09

stevesxm wrote:

" gee... if these guys can remember how to actually run a race at the front like they did years and years ago, they could be very tough this year " ... and in fact, thats exactly where they failed... in the garage and on the pit wall... and they STILL haven't fixed it...

True. I like Williams and would dearly like to see them find their mojo. I think they have big money problems which is why Crash-tor Maldonado got the drive. They're probably spending too much time focusing on survival rather than winning on track.

They do need to get their killer instinct back though.

Spudman_20000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Plus last year was basically a long test for them. They used a new engine almost every race. Surely they learned all they needed to fix the big problems. Joe Saward reported that the ICE was almost as powerful as the Renault, but MGU-K and MGU-H and overall reliability and overheating were all way off the mark.

I hope they are playing down expectations buried haven't seen any reports yet. If they compete for q3 and compete for points in most races, it would be a success from last year ear.

I think they used a new engine every race because the engines kept failing.

The engine token rule may somewhat have limited how much they could improve their engine, but regardless we didn't see them improve over the course of last season anyway. They were still struggling to get out of Q1 at the beginning and end of the season.

Every fan is hoping that they deliver a reasonable car for the sake of Alonso, Button and the team as a whole (OK, maybe not for Ron Dennis' sake ), but for me it really is a hope rather than an expectation based on what I saw last season.

eviltimeban

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If they compete for q3 and compete for points in most races, it would be a success from last year ear.

At the very least. And if midway through the season and they are claiming points in every race it won't be long till people start talking about podiums.

And if they get podiums it won't be long before people start talking about race wins.

Regular points is the base level for this year - that's the very least they should be able to do.

lolie

Mercedes gave their new car a run in Silverstone today, looks pretty simular but the nose looks a little wider than last year's.
Also the engines are expected to be about 12% louder this year with the new exhaust layout.

mickdw

eviltimeban wrote: »

At the very least. And if midway through the season and they are claiming points in every race it won't be long till people start talking about podiums.

And if they get podiums it won't be long before people start talking about race wins.

Regular points is the base level for this year - that's the very least they should be able to do.

Ya it would be great to see them making progress and id assume they will however even as bad as it is, its still worthwhile going into the future having a major engine partner supplying them as a works team instead of being a mercedes customer.

Mike Litoris

Oh no....

Fish out of water

I like it

mickdw

The nose is dodgy looking I'd say

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote:

Ya it would be great to see them making progress and id assume they will however even as bad as it is, its still worthwhile going into the future having a major engine partner supplying them as a works team instead of being a mercedes customer.

Under almost any circumstances you're right. If the engine partner causes such reputational damage to the brand that sponsors flee and they can't recruit the right designers, engineers etc, then they gold be in real trouble. Presumably mclaren have a long term business plan which can absorbed poor results for a year or 2. But this run of results is beyond the pale.

Let's hope honda can steady the ship this year.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.mclarenstore.com/stores/mclaren/en/c/teamwear

Brace yourself, for the worst team wear ever to be seen*


*slight exaggeration

muckwarrior

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.mclarenstore.com/stores/mclaren/en/c/teamwear

Brace yourself, for the worst team wear ever to be seen*


*slight exaggeration

Looks like it was designed with MicroSoft Paint.

Harika

Looks like McLaren doesn't need sponsors. also the design team spend loads of time in the upgrade of the old management shirt> http://www.mclarenstore.com/stores/mclaren/en/product/mclaren-honda-official-team-management-shirt-male-white/160926 to the new one http://www.mclarenstore.com/stores/mclaren/en/product/mclaren-honda-official-team-management-shirt/174279

Jordan 199

I would love if Williams won a race this year.

El_Duderino 09

Mclaren got 35 uninterrupted laps in this morning without being miles off the pace. And breath. It doesn't have to be a winner but it has to be able to compete this year.

That must be more than they did in the whole first test leat year.

mickdw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Mclaren got 35 uninterrupted laps in this morning without being miles off the pace. And breath. It doesn't have to be a winner but it has to be able to compete this year.

That must be more than they did in the whole first test leat year.

Do we know that this year's engine is in the car? Given that this is first test, they are all running alittle of the pace I'm sure so last year's engine might look very good.

Harika

According to Honda it is the new engine and the reports on site, claimed that the sound is different to last years engine.

mickdw

Harika wrote: »

According to Honda it is the new engine and the reports on site, claimed that the sound is different to last years engine.

Excellent

F1 fanatic

Test times so far. good show from Ferrari


1 Vettel Ferrari 1:24.939 43
2 Hamilton Mercedes 1:25.409 74
3 Bottas Williams 1:26.091 43
4 Ricciardo Red Bull 1:26.415 26
5 Sainz Toro Rosso 1:27.180 48
6 Button McLaren 1:27.691 35
7 Ericsson Sauber 1:28.165 39
8 Grosjean Haas 1:28.399 13
9 Celis Force India 1:29.406 21
10 Palmer Renault Sport 1:31.351 15
11 Wehrlein Manor 1:33.455 8

F1 fanatic

HAAS run out. New engine dosen't sound much different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEyaY1PAQaI

F1 fanatic

HAAS flat out sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=252a0THKLY4

F1 fanatic

And finally a few different clips in this link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHX5S7p57sI&list=PLqJJjLgzOisCz25xyk0W3v528eujZ5UFj&index=1

Jordan 199

Wouldn't it be great if we had a season like 2012 where there was eight winners and the championship went down to the last race.

eviltimeban

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we had a season like 2012 where there was eight winners and the championship went down to the last race.

Really, the only teams capable of winning this year are Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and possibly Williams. That's 8 drivers.