Formula 1 2016: General Discussion Thread

Myrddin

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we had a season like 2012 where there was eight winners and the championship went down to the last race.

The 2010 finale was damned exciting too...four drivers in with a shot of the title at the final race.

ScumLord

I still like the sound of the new engines. Especially after they lift the throttle, is that called overrun? Sounds raspy. I like the fact it's a complicated sound, it's pretty unique to F1.

El_Duderino 09

I'm looking at an autosport report of the first test from last year. Sauber had second most laps today and second most over the first test last year which is a good sign for reliability. Their pace was rubbish all last year and they often ended up fighting with the McLaren.

I can't post the link for some reason.

McLaren only did 70 laps in the whole test and they were 7 seconds off the pace. Today they did 45 laps and were 2.5 seconds off the pace.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm looking at an autosport report of the first test from last year. Sauber had second most laps today and second most over the first test last year which is a good sign for reliability. Their pace was rubbish all last year and they often ended up fighting with the McLaren.

I can't post the link for some reason.

McLaren only did 70 laps in the whole test and they were 7 seconds off the pace. Today they did 45 laps and were 2.5 seconds off the pace.

Sauber are still on last years car though, so I would hold off on anything for them.

McLaren ended up with 84 laps today, not so sure about pace yet but they are in a different zone than last year already.

Ferrari and Merc are still ahead of the rest though, which shouldn't be surprising as they are fully fledged works teams.

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote:

Saucer are still on last years car though, so I would hold off on anything for them.

Ah I didn't know that. Is anyone else using their old car? If they used the 2014 car in the first test last year, it would explain their times and reliability then too

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah I didn't know that. Is anyone else using their old car? If they used the 2014 car in the first test last year, it would explain their times and reliability then too

I think Torro Rosso still are? But it has the Ferrari PU in it now.

PopePalpatine

No, Toro Rosso are using their new car in these tests.

I honestly can't see the point of Sauber using their old car in testing. Does anyone know if it has the new Ferrari PU installed?

El_Duderino 09

PopePalpatine wrote:

I honestly can't see the point of Sauber using their old car in testing. Does anyone know if it has the new Ferrari PU installed?

If they had a 2016 car ready they would use it. Failing to bring a new car is a sign of serious trouble. If you were a team owner, you'd see the first test as the deadline for the new car. Failing to meet that means that the team have encountered an unexpected problem with the car or they have financial problems so they are experiencing delays because suppliers aren't being paid etc.

Surely they will be able to get new pieces on the car and can run analysis on those things. Not showing up to the test at all would weaken their position with potential new sponsors.

Frank Bullitt

PopePalpatine wrote: »

No, Toro Rosso are using their new car in these tests.

I honestly can't see the point of Sauber using their old car in testing. Does anyone know if it has the new Ferrari PU installed?

Was their an unveiling for the car? I do like the unbranded car they are running.

I don't think the Sauber has anything new on it just yet, aside from the new tires.

tripperman

Gintonious wrote: »

Was their an unveiling for the car? I do like the unbranded car they are running.

I don't think the Sauber has anything new on it just yet, aside from the new tires.

No unveiling of the new car, it just drove out of the garage and into testing, the official unveiling will be next week with the new livier on it, just plain black this week as car was delayed due to the late Ferrari engine deal and changes to the design of the car needed to fit the engine in

lolie

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we had a season like 2012 where there was eight winners and the championship went down to the last race.

Yes and with neither Hamilton or vettel winning it would be great.

eviltimeban

lolie wrote: »

Yes and with neither Hamilton or vettel winning it would be great.

I'd like to see Vettel win in the Ferrari. Nearly 10 years without a Ferrari champion.

lolie

eviltimeban wrote: »

I'd like to see Vettel win in the Ferrari. Nearly 10 years without a Ferrari champion.

I'd like to see ferrari win again also but it's been 2009 since a non vettel/hamilton winner.
Ferrari should have replaced kimi.

ZiabR

lolie wrote: »

I'd like to see ferrari win again also but it's been 2009 since a non vettel/hamilton winner.
Ferrari should have replaced kimi.

Kimi for Hulkenberg. That should have happened.

Myrddin

logik wrote: »

Kimi for Hulkenberg. That should have happened.

Or Bottas. Though I doubt Ferrari want their own version of 'cap gate' and the likes (:rolleyes:) so might prefer to keep Kimi where he is...

L.S.F

Myrddin wrote: »

Perhaps a bit early, but with 2015 being so utterly dull and not even providing a silly season, any news we get from now will be 2016 related.

Please, 2016...be better than 2015...

I ay this every year that I will get back into watching F1 regularly. Was a fan from mid/late 90's and would stay up to watch the late races religiously. Over the years dues to work/football/hangovers I missed my fair share of races throughout the seasons and last year was the first year I actually never watched one race! In hindsight I didn't miss much at all but saying it again now, I plan to watch races this season or highlights at the very least!

Myrddin

L.S.F wrote: »

I ay this every year that I will get back into watching F1 regularly. Was a fan from mid/late 90's and would stay up to watch the late races religiously. Over the years dues to work/football/hangovers I missed my fair share of races throughout the seasons and last year was the first year I actually never watched one race! In hindsight I didn't miss much at all but saying it again now, I plan to watch races this season or highlights at the very least!

2017 might be a better time to get back into it, with the regulatory shake up on the horizon. 2016 could be decent, but it's likely to be the Merc show again

PopePalpatine

Myrddin wrote: »

Or Bottas. Though I doubt Ferrari want their own version of 'cap gate' and the likes (:rolleyes:) so might prefer to keep Kimi where he is...

Nah, it would never happen, it wouldn't involve a driver flinging something back at Lewis so the British press wouldn't be interested. I know feck-all about how the German press would react, though.

Cookie_Monster

Bernie raises mixed / reversed grids again :rolleyes:

Formula One could force its fastest cars to start from the middle of the grid to improve racing.

The reverse-grid proposal is expected to be made by F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone in a meeting between series stakeholders in Geneva on Tuesday, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said on Monday.

The top qualifiers would be dropped on the grid to keep them from pulling away early, in a bid to try to make F1 more attractive to fans and television audiences.

but that's alright because he'd never go to an F1 event anyway:

Ecclestone said this week in an interview with the Daily Mail in England that F1 “is the worst it has ever been,” and he “wouldn’t spend money to take (his) family to watch a race.”

http://www.driven.co.nz/news/motorsport/reverse-f1-grids-on-the-cards/?ref=NZHNetwork

Myrddin

All of us here usually get a bit excited when the starting grid is out of order (usually due to rain, a driver error, or some such)...so is a reverse grid such a bad idea for the spectators? If so, why?

Can't see it passing anyway, I think Merc & Ferrari call the shots these days.

El_Duderino 09

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Bernie raises mixed / reversed grids again

Mad as it sounds, it would definately force the top cars to push and overtake which would mean they would have to use tyres and fuel in the early part of the race. They would probably have to do an extra pit stop too. I wouldn't support it but it shows how much trouble f1 had got itself in that such mad measure would definately improve the racing.

Harika

Bernies idea might not go through but changes to qualifying will be made.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-agree-elimination-style-qualifying-for-2016-675278/

What brings more cars earlier on track and brings more action on an already good process.

El_Duderino 09

Myrddin wrote:

All of us here usually get a bit excited when the starting grid is out of order (usually due to rain, a driver error, or some such)...so is a reverse grid such a bad idea for the spectators? If so, why?

You're right that it's exciting when the grid is out of order. The problem is in creating such an artificial solution to the problem. It would be acceptance that the racing is dull and the rule makers can't make the racing competitive without killing the sport as we know it.

The real problem is that only ferrari plus 1 or 2 teams can ever afford to compete. The rest are focused on survival. The problem isn't that there isn't enough money on f1, it's that the money doesn't go to the ones who create the value in the sport. Too much money goes to investors and not enough goes to the midfield and back marker teams to make them competitive. This proposal is an artificial way of making the midfield teams competitive without addressing any of the real problems with the sport.

Mike Litoris

Qualy changes singed off. Should make things interesting.


http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122937

Cookie_Monster

Myrddin wrote: »

All of us here usually get a bit excited when the starting grid is out of order (usually due to rain, a driver error, or some such)...so is a reverse grid such a bad idea for the spectators? If so, why?

Can't see it passing anyway, I think Merc & Ferrari call the shots these days.

what's the point in trying to get p1 in quali then if it means you start 15th+
sandbag and aim for 8th or 10th and get rewarded

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Qualy changes singed off. Should make things interesting.
http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122937

that really sounds a bit dodgy. what about blocking or rain or longer vs shorter laps within the 90 seconds. and if merc go out within the first 2 minutes and set the fastest time are they safe or do they need to keep posting fastest times each 90 seconds?

Ghost Train

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Qualy changes singed off. Should make things interesting.


http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122937

Interesting idea, could be a frustrating if driver gets knocked out just as he's about to set his faster lap,

And maybe might be too much of a change and hard to follow but maybe is time to try something different

tripperman

I'm not sure on them changes, with a dry wet session what would be the point in staying out, and it would be entertaining in q1 in Monaco with such a short lap and no room to pass

Spudman_20000

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Qualy changes singed off. Should make things interesting.


http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122937

Oh lord, more messing with something that isn't broken. Leave it to F1 to finally agree on something that doesn't address the fundamental issues with the sport at the moment.

lolie

logik wrote: »

Kimi for Hulkenberg. That should have happened.

Bottas, hulkenberg or ricciardo I'd like to see in the Ferrari, even wouldn't mind alonso back in the Ferrari as it's sad to see a driver like him fighting down the back.

Edit: as for the qualifying what was wrong with it as it was?
Get rid of the big stupid looking front wings.

Ghost Train

This seems to be the sort of head protection they'll adopt in 2017

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/technical/2015/8/video---mercedes-cockpit-protection-concept.html

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/35646427

Ghost Train

OSI wrote: »

How do they expect reverse grid qualifying to work? It only works in the lower formulas because you get points for qualifying and they have multiple races a weekend with one having a reversed grid. If you have no points for qualy and just the one race, qualifying is going to become nothing but a mind ****. Why would you put in the fastest lap knowing it's going to land you further down the field? You'll just see everyone rolling out of the garage at the last second putting in the slowest lap they can manage while still qualifying.

Don't think their talking about reverse grid qualifying, it's just more of a continuous knock out starting with slowest drivers being eliminated first. Instead of losing 5 drivers at a time at end of q1 we'll lose 1 at a time in last 5 min of q1

Harika

Ghost Train wrote: »

Don't think their talking about reverse grid qualifying, it's just more of a continuous knock out starting with slowest drivers being eliminated first. Instead of losing 5 drivers at a time at end of q1 we'll lose 1 at a time in last 5 min of q1

Myrddin asked this before the qualifying changes became official.

joeysoap

Worth a shot. Anything is better than watching qualifying with Hamilton/Rosberg sitting in the garage watching their screens for the first 10 mins ( with 2 cars on track) and then putting in fast laps, going back to the pit to save tyres and knowing they had qualified for the next stage. They will probably head the qualifying times at all stages but at least they have to stay out for the entire qualifying op if they want to get pole.

Charlie-Bravo

I'm looking forward to this quali format and I can see the stewards will have a tough time analysing if anyone is being held up by another driver. While most cars will always be on hot laps, will there be any cars who'll be dipping in and out of the pits for tyres? Also will there be any feul top ups due to trying to be as light as possible. I'm wondering that once quali starts that the necessary feul for the whole session needs to be in the car.

El_Duderino 09

astrofluff wrote:

I'm looking forward to this quali format and I can see the stewards will have a tough time analysing if anyone is being held up by another driver. While most cars will always be on hot laps, will there be any cars who'll be dipping in and out of the pits for tyres? Also will there be any feul top ups due to trying to be as light as possible. I'm wondering that once quali starts that the necessary feul for the whole session needs to be in the car.

It could get tricky when there are yellow and red flags. People will be screwed without any opportunity for another lap. It would be good if it mixes up the order a bit but you don't want it to be random.

It only really applies to the slower cars in each session. The Mercedes will still put in a hot lap and retreat to the garage until the next session as they won't be in any danger. They will all have to do a lap at the start of the session though. Monaco will be a nightmare.

Mitch Connor

A little bit of rain before Quali and it could be insane as the track becomes significantly quicker as it dries out. An early lap would be a low one so you could have loads of cars out at each timing junction to ensure they are remaining ahead of the drying lap times.

stevesxm

is it just me or does this all seem completely contrived and fake ? i thought racing was supposed to be about whose quickest and who races the best. not all these " lets blindfold the driver and make him drive the first 1/2 lap that way and then stop in the pits and take a math quiz that counts against his time " sort of thing... i hate these fake rules...

Myrddin

stevesxm wrote: »

is it just me or does this all seem completely contrived and fake ? i thought racing was supposed to be about whose quickest and who races the best. not all these " lets blindfold the driver and make him drive the first 1/2 lap that way and then stop in the pits and take a math quiz that counts against his time " sort of thing... i hate these fake rules...

I'd say it's safe to say most of us, if not all here, agree. However, to truly fix F1 would require a huge shift in how money is distributed, and how much the investors take from the sport. I can't see that ever happening, there is too much power and control in too few hands, & it looks set to stay that way. So any measures to 'mix it up a bit' are effectively the next best thing, otherwise, as you say, the fastest car wins...& that's what's been happening for the last two years. The Merc's have been untouchable for the most part, & there seems little point in even having a race most of the time.

With power & control staying firmly put, it's always going to fall down to artificial solutions to 'spice things up'. I can't say I'm mad about the proposals for Quali, but I'll wait & see. The reverse grid idea on paper sounds interesting to me, but as many posters with more knowledge than me have pointed out, there are huge problems with it too. The long term future of F1 isn't clear, 2017 has a lot of weight on its shoulders.

TheDoctor

Well at least this years testing is seeing plenty of laps across all the teams, not watching cars breakdown every 15 mins.

Fair play to Haas looks like they have a car to challenge the midfield in year 1.

That Manor is also a nice looking car.

mickdw

To be fair, coming in strongly tied to a major player is the only way you will produce a half competitive car in your first year. Haas and ferrari have been smart here.

Frank Bullitt

Myrddin

^^ The relative difference between the front & rear wheel sizes looks a lot less for 2017, than 2016...

Cookie_Monster

aren't all of these quali changes still a little bit pointless with the same tyre limitations in place though. it's still a case of weighing up not bothering to push in quali and save tyres vs all out leave nothing behind. As long as that's the case and it's not 100% about setting the faster quali lap (for everyone) than no amount of tinkering around the edges will change that.

not to mention engine mileage and strain and blah blah blah yawn.

Also the 2017 front wing looks like it getting much bigger, won't this just continue to generate issues around down force and dirty air and not allow close running, or is it just the rake of it increases?

Cookie_Monster

OSI wrote: »

The front wing was supposed to be getting a lot simpler as well in favour of ground generated down force from a newly designed floor.

that's what I though and hopefully still the case ie I hope that drawing above is not representative of the surface and elements, just the overall shape.

Myrddin

OSI wrote: »

The front wing was supposed to be getting a lot simpler as well in favour of ground generated down force from a newly designed floor.

Hopefully that's the case. How does one define 'simpler' though, as in, is there a limit on the amount of little bits & pieces on it? Hard to imagine they won't find ways around such...

Jordan 199

Is there anymore news as to who will be joining David Coulthard for the Channel 4 coverage?

El_Duderino 09

I read about how Force India had a really slow start to last season. They used 2014 car for most of testing and only tested the 2015 car in the last 2 days of the final test. Then they brought their main chassis upgrade to the European races. After the sluggish start they had a decent second half of the season.

I thought they would be a mess given the financial trouble the owners are having. It's only testing, but they're not a mess

rock22

joeysoap wrote: »

Worth a shot. Anything is better than watching qualifying with Hamilton/Rosberg sitting in the garage watching their screens for the first 10 mins ( with 2 cars on track) and then putting in fast laps, going back to the pit to save tyres and knowing they had qualified for the next stage. They will probably head the qualifying times at all stages but at least they have to stay out for the entire qualifying op if they want to get pole.

I am not sure this actually happened too often last year. I was always astonished by Rosberg and Hamilton going back out to beat each others time when they were clearly through to Q2/Q3.

In any event, the new rules do nothing to stop this happening. If they are as fast as last year, they can do a fast lap in first 5 minutes and sit out the rest of the session, only re-emerging if their speed is threatened.

joeysoap

rock22 wrote: »

I am not sure this actually happened too often last year. I was always astonished by Rosberg and Hamilton going back out to beat each others time when they were clearly through to Q2/Q3.

In any event, the new rules do nothing to stop this happening. If they are as fast as last year, they can do a fast lap in first 5 minutes and sit out the rest of the session, only re-emerging if their speed is threatened.

My understanding of the changes are if your not on track or are slowest at 90 second intervals you are eliminated (after a set number of minutes in each QP)


Qualifying will remain as a one-hour session, split into three segments, but drivers must be on track throughout each part until they get knocked out.

Details on how the new qualifying format will work exactly have yet to be decided, but the general outline has been agreed.

muckwarrior

The intention of the new qualifying rules is basically to try to catch people off guard, occasionally resulting in some of the faster drivers exiting early and as a result having to make their way through the field during the race.