Gary Neville Valencia Manager - Sacked 30th March

nice_guy80

Coaching Badges do not maketh the coach.

raze_them_all_

NIMAN wrote: »

Just goes to show we should put little faith in all these TV pundits.

Most are afraid to take on a coaching or managerial role, and when they do they tend to be shown up.

I listened to peope say how he really knew his stuff and was Sky's best eve pundit. Now they are saying he's a fool.

He does know his stuff and was a good pundit, doesn't make a manager though?

monkey9

I think people are getting a little carried away here. Remember, they still have the second leg at home to come. It's only half time.

weldoninhio

monkey9 wrote: »

I think people are getting a little carried away here. Remember, they still have the second leg at home to come. It's only half time.

Yeah but without an away goal it's an uphill challenge.

Iused2likebusts

NIMAN wrote: »

Just goes to show we should put little faith in all these TV pundits.

Most are afraid to take on a coaching or managerial role, and when they do they tend to be shown up.

I listened to peope say how he really knew his stuff and was Sky's best eve pundit. Now they are saying he's a fool.

He is sky's best ever pundit and can get his point across really well on the TV. However this has nothing to do with being a football manager. He impresses the masses on TV as he points out things to them that they didn't understand or didn't realise. Top level players will have constantly come across this and more with every manager they have worked with.

greendom

Be interesting to see what Gary Neville the pundit says about Gary Neville the manager

AdamD

So because hes failing after 10 games as a manager in a foreign country we're now to ignore everything he said as a pundit? Riiiight

quarryman

NIMAN wrote: »

Just goes to show we should put little faith in all these TV pundits.

Most are afraid to take on a coaching or managerial role, and when they do they tend to be shown up.

I listened to peope say how he really knew his stuff and was Sky's best eve pundit. Now they are saying he's a fool.

Do you have a source for that statement? Or is it just random bullsh*t?

eagle eye

He jumped in at the deep end, simple as that really.

Nowadays most coaches go and do a bit of youth coaching and under-21's before moving on to a big job.

He is on the merry go round now though so he will get other offers in the future.

Ordinary man

Funny how neville is now a fool and a terrible manager but klopp (with a similar recent record) is still a great manager with a bad team

eagle eye

quarryman wrote: »

Do you have a source for that statement? Or is it just random bullsh*t?

Really? Do you really expect somebody to have a source for something like that?

It's clearly just a guy giving his own opinion anyways.

Howard the Duck

I think he was stupid to take the job, he won't be given enough time to turn it around. I think if he was given time he could do a good job here but he would need a couple of transfer windows and some cash to spend.

gimmick

Ordinary man wrote: »

Funny how neville is now a fool and a terrible manager but klopp (with a similar recent record) is still a great manager with a bad team

Klopp has a track record and has won 2 Bundesligas and got to a CL final. Neville has done **** all managerial wise and was given one of the biggest jobs in Spain.

I wonder are people jumping to his defense so much because he is a former Man Utd player and because he was so good on Sky?

Because his record thus far has been abject. Losing 7-0 is a disgrace for a side like Valencia home or away.

As I mentioned earlier, Nuno, the previous manager, was not doing so badly and they sacked him.

Shanotheslayer

Ordinary man wrote: »

Funny how neville is now a fool and a terrible manager but klopp (with a similar recent record) is still a great manager with a bad team

The stupidity is strong in this post.

sReq | uTeK

He's in a foreign country and doesn't speak the language, that's the biggest hurdle. No matter what interpreter he has there its going to be difficult to get his point across to players as passionately as he wants.

I think it was a fool's errand and taking that job compared to a job in the championship with a mid table team with zero pressure and little spotlight would have been a step in the right direction.

StringerBell

I don't see anybody leaping to defend him particularly, certainly not on the job he is doing. Some are pointing out a simple fact that to write off all his brilliant punditry and analysis of the game, and in fact to write him off forever for management is about as dumb as it was giving him the job, or expecting him to succeed in the first place.

Ordinary man

gimmick wrote: »

Klopp has a track record and has won 2 Bundesligas and got to a CL final. Neville has done **** all managerial wise and was given one of the biggest jobs in Spain.

I wonder are people jumping to his defense so much because he is a former Manyoo player and because he was so good on Sky?

Because his record thus far has been abject. Losing 7-0 is a disgrace for a side like Valencia home or away.

As I mentioned earlier, Nuno, the previous manager, was not doing so badly and they sacked him.

So because neville has no track record, he can be wrote off as a manager after 10 games? I used klopp as the example cos it shows a new manager can't always work miracles in such a short space of time. Klopp, lvg and wenger are all managing sides that are getting bad results but are getting a lot more leeway. As you said it's probably the man united connection that has people dismissing him so quickly

kfallon

Ordinary man wrote: »

So because neville has no track record, he can be wrote off as a manager after 10 games? I used klopp as the example cos it shows a new manager can't always work miracles in such a short space of time. Klopp, lvg and wenger are all managing sides that are getting bad results but are getting a lot more leeway. As you said it's probably the man united connection that has people dismissing him so quickly

To be fair Klopp, LVG and Wenger are winning the odd game :pac:

And I don't think they walked into such as big a first job that Neville did!

monkey9

That's a really good idea to compare Jurgen Klopp to Gary Neville for no good reason. That way, we can turn this into a Liverpool V Man U thread. Nice one.

Howard the Duck

kfallon wrote: »

To be fair Klopp, LVG and Wenger are winning the odd game :pac:

And I don't think they walked into such as big a first job that Neville did!

He should have chosen a smaller club as his first club, maybe championship or smaller premier league club where the fans would be less demanding . I still think he'll be a good manager

kfallon

Howard the Duck wrote: »

He should have chosen a smaller club as his first club, maybe championship or smaller premier league club where the fans would be less demanding . I still think he'll be a good manager

And the language barrier prob doesn't help either! Plus I doubt the fans were too impressed with his appointment in the first place so straight away he's on the backfoot with them!

Probably be back on Sky by the end of the month!

gimmick

Ordinary man wrote: »

So because neville has no track record, he can be wrote off as a manager after 10 games? I used klopp as the example cos it shows a new manager can't always work miracles in such a short space of time. Klopp, lvg and wenger are all managing sides that are getting bad results but are getting a lot more leeway. As you said it's probably the man united connection that has people dismissing him so quickly

But Neville has taken over and made the team worse. They were in or around CL contention when he took over. They are closer to the relegation zone now.

Going into a huge job like this in a country of which he doesn't even speak the language was always a risk from both parties. It is backfiring spectacularly thus far.

HalloweenJack

Valencia regularly qualified for the CL not too long ago. They have a 50k stadium, have won dozens of trophies in Spain and Europe, before Atleti they were the last side outside of Madrid and Barca to win the title. They've played in two CL finals this century.

Going on their standing in Spanish football over the last twenty years (two league titles, two CL finals, a UEFA Cup, two Copa del Reys, only two seasons without European football, nine seasons in the CL), they are a relatively successful club. Not at the very top right now but historically one of the biggest and one of the current second-tier teams in La Liga and they have a lot more money to spend than other La Liga clubs.

Imagine a club in a similar situation with a similar history in the EPL (I'll let you choose your own example) appointed an unproven manager who had been a pundit on Spanish telly and doesn't speak a word of English and goes eight league games without a win, including a 7-0 defeat against one of it's biggest rivals. People would be very quick to have a go, saying he's out of his depth, etc., and rightly so.

The fact that he was appointed in the first place was bizarre and stinks to high heaven and he should be thoroughly grilled. I can't imagine any manager in that situation, in Spain, England, Germany or Italy, not being questioned on his ability. It's nothing to do with club loyalty, it's all about what he's shown as a manager so far.

Chardee MacDennis

Ordinary man wrote: »

So because neville has no track record, he can be wrote off as a manager after 10 games? I used klopp as the example cos it shows a new manager can't always work miracles in such a short space of time. Klopp, lvg and wenger are all managing sides that are getting bad results but are getting a lot more leeway. As you said it's probably the man united connection that has people dismissing him so quickly

1. written...

2. lol

Magico Gonzalez

He could be an ex Harlem Globe trotter for all I care, but for this sake of Valencia the need to get shot of him now. He hasn't a notion in terms of Spanish football. He should have started in the lower English leagues, or a less high profile job in Belgium or somewhere like that.

It's not helping him, the club or the fans right now.

Magico Gonzalez

He could be an ex Harlem Globe trotter for all I care, but for this sake of Valencia the need to get shot of him now. He hasn't a notion in terms of Spanish football. He should have started in the lower English leagues, or a less high profile job in Belgium or somewhere like that.

It's not helping him, the club or the fans right now.

inforfun

NIMAN wrote: »

Just goes to show we should put little faith in all these TV pundits.

Most are afraid to take on a coaching or managerial role, and when they do they tend to be shown up.

I listened to peope say how he really knew his stuff and was Sky's best eve pundit. Now they are saying he's a fool.

Analyst/ pundits have to react on stuff that has happened and some are quite good at explaining things and are interesting. Most of them aren't because i always know better anyway

Managing a team is a complete different thing. You need to have a plan for things still waiting to happen.

That said... a first job at a top 4 team in Spain without ever having played there or speaking the language doesnt seem a very bright choice.
Ronald Koeman should have been a warning for Neville, he didnt survive there after playing for years in Spain and being fluent in Spanish.

Flint Fredstone

monkey9 wrote: »

That's a really good idea to compare Jurgen Klopp to Gary Neville for no good reason. That way, we can turn this into a Liverpool V Man U thread. Nice one.

Eh, it was already going that way. This thread is only busy because an ex-United player is failing miserably and certain fans are revelling in it.
If it was Carragher it would be the same with the roles reversed, there's no moral high ground here.

Ordinary man

monkey9 wrote: »

That's a really good idea to compare Jurgen Klopp to Gary Neville for no good reason. That way, we can turn this into a Liverpool V Man U thread. Nice one.

I compared them based on the fact that they've both taken over managing in leagues new to them for a similar lenght of time and have not made the impact that people expected.


I shouldn't have picked liverpool in hindsight with all the precious supporters around waiting to be outraged.

LuckyLloyd

AdamD wrote: »

So because hes failing after 10 games as a manager in a foreign country we're now to ignore everything he said as a pundit? Riiiight

It raises the question about how insightful his TV work may be though? When you have no coaching experience or haven't played the game at an elite level, it's not necessarily hard to present you with analysis that makes sense to you and which seems revelatory. If he can't analyse a team first hand and / or get corrections / adjustments across it does beg the question how much substance there is to his TV punditry.

Bear in mind the bar in that sphere is very, very low!

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It raises the question about how insightful his TV work may be though? When you have no coaching experience or haven't played the game at an elite level, it's not necessarily hard to present you with analysis that makes sense to you and which seems revelatory. If he can't analyse a team first hand and / or get corrections / adjustments across it does beg the question how much substance there is to his TV punditry.

Bear in mind the bar in that sphere is very, very low!

I think more than anything it illustrates the difference between foresight and hindsight. A pundit needs to be great at assessing what has happened in the game and why, a manager has to see what is going to happen in a game before it does and adjust accordingly.

LiamoSail

Is there any examples of a manager, unable to the language of the country and majority of the players, being successful at a big club?

inforfun

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is there any examples of a manager, unable to the language of the country and majority of the players, being successful at a big club?

Van Gaal at Bayern and Barca and if he manages to win anything in Manchester, United?

But to be fair, even the way he speaks Dutch annoys me. He used to be a school teacher for the somewhat "difficult" kids and he still thinks he is dealing with those most of the time i hear him talk.

astonaidan

inforfun wrote: »

Van Gaal at Bayern and Barca and if he manages to win anything in Manchester, United?

But to be fair, even the way he speaks Dutch annoys me. He used to be a school teacher for the somewhat "difficult" kids and he still thinks he is dealing with those most of the time i hear him talk.

Most Dutch people have a very good grasp of German, Id be very surprised if he didnt speak German.
Regarding Nevill, Im going out on a wing and saying, he will turn this around and be a success, yall can quote me when he gets relegated :cool:

Ardent

As a Liverpool fan, I don't like the guy and never understood why people fawned over his punditry. Anyone can talk a good game. I'm delighted he has been found out in management.

Having said that, you have to credit the guy for his ambition. It was a brave move. Unfortunately for him it wasn't a wise one as his reputation will be in tatters for a while after this.

inforfun

astonaidan wrote: »

Most Dutch people have a very good grasp of German, Id be very surprised if he didnt speak German.
Regarding Nevill, Im going out on a wing and saying, he will turn this around and be a success, yall can quote me when he gets relegated :cool:

Same way he speaks English.
Which in German is quite terrifying :P

I am only joking. I know for a fact that every time he went to a a country he didnt speak the language he went to the "nuns" as we call it in The Netherlands.
Although not run by nuns any more, it is place where you go when you need a certain level of a language in a very short time. Not sure he went there for English as the time was probably not there, but he did go there for Spanish and German.

Iang87

I cant see why his poor showing on a manager would influence his punditry. I watch punditry because its the closest we'll ever get to a video session in a premier league setting. I'm not looking for a revelation thats going to change my football watching/supporting life.

The_Kew_Tour

See that comment was fake.

He still doing awful job mind you

NIMAN

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

See that comment was fake.

He still doing awful job mind you

Yeah of course it was.

As Abraham Lincoln once famously said, "never believe anything you read on the internet".

astonaidan

inforfun wrote: »

Same way he speaks English.
Which in German is quite terrifying :P

I am only joking. I know for a fact that every time he went to a a country he didnt speak the language he went to the "nuns" as we call it in The Netherlands.
Although not run by nuns any more, it is place where you go when you need a certain level of a language in a very short time. Not sure he went there for English as the time was probably not there, but he did go there for Spanish and German.

I understand Spanish, but I find it really surprising that a man from his generation didnt speak German, I would have met quiet a few at his age and pretty much spoke German and English exactly like LVG, the dutch tend to be one of the most multi lingual people in the world.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Eh, it was already going that way. This thread is only busy because an ex-United player is failing miserably and certain fans are revelling in it.
If it was Carragher it would be the same with the roles reversed, there's no moral high ground here.

Your 100% correct. Same with this thread same with the Terry thread same with the Giggs thread last year.

Here's some snippets
"Great servant. Great player. Brilliant! No doubt extremely fortunate to have served under Fergie for almost the entirety of it. Perfect timing really."

Then this...
"If you want to show a young player how not to layout their 'off field' antics then Ryan Giggs is the template."

John Terrys thread
"Best ever Premier League CB."

Then this..
"Fantastic centre back,horrible human"

Cringetastic

Me personally, it would have been nice to see him succeed but looks to be way out of his depth.
To say it's going to effect his punditry is nonsense.
It was a failed experiment, all he can do is move on and learn from it.

The_Kew_Tour

NIMAN wrote: »

Yeah of course it was.

As Abraham Lincoln once famously said, "never believe anything you read on the internet".

I like that

inforfun

astonaidan wrote: »

I understand Spanish, but I find it really surprising that a man from his generation didnt speak German, I would have met quiet a few at his age and pretty much spoke German and English exactly like LVG, the dutch tend to be one of the most multi lingual people in the world.

You can speak a language well enough to get around socially but that is not enough to get around professionally imo.
So it might be he went to the "nuns" for an upgrade.

We do indeed have a name as it comes to languages, but personally i am more impressed by Scandinavian players coming to Holland an speak fluent Dutch after 6 months.

racso1975

I am the Switzerland of football supporters!!!! I support my club always have always will. However when it comes to Europe if we are not playing I will support ANY English team that is(This will never ever apply to the English Rugby team). Why? They are in the premiership and any English team doing well in Europe can only better the premiership.

I do not know a huge amount about the situation with Neville. But the little I do know I would highly suspect that he is not wanted there by the players. We can and have seen how players can get rid of a manager. Chelsea players did it, Utd players did it, Madrid etc etc.

astonaidan

inforfun wrote: »

You can speak a language well enough to get around socially but that is not enough to get around professionally imo.
So it might be he went to the "nuns" for an upgrade.

We do indeed have a name as it comes to languages, but personally i am more impressed by Scandinavian players coming to Holland an speak fluent Dutch after 6 months.

Youre probably right, I can converse with my girlfriend in Spanish, but yeah not sure I could work in Argentina just yet, so understandably the top up.
The Scandanavians are impressive alright, they even lose the accent, just was always amazed the way the dutch could just jump between German English Dutch and Flemish(Pretty much Dutch with a accent but still :pac:) at such ease
Kinda why I figured they have a lot of successful coaches outside of Holland

gimmick

I speak a bit of German and can understand some dutch. They seem to be pretty similar.

Augme

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It raises the question about how insightful his TV work may be though? When you have no coaching experience or haven't played the game at an elite level, it's not necessarily hard to present you with analysis that makes sense to you and which seems revelatory. If he can't analyse a team first hand and / or get corrections / adjustments across it does beg the question how much substance there is to his TV punditry.

Bear in mind the bar in that sphere is very, very low!

I think it just howlights the difference between being knowledgeable and being able to impart your knowledge onto others and how that's a very difficult skill in itself. It's like a teacher, you can be the smartest person and know all there is to know about a subject but that doesn't automatically mean you'll be good at teaching other people how to be good at it.

MD1990

Sky must be a bit annoyed too. When he goes back to them his punditry won't have the same effect imo.

Iused2likebusts

MD1990 wrote: »

Sky must be a bit annoyed too. When he goes back to them his punditry won't have the same effect imo.

It really shouldn't make a difference. The people that have been impressed by his punditry should still be impressed by his punditry. He breaks it down very well for people that aren't used to having football analysed like that. The players he is dealing with understand the intricacies of the game and are used to having video analysis with every manager they have dealt with. His punditry work was never going to have an impact negative or positive on his coaching career and likewise if he fails as a manager it should have no impact on him as a pundit.

Mr.Nice Guy

I like Neville and had hoped he would do well but it's been an unmitigated disaster, really.

The sad thing is I don't think he will want to return to punditry if/when he is sacked because it would be pretty humiliating. I can see him going into management in England in a lower tier and trying to get over the bad experience that way.

As others said, he was in a safe, comfortable position, he took a big gamble, and it's now backfired massively.