Gary Neville Valencia Manager - Sacked 30th March

That_Guy

Gary Neville at Valencia is like getting a Ferrari as your first car, crashing it and trying to drive it normally despite missing a wheel.

He should have gone for a Toyota Starlet. Yeah, they're a bit crap but once you've mastered that for a year or two, you can move on up to flashier cars provided you don't total this one too.

LuckyLloyd

Augme wrote: »

I think it just howlights the difference between being knowledgeable and being able to impart your knowledge onto others and how that's a very difficult skill in itself. It's like a teacher, you can be the smartest person and know all there is to know about a subject but that doesn't automatically mean you'll be good at teaching other people how to be good at it.

That's a good point.

monkey9

I don't think his stint at Valencia will have any impact on how he's perceived back on Sky if he ends back up there or at least it shouldn't. He's picked up a different experience to add to his knowledge. He might be a bit sheepish at first, but it was a brave move to make as a first job. I think it was the wrong move, at least start at lower level in England if needs be, but he'll certainly learn from it.

fullstop

Ordinary man wrote: »

Funny how neville is now a fool and a terrible manager but klopp (with a similar recent record) is still a great manager with a bad team

This is probably the most idiotic comparison I've seen in a while, and that's saying something!

Corholio

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

It really shouldn't make a difference. The people that have been impressed by his punditry should still be impressed by his punditry. He breaks it down very well for people that aren't used to having football analysed like that. The players he is dealing with understand the intricacies of the game and are used to having video analysis with every manager they have dealt with. His punditry work was never going to have an impact negative or positive on his coaching career and likewise if he fails as a manager it should have no impact on him as a pundit.

It's not going to have an impact on his punditry in one way but in another it will. People he criticises now have ammunition to send back to him which is something he has been free from mostly because of his impressive playing career, but it's fair game now imo. Also I don't think his analysis is all that ground breaking or anything, he's a good pundit but the whole talk about him as a pundit is way ott.

Optimalprimerib

I'd love to be behind the scenes at sky to see how much "punditry" they actually do. I reckon there is a huge operation and the likes of Gary Neville is just a face.

BoJack Horseman

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I'd love to be behind the scenes at sky to see how much "punditry" they actually do. I reckon there is a huge operation and the likes of Gary Neville is just a face.

Barry Glendinning spent a day behind the scenes at Sky Towers to see MNF being made....
interesting read:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/aug/23/gary-neville-rules-mnf-sky-football

weldoninhio

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I'd love to be behind the scenes at sky to see how much "punditry" they actually do. I reckon there is a huge operation and the likes of Gary Neville is just a face.

I'd imagine he does his own stuff. But I think the praise he and Carra get/got is over the top. I imagine any articulate ex-player would be able to do what they do. It only seems impressive because they are the first people to do this. The likes of MOTD is for the Everyman, so they can't go into in-depth detail, same with GoS.

Chardee MacDennis

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I'd love to be behind the scenes at sky to see how much "punditry" they actually do. I reckon there is a huge operation and the likes of Gary Neville is just a face.

i think it's very obvious you're wrong on that one, sorry...

galwaylad14

I liked him on sky and if he went back there I'd still watch him. He'd obviously get a bit of slagging about how bad he was at Valencia but after a week or two it'd be back to normal again.

I get the feeling he's a bit overly confident in his own abilities and he underestimated how tough a job being a football manager is. Obviously this is pure conjecture now but I'd say he thought it was just a matter of applying this analysis to a team of footballers and having them go out and get good results for him and everyone would hail him as a genius. I'd say he might have been guilty of believing his own hype a bit.

Similar enough in ways to Tim Sherwood when he started with a couple of wins at Spurs and was full of bluster about football management was full of bluffers who talk about how tough it is and completely over complicate it tactically. He said it was just a matter of going out playing a simple style and attacking from the off and no need to think any more about it.

galwaylad14

I liked him on sky and if he went back there I'd still watch him. He'd obviously get a bit of slagging about how bad he was at Valencia but after a week or two it'd be back to normal again.

I get the feeling he's a bit overly confident in his own abilities and he underestimated how tough a job being a football manager is. Obviously this is pure conjecture now but I'd say he thought it was just a matter of applying this analysis to a team of footballers and having them go out and get good results for him and everyone would hail him as a genius. I'd say he might have been guilty of believing his own hype a bit.

Similar enough in ways to Tim Sherwood when he started with a couple of wins at Spurs and was full of bluster about football management was full of bluffers who talk about how tough it is and completely over complicate it tactically. He said it was just a matter of going out playing a simple style and attacking from the off and no need to think any more about it.

Korat

Shouldn't have been too much of a surprise to see how things have gone for him. English managers have a terrible record abroad, it's not that great at home either. For a country obsessed with the game you'd think they'd be churning out and exporting quality coaches.

Utopia Parkway

MD1990 wrote: »

Sky must be a bit annoyed too. When he goes back to them his punditry won't have the same effect imo.

Reckon they'd still take him back almost immediately. Carragher would probably slag him off a bit on his first night back and then it would be forgotten about.

Mushy

There's a cool bit in the secret footballer book saying that Gary will definitely be thinking about giving management a shot, knowing it'll be a different kettle of fish but worth a shot. This is written before the appointment.

Obviously it's a big job, management is much harder than analysis. He has essentially failed at this job, but he may come back to it in England which may suit him more.

In no way does it undermine his punditry though. Fair play for giving it a shot though.

Harry Palmr

Korat wrote: »

Shouldn't have been too much of a surprise to see how things have gone for him. English managers have a terrible record abroad, it's not that great at home either. For a country obsessed with the game you'd think they'd be churning out and exporting quality coaches.

How many have gone abroad though

Hodgson - titles won abroad - Sweden with two clubs, Denmark,
Souness - two cup won abroad - Turkey
John Collins - title with Monaco
Terry Venebles - La Liga champions 1984-85
Robson - titles won abroad with PSV and Porto, cups with Barca
McClaren - title won abroad - Netherlands
Toshack - league title Spain, cups in Spain with three clubs and in Turkey and Azerbaijan
Ashley Westwood - title in Indian Super League
Stuart Baxter - four titles with Kaizer Chiefs in South Africa

rob316

It was a silly job to take in the first place and I really thought Gary was smarter than falling for it. A lower league English club, where he could build his reputation and gain experience would have been the smart choice, diving into one of the biggest clubs in Spain midseason was idiotic. His management reputation is in tatters before it even started.

Harry Palmr

He'd have flopped at Salford City.

Can't blame him for taking the job tbf.

A successful stint and it would have opened all sorts of possibilities.

Nice job in Sky to fall back on.

Korat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How many have gone abroad though

Hodgson - titles won abroad - Sweden with two clubs, Denmark,
Souness - two cup won abroad - Turkey
John Collins - title with Monaco
Terry Venebles - La Liga champions 1984-85
Robson - titles won abroad with PSV and Porto, cups with Barca
McClaren - title won abroad - Netherlands
Toshack - league title Spain, cups in Spain with three clubs and in Turkey and Azerbaijan
Ashley Westwood - title in Indian Super League
Stuart Baxter - four titles with Kaizer Chiefs in South Africa

Souness, Collins and Toshack aren't English so the only ones who won anything significant are Robson, Hodson, McClaren and Venables. Not a great haul considering their status in the game. Even now all the best jobs in England are going to foreign coaches, so they don't even rate themselves. They might have to bring in a Rooney rule for English coaches soon.

AdamD

Korat wrote: »

Souness, Collins and Toshack aren't English so the only ones who won anything significant are Robson, Hodson, McClaren and Venables. Not a great haul considering their status in the game. Even now all the best jobs in England are going to foreign coaches, so they don't even rate themselves. They might have to bring in a Rooney rule for English coaches soon.

To get the best jobs in England you typically need to 'have won something', which you can't really achieve in England without having one of the best jobs in the first place.

Turtwig

Valencia played rather well on Sunday. Wednesday was a complete farce. Now they must win this weekend and rather luckily it is an away game.

Gary was mad to take this job. Seeing his performance at Valencia I'd be reluctant to gamble any coaching job with him. He needs to win on Sunday and have his side regain some pride against Barca next week.

Strumms

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Can't blame him for taking the job tbf.

A successful stint and it would have opened all sorts of possibilities.

Nice job in Sky to fall back on.

Exactly, when on opportunity like this job presents itself you cannot say no. He backed his own ability and so far it's not working out. Failure is part of life sometimes and he would deserve more flack in my view if he had said no and was afraid of the challenge then going for it and giving it his best shot.

As a United fan I've taken a great interest in catching some Valencia games and to be honest I am sure Gary is making mistakes of his own but he really does seem to have a very rank ordinary squad bar a couple of players at his disposal.

Mezcita

Strumms wrote: »

As a United fan I've taken a great interest in catching some Valencia games and to be honest I am sure Gary is making mistakes of his own but he really does seem to have a very rank ordinary squad bar a couple of players at his disposal.

They finished fourth last season though.

Feck it. He gave it a go and it hasn't worked out.

~Rebel~

rob316 wrote: »

It was a silly job to take in the first place and I really thought Gary was smarter than falling for it. A lower league English club, where he could build his reputation and gain experience would have been the smart choice, diving into one of the biggest clubs in Spain midseason was idiotic. His management reputation is in tatters before it even started.

Is it though? I mean, it is in Spain, but does that really matter?

I'd say he saw this as a shot to nothing. If it worked out, great, major success that he could use to springboard himself into higher profile English jobs. If it didn't, no major harm done, pretty much back at square one.

In the grand scheme of things, he'll be considered for exactly the same English jobs he would have been had he not taken it. Everyone is aware the language and circumstances made it a very difficult one regardless, and that it'd be a completely different kettle of fish actually being able to chat to players.

I mean, his biggest strength is clear concise communication. That's what he doesn't have in Spain, and thats what he still brings to the table in England.

I would say most people will see this as a failed long shot, rather than any sort of proof that he can't be a manager..

Kirby

Mezcita wrote: »

They finished fourth last season though.
.

What does that really mean though? They got fourth last season. Sometimes squads overachieve.

United won their last league title with an average squad. Liverpool got 2nd with the same. Leicester are overachieving with their squad.

Now, they all deserved what they got and kudos for that. It was no fluke. But that doesn't mean its the norm. Reversion to the mean.

United finished way down the table the following season. As did Liverpool. And you would be a brave man to predict Leicester getting top 4 again next season. Conversely, Chelseas squad is much too good for their current position.

Perhaps this Valencia squad are really just good enough to be a mid table team? Last year they overachieve....this year they underachieve.

The Golden Miller

Kirby wrote: »

What does that really mean though? They got fourth last season. Sometimes squads overachieve.

United won their last league title with an average squad. Liverpool got 2nd with the same. Leicester are overachieving with their squad.

Now, they all deserved what they got and kudos for that. It was no fluke. But that doesn't mean its the norm. Reversion to the mean.

United finished way down the table the following season. As did Liverpool. And you would be a brave man to predict Leicester getting top 4 again next season. Conversely, Chelseas squad is much too good for their current position.

Perhaps this Valencia squad are really just good enough to be a mid table team? Last year they overachieve....this year they underachieve.

Valencia being top 4 is the norm

Kirby

Is it though? With this squad of players?

Last year they got 4th. But the previous year they got 8th. And look where they are now. The team that got 3rd spot several years running isn't the team that Neville has now.

The Golden Miller

Kirby wrote: »

Is it though? With this squad of players?

Last year they got 4th. But the previous year they got 8th. And look where they are now. The team that got 3rd spot several years running isn't the team that Neville has now.

Whatever way you want to look at it they are alot better than the results they are getting under Neville .

Corholio

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Can't blame him for taking the job tbf.

A successful stint and it would have opened all sorts of possibilities.

Nice job in Sky to fall back on.

I disagree there. I think you can blame him for taking it. A first time manager of a club with quite demanding fans with an already imbalanced team while not being able to speak the countries language are already problems from the off. I think sometimes managers should be street smart about what positions they take rather than the 'you couldn't turn it down' excuse. A successful stint would, as you said, open possibilities but a failed one should have effects too in management. Sometimes certain ex players get free passes on failed managerial jobs than others who may be seen as less popular.

Oranage2

Augme wrote: »

I think it just howlights the difference between being knowledgeable and being able to impart your knowledge onto others and how that's a very difficult skill in itself. It's like a teacher, you can be the smartest person and know all there is to know about a subject but that doesn't automatically mean you'll be good at teaching other people how to be good at it.

Is he even that knowledgeable?

I'm asking I don't know, but on Sky he had all the weekend to prepare and most likely other analysis to brain storm with.

He was more like a weather man reading just reading queue cards, when he had to step up to meteorologist he was found out

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

Is he even that knowledgeable?

I'm asking I don't know, but on Sky he had all the weekend to prepare and most likely other analysis to brain storm with.

He was more like a weather man reading just reading queue cards, when he had to step up to meteorologist he was found out

Plus he benefitted because most pundits are ex footballers and thus inarticulate dullards.

He was...not as bad...

In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man eye. etc.

inforfun

Deleted User wrote: »

Plus he benefitted because most pundits are ex footballers and thus inarticulate dullards.

He was...not as bad...

In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man eye. etc.

This.

When this fad started many years ago, i had Cruijff and Van Hanegem on Dutch tv as pundits/analysts. While they both have their own interpretation of "Dutch" they were so enjoyable and interesting to listen too and watch them explain stuff.
Now i have to listen to Michael Owen.

On sky/bt it seems enough to have played for a "big" team and have retired and you get the job

Francie Barrett

Beaten again today. Surely the axe will fall soon on this whole embarrassing debacle.

MD1990

He's gone. Strong rumours in Spain that Juande Ramos will take over. Good apointment too.

Kirby

I wonder will he come straight back to sky or take a break until the next season.

monkey9

Neville should take over a Championship club when he gets the chance and see what he can do from there. Same goes for Tim Sherwood as well, actually. That Valencia job was always going to be a huge task.

kfallon

Don't think they'll miss him tbh

https://twitter.com/footbalIfights/status/696389952087683077

Charlie19

https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/696377904360464384

Bret Hart

If they don't get rid of him ASAP,relegation is a real possibility.Under Neville there's not a team in this league,they look like beating under him.
There only 4 points above the relegation zone.I'd imagine,he'll get the sack this week and Rafa will then return.

rob316

Coming to the stage where they need to hit the panic button and get rafa in till at least the end of the season.

What is Peter Lim playing at this is too big of a club to go down.

Jaysus that pic of him sitting in the bus with the fans outside

Surely hes gone. Agree with the sentiment that he should try his luck with a championship side. This one was way too soon for him I'm afraid

Decuc500

Good win tonight for Valencia. Neville finally got a bit of a break.

Andersonisgod

Interesting to note that Pako Ayestaran (the former Liverpool assistant) will be joining Neville's staff, he will be the assistant coach.

~Rebel~

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Interesting to note that Pako Ayestaran (the former Liverpool assistant) will be joining Neville's staff, he will be the assistant coach.

Could be a blessing or a curse. Great man to have on hand to turn things around, but a very experienced, successful head to be looking over your shoulder if things stay troubled.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Pako taking Neville's place at some point.

cunnifferous

All Hail the new football manager messiah (Pako Ayestaran)

davycc

4-0 up in under 30mins tonight valencia finally look like clicking

davycc

5 now

Toobz

davycc wrote: »

4-0 up in under 30mins tonight valencia finally look like clicking

They've been playing some nice stuff the last few matches. Hopefully this is the end of the transition for Neville and they can kick on.

astonaidan

Ah Gary I knew youd come good eventually, you controlled them dots on sky to well to fail

StringerBell

Hopefully this is the start of a good run for him