Shooting in California

ceadaoin.

kneemos wrote: »

Very odd that there was three of them if it wasn't a terrorist attack.
They would surely have known they'd be caught and killed.

I find the workplace dispute thing very hard to believe. How likely is it that someone had a fight at work and within hours managed to get 2 (or 3?) accomplices willing to murder people with them, probably sacrificing their own lives in the process, as well as guns, pipe bombs and tactical gear. I'd say not very. This was clearly pre planned. Maybe it was an employee but I don't think a grudge against a colleague was the motivation.

wil

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I find the workplace dispute thing very hard to believe. How likely is it that someone had a fight at work and within hours managed to get 2 (or 3?) accomplices willing to murder people with them, probably sacrificing their own lives in the process, as well as guns, pipe bombs and tactical gear. I'd say not very. This was clearly pre planned. Maybe it was an employee but I don't think a grudge against a colleague was the motivation.

This is not America.

We don't know yet who was at the centre except it was "county personnel" at a holiday party, renting the venue from the disability services centre. Seems an unlikely target for terrorism.
Briefing starting now imminent - looking for sunglasses???

PressRun

A revenge plot is a possibility, I guess. It does seem highly organized, whatever the motive.

Witchie

wil wrote: »

This is not America.


Briefing starting now imminent - looking for sunglasses???

No she said that they found a pair of sunglasses and was wondering who owned them.

The_Mac

"We're not sure if it was a terrorist act but we'll go down that road if the evidence points to it."

"BUT COULD IT BE A TERRORIST ATTACK?!"

****ing outstanding journalism there lads.

Lone Stone

That's nearly word for word what an Fbi guy said on the news he was like might be! Might not be just say u don't know ffs

kneemos

wil wrote: »

Seems an unlikely target for terrorism.




Any roomful of people will do.

PressRun

So it could be terrorism or it could be related to a dispute?

People carrying out what appears to be a highly organized shooting while wearing body armour, using assault weapons, and potentially having bombs seems to point quite clearly to terrorism of some kind, rather than some folks lashing out after getting into a row.

wil

For a briefing by informed officers they seem to not know quite a lot.

The_Mac

wil wrote: »

For a briefing by informed officers they seem to not know quite a lot.

They obviously know some things but investigations take some time. You can't throw tidbits to the media, they'll eat it up and present it as the true case. I mean for **** sake CNN are speculating over what could have happened rather than wait for the truth, if they released any info atm that would be reported as what definitely happened.

Paramite Pie

Deleted User wrote: »

Hispanic male, shaved head, orange shirt, camo pants. Police are trying to apprehend on East Briar Dr.

Guess what. Not ISIS.

Not the dreaded White Man either. Too many people rushing to speculate either way.

However I think both ISIS and lone-white gunmen were fair game for speculation given recent events.

kneemos

wil wrote: »

For a briefing by informed officers they seem to not know quite a lot.

I could I have answered more than your one in the previous press conference.

InTheTrees

PressRun wrote: »

People carrying out what appears to be a highly organized shooting while wearing body armour, using assault weapons, and potentially having bombs seems to point quite clearly to terrorism of some kind, rather than some folks lashing out after getting into a row.

Or it could "point quite clearly" to a drug gang. For which southern California is well know.

Billy86

beks101 wrote: »

That's the crazy thing, it's not though. In terms of threats in their various videos and online propaganda, the US is right at the top of its hit list.

I think that's actually Israel and Iran.




Tragic incident this, but it really is so common over there that I can't help but find myself becoming increasingly desensitised and just not even surprised when something like this happens. I barely even raised an eyebrow when I read it earlier on.

kneemos

InTheTrees wrote: »

Or it could "point quite clearly" to a drug gang. For which southern California is well know.

Why would they shoot up a social services meeting?

ceadaoin.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Or it could "point quite clearly" to a drug gang. For which southern California is well know.

One of the dead suspects was a woman. I'm not sure if that is typical of drug gangs?

Paramite Pie

PressRun wrote: »

So it could be terrorism or it could be related to a dispute?

People carrying out what appears to be a highly organized shooting while wearing body armour, using assault weapons, and potentially having bombs seems to point quite clearly to terrorism of some kind, rather than some folks lashing out after getting into a row.

Were the targets disabled people? It was a clinic for the disabled after all.

Possibly some weirdo Darwinian kill the "weak" motive -- that'd be new territory.

PressRun

InTheTrees wrote: »

Or it could "point quite clearly" to a drug gang. For which southern California is well know.

What business would a drug gang have in a center for mentally disabled people?

Tbh, it sounded like the cops have a fair idea of what's up, they're just not willing to go into specifics with the media yet.

They were saying that they didn't know if the person who left the meeting/party after the dispute was involved in the shooting or not. If they weren't, that person should probably make that known to the police.

InTheTrees

PressRun wrote: »

What business would a drug gang have in a center for mentally disabled people?

They attacked some kind of meeting of political people in a conference centre attached to the school.

Manic Moran

ceadaoin. wrote: »

One of the dead suspects was a woman. I'm not sure if that is typical of drug gangs?

Who knows? Husband/wife I guess isn't impossible (I seem to recall an attempt at such in Las Vegas earlier in the year), but successful spree shootings for the sake of it by more than one person hasn't happened since Colombine, what, 17 years ago?

Overheal wrote: »

Well they shouldn't be regular patrol vehicles either. They need to be specific to SWAT. And besides it wasn't a BearCat in Fergusson people took gumption with, it was a somewhat larger MRAP, seen in a lot of youtube just cruising around the streets like a beat car.

Difference is that although the Bearcat is purpose built, it also costs police departments over $200,000, and the MRAP does almost the same job for a $2,000 transfer fee and the cost of the lights and blue paint. Many police departments don't have a quarter million lying around spare to spend on a little-used vehicle.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Amazing kit to be just available. How often would they need a shield like that?

The local turn of phrase is "It's better to have and not need, than need and not have"

fed up sick and tired

Sayeed Farook (sp) named as suspect, and his brother. Named by NBC. Plus unnamed female.

Woman and one of the men dead.

Amazingfun

Multiple sources from multiple agencies identified one of the three attackers at the resource center to NBC News as Syed Farook. No other information was available, but a knowledgeable source said another member of the trio is believed to be Farook's brother.

The identity of the woman was unknown.

David Bowdich, the FBI's assistant director in Los Angeles, said the incident was being regarded as "possibly terrorism." He wouldn't elaborate.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/authorities-respond-report-shooting-san-bernardino-california-n472976

wil

kneemos wrote: »

Why would they shoot up a social services meeting?

it is reported as a Christmas party for San Bernardino County's Department of Public Health at a venue rented in the Inland Regional Centre. The centre itself serves people with developmental disabilities.

murpho999

This is starting to look more like a terrorist attack rather than a crazed mass shooting (Not that there is much difference really).

Amazingfun

Farooq Saeed worked at the Center.He is an Islamic refugee from Pakistan. There was an Argument over Christmas before the attack.

— DJ Lewis (@umpire43) December 3, 2015

Good grief, let's hope this wasn't what set this insanity off.

Anyways this site, as always, has loads of info:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/12/02/serious-shooting-incident-san-bernardino-report-20-victims-1-to-3-heavily-armedequipped-gunman/#more-109258

Overheal

I wouldn't trust social media for a couple days on this. I've heard he's an American, I've heard he's a refugee, I would believe any of it as much as I would have believed that the Planned Parenthood shooter was a leftist transgendered registered-independent.

NTM wrote:

Difference is that although the Bearcat is purpose built, it also costs police departments over $200,000, and the MRAP does almost the same job for a $2,000 transfer fee and the cost of the lights and blue paint. Many police departments don't have a quarter million lying around spare to spend on a little-used vehicle.

Street-use conversion is closer to 20k, but that doesn't refute the point its cheap to acquire.

ceadaoin.

According to the latest press conference, Sayed Farook and Tashfeen Malik are the shooters. Farook is US born, no info on his wife/girlfriend Malik other than he met her in Saudi Arabia after chatting online and brought her back with him.

I'm reading they have a 6 month old child who they left with his parents this morning, saying they had a doctors appointment.

take everything

ceadaoin. wrote: »

According to the latest press conference, Sayed Farook and Tashfeen Malik are the shooters. Farook is US born, no info on his wife/girlfriend Malik other than he met her in Saudi Arabia after chatting online and brought her back with him.

I'm reading they have a 6 month old child who they left with his parents this morning, saying they had a doctors appointment.

It's chilling how the perpetrators in these attacks go from seemingly normal human beings to mass murderers with relatives frequently claiming absolute shock at their actions.

Amazingfun

His father :

" Farook’s father was shocked to learn of his son’s possible involvement in the attack.

“I haven’t heard anything,” the elder Syed Farook told the Daily News. “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”

His neighbour:

Longtime neighbors in Riverside were shocked to hear Farook could be involved with such a brutal attack.

“He was quiet but always polite,” Maria Gutierrez told The News. “Maybe two years ago he became more religious. He grew a beard and started to wear religious clothing. The long shirt that’s like a dress and the cap on his head.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471

ceadaoin.

take everything wrote: »

It's chilling how the perpetrators in these attacks go from seemingly normal human beings to mass murderers with relatives frequently claiming absolute shock at their actions.

It's just so senseless. I can't imagine leaving my child knowing that I was more than likely going to my death, and willingly too. They had everything to live for but instead chose to abandon their baby and become mass murderers. Its unfathomable.

Panrich

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's just so senseless. I can't imagine leaving my child knowing that I was more than likely going to my death, and willingly too. They had everything to live for but instead chose to abandon their baby and become mass murderers. Its unfathomable.

/Religion

Orangebrigade

So it was a terrorist attack like I said. Seemed obvious then and even more so now.

smurgen

Absolutely terrible.apparently one of the shooters worked in the clinic they shoot up,sounds like there was an argument and the killer came back armed.what is wrong with people at all?worst comes to the worst you move area and start a new.Rip to the victims.

Eugene Norman

Orangebrigade wrote: »

So it was a terrorist attack like I said. Seemed obvious then and even more so now.

Safe today it was terrorism anyway.

Did they apprehend the third person?

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did they apprehend the third person?

Unclear if there was a third afaik.

I hope there wasn't as it would mean that they've got them all. Wonder what the deal was with the Hispanic with a bald head.

Custardpi

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope there wasn't as it would mean that they've got them all. Wonder what the deal was with the Hispanic with a bald head.

Could be completely unrelated. At any particular time there's stuff happening which might look like it's related to a crime/major event but actually turns out to be nothing to do with it.

arayess

kneemos wrote: »

Unclear if there was a third afaik.

they got a 3rd person but as unsure if they were involved .
news said they were picked up near the car of the couple

Custardpi

It will be interesting to see if any claims of responsibility from a terrorist group are made or if a "martyrdom" video emerges. Could this just be a lone wolf attack with the wife/gf along for help? Still not clear what the motive is, though you can make some guesses.

Hurtbuthealing

shocking tragedy

arayess

arayess wrote: »

they got a 3rd person but as unsure if they were involved .
news said they were picked up near the car of the couple

I know they detained one person relatively early on, but they weren't sure if that was related. And then they kept going on about someone in camo pants and that they were jumping over a wall. There was a shooting at a mall that was found unrelated and was a parole violator

lazza14

suspects named

Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27

:rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34991855

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A row at a christmas party, so you go home, get the guns and murder people. Maniacs.

lazza14

take everything wrote: »

It's chilling how the perpetrators in these attacks go from seemingly normal human beings to mass murderers with relatives frequently claiming absolute shock at their actions.

But whats the common factor here ?

Religious extremism maybe ?

The wests tolerance of Religious extremism ??

lazza14

lazza14 wrote: »

suspects named

Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27

:rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34991855

What?

Anyway reading back over the Reddit live thread updates - the FBI seemed certain that a third suspect was involved, but now local officials are thinking just the two.

The two in the car were wearing tactical clothing.

Custardpi

Deleted User wrote: »

What?

Anyway reading back over the Reddit live thread updates - the FBI seemed certain that a third suspect was involved, but now local officials are thinking just the two.

The two in the car were wearing tactical clothing.

You can bet the conspiracy nuts will have a field day with that angle.

Hurtbuthealing

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

shocking tragedy

I accept the sentiment but for me, it isn't shocking in the slightest.

The only remotely shocking thing is the fact that the eagles of death metal have a song with these lyrics. And it's only shocking because it's a mad unlucky coincidence.

Yes we're freaks but they can't touch us out west
In San Bernardino


Don't know if that was already posted here.

Jelle1880

Orangebrigade wrote: »

So it was a terrorist attack like I said. Seemed obvious then and even more so now.

Even if it was a white guy it's still terrorism.

After the wanker that shot up the Planned Parenthood clinic a few days back people asked the right question: Why is that not terrorism but if it's an Arab it's immediately classed as such ?

Both are acts of terror and should be seen as such.

conorhal

Lilith Rhythmic Racism wrote: »

A row at a christmas party, so you go home, get the guns and murder people. Maniacs.

It would seem that the facts are now at odds with that narrative. This massacre has an air of pre-planned about it. Pipe bombs were thrown and making those would have taken a fair bit of preparation. It's possible I suppose that the row at the office party may have accelerated a planned attack or perhaps changed the target.
The perpetrators may well have been planning a Paris Style attack and at the last minute thought 'well, those **** at my office are as good a soft target as any'.



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