Flight issues related to info of visa through America.

Frank Bullitt

Hi all,

This is a long winded one, and not expecting much out of it, but thought its worth a shot to ask in here about my pretty awful experience today.

I was to fly home today, I'm living in Vancouver so flying here, to Chicago, and then Dublin. I bought from Flight hub and got a really good deal on flights.

To go through the states, you need as ESTA visa which you can get online, when I tried to do that last night it says it needs an e-passport to do this. So on arrival at the airport, I went to the kiosk/help desk to do it there after being pointed in that directed by one of the staff, I started and again it asked for an e-passport.

My passport is valid and was issued before the chips were installed to the passports. When I showed the staff member at the kiosk, he said I would have to go to the US consulate downtown, which opened at 9am, my flight left at 6:45. So from there I was told I would not be issued a boarding pass as I didn't have the ESTA visa, so basically I wouldn't be flying. I called flighthub, who then were able to get me on the flight tomorrow morning doing the same route, I thought this would possible as I would get to the consulate and also get the ESTA, it takes 20 minutes to do online either at home or in the airport, so I figured it would be a similar process with some wait time.

I then went home and then to the consulate where they told me, that the wait time for a meeting was 2 weeks, and then issuing the actual visa was a further week. So 3 weeks in total, as opposed to 20 minutes if I had an e-passport. I have read through my email and I can't see anything warning me about needing an e-passport. The flight I was rescheduled for would then be a no-go due to going through the states again.

So, from there I went home, had a good ol breakdown and then called flighthub, who were quite helpful, but due to me changing yet again, the fees for changing went up and up.

My flight costs basically doubled in a few hours, all down to me not being able to attain an ESTA. I have a valid passport, and was there in ample time in order to get the ESTA, but was then unable to get one due to the system only taking e-passports.

It basically comes to me not being able to board my flight, due to not getting a visa which wouldn't accept my valid travel document. There was no warning of needing to book 3 weeks in advance to get a visa for a 3 hour stop off.

Like I said, I'm not expecting much from this, but thought I would ask some folks here to see if they think or see otherwise. I don't want the full fare back or anything like that, but the penalty fees were $632.00 and the exchange fare difference was more than that again.

I feel like I should complain for sure, there was and is a severe lack of info regarding this, I received a good few emails and nothing mentioned the ESTA requiring an e-passport and then failing that, me requiring to book an appointment.

Thanks, rant over.

Stheno

What do you mean by an e-passport? My passport was issued in 2012 and worked fine online to get an esta a couple of years ago.

dudara

You would have received plenty of warning that you need an ESTA for the U.S. It's up to you to make sure that you had a valid ESTA in place. The ESTA website has all relevant information. Don't think you have any cause for comeback with flighthub.

Stheno

dudara wrote: »

You would have received plenty of warning that you need an ESTA for the U.S. It's up to you to make sure that you had a valid ESTA in place. The ESTA website has all relevant information. Don't think you have any cause for comeback with flighthub.

Agree on this, last time I booked flights via the States the ESTA was nearly dealt with before the flights

dudara

Stheno wrote: »

What do you mean by an e-passport? My passport was issued in 2012 and worked fine online to get an esta a couple of years ago.

A machine readable passport with biometrics. Passports of this type have a little symbol on the cover. All recently issued passports will be of this type.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport

Frank Bullitt

Im not saying that I wasn't expecting the ESTA, I know that you require one to go through there, hence why I thought it would be sorted in the airport when I went to the kiosk with my passport which is valid.

Mine was issued 2 months before the e passport became standard in 2006.

dudara

Gintonious wrote: »

Im not saying that I wasn't expecting the ESTA, I know that you require one to go through there, hence why I thought it would be sorted in the airport when I went to the kiosk with my passport which is valid.

Mine was issued 2 months before the e passport became standard in 2006.

In general, you apply for the ESTA on the website, in advance of travelling. I've never heard of one being issued at the airport (perhaps it's possible, I don't know).

Frank Bullitt

Did some digging on the ESTA site and it does state:

The passport must have a machine-readable zone on the biographic page.
The passport must be an electronic passport with a digital chip containing biometric information about the passport owner.

I guess thats that so, doesn't say anything about the alternative though, if your passport isn't electronic.

Frank Bullitt

It does also say this.

Have a valid passport lawfully issued to you by a Visa Waiver Program country

Dodge

ESTA is pre clearance. It isn't a Visa.

If you can't apply for ESTA, then you must apply for a visa. That responsibility is solely down to the traveller

For reference you could have driven accross rhe border without ESTA

Frank Bullitt

Dodge wrote: »

ESTA is pre clearance. It isn't a Visa.

If you can't apply for ESTA, then you must apply for a visa. That responsibility is solely down to the traveller

For reference you could have driven accross rhe border without ESTA

I had driven across the border, the visa I got then was not ESTA though, if I understand correctly?

endacl

Gintonious wrote: »

Im not saying that I wasn't expecting the ESTA, I know that you require one to go through there, hence why I thought it would be sorted in the airport when I went to the kiosk with my passport which is valid.

Mine was issued 2 months before the e passport became standard in 2006.

You presumed the ESTA system would accommodate you and your travel plans? A little research beforehand would have saved you all this hassle...

Victor

Why does one need an ETSA if one isn't entering the USA?

dudara

Victor wrote: »

Why does one need an ETSA if one isn't entering the USA?

The OP was flying home to Ireland, from Canada, via Chicago, hence the ESTA.

Nichard Dixon

No flight booking gives warning for all classes of passport holder, nor could it, so this is not a consumer issue.
You have no right to refund of any sort.

What perhaps you could have done was go to the land crossing, get a paper I94W for a week, go back to Canada and fly. Best thing would to have booked a flight from Seattle or travelled without visiting the US.

L1011

We stopped issuing non biometric passports over nine years ago. When added to the required validity time this leaves very few people who can have a non biometric one (I'm one, though). Can't expect them to accommodate us considering they refused far longer volumes of non scannable passports before

ohnonotgmail

I don't want the full fare back or anything like that, but the penalty fees were $632.00 and the exchange fare difference was more than that again.

It is not clear who you think is liable for refunding this money to you.

endofrainbow

ESTA's must be applied for at least 72 hours before departure to the US. The onus is on the passenger to ensure that he/she has the proper documentation to enter/transit a country.

Personally, I would have applied for the ESTA BEFORE booking flights and that way any issues would have become apparent before purchasing.

Victor

dudara wrote: »

The OP was flying home to Ireland, from Canada, via Chicago, hence the ESTA.

But not entering the USA, only transiting.

Stheno

Victor wrote: »

But not entering the USA, only transiting.

You still need an ESTA even if you are only transiting, I had the same issue going to Canada a couple of years ago went via Newark and needed an ESTA

endofrainbow

Victor wrote: »

But not entering the USA, only transiting.

United States does not have an *in transit* . All arriving passengers are treated as though they are entering the country.

munchkin_utd

from the US website, you dont need an e passport if it has a digitally printed photo and was issued "between 10/26/05 and 10/25/06." which surely is the case with your passport ?

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html

Dodge

Thats for the visa Waiver, the ESTA has it's own rules

Miaireland

Sorry but wasn't there something about ESTA years ago saying that they would not accept the electronically read passports. I know before going to the States a while ago I renewed my passport about two years early before going to the States.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

But not entering the USA, only transiting.

One single airport in the US has transit facilities - LAX, for Air NZ onward passengers to London. At all other airports you are entering the USA.

Miaireland wrote: »

Sorry but wasn't there something about ESTA years ago saying that they would not accept the electronically read passports. I know before going to the States a while ago I renewed my passport about two years early before going to the States.

They refused the old format passport here, requiring a machine readable (optical scan). We brought that in in the early 2000s and there were about three years of the old type around when they refused to take them as far as I remember

Now the issue is with the chip, which we started putting in in October 2006. I don't know when they demanded them but its more recently than May 2014 as I used my old type then. Considering you need three months validity this means currently there's about 8 months worth of passports still valid and in date without that chip - not a huge amount.

Frank Bullitt

endacl wrote: »

You presumed the ESTA system would accommodate you and your travel plans? A little research beforehand would have saved you all this hassle...

The first reference to a passport on the ESTA site is to have a valid passport, which I currently do. I had no other reason to think otherwise as to why my valid passport would not cause an issue like this.

No flight booking gives warning for all classes of passport holder, nor could it

On the ESTA site it does, so there is a way for this to be implemented when entering a passport online.

ohnonotgmail

Gintonious wrote: »

The first reference to a passport on the ESTA site is to have a valid passport, which I currently do. I had no other reason to think otherwise as to why my valid passport would not cause an issue like this.

and this is what it says is a valid passport :

Visa Waiver Program requirements are:

• The passport must have a machine-readable zone on the biographic page.
• The passport must be an electronic passport with a digital chip containing biometric information about the passport owner.

Gintonious wrote: »

On the ESTA site it does, so there is a way for this to be implemented when entering a passport online.

The obligation is on you to ensure that you have the correct visa and travel documents.

rainbow kirby

munchkin_utd wrote: »

from the US website, you dont need an e passport if it has a digitally printed photo and was issued "between 10/26/05 and 10/25/06." which surely is the case with your passport ?

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html

Had no problems this summer with getting an ESTA with a February 2006 issued passport.

awec

You do not need a biometric passport to get an ESTA.

I got an ESTA in March this year with a 9.5 year old pre-biometric passport.

Machine readable just means it has to have the series of chevrons / lines at the bottom of the photo page.


OPs passport was valid and could have got an ESTA no problem. Though you have to do it at least 48 hours before you travel (which is also clear on the site).

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gintonious

Gintonious wrote: »

Did some digging on the ESTA site and it does state:
I guess thats that so, doesn't say anything about the alternative though, if your passport isn't electronic.

My OH had the same problem a good few years ago. Missed his flight to the USA because his Passport wasn't machine readable. An expensive lesson! At that time we used fill in a green form on the Plane and hand it up before we landed. The ESTA replaces this.