Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

Bob24

TireeTerror wrote: »

I want to amaze people by paying for goods with my phone before it becomes commonplace!

Too late ;-) I have been doing it with ApplePay for sometime and many of sales assistants already seem to be used to it (maybe because a number of people are already using Apple/Android Pay with foreign cards).

N26 should definitely prioritise supporting those payment methods though ... since their marketing is all about being a new and more modern mobile banking experience it would be a shame for them to be lagging behind my 200 years old brick and mortar bank for too long ;-)

Abominable JoMan

Bob24 wrote: »

One of the reasons I was looking at N26 is that I see they are planning to launch saving accounts, which seems interesting to me as I don't want all my Euros in the same country and German doesn't seem like a bad place to put some (I am also assuming if the have a bank licence and are part of the national German bank grantee scheme I can probably trust them with some of my savings).

On that, the possibility of a savings account with them was an attraction to me, sort of because the German aspect. But anyways, any indications yet as to them making progress or move towards this? Even in Germany alone?
And when even a mention of overdraft etc coming to Ireland?

Bob24

Abominable JoMan wrote: »

On that, the possibility of a savings account with them was an attraction to me, sort of because the German aspect. But anyways, any indications yet as to them making progress or move towards this? Even in Germany alone?

The website just says it is in the works. I suspect this is something they needed their banking licence to introduce; it will probably take at least a few months to actually launch the product but hopefully we will see some movement now that it has been granted.

Yggr of Asgard

Abominable JoMan wrote: »

On that, the possibility of a savings account with them was an attraction to me, sort of because the German aspect. But anyways, any indications yet as to them making progress or move towards this? Even in Germany alone?
And when even a mention of overdraft etc coming to Ireland?

With the ongoing low interest policy of the ECB I don't think a savings account is going to be introduced soon.

In Germany they have started with an investment account and promptly got criticized for too high fees.

As to overdraft for Ireland, how would they calculate your credit risk and the cost to chase up the debt if you don't pay. In Germany it's very easy and mostly automatic if you default, the legal process can be done online with a couple of mouse clicks and there is extensive credit reporting going on.

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

With the ongoing low interest policy of the ECB I don't think a savings account is going to be introduced soon.

Even though interest rates are low, saving accounts are a pretty basic and must have product for a bank. Maybe I don't understand their business model but if they want to be seen as a serious banking alternative (and not just a gadget additional account for tech geeks) I think they need that.

TireeTerror

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There are loads of complaints about the new cards and NFC functionality.

Contact support.

I'm in the queue....nearly 2 hours wait time.

Thats what comes with a free account though. I suppose at least Im not having to listen to music and have my phone used, I can carry on doing what Im doing and wait for live chat.

The J Stands for Jay

forzacalcio wrote: »

Literally spent about 6 hours today trying to verify myself, kept getting cut off Network error when it was my turn. Does anyone here use this as their day to day bank?

Ive been using it as my only current account since February. I've never had need to contact them since verifying my passport. I love not having to go into a branch to do things (I'll hate you forever PTSB), and I'd been going pretty much cashless for the year before. I can't think of any situation where I'd need to make a cash deposit.

Abominable JoMan

Yeah that's actually a very fair point about the overdraft procedure.

And yeah also understand about the European wide low interest rates etc, but I was thinking with them acquiring their own banking license etc, it's surely a good sign that they may be putting something into motion as well in the background. I imagine though that they're probably more distracted at the minute to this expanding of their market across Europe and securing more customers.

The J Stands for Jay

Bob24 wrote: »

Btw Yggr of Asgard if you don't mind me asking what kind of interest rates are available in Germany and are there any tax liabilities on the interests for some residing broad?

On of the reasons I was looking at N26 is that I see they are planning to launch saving accounts, which seems interesting to me as I don't want all my Euros in the same country and German doesn't seem like a bad place to put some (I am also assuming if the have a bank licence and are part of the national German bank grantee scheme I can probably trust them with some of my savings).

You could look into raisin, they offer deposit accounts from all over Europe to Irish customers.

Bob24

McGaggs wrote: »

You could look into raisin, they offer deposit accounts from all over Europe to Irish customers.

Thanks I'll have a look into it.

ahbell

TireeTerror wrote: »

I'm in the queue....nearly 2 hours wait time.

Thats what comes with a free account though. I suppose at least Im not having to listen to music and have my phone used, I can carry on doing what Im doing and wait for live chat.

Let us know how long it eventually takes you to get through please. I've tried the last couple of nights but gave up after less than an hour both times.

JTMan

I still have not a got a new card in the post. Anyone else in this position?

Abominable JoMan wrote: »

On that, the possibility of a savings account with them was an attraction to me, sort of because the German aspect. But anyways, any indications yet as to them making progress or move towards this? Even in Germany alone?

Pete Thiel invests in both N26 and also Deposit Solutions. N26 have said that their savings products will "be in the fintech space". Deposit Solutions offer the ability to resell their product. My bet is that N26 will resell the Deposit Solutions products. Deposit Solutions already operate under the Zinspilot brand in Germany and elsewhere as well as via 3rd parties. Hence, the products that you can see on ZinsPilot.de might be close to what N26 offer when they launch their deposit offering.

Abominable JoMan

JTMan wrote: »

Pete Thiel invests in both N26 and also Deposit Solutions. N26 have said that their savings products will "be in the fintech space". Deposit Solutions offer the ability to resell their product. My bet is that N26 will resell the Deposit Solutions products. Deposit Solutions already operate under the Zinspilot brand in Germany and elsewhere as well as via 3rd parties. Hence, the products that you can see on ZinsPilot.de might be close to what N26 offer when they launch their deposit offering.

Excellent spot that. I'll keep an eye on Zinspilot so, I believe there has been mention of them coming to Ireland in the past?

JTMan

Abominable JoMan wrote: »

I believe there has been mention of them coming to Ireland in the past?

Deposit Solutions have talked about European expansion to selected European markets. Deposit Solutions, via ZinsPilot, operate a marketplace for savings very like Raisin does who operate here.

fbradyirl

Anyone here tried Raisin for savings as mentioned earlier? How do you find them? Rates look much better than AIB!

FYI I have also noticed the new N26 card is flaky with NFC. But it will work if held the right way. I guess the cards are made of cheaper material than the older ones.

jester77

Anyone having issues with the Payments Abroad flag since changing over?

Google Play and Netflix now decline online payments unless I enable this flag. Previously this was not the case.

prmcnamara

I just got my N26 Black card. Will my other card stop working?

dohouch

jester77 wrote: »

Anyone having issues with the Payments Abroad flag since changing over?

Google Play and Netflix now decline online payments unless I enable this flag. Previously this was not the case.

Have had a myriad of problems with foreign payments after change-over. Have submitted 3 support request no replies. Waiting 10 days.:mad:

bennyx_o

prmcnamara wrote: »

I just got my N26 Black card. Will my other card stop working?

When did you start the transfer? I done mine on 10th November but still haven't received any card

prmcnamara

bennyx_o wrote: »

When did you start the transfer? I done mine on 10th November but still haven't received any card

I signed up on Nov 19th. I upgraded to N26 Black on the same day. I got the standard MasterCard on Tuesday and the N26 Black one today.

Bob24

OK, I just signed-up to give it a try. I can see here customer service seems to be lacking once you are a customer, but I have to say registering on the website and going through the ID check process was very quick and easy (especially knowing you are opening an account with a foreign bank). Their app which can remote control each of the 2 cameras of the phone, activate the flash for the guy on demand, and take pictures whenever he wants to during the video chat is pretty neat.

soirish

Bob24 wrote: »

Their app which can remote control each of the 2 cameras of the phone, activate the flash for the guy on demand, and take pictures whenever he wants to during the video chat is pretty neat.

Makes me wonder what else they control on my phone.

jester77

soirish wrote: »

Makes me wonder what else they control on my phone.

Nothing to be paranoid about, you have to explicitly grant every app permissions to access or control data or hardware on your phone.

Bob24

soirish wrote: »

Makes me wonder what else they control on my phone.

Actually your post prompted me to review what authorisation I have granted to the app in iOS. Disabling camera and microphone access for now as it doesn't seem to need it for anything but ID check.

jester77

Bob24 wrote: »

Actually your post prompted me to review what authorisation I have granted to the app in iOS. Disabling camera and microphone access for now as it doesn't seem to need it for anything but ID check.

Camera is needed for attaching photos to a purchase, I use this for attaching receipts to large purchases. Handy if you ever need to check warranty issues.

Zagato

jester77 wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

Actually your post prompted me to review what authorisation I have granted to the app in iOS. Disabling camera and microphone access for now as it doesn't seem to need it for anything but ID check.

Camera is needed for attaching photos to a purchase, I use this for attaching receipts to large purchases. Handy if you ever need to check warranty issues.

That sounds like quite a useful feature actually.

Bob24

Does anyone know where the address under account settings / personal information / legal address come from and what it is used for?

I can see this is not the address I input during registration (which is listed as your address in the app or shipping address on the website), and I guess that "legal address" was read by their representative from my ID document during the ID check process. The thing is he didn't mention to me this would be used and while i can get mail sent their, it is not my actual place of residence and is in another country. So I am wondering what the billing address for the payment card will be and whether I am under Irish T&Cs (Ireland is my actual country of residence) or T&Cs for the address they got from my ID document.

Also is there a support email address? I might want a written confirmation from them on this but while I see people her have referred to support emails I can't find the address on their website (either I am looking at the wrong place or they have removed it).

68508224

Is withdrawing foreign currency abroad still free (assuming no atm charge) with the regular n26 debit card or do you need n26 black for that now?

Zagato

68508224 wrote: »

Is withdrawing foreign currency abroad still free (assuming no atm charge) with the regular n26 debit card or do you need n26 black for that now?

Need an N26 Black for that now

Yggr of Asgard

There are now reports surfacing that leading IT expert Vincent Haupert has found several severe vulnerabilities in N26 banking app:

Vincent Haupert:

We have encountered severe vulnerabilities at the Berlin-based FinTech N26, which offers their smartphone-only bank account to many countries throughout Europe. Entirely independent of the used device, we were not only able to reveal N26 customers and to manipulate transactions in real-time but also to completely take over a victim’s bank account.

He is going to reveal these during the Chaos Computer Club event later this month, more info here:
https://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/content/n26

All vulnerabilities have been disclosed responsibly to N26 on September 25, 2016 so one would hope that they are all fixed.

However I would suggest to monitor the above page just in case.

Bob24

You would indeed hope they have fixed those already otherwise it is instant bankruptcy for them when they get published.

But nonetheless this is a bit worrying for someone who has or is planning to lodge large amounts of money with them (it probably isnt much the case with current accounts, but with saving account one the way they need to provide customers with full confidence that someone won't take control of their account and transfer all their savings). Also since their don't rely on any physical network and have very limited staff for customer service, another concern would be that if a vulnerability is found in their app/website and they need to temporarily shut it down, they have no alternative banking option to offer to their customers.

fbradyirl

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

.... I would suggest to monitor the above page just in case.

Read to the bottom again. Looks like the security flaws have been fixed.

As of December 13, to the best of our knowledge, all vulnerabilities that we have reported to N26 are closed.

fritzelly

fbradyirl wrote: »

Read to the bottom again. Looks like the security flaws have been fixed.

That must have been in the past few hours

Zagato

There was an update today

Bob24

fritzelly wrote: »

fbradyirl wrote: »

Read to the bottom again. Looks like the security flaws have been fixed.

That must have been in the past few hours

Yes I can confirm it wasn't there earlier, I guess the academics might have received some criticism and felt the need to clarify they were not intending to risk compromising anyone's bank account.

Having said that this is still a warning shot for N26. Even for a cool technology startup, when you deal with people's finance security should always be the top priority over user experience and innovative features (even though it might slow down the pace of innovation and sometimes feel frustrating).

fritzelly

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes I can confirm it wasn't there earlier, I guess the academics might have received some criticism and felt the need to clarify they were not intending to risk compromising anyone's bank account.

Having said that this is still a warning shot for N26. Even for a cool technology startup, when you deal with people's finance security should always be the top priority over user experience and innovative features (even though it might slow down the pace of innovation and sometimes feel frustrating).

How many banks have been hacked? It's not just an N26 thing.

Is there a way within the app to transfer money from an N26 account to another N26 account or is it purely down to a SEPA transfer - was sure I read something somewhere about inter bank transfers

Savman

fritzelly wrote: »

How many banks have been hacked? It's not just an N26 thing.

Is there a way within the app to transfer money from an N26 account to another N26 account or is it purely down to a SEPA transfer - was sure I read something somewhere about inter bank transfers

Select "Moneybeam" it's instant to other N26 accounts. Quite nifty. :cool:

fritzelly

Savman wrote: »

Select "Moneybeam" it's instant to other N26 accounts. Quite nifty. :cool:

Perfect thanks, worked great and was pretty much instant
Was expecting an email to kinda confirm it or something but obviously they check against their own registered emails, definitely :cool:

Tried looking on the browser version of the account but couldn't see a Moneybeam option unless its hidden under some menu somewhere

Bob24

fritzelly wrote: »

How many banks have been hacked? It's not just an N26 thing.

Traditional Irish (or other) banks seem to have simpler apps with stronger authentication methods and more limitations what you can do with them, making them more difficult to use as a conduit for a hack.

Even just loging-in to a Microsoft, Google, or Apple account seems safer than N26 as they all support 2-steps authentication with a predefined device.

fritzelly

Bob24 wrote: »

Traditional Irish (or other) banks seem to have simpler apps with stronger authentication methods and more limitations what you can do with them, making them more difficult to use as a conduit for a hack.

Even just loging-in to a Microsoft, Google, or Apple account seems safer than N26 as they all support 2-steps authentication with a predefined device.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-banks-admit-hackers-took-money-from-their-customers-29753689.html
http://www.goldcore.com/uk/gold-blog/bank-hackers-unfettered-access-customer-accounts/

MS, Google et al don't require 2 step authentication but they are not even banks

Just because Irish banks don't offer the same services doesn't make them better because you can't do the same type of things - they are just less susceptible to this type of hacking

I would still be confident in N26 under all the guarantees that banks have to offer against fraud

Dardania

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Suddenly I'm interested in this account after seeing OPs post from last year. I'm trying to watch a particular tv show that's not available on Netflix in Europe, but is available on German Apple iTunes Store (one of the few Eurozone countries to be supported for Apple TV shows)

Is the card number given with the account a German number? Or is it Irish?

Wirecard just launched their new virtual mycard2go product (it used to be plastic only up to now) which gives you a virtual visa card which might be helpful for your specific problem.

http://www.mycard2go.com/

Thanks for the advice - in the end, I signed up for a Revolut account last night, and am accessing UK iTunes. Seems the prices in the UK store are quite cheaper than the German one...
Pretty excited about my first step using Fintech!

Bob24

fritzelly wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-banks-admit-hackers-took-money-from-their-customers-29753689.html

This is very different from what we are discussing here. Credit card details stored by a third party entity being stolen is nothing like the bank's own banking app getting hacked (in the case of stollen CC numbers the bank's duty is to detect the dodgy transaction ASAP and block them, but they hold no responsibility for the breach).

Any link showing an Irish bank's actual banking system was hacked similarly to the N26 case whereby the hacker was able to use the system to initiate money transfer without the accountholder's approval? (genuine question, it might be the case)

fritzelly wrote: »

MS, Google et al don't require 2 step authentication but they are not even banks

As I said, they support the service if you want it which makes hacking into an account much more difficult. That's my point: many customers will like to think their savings are at least as safe as their digital music, calendar, or emails.

fritzelly wrote: »

Just because Irish banks don't offer the same services doesn't make them better because you can't do the same type of things - they are just less susceptible to this type of hacking

Yes this is exactly what I was saying. If you offer less features (and restrict transaction amounts more) through the app; there are less things which can be done in the event of a hack, and also a hack is less likely as anyone in IT will know that the more complex an application becomes and the more difficult and expensive it gets to ensure its code is perfectly safe and bug free (to be clear, I am not saying that because it is more difficult to fully safely implement more features banks shouldn't do it, but they should only do see if they are readay to commit there necessary ressoruce to make security their number 1 priority and accept that it will drastically slow down their development process, which I hope N26 is doing but might sometime conflict with the spirit if a technology start-up which wants to roll-out new services and better user experience as fast as possible).

fritzelly wrote: »

I would still be confident in N26 under all the guarantees that banks have to offer against fraud

I hope so as well, but they are a very new entity with an already stained track record. I will keep using them but will probably think twice before lodging large amounts if they launch saving accounts.

Yggr of Asgard

fbradyirl wrote: »

Read to the bottom again. Looks like the security flaws have been fixed.

As others pointed out, when I posted this link this statement was not on there, which I why I recommended to check the page for updates.

Yggr of Asgard

fritzelly wrote: »

MS, Google et al don't require 2 step authentication but they are not even banks

I would argue that a hacker getting access to your digital identity of Microsoft / Google might cause you more damage than them getting access to your bank account.

Which is why Microsoft / Google etc. all offer 2 step authentication, yes it's not a requirement for most consumers yet, but it's offered and if you use those regularly you really should set it up.

Yggr of Asgard

And by pure co-incidence N26 just published an update of their software with minor fixed and enhancements....

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

And by pure co-incidence N26 just published an update of their software with minor fixed and enhancements....

Cheers, updated! I like their changelog - "Many small improvements!" ;-)

jester77

Very surprising that this was not picked up during a security audit. At least it has been dealt with quickly.

Yggr of Asgard

jester77 wrote: »

Very surprising that this was not picked up during a security audit. At least it has been dealt with quickly.

I would not call nearly 3 month quickly.

Also you assume they actually have a compliance team that knows what they are doing, however the Irish Stamp Duty disaster surely shows that they don't.

But now that they are using N26 bank, they will feel the stronger regulation from the Bundesbank and that will make them pay more attention because they risk their own bank license.

jester77

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I would not call nearly 3 month quickly.

Also you assume they actually have a compliance team that knows what they are doing, however the Irish Stamp Duty disaster surely shows that they don't.

But now that they are using N26 bank, they will feel the stronger regulation from the Bundesbank and that will make them pay more attention because they risk their own bank license.

Their compliance team may not be the best, but surely part of getting their banking licence would be a security audit by someone like KPMG. We have to do that regularly where I work as we deal with sensitive user data.

Yggr of Asgard

jester77 wrote: »

Their compliance team may not be the best, but surely part of getting their banking licence would be a security audit by someone like KPMG. We have to do that regularly where I work as we deal with sensitive user data.

In theory but remember that N26 GmbH (who operates the App) is not regulated as bank, they are just the front end to Wirecard or N26 Bank. So how much of the audit was done on the Application (as operated by N26 GmbH) is questionable.

In any case, there are now some complaints about the security questions with the BaFin (the German regulator) and once the CCC has published we are going to see how big of a deal it was.